Discussion:
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
Add Reply
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-19 19:02:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/

A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.

Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.

My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)

Lynn
Kevrob
2020-05-19 20:09:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
The weirdness is part of LoL's charm.

Fun Fact: the CIA crew depicted in the film "Argo" used
pre-production artwork by Jack Kirby that was meant for
a never-filmed adaptation of LoL. The fake production
company that was the agents' cover just retitled "Lord
of Light" as "Argo," and changed the author's name.

First "King" Kirby beat Hitler, then he thwarted the
ayatollahs. What a guy!

https://www.wired.com/2007/04/feat-cia/

Kevin R
Kevrob
2020-05-19 20:22:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
The weirdness is part of LoL's charm.
Fun Fact: the CIA crew depicted in the film "Argo" used
pre-production artwork by Jack Kirby that was meant for
a never-filmed adaptation of LoL. The fake production
company that was the agents' cover just retitled "Lord
of Light" as "Argo," and changed the author's name.
First "King" Kirby beat Hitler, then he thwarted the
ayatollahs. What a guy!
https://www.wired.com/2007/04/feat-cia/
Kevin R
Additional:

Concept art and more, @

https://www.lordoflight.com/

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-19 22:24:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
The weirdness is part of LoL's charm.
Fun Fact: the CIA crew depicted in the film "Argo" used
pre-production artwork by Jack Kirby that was meant for
a never-filmed adaptation of LoL. The fake production
company that was the agents' cover just retitled "Lord
of Light" as "Argo," and changed the author's name.
First "King" Kirby beat Hitler, then he thwarted the
ayatollahs. What a guy!
https://www.wired.com/2007/04/feat-cia/
Kevin R
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.

Lynn
David Duffy
2020-05-20 00:26:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...

As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.

Cheers, David Duffy.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-20 02:38:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.

Email Dan Livingston and tell him that Second Foundation belongs in his
list. Or put a comment on his list comments.
https://best-sci-fi-books.com/13-best-science-fantasy-books/

Lynn
David Johnston
2020-05-20 03:29:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
Kevrob
2020-05-20 04:06:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
I could say much of that about "Dune."

Kevin R
David Johnston
2020-05-20 04:23:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
I could say much of that about "Dune."
No comic book superpowers and the inspiration is history, not mythology.
Kevrob
2020-05-20 05:19:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
I could say much of that about "Dune."
No comic book superpowers and the inspiration is history, not mythology.
Mentats? Paul Atreides has no mental superpowers, nor do the Bene
Gesserit? The Orange Catholic Bible and Fremen legends aren't mythology?

The powers may be more "Mandrake the Magician" or "Saturn Girl,"
and less "two mutants fighting each other."*

* Will Eisner quoted @

https://medium.com/fan-fare/stan-lees-hot-take-on-the-scorsese-mcu-debate-aec8acd23781

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2020-05-20 10:42:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
I could say much of that about "Dune."
No comic book superpowers and the inspiration is history, not mythology.
Mentats? Paul Atreides has no mental superpowers, nor do the Bene
Gesserit? The Orange Catholic Bible and Fremen legends aren't mythology?
We aren't clear on what Mentats can do. It is claimed that they can
outperform electronic computers but we don't ever actually see that
happening--that might be a myth internal to the story.

We don't see any evidence of the Bene Gesserit having any
extraordinary mental powers other than the "racial memory" that they
get after taking the Reverend Mother drugs.

As for mythology, no, the Orange Catholic Bible wouldn't be
"mythology", it would be a construct produced in our future for some
purpose or other. We see very little of its content so we don't know
if it is "mythology", accurate history, an etiquette manual or
something else. And the "Fremen legends" aren't "mythology", they are
artifacts purposefully generated to serve a sociopolitical function by
the Bene Gesserit--did you miss the part about the Bene Gesserit
sending a Manipulator of Religions at some point in the past?
Post by Kevrob
The powers may be more "Mandrake the Magician" or "Saturn Girl,"
and less "two mutants fighting each other."*
https://medium.com/fan-fare/stan-lees-hot-take-on-the-scorsese-mcu-debate-aec8acd23781
Kevin R
David Johnston
2020-05-20 15:56:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Kevrob
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Ordinarily I like the weird.  But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting.  And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...".  You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
Oh a swing and a miss. Technology like that is in lots of science
fiction. The real issue is that it takes extensive inspiration from
mythology and comic books and there's all that sword fighting.
I could say much of that about "Dune."
No comic book superpowers and the inspiration is history, not mythology.
Mentats?
No, I mean comic book superpowers literally. Powers you'd see in a
comic book.


Paul Atreides has no mental superpowers, nor do the Bene
Post by Kevrob
Gesserit? The Orange Catholic Bible and Fremen legends aren't mythology?
"Inspired by mythology" isn't the same thing as "having mythology
internal to the work". There is no actual Orange Catholic Bible. You
are working a little too hard to be contrarian.
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-20 15:57:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
David Johnston
2020-05-20 16:11:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two didn't just
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-05-20 16:37:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David Johnston
2020-05-20 23:08:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
Paul S Person
2020-05-21 17:23:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.

Or have a much deeper understanding of the brain. As I understand it,
we aren't even sure of how memories are stored.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
David Johnston
2020-05-21 17:58:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from chapter 2 ? to
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
Post by Paul S Person
Or have a much deeper understanding of the brain. As I understand it,
we aren't even sure of how memories are stored.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-05-21 18:16:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
I don't know. That doesn't sound *completely* crazy. After all, your
brain is heavily affected by the various glands and the hormones they
produce. Start switching your endocrine system out and that's got to have
some knock-ons.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David Johnston
2020-05-21 19:02:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
I don't know. That doesn't sound *completely* crazy. After all, your
brain is heavily affected by the various glands and the hormones they
produce. Start switching your endocrine system out and that's got to have
some knock-ons.
Wouldn't really account for supposedly acquiring a love of classical
music from a heart transplant.
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-21 19:55:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second
Foundation_,
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on
_Creatures of
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a
reread, as
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
I don't know. That doesn't sound *completely* crazy. After all, your
brain is heavily affected by the various glands and the hormones they
produce. Start switching your endocrine system out and that's got to have
some knock-ons.
Wouldn't really account for supposedly acquiring a love of classical
music from a heart transplant.
I think it's in the mind of the recipient. I remember an account
from some years back when a cardiac patient who really really
needed a transplant, but there weren't any donors available, so
in desperation (or something) the surgeons implanted a mechanical
heart. It worked, it pumped blood; but the patient felt that he
had lost something vital, and kept putting his hands to his chest
as if in grief. He died after a while, which was no more than
was expected of him, but his attitude that he'd lost an
immaterial part of himself was not explained.

I wrote a fanfic once in which a character who's been undead for
several thousand years sees another character whom he'd thought
he'd never seen again, and "clasped his hands over the place
where his heart had once beaten."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-21 18:34:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
A whole new version of the placebo effect!
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2020-05-21 19:35:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
A whole new version of the placebo effect!
The only thing that would make sense to me would be some,
if not all of the old "software" being stored, like temp
files, in the nervous system, then infiltrating the new
"wetware" when the "donor body" has the replacement brain
connected to it. I don't have any reason to believe the body
and brain would act that way, though.

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-21 20:24:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:08:14 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Ordinarily I like the weird. But the huge flashback from
chapter 2 ? to
Post by Paul S Person
Post by David Johnston
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by David Duffy
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
chapter 7 ?, that was not labeled, or even hinted a flashback, was
disconcerting. And Dan Livingston got it right, the book is Science
Fantasy, I should have labeled it as such.
Why on earth is this science fantasy, but not, say, _Second Foundation_,
with _its_ strange mind powers? If you were commenting on _Creatures of
Light and Darkness_, you might have a point...
As to structure, it sound like your complaint is that chapter two
didn't just
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Duffy
start "Some years earlier...". You might enjoy it more on a reread, as
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns.
Cheers, David Duffy.
LOL is science fantasy because the gods are continually getting
themselves new human bodies using consciousness transfer.
You mean like "I Will Fear no Evil"? Do you consider that
Science Fantasy too?
That was a brain transplant.
Yes & No. There was a brain transplant, but the body was also haunted by
the previous owner.
Yeah that's a long-standing urban myth about transplants, that the
original owner's personality and memories will some stay with their
organs with associated pseudoscience justifications.
While it /seems/ unlikely, surely we would need to /do/ a brain
transplant before we could be entirely sure.
That wouldn't do the trick. Right now there are people who believe that
people who get major organ transplants take on aspects of the donor's
mentality. Just google organ transplant personality change if you want
a dose of psychoceramics.
Yeah, films like "Hands of a Piano Player" ;-)
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
A whole new version of the placebo effect!
The only thing that would make sense to me would be some,
if not all of the old "software" being stored, like temp
files, in the nervous system, then infiltrating the new
"wetware" when the "donor body" has the replacement brain
connected to it. I don't have any reason to believe the body
and brain would act that way, though.
There was the idea that human memory exists in RNA
and circulates in the blood, or can be made to do so,
and extracted... Discredited experiments with worms?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_RNA> wriggles
to the fore.
Jack Bohn
2020-05-20 09:53:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
You might enjoy it more on a reread, as 
it is just so witty, excluding certain puns. 
Now, this isn't the '40s, when getting a flat-out dirty joke in ASTOUNDING meant making reference to the original ball bearing mousetrap, the tomcat, but some of us consider a certain pun as being the whole reason the book was written!
--
-Jack
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-20 02:46:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
Zelazny has been known to do that. _Doorways in the Sand_ is a
favorite of mine, but every chapter follows the following
outline:

Begin with a situation _in medias res_. Backtrack to a while
before, explaining how the protagonist got into that situation.
Explain how the situation is resolved, and another page or so,
and ...

Rinse and repeat.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
m***@sky.com
2020-05-20 04:08:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
This is a book which definitely benefits from re-reading. I enjoyed it enough to re-read it many times, and I wasn't the only one: it was high up (I think first) the list of best books from my University's Science Fiction society in the early 80s. I am slightly surprised, though, that somebody was basing a project on it recently, because the words "cultural appropriation" come to mind.

No sequels that I know of, but at least two other Zelazny books draw heavily on mythology/religion: "Creatures of Light and Darkness" and "Eye of Cat" - which I thought were nothing like as successful.
Magewolf
2020-05-20 20:06:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
This is a book which definitely benefits from re-reading. I enjoyed it enough to re-read it many times, and I wasn't the only one: it was high up (I think first) the list of best books from my University's Science Fiction society in the early 80s. I am slightly surprised, though, that somebody was basing a project on it recently, because the words "cultural appropriation" come to mind.
No sequels that I know of, but at least two other Zelazny books draw heavily on mythology/religion: "Creatures of Light and Darkness" and "Eye of Cat" - which I thought were nothing like as successful.
"Creatures of Light and Darkness" was just an outline of a story that
could have been great if it was actually written.
Jim Hetley
2020-05-20 21:40:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.

Jim
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-20 21:47:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-20 22:55:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
     https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968.  I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea.  I had to force myself to finish the book.  It
is well written, but just weird.  And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating:  3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating:  4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably.  My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber.  Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
My favorite Fantasy book is either "Ariel" by Steven Boyett
https://www.amazon.com/Ariel-Steven-R-Boyett-ebook/dp/B00J5X5OZO/
or "Dies The Fire" by S. M. Stirling.
https://www.amazon.com/Dies-Fire-Emberverse-Book-1-ebook/dp/B0023EF9IY/

There is a pattern there.

Lynn
Wolffan
2020-05-21 09:05:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-24 17:09:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-24 19:22:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
Back in the day, Hal read through all the Webers then in print,
and read off to me all the funny bits, whereupon I decided to read
them too. I discovered that the funny bits were few and far
between, little dumplings in a vast stew of mil-sf (or, as my son
calls it, "spaceship porn"). So I quite reading them, and
eventually Hal did too.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2020-05-24 22:53:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Wolffan
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
Back in the day, Hal read through all the Webers then in print,
and read off to me all the funny bits, whereupon I decided to read
them too. I discovered that the funny bits were few and far
between, little dumplings in a vast stew of mil-sf (or, as my son
calls it, "spaceship porn"). So I quite reading them, and
eventually Hal did too.
It finally came to its inevitable end with Harrington & company
trashing the Solarian League. But there's still a new villain in the
woodwork so maybe it's not over. The trouble is he doesn't know what
to do with the new villain.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-26 19:11:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
Yes, I do. I would like a replacement heart as mine is slowly dying.
Instead, our technology of today is to force fit about 2,220 young
people's hearts a year into middle aged people who then have to take
enormous amounts of steroid drugs that cause other serious issues.

Or, you can get a mechanical heart that will kill you when it runs out
of power or the other myriad problems that can happen inserting a
foreign body into a human body with an immune system that fiercely
attacks anything it sees as not a native body part.

Lynn
Wolffan
2020-05-30 21:59:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Wolffan
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
The protag was an idiot. He got quite a few people killed, and nearly got
killed himself, because he was an idiot. He continued to be an idiot in _The
Armageddon Agenda_, not merely risking himself (at least twice) when there
was no reason to, but risking the entire population of the Earth if he
didn’t get back with heavy help. And he continued to be an idiot in the
last book, the one whose name I always forget because it was so _stupid_, the
one which he later rewrote as the basis for the Safehold books. They
weren’t, quite, as stupid. They were, however, MUCH LONGER. And desperately
in need of an editor.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-05-30 22:15:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by Scott Lurndal
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Mutineer's moon falls into the 'wish fulfillment genre', wherein the reader
says "I wish I was the protagonist".
The protag was an idiot. He got quite a few people killed, and nearly got
killed himself, because he was an idiot. He continued to be an idiot in _The
Armageddon Agenda_, not merely risking himself (at least twice) when there
was no reason to, but risking the entire population of the Earth if he
didn’t get back with heavy help. And he continued to be an idiot in the
last book, the one whose name I always forget because it was so _stupid_, the
one which he later rewrote as the basis for the Safehold books. They
weren’t, quite, as stupid. They were, however, MUCH LONGER. And desperately
in need of an editor.
There doesn't seem to be a way to search amazon reviews from google, but
I particularly recall one review of a "Safehold" book which contained a
phrase such as, "The best thing to do when one has writers' block is to
stop typing!".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-24 19:49:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
In that case I think you haven't even read
_De gustibus non disputandum est_ ;-)

We are not discussing - as we might be - a list such as
_13 Novels Set Inside Celestial Bodies Known to Tycho Brahe_.
If we were, then I would prefer to acknowledge a series
by its start, which is the usual best reading-from point.
If the Great Comet of 1577 is not involved until book
four... do what you can, preferably with no spoiling.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-24 23:39:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Please note that this is your opinion, not a statement of fact.

Lynn
Wolffan
2020-05-30 21:48:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Wolffan
Post by Jim Hetley
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Lynn
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I just finished my umpteenth re-read of the story and still find it delightful.
Jim
Indubitably. My favorite SF/F book of all time is "Mutineer's Moon" by
David Weber. Very few people agree with me that it is the finest SF/F
book of all time.
Lynn
It’s not even Weber’s best work; that’s probably _The Short Victorious
War_. It’s not even the best of it’s series; that would be _The
Armageddon Agenda_. And Weber himself is decidedly second tier, behind
Anderson and Niven and Heinlein and Bujold.
Please note that this is your opinion, not a statement of fact.
Lynn
gee, Lynn... three things:

1 it’s merely your opinion that it’s the finest S/F book of all time. As
you yourself noted, very few agree with you. There would be reasons why.

2 it’s weak in many areas, not least biology and physics. And sociology.
And group dynamics. And... it’s a _looooong_ list.

3 didn’t you killfile me quite some time ago?
Dan Swartzendruber
2020-05-21 01:57:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
_Lord of Light_ by Roger Zelazny
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060567236/
A standalone fantasy book with no prequel or sequel that I know of.
Hugo best novel winner of 1968. I read the well printed and bound trade
paperback.
Sorry, not my cup of tea. I had to force myself to finish the book. It
is well written, but just weird. And the book does not progress through
time consecutively so you have to infer what has happened against the
past being flashbacked in an unclear manner.
My rating: 3 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (396 reviews)
Yeah, not my favorite either...
Loading...