Discussion:
[OT] Bizarre News Item
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Quadibloc
2018-10-26 06:38:12 UTC
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https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438

He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.

How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-10-26 16:03:42 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
I know you will post anything here, Quaddie, but do you really
want to start a gun control flame thread, from outside the US,
about a crime in Kentucky?

Note the story mentions criminal charges, but not convictions.
A felony conviction for assaulting an officer OR an assessment
that he was mentally ill is what I would expect, either of
which would prevent him from obtaining a weapon through a shop
uaing instant check, if the records were up-to-date.

Misdemeanor "domestic violence" convictions can disqualify you from
losing the right to own a gun, under Federal law, as interpreted
by the courts. See:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-someone-possess-gun-after-criminal-conviction.html

He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.

There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.

Kevin R
Scott Lurndal
2018-10-26 16:18:14 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
I know you will post anything here, Quaddie, but do you really
want to start a gun control flame thread, from outside the US,
about a crime in Kentucky?
And you continue it, rather than simply ignore it.
Quadibloc
2018-10-26 18:15:42 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
from outside the US,
about a crime in Kentucky?
It's a violent crime by a *white* man against a *black* victim.

Like a violent crime by a Hindu against a Muslim, or a Muslim against a Jew, or
a Welshman against a Japanese tourist... it is of course of global concern.

Basically, it seems to me that we may need to modify the legal system on the
basis that we are absolutely *terrified* of the possibility that if a member of
group X commits a crime against members of group Y, there might be a perception
that the legal system is going easy on the accused because the victim was "only"
from group Y.

So while the normal legal system is still used to determine basic guilt - yes,
the accused actually fired the fatal shot - decisions as to the severity of the
act, whether diminished responsibility should be considered, and so on, would be
made entirely within the victim group, without input from the group to which the
accused belongs.

Of course, it's particularly important to impose such a system on societies
where the majority hasn't been exerting itself to be fair to minority groups
within it; the United States is much less a concern in this regard, even if it
isn't perfect.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-26 18:28:20 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
from outside the US,
about a crime in Kentucky?
It's a violent crime by a *white* man against a *black* victim.
And? It's still an attempt to start a gun control flame thread by
someone whose business US gun laws are not.
Post by Quadibloc
Like a violent crime by a Hindu against a Muslim, or a Muslim
against a Jew, or a Welshman against a Japanese tourist... it is
of course of global concern.
Only in the minds of people whose business US gun laws are not.
Post by Quadibloc
Basically, it seems to me that we may need to modify the legal
system on the basis
of US laws are none of your Canucking business, furriner.
Post by Quadibloc
that we are absolutely *terrified* of the
possibility that if a member of group X commits a crime against
members of group Y, there might be a perception that the legal
system is going easy on the accused because the victim was
"only" from group Y.
So while the normal legal system is still used to determine
basic guilt - yes, the accused actually fired the fatal shot -
decisions as to the severity of the act, whether diminished
responsibility should be considered, and so on, would be made
entirely within the victim group, without input from the group
to which the accused belongs.
That is called "fascism," and it doesn't work very well. As normal
people know.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
nuny@bid.nes
2018-11-04 04:33:44 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
from outside the US,
about a crime in Kentucky?
It's a violent crime by a *white* man against a *black* victim.
So fucking what, white boy? Do you not understand that White Guilt is not immediately infectious, but requires months if not years of continuous exposure before transmission (typically in an academic setting)?
Post by Quadibloc
Like a violent crime by a Hindu against a Muslim, or a Muslim against
a Jew, or a Welshman against a Japanese tourist... it is of course of
global concern.
No, it is not, you globalist flake. There are such things as local laws enacted by sovereign nations.
Post by Quadibloc
Basically, it seems to me that we
Who's "we", Stalin-boy?
Post by Quadibloc
may need to modify the legal system
*Which* legal system? Do you actually believe that any sovereign nation is going to rewrite its laws to make you and Big Brother happy?

Suppose they decline? What do you propose to do about that? Does it involve "assault weapons"?
Post by Quadibloc
on the basis that we are absolutely *terrified*
You mean *you* are absolutely terrified, all the time, of everything, and want Big Brother to change your wet panties for you.
Post by Quadibloc
of the possibility that if a member of group X commits a crime against
members of group Y, there might be a perception that the legal system
is going easy on the accused because the victim was "only" from group Y.
Shove your "perceptions". Try statistics.
Post by Quadibloc
So while the normal legal system is still used to determine basic guilt
- yes, the accused actually fired the fatal shot - decisions as to the
severity of the act,
You mean, more jail time for a white man who shoots a black man than for a black man who shoots a white man?

Fuck. You. And. Your. Racism.
Post by Quadibloc
whether diminished responsibility should be considered, and so on,
would be made entirely within the victim group, without input from
the group to which the accused belongs.
Fuck. You. And. Your. Tribalism.
Post by Quadibloc
Of course, it's particularly important to impose such a system on societies
where the majority hasn't been exerting itself to be fair to minority groups
within it; the United States is much less a concern in this regard, even if it
isn't perfect.
John Savard
Just as soon as you present yourself to the nearest First Nations Tribal Council for your White Guilt flagellation. Oh, and don't forget to bring the deeds to any property you "own" to be given back to them.

You typical Liberal pissant HYPOCRITE.


Mark L. Fergerson

Quadibloc
2018-10-26 18:30:09 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun shows*, where,
apparently, some background check requirements are relaxed. Surely that loophole
could be closed without making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background
check in advance, and be given a special ID card.

Also: a gun has gone missing?

Amend the Fourth Amendment so it doesn't apply in such cases: treat it like a
thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.

So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.

Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And any other illegal
guns encountered are also removed from circulation, and having found them is
fully admissible in court.

After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out there.

Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.

Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical, and a possible
threat to liberty - since if you have a perfect system for eliminating illegal
guns, then you could also change the laws which stipulate when guns are legal,
thereby removing guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.

Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap singers being charged
with illegal gun possession... who aren't a threat to the public for being
likely to commit crimes with those guns, but who do live in neighborhoods so
violent that a gun for self-defence is a necessity.

Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the violent people in
those neighborhoods* who are a threat to everyone, but overly broad laws are
drafted for that purpose.

One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment would be to adopt
the principle that the place for anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm is
behind bars. Excluding, of course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm
simply by reason of age.

John Savard
Kevrob
2018-10-26 19:20:33 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Please read for comprehension.

Where do you see evidence of his CONVICTION.

It was long the custom, sometimes still honored, in some circumstances,
here in the US, to have a trial, a conviction, THEN a sentence, in
that order.

Please stop telling the US to amend our constitution. You have no
such standing to make those recommendations.

Shall I tell you to adopt a Triple E Senate, ditch the Queen,
and loosen your press restrictions? Canuckleheads might tell
me to "take off," as Bob & Doug used to say.

Kevin R
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-26 20:11:23 UTC
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On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 2:30:12 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got
into trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone
has a conviction disqualifying that person for firearms
ownership is a careful premises search.
Please read for comprehension.
Heh. This is Quaddie we're talking about, here.
Where do you see evidence of his CONVICTION.
It was long the custom, sometimes still honored, in some
circumstances, here in the US, to have a trial, a conviction,
THEN a sentence, in that order.
Lefties are doing their damnedest to change that right now.
Please stop telling the US to amend our constitution. You have
no such standing to make those recommendations.
And he's a fucking loon, domesticated by his government to be a good
little sheeple.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-26 20:09:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone
has a conviction disqualifying that person for firearms
ownership is a careful premises search.
One might expect that, if one had no understanding of
constitutional law, and no understanding that not everyone keeps
all their possessions in the same place.
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun
shows*, where, apparently, some background check requirements
are relaxed. Surely that loophole could be closed without making
gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background check in advance,
and be given a special ID card.
There are also private sales, which are utterly impossible to
regulate. Any more pointless ideas?
Post by Quadibloc
Also: a gun has gone missing?
Good luck with that, Canuck.
Post by Quadibloc
treat it like a thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
If you want to look really, really *stupid*.
Post by Quadibloc
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United
States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found.
Until all the cops are dead from law-abiding citizens who know
their rights excercising them.
Post by Quadibloc
And
any other illegal guns encountered are also removed from
circulation, and having found them is fully admissible in court.
And suddenly, anyone who is politically inconvenient will have an
illegal weapon in their house, whether they have one or not, eh?

How . . . liberal, which is to say, fascist.

This is why foreigners who have been domesticated into sheeply
shouldn't spout off about US laws.
Post by Quadibloc
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out
there.
After a few fascist confiscations, there would *be* no cops willing
to wipe their ass with the constitution.

Not to mention, of course, that *any* competent machinist can
manufacture a working firearm (and automatic weapons aren't much
more complicated) pretty quickly, and if you ban machine tools, you
are literally hutning for dinner with a sharp stick (or being
dinner because someone else has a sharper stick).

Moron.
Post by Quadibloc
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
On your part, yes. That is an effect of your low intelligence.
Post by Quadibloc
Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical,
and a possible threat to liberty -
And rightly so.
Post by Quadibloc
since if you have a perfect
system for eliminating illegal guns, then you could also change
the laws which stipulate when guns are legal, thereby removing
guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.
Since guns are used between 2 and 10 times as often for legitimate
self defense as to commit crimes, any attempt to confiscate guns is
an attempt to disarm victims and make violent criminals safer.

Which is apparently the goal of the left, since they cannot
possibly be unaware of this.
Post by Quadibloc
Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap
singers being charged with illegal gun possession... who aren't
a threat to the public for being likely to commit crimes with
those guns, but who do live in neighborhoods so violent that a
gun for self-defence is a necessity.
If they're being cahrged with illegal gun possession, they have
almost certainly been convicted of a felony already. You have an
insane, delusional definition of "no threat to the public."

This will suprise no one.
Post by Quadibloc
Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the
violent people in those neighborhoods* who are a threat to
everyone, but overly broad laws are drafted for that purpose.
One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment
would be to adopt the principle that the place for anyone who
can't be trusted with a firearm is behind bars. Excluding, of
course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm simply by
reason of age.
As long as I, and *only* I, get to decide who can and can't be
trusted with a gun, sure. The moment anyone else can, it's a
hopelessly fascist tyranny, and whoeveri s behind it should be put
to death. And I am *not* kidding.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-26 21:05:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun shows*, where,
apparently, some background check requirements are relaxed. Surely that loophole
could be closed without making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background
check in advance, and be given a special ID card.
Also: a gun has gone missing?
Amend the Fourth Amendment so it doesn't apply in such cases: treat it like a
thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And any other illegal
guns encountered are also removed from circulation, and having found them is
fully admissible in court.
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out there.
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical, and a possible
threat to liberty - since if you have a perfect system for eliminating illegal
guns, then you could also change the laws which stipulate when guns are legal,
thereby removing guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.
Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap singers being charged
with illegal gun possession... who aren't a threat to the public for being
likely to commit crimes with those guns, but who do live in neighborhoods so
violent that a gun for self-defence is a necessity.
Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the violent people in
those neighborhoods* who are a threat to everyone, but overly broad laws are
drafted for that purpose.
One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment would be to adopt
the principle that the place for anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm is
behind bars. Excluding, of course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm
simply by reason of age.
John Savard
Hah ! We had a county sheriff get several guns stolen out of his
cruiser here with a full automatic machine gun.

You just want to ban all guns. Good luck with that here in the USA
where we have somewhere around 400+ million guns for a populace of 325
million.

Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm

Lynn
Titus G
2018-10-26 23:02:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun shows*, where,
apparently, some background check requirements are relaxed. Surely that loophole
could be closed without making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background
check in advance, and be given a special ID card.
Also: a gun has gone missing?
Amend the Fourth Amendment so it doesn't apply in such cases: treat it like a
thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And any other illegal
guns encountered are also removed from circulation, and having found them is
fully admissible in court.
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out there.
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical, and a possible
threat to liberty - since if you have a perfect system for eliminating illegal
guns, then you could also change the laws which stipulate when guns are legal,
thereby removing guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.
Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap singers being charged
with illegal gun possession... who aren't a threat to the public for being
likely to commit crimes with those guns, but who do live in
neighborhoods so
violent that a gun for self-defence is a necessity.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Palestinians should
be allowed nuclear weapons. I thought you were a Zionist Vatist but now
I am not so sure. Are you anti spermitic?
Post by Quadibloc
Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the violent people in
those neighborhoods* who are a threat to everyone, but overly broad laws are
drafted for that purpose.
One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment would be to adopt
the principle that the place for anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm is
behind bars. Excluding, of course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm
simply by reason of age.
John Savard
Hah !  We had a county sheriff get several guns stolen out of his
cruiser here with a full automatic machine gun.
You just want to ban all guns.
Brilliant idea. And using Quadiblockhead's Zero Tolerance Philosophy of
Pragmatic Perverse Perserverance, this could be extended to many other
troubling facets of society eventually including banning drugs and
alcohol which will be far easier to detect than guns. Wow! But what
would happen if a loony somehow achieved supreme global power and banned
idiots from posting on rasfw? Would we be more or less confused? How
many serious SF reviews can you read on Goodreads before seeking a car
crash as distraction?

  Good luck with that here in the USA
where we have somewhere around 400+ million guns for a populace of 325
million. snip
I wonder if you and Fourbricks have conflicting opinions on the
quantitative effects of all those little gunpowder explosions has on
Climate Change? Does a Texan cow, fearful of approaching hurricanes with
one eye on the ramp to the gooseneck trailer, produce more methane when
frightened by a gun discharge, than otherwise?
Robert Carnegie
2018-10-27 16:07:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun shows*, where,
apparently, some background check requirements are relaxed. Surely that loophole
could be closed without making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background
check in advance, and be given a special ID card.
Also: a gun has gone missing?
Amend the Fourth Amendment so it doesn't apply in such cases: treat it like a
thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And any other illegal
guns encountered are also removed from circulation, and having found them is
fully admissible in court.
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out there.
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical, and a possible
threat to liberty - since if you have a perfect system for eliminating illegal
guns, then you could also change the laws which stipulate when guns are legal,
thereby removing guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.
Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap singers being charged
with illegal gun possession... who aren't a threat to the public for being
likely to commit crimes with those guns, but who do live in neighborhoods so
violent that a gun for self-defence is a necessity.
Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the violent people in
those neighborhoods* who are a threat to everyone, but overly broad laws are
drafted for that purpose.
One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment would be to adopt
the principle that the place for anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm is
behind bars. Excluding, of course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm
simply by reason of age.
John Savard
Hah ! We had a county sheriff get several guns stolen out of his
cruiser here with a full automatic machine gun.
You just want to ban all guns. Good luck with that here in the USA
where we have somewhere around 400+ million guns for a populace of 325
million.
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Lynn
That accounts for the gang of Fish-Men reported to be carrying
out carjackings in the neighbourhood. Oh, and kayakjackings.
David DeLaney
2018-10-29 11:19:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?

Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Kevrob
2018-10-29 15:11:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Lynn McGuire
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Different calibers for different fish? :)

Kevin R
Titus G
2018-10-29 19:09:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Lynn McGuire
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Different calibers for different fish? :)
Kevin R
Or strong probability of EMP event followed my marauding invaders?
benj
2018-11-04 00:49:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Lynn McGuire
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Different calibers for different fish? :)
Kevin R
As Rock Hudson implied in "Something of Value", you just never know what
kind of animal you'll be hunting...
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-29 19:31:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Lynn McGuire
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore. I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators. And man.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-29 19:38:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore.  I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
     http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators.  And man.
Lynn
BTW, it was tough getting that BAR with the three foot barrel and the
200 round drum on the kayak. But, I did it ! Of course, firing it down
river did flip the kayak over.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-10-30 01:52:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:38:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David DeLaney
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore.  I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
     http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators.  And man.
Lynn
BTW, it was tough getting that BAR with the three foot barrel and the
200 round drum on the kayak. But, I did it ! Of course, firing it down
river did flip the kayak over.
Geez, man, you're _doing_ it wrong. You want to line things up so it
_propels_ the kayak . . .
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-30 02:26:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:38:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David DeLaney
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore.  I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
     http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators.  And man.
Lynn
BTW, it was tough getting that BAR with the three foot barrel and the
200 round drum on the kayak. But, I did it ! Of course, firing it down
river did flip the kayak over.
Geez, man, you're _doing_ it wrong. You want to line things up so it
_propels_ the kayak . . .
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Now you tell me !

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2018-10-30 03:36:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:38:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David DeLaney
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore.  I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
     http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators.  And man.
Lynn
BTW, it was tough getting that BAR with the three foot barrel and the
200 round drum on the kayak. But, I did it ! Of course, firing it down
river did flip the kayak over.
Geez, man, you're _doing_ it wrong. You want to line things up so it
_propels_ the kayak . . .
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Now you tell me !
Lynn
I don't think it can be done. You can't have your kayak and hit it.

[1]
<https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2458943.You_can_t_have_your_kayak_and_heat_it>
J. Clarke
2018-10-31 03:49:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:36:24 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:38:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David DeLaney
Of course, I don't have any guns anymore.  I lost all of mine when I was
kayaking down the Brazos River.
     http://www.lifeonthebrazosriver.com/RattleSnakeBaitsBass.htm
Just curious, knowing a little bit about the "from my cold dead hands"
mentality - why did you have ALL of your guns with you in the kayak?
Dave, are there no workhouses? no orphanages? no wait, wrong rant
Because snakes and gators.  And man.
Lynn
BTW, it was tough getting that BAR with the three foot barrel and the
200 round drum on the kayak. But, I did it ! Of course, firing it down
river did flip the kayak over.
Geez, man, you're _doing_ it wrong. You want to line things up so it
_propels_ the kayak . . .
Post by Lynn McGuire
Lynn
Now you tell me !
Lynn
I don't think it can be done. You can't have your kayak and hit it.

Post by Robert Carnegie
[1]
<https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2458943.You_can_t_have_your_kayak_and_heat_it>
Joe Pfeiffer
2018-10-26 22:43:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun shows*, where,
apparently, some background check requirements are relaxed. Surely that loophole
could be closed without making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background
check in advance, and be given a special ID card.
No. The same laws apply at the show as outside. If you buy from a
dealer, federal law requires the check. If you buy from a non-dealer
(and you aren't in a crazy state) no need for the check (all the same,
if you have any reason to suspect the person you're selling to can't
legally own a gun, it's illegal under federal law to sell to him).
Post by Quadibloc
Also: a gun has gone missing?
Amend the Fourth Amendment so it doesn't apply in such cases: treat it like a
thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And any other illegal
guns encountered are also removed from circulation, and having found them is
fully admissible in court.
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out there.
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
You're really insane, aren't you?
Post by Quadibloc
Still, it must be admitted that *this* would be seen as radical, and a possible
threat to liberty - since if you have a perfect system for eliminating illegal
guns, then you could also change the laws which stipulate when guns are legal,
thereby removing guns that protect honest citizens, and protect against tyranny,
not just guns that lead to crime.
Already, every now and then, one sees news items about rap singers being charged
with illegal gun possession... who aren't a threat to the public for being
likely to commit crimes with those guns, but who do live in neighborhoods so
violent that a gun for self-defence is a necessity.
Naturally, we want it to be easy to take guns away from *the violent people in
those neighborhoods* who are a threat to everyone, but overly broad laws are
drafted for that purpose.
One way to reconcile public safety with the Second Amendment would be to adopt
the principle that the place for anyone who can't be trusted with a firearm is
behind bars. Excluding, of course, people who can't be trusted with a firearm
simply by reason of age.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-26 23:02:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got
into trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone
has a conviction disqualifying that person for firearms
ownership is a careful premises search.
Post by Kevrob
There are always "illegal" sales, and thefts.
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun
shows*, where, apparently, some background check requirements
are relaxed. Surely that loophole could be closed without
making gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background check in
advance, and be given a special ID card.
No. The same laws apply at the show as outside. If you buy
from a dealer, federal law requires the check. If you buy from
a non-dealer (and you aren't in a crazy state) no need for the
check (all the same, if you have any reason to suspect the
person you're selling to can't legally own a gun, it's illegal
under federal law to sell to him).
Post by Quadibloc
Also: a gun has gone missing?
treat it like a thermonuclear warhead has gone missing.
So, someone steals a legally-owned gun somewhere in the United States.
Then the house-to-house searches start until it is found. And
any other illegal guns encountered are also removed from
circulation, and having found them is fully admissible in
court.
After a few gun thefts, there would *be* no illegal guns out
there.
Somehow, there is just a lack of imagination.
You're really insane, aren't you?
And stupid. Don't forget stupid.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Mike Van Pelt
2018-10-26 23:18:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Well, while crime can hardly be eliminated, there are also *gun
shows*, where, apparently, some background check requirements
are relaxed. Surely that loophole could be closed without making
gun shows impossible: i.e. get your background check in advance,
and be given a special ID card.
The so-called "gun show loophole" is simply that private sales
between individuals who are not gun dealers are not subject to
the rules for gun dealers. Seeing as it's arguably unreasonable
to require some random guy who just wants to sell his old
shotgun to have to get an InstantCheck<tm> account and fill
out reams of documentation, keep it on file for years, etc., etc.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
a425couple
2018-10-27 15:38:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
He could have had the weapon for a long time before he got into
trouble with the law, of course.
One of the things that one would expect to happen after someone has a conviction
disqualifying that person for firearms ownership is a careful premises search.
Whoa, Whoa! John / Quadibloc, you are way over presumptive
of what our criminal justice system and law enforcement
systems can, or even should do.

By the time a conviction in done (generally months after the situation)
(generally in a downtown courthouse far removed from many of the
relevant objects) there is NO process for doing the searchs
you think should have been done.
David Johnston
2018-10-26 20:05:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
You ask that like it's hard.
J. Clarke
2018-10-27 01:43:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:38:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
Very simple, due to prior abuses of the law for the purpose of
discriminating against minorities, the courts have ruled that to deny
someone firearms ownership, he must have either actually been
convicted of a crime or found by the _courts_ to be mentally
defective. Being _arrested_ doesn't do it. Neither does some shrink
saying it. The shrink has to convince a court.
a425couple
2018-10-27 15:21:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
John Savard
As you note, this is OT Off Topic here. Very.

Meanwhile, be aware, there is a very active and busy
newsgroup that does discuss this topic.
Please check out:
talk.politics.guns

Have fun.
benj
2018-10-27 21:33:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
John Savard
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands these
unofficial violent acts are going to persist.

Grocery store should have put up "Gun free Zone" signs. That would have
stopped him.
Lynn McGuire
2018-10-29 19:31:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by benj
Post by Quadibloc
https://www.cp24.com/world/kentucky-suspect-in-fatal-grocery-store-shooting-tried-to-access-black-church-1.4150438
He had previous arrests for violent acts, and a history of mental illness and
unpredictable violent behavior.
How could he possibly have gained access to firearms?
John Savard
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands these
unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Grocery store should have put up "Gun free Zone" signs. That would have
stopped him.
+1

Lynn
Mike Van Pelt
2018-10-29 22:17:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands these
unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by government hands.

Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards are
a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart and
imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the willies.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-29 22:32:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands
these unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by
government hands.
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards
are a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart
and imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the
willies.
You've never heard of "lawyers and politicians"?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Mike Van Pelt
2018-10-29 23:04:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands
these unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by
government hands.
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards
are a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart
and imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the
willies.
You've never heard of "lawyers and politicians"?
Well, them too. (But I did specify "smart and imaginative".)
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-10-29 23:27:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands
these unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by
government hands.
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards
are a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart
and imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the
willies.
You've never heard of "lawyers and politicians"?
Well, them too. (But I did specify "smart and imaginative".)
One must be pretty fucking smart to succeed in cuthroat profession
like politics. It's possible to be successful as a lawyer without
being especially smart, but only moderately so. Litigators need a
higher degree of intelligence.

Just because you don't like what they *do* with their intelligence
doesn't mean they don't have it.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2018-10-30 00:35:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards
are a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart
and imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the
willies.
You've never heard of "lawyers and politicians"?
Well, them too. (But I did specify "smart and imaginative".)
For "smart and imaginative" lawyers and politicians bent on mass terror, the
regimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao come to mind.

Hence, what lawyers and politicians do in democratic states - a system of
organization required to have the powers of taxation and conscription to prevent
nations led by the likes of Hitler or Stalin taking over the world's free
countries - is something I require as a necessary evil. Libertarians and
anarcho-capitalists, of course, disagree.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-10-30 01:54:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:35:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards
are a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart
and imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the
willies.
You've never heard of "lawyers and politicians"?
Well, them too. (But I did specify "smart and imaginative".)
For "smart and imaginative" lawyers and politicians bent on mass terror, the
regimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao come to mind.
Imaginative maybe, smart, not so much. Hitler seemed to be the only
person in Germany who didn't know that he was going to lose the war.
Post by Quadibloc
Hence, what lawyers and politicians do in democratic states - a system of
organization required to have the powers of taxation and conscription to prevent
nations led by the likes of Hitler or Stalin taking over the world's free
countries - is something I require as a necessary evil. Libertarians and
anarcho-capitalists, of course, disagree.
John Savard
J. Clarke
2018-10-30 01:53:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands these
unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by government hands.
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards are
a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart and
imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the willies.
Three digits--911.
Joe Pfeiffer
2018-10-30 02:15:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by benj
Hey, so long as ONE firearm remains in non-government hands these
unofficial violent acts are going to persist.
Not counting, of course, the violent acts committed by government hands.
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards are
a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart and
imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the willies.
We see that on a regular basis in the middle east, with not-infrequent
bombings with hundreds of casualties.
Quadibloc
2018-10-31 10:07:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Seriously, though, I'm glad that most of these vicious bastards are
a stupid and unimaginative lot. Thinking about what a smart and
imaginative person bent on mass terror could do gives me the willies.
We see that on a regular basis in the middle east, with not-infrequent
bombings with hundreds of casualties.
I suspect it's the possibility of "hundreds" becoming "hundreds of thousands"
that's giving him the willies.

John Savard
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