Discussion:
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship
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Lynn McGuire
2021-04-20 00:34:44 UTC
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YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?

Lynn
Andrew McDowell
2021-04-20 04:28:08 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
I don't really think this is a good enough match, but Frank Chadwick's books have humans behaving in ways which are stereotypically associated with ghettos and their inhabitants. Aliens have FTL technology (protected by patent and secrecy) and humans work in low level jobs and have populateda large underclass. Despite their technological achievements (and thereby hangs a tale) the aliens are plodding and uncreative, so human music has pretty much taken over.

This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World Becomes" but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" - this is not only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many features (such as his use of multiple views of the action, with different observers not necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so you may know how a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that would have made it very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not apparently been an instant disqualification for awards this year.
Robert Woodward
2021-04-20 05:04:50 UTC
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Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
I don't really think this is a good enough match, but Frank Chadwick's books
have humans behaving in ways which are stereotypically associated with
ghettos and their inhabitants. Aliens have FTL technology (protected by
patent and secrecy) and humans work in low level jobs and have populateda
large underclass. Despite their technological achievements (and thereby hangs
a tale) the aliens are plodding and uncreative, so human music has pretty
much taken over.
This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World Becomes"
but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" - this is not
only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many features (such
as his use of multiple views of the action, with different observers not
necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so you may know how
a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that would have made it
very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not apparently been an
instant disqualification for awards this year.
What did Frank Chadwick do (other than being a prominent board wargame
designer)?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Andrew McDowell
2021-04-20 06:22:58 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Andrew McDowell
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
I don't really think this is a good enough match, but Frank Chadwick's books
have humans behaving in ways which are stereotypically associated with
ghettos and their inhabitants. Aliens have FTL technology (protected by
patent and secrecy) and humans work in low level jobs and have populateda
large underclass. Despite their technological achievements (and thereby hangs
a tale) the aliens are plodding and uncreative, so human music has pretty
much taken over.
This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World Becomes"
but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" - this is not
only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many features (such
as his use of multiple views of the action, with different observers not
necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so you may know how
a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that would have made it
very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not apparently been an
instant disqualification for awards this year.
What did Frank Chadwick do (other than being a prominent board wargame
designer)?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
I can't comment about his game designing, because I know very little about board games. Of his books, I have read a two-book series, How Dark the World Becomes and Come the Revolution, featuring a gangster with a heart of gold - perfectly reasonable but not earth-shattering. I read these because of another two-books series, Chain of Command and Ship of Destiny, featuring a rising corporate executive whose reserve commission as a navy officer is activated - the first is very good - the second is very very good and IMHO award-worthy. All are in this universe where alien corporations have patent and secrecy restrictions on technology and humanity has a sort of ghetto or first generation immigrant status, but the atmosphere of gangsterism is much darker than that of a naval officer / corporate executive who is clearly going places.
Hamish Laws
2021-04-21 05:09:35 UTC
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Post by Andrew McDowell
This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World Becomes" but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" - this is not only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many features (such as his use of multiple views of the action, with different observers not necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so you may know how a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that would have made it very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not apparently been an instant disqualification for awards this year.
Baen authors suffer in that Baen has a reputation for publishing lots of gun and ship porn resulting in a lot of people not picking up Baen titles (which are easily distinguished) so that the non-gun and ship porn titles don't get the wide reading they need to get nominations. Bujold-Masters has enough of a reputation that she's mostly avoided that problem
Robert Woodward
2021-04-21 16:37:05 UTC
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Post by Hamish Laws
Post by Andrew McDowell
This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World
Becomes" but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" -
this is not only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many
features (such as his use of multiple views of the action, with different
observers not necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so
you may know how a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that
would have made it very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not
apparently been an instant disqualification for awards this year.
Baen authors suffer in that Baen has a reputation for publishing lots of gun
and ship porn resulting in a lot of people not picking up Baen titles (which
are easily distinguished) so that the non-gun and ship porn titles don't get
the wide reading they need to get nominations. Bujold-Masters has enough of a
reputation that she's mostly avoided that problem
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Kevrob
2021-04-22 02:05:57 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Hamish Laws
Post by Andrew McDowell
This is most obvious in a pair of works starting "How Dark the World
Becomes" but it is in the background of a pair ending "Ship of Destiny" -
this is not only a very interesting and entertaining book, but it has many
features (such as his use of multiple views of the action, with different
observers not necessarily recounting the action at synchronised times, so
you may know how a scene is going to finish, but not how it got there) that
would have made it very award-worthy, had "Frank Chadwick" or "Baen" not
apparently been an instant disqualification for awards this year.
Baen authors suffer in that Baen has a reputation for publishing lots of gun
and ship porn resulting in a lot of people not picking up Baen titles (which
are easily distinguished) so that the non-gun and ship porn titles don't get
the wide reading they need to get nominations. Bujold-Masters has enough of a
reputation that she's mostly avoided that problem
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
--
Read "starship" for ship? One website that features (relation)ship
porn has already won a Hugo. No specific bit of porn won, though.

http://www.thehugoawards.org/2019/12/2019-hugo-awards-clarification/
--
Kevin R
--
Kevin R
The Horny Goat
2021-06-25 04:04:26 UTC
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
Moriarty
2021-06-25 04:37:29 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
Yes, because of the extensive, loving, descriptions of the ships and battles. NTTAWRT.

I liked early HH but bailed as the descriptions got longer and longer, frequently to the detriment of the plot.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-06-25 14:42:07 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.

Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
The Horny Goat
2021-09-08 01:05:31 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.

Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
Lynn McGuire
2021-09-08 01:10:52 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
Missiles.

FTL communications over wandering gravity wells.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2021-09-08 01:46:14 UTC
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Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
Long lingering detailed descriptions of spaceships whose function
depends on made up pretend physics.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-08 02:15:40 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
Long lingering detailed descriptions of spaceships whose function
depends on made up pretend physics.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-08 02:14:33 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Oh, I can see that. Lots of ship-to-ship warfare, valiant
captain who must make her command decisions in the heat of the
moment. Forester began his Hornblower series by considering the
character of Hornblower himself as The Man Alone. Gender doesn't
matter.
Post by The Horny Goat
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
"Space opera" is the stfnal version of "horse opera," a term
applied to the standard shoot-'em-up Western of the 1930s through
the 1950s.

It differs from "spaceship porn" in that it pays little or no
attention to how its goshwow technology works, it's enough that
our heroes can ignore gravity or the limiting velocity of c.
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final
chapter.)

Whereas spaceship porn is all *about* the technology, described
in lascivious and violent detail. It may bypass gravity and c
too, but its treatment of technology is not to ignore how it
works, but to dwell on how it behaves.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2021-09-08 15:57:09 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Oh, I can see that. Lots of ship-to-ship warfare, valiant
captain who must make her command decisions in the heat of the
moment. Forester began his Hornblower series by considering the
character of Hornblower himself as The Man Alone. Gender doesn't
matter.
Post by The Horny Goat
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
"Space opera" is the stfnal version of "horse opera," a term
applied to the standard shoot-'em-up Western of the 1930s through
the 1950s.
It differs from "spaceship porn" in that it pays little or no
attention to how its goshwow technology works, it's enough that
our heroes can ignore gravity or the limiting velocity of c.
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final
chapter.)
Whereas spaceship porn is all *about* the technology, described
in lascivious and violent detail. It may bypass gravity and c
too, but its treatment of technology is not to ignore how it
works, but to dwell on how it behaves.
IIRC, one reason early SF was tolerated was /precisely because/ it
explained the science. Or psuedo-science.

So "spaceship porn" is, I suggest, arguabley closer to "classic SF"
than "space opera".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Woodward
2021-09-08 17:00:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<Snip of various>
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
"Space opera" is the stfnal version of "horse opera," a term
applied to the standard shoot-'em-up Western of the 1930s through
the 1950s.
It differs from "spaceship porn" in that it pays little or no
attention to how its goshwow technology works, it's enough that
our heroes can ignore gravity or the limiting velocity of c.
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final
chapter.)
Whereas spaceship porn is all *about* the technology, described
in lascivious and violent detail. It may bypass gravity and c
too, but its treatment of technology is not to ignore how it
works, but to dwell on how it behaves.
IIRC, one reason early SF was tolerated was /precisely because/ it
explained the science. Or psuedo-science.
So "spaceship porn" is, I suggest, arguabley closer to "classic SF"
than "space opera".
IIRC, what has been called the Super science era of SF was kicked off
when _The Skylark of Space_ appeared in Amazing in 1928. Early John W.
Campbell, Jr. wrote super science stories as well. However, as editor at
Astounding, Campbell didn't buy that many super science titles at all
(other than 3 Lensman serials). Weber has emulated Smith (in
particularly, _Mutineer's Moon_ and sequels), but generally his
fictional engineering, based on fictional physics, isn't quite as large
in scale.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-08 16:54:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Oh, I can see that. Lots of ship-to-ship warfare, valiant
captain who must make her command decisions in the heat of the
moment. Forester began his Hornblower series by considering the
character of Hornblower himself as The Man Alone. Gender doesn't
matter.
Post by The Horny Goat
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
"Space opera" is the stfnal version of "horse opera," a term
applied to the standard shoot-'em-up Western of the 1930s through
the 1950s.
It differs from "spaceship porn" in that it pays little or no
attention to how its goshwow technology works, it's enough that
our heroes can ignore gravity or the limiting velocity of c.
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final
chapter.)
Whereas spaceship porn is all *about* the technology, described
in lascivious and violent detail. It may bypass gravity and c
too, but its treatment of technology is not to ignore how it
works, but to dwell on how it behaves.
IIRC, one reason early SF was tolerated was /precisely because/ it
explained the science. Or psuedo-science.
So "spaceship porn" is, I suggest, arguably closer to "classic SF"
than "space opera".
Go back far enough and they can both be categorized under "pulp
fiction," along with pulpy magazines talking about that exciting
new technology, radio. And pulpy Westerns and pulpy detective
stories and pulpy soft-porn, which Isaac Asimov's father would
not let him read, "it'll fill your mind with junk and turn you
into a bum!"

It can be argued that young Isaac had more room in his mind than
even his father realized.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2021-09-09 15:29:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by The Horny Goat
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700, Robert Woodward
Post by Robert Woodward
The problem is that the people who consider certain Baen titles to be
gun or ship porn would also call _Ship of Destiny_ ship porn (there is,
after all, a fleet vs fleet battle in it).
I'm confused - would the Honor Harrington books (especially the
earlier ones) be considered "ship porn"?
My son considers everything Weber writes as spaceship porn.
Mind you, Hal read a whole lot of them back in the day, and
regaled me with the funny bits. I finally read a few of them
myself, and discovered that Hal had told me all the funny bits,
and the rest of the books was undiluted spaceship porn, for which
I have no taste.
Well Weber specifically does cite C S Forrester's Horatio Hornblower
as one of his key influences for the Honor books.
Oh, I can see that. Lots of ship-to-ship warfare, valiant
captain who must make her command decisions in the heat of the
moment. Forester began his Hornblower series by considering the
character of Hornblower himself as The Man Alone. Gender doesn't
matter.
Post by The Horny Goat
Just curious - what's the difference between 'space opera' and
'spaceship porn'?
"Space opera" is the stfnal version of "horse opera," a term
applied to the standard shoot-'em-up Western of the 1930s through
the 1950s.
It differs from "spaceship porn" in that it pays little or no
attention to how its goshwow technology works, it's enough that
our heroes can ignore gravity or the limiting velocity of c.
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final
chapter.)
Whereas spaceship porn is all *about* the technology, described
in lascivious and violent detail. It may bypass gravity and c
too, but its treatment of technology is not to ignore how it
works, but to dwell on how it behaves.
IIRC, one reason early SF was tolerated was /precisely because/ it
explained the science. Or psuedo-science.
So "spaceship porn" is, I suggest, arguably closer to "classic SF"
than "space opera".
Go back far enough and they can both be categorized under "pulp
fiction," along with pulpy magazines talking about that exciting
new technology, radio. And pulpy Westerns and pulpy detective
stories and pulpy soft-porn, which Isaac Asimov's father would
not let him read, "it'll fill your mind with junk and turn you
into a bum!"
It can be argued that young Isaac had more room in his mind than
even his father realized.
Indeed it could.

But my point was that it was tolerated by adults because it was
"educational". And had no sex at all. Ideal for 13-year-old males. In
their parent's opinion, of course.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Ahasuerus
2021-09-10 00:12:32 UTC
Reply
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On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 10:25:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
[snip-snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final chapter.)
I hope it will have a decent burial.
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-10 01:37:46 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final chapter.)
I hope it will have a decent burial.
I'd settle for a coherent ending.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2021-09-10 03:22:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final chapter.)
I hope it will have a decent burial.
I'd settle for a coherent ending.
You are such a demanding writer. :D
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
The Horny Goat
2021-09-17 03:11:03 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I'm in the process of writing a space opera ATM, and it has
already outfoxed gravity and will deal with c in its final chapter.)
I hope it will have a decent burial.
I'd settle for a coherent ending.
Why? My high school English teacher told us Shakespeare only had two
endings: tragedies where all the main characters died in the second
last scene and minor characters wound up the story or comedies which
always ended with one or more weddings.

Which is an oversimplification of Shakespeare but not by much. (It
certainly describes both Macbeth and Hamlet)

Jonathan
2021-04-21 22:12:43 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
I think it's more likely to be like the
movie District 9....eeew aliens.
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Butch Malahide
2021-09-08 04:08:22 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified, or are you paraphrasing?
Lynn McGuire
2021-09-09 03:23:32 UTC
Reply
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Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified, or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-09 16:24:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified, or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
Well, lots of sci fi aliens despise Earth.

Douglas Adams mentioned rich kids who like to
land a saucer in an isolated area of an uncontacted
planet and walk around in sight of some unreliable
witness wearing goofy antennas on their heads
and making a "beep beep" noise.

Now, is this a ghetto where unequal citizens live
for economic reasons including relative tolerance
from police officers, or is it the original meaning
of the place where unequal citizens live because
they are forbidden from living elsewhere in town?

In either of these cases, this is a place within
the polity, but looked down on. So it implies that
Earth is a member of space society.

Perhaps the situation in the _Men in Black_
comics (I assume) and movies applies, where
lots of aliens are living on present day Earth
but the "Men in Black" rush around to erase the
memory of anyone who has noticed.
Paul S Person
2021-09-10 15:17:20 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 09:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified, or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
Well, lots of sci fi aliens despise Earth.
Douglas Adams mentioned rich kids who like to
land a saucer in an isolated area of an uncontacted
planet and walk around in sight of some unreliable
witness wearing goofy antennas on their heads
and making a "beep beep" noise.
Now, is this a ghetto where unequal citizens live
for economic reasons including relative tolerance
from police officers, or is it the original meaning
of the place where unequal citizens live because
they are forbidden from living elsewhere in town?
In either of these cases, this is a place within
the polity, but looked down on. So it implies that
Earth is a member of space society.
Perhaps the situation in the _Men in Black_
comics (I assume) and movies applies, where
lots of aliens are living on present day Earth
but the "Men in Black" rush around to erase the
memory of anyone who has noticed.
I still remember the TV Spot where they deresed the audience and told
them to go see the film for the first time. Again.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-11 10:28:35 UTC
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Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 09:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified, or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
Well, lots of sci fi aliens despise Earth.
Douglas Adams mentioned rich kids who like to
land a saucer in an isolated area of an uncontacted
planet and walk around in sight of some unreliable
witness wearing goofy antennas on their heads
and making a "beep beep" noise.
Now, is this a ghetto where unequal citizens live
for economic reasons including relative tolerance
from police officers, or is it the original meaning
of the place where unequal citizens live because
they are forbidden from living elsewhere in town?
In either of these cases, this is a place within
the polity, but looked down on. So it implies that
Earth is a member of space society.
Perhaps the situation in the _Men in Black_
comics (I assume) and movies applies, where
lots of aliens are living on present day Earth
but the "Men in Black" rush around to erase the
memory of anyone who has noticed.
I still remember the TV Spot where they deresed the audience and told
them to go see the film for the first time. Again.
I have to guess that you blinked. :-)
Lafe
2021-09-09 16:34:43 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says, "Ew,
the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified,
or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
This is pretty far from your vague memory, but it's a pretty entertaining and
very brief story anyhow. It's just what came to mind when reading your earlier
description:

They're Made out of Meat by Terry Bisson:

https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html

Lafe
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-09 23:24:42 UTC
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Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says, "Ew,
the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want identified,
or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
This is pretty far from your vague memory, but it's a pretty entertaining and
very brief story anyhow. It's just what came to mind when reading your earlier
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
It's a favorite subject for short films. Here's a good one.



Pt
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-09 23:54:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them
says, "Ew,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want
identified,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
This is pretty far from your vague memory, but it's a pretty entertaining and
very brief story anyhow. It's just what came to mind when reading your
earlier
Post by Lafe
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
It's a favorite subject for short films. Here's a good one.
http://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg
Well, shucks. I looked at that one, and another with the same
theme linked just beneath it, and I heard the opening music, but
when the humanoids (in clever plastic disguise, I assume),
started speaking, there was no sound. In either of them.

Any suggestions for fixing that?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
pete...@gmail.com
2021-09-10 01:55:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them
says, "Ew,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want
identified,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
This is pretty far from your vague memory, but it's a pretty entertaining and
very brief story anyhow. It's just what came to mind when reading your
earlier
Post by Lafe
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
It's a favorite subject for short films. Here's a good one.
http://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg
Well, shucks. I looked at that one, and another with the same
theme linked just beneath it, and I heard the opening music, but
when the humanoids (in clever plastic disguise, I assume),
started speaking, there was no sound. In either of them.
Any suggestions for fixing that?
Ask Hal. It works fine for me.

Pt
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-10 02:45:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lafe
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them
says, "Ew,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is "Ew, the ghetto!" a verbatim quotation from the story you want
identified,
Post by Lafe
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Butch Malahide
or are you paraphrasing?
Severe paraphrasing.
Lynn
This is pretty far from your vague memory, but it's a pretty
entertaining and
Post by Lafe
very brief story anyhow. It's just what came to mind when reading your
earlier
Post by Lafe
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
It's a favorite subject for short films. Here's a good one.
http://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg
Well, shucks. I looked at that one, and another with the same
theme linked just beneath it, and I heard the opening music, but
when the humanoids (in clever plastic disguise, I assume),
started speaking, there was no sound. In either of them.
Any suggestions for fixing that?
Ask Hal. It works fine for me.
Okay; will do.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Butch Malahide
2021-09-08 19:31:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is that *all* that happens in the story? So it was a microstory, less than a page?
Or did the space aliens have some interactian with humans either before or after
the quoted line? (I'm asking these questions on the assumption that you really
want the story identified. If you don't care about identification and just felt like
posting that quotation, please say so.)
Lynn McGuire
2021-09-09 03:26:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is that *all* that happens in the story? So it was a microstory, less than a page?
Or did the space aliens have some interactian with humans either before or after
the quoted line? (I'm asking these questions on the assumption that you really
want the story identified. If you don't care about identification and just felt like
posting that quotation, please say so.)
I do not remember if it was a short story, novella, or a book. Sounds
like a short story though.

Thanks,
Lynn
Butch Malahide
2021-09-09 23:28:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is that *all* that happens in the story? So it was a microstory, less than a page?
Or did the space aliens have some interactian with humans either before or after
the quoted line? (I'm asking these questions on the assumption that you really
want the story identified. If you don't care about identification and just felt like
posting that quotation, please say so.)
I do not remember if it was a short story, novella, or a book. Sounds
like a short story though.
Thanks,
Lynn
So youl're looking for a work of fiction of indeterminate length and unknown plot
in which the earth is despised by space aliens? Will you be able to pick the winner
from a list of several thousand stories that meet your criteria?
Lynn McGuire
2021-09-09 23:37:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Butch Malahide
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
Lynn
Is that *all* that happens in the story? So it was a microstory, less than a page?
Or did the space aliens have some interactian with humans either before or after
the quoted line? (I'm asking these questions on the assumption that you really
want the story identified. If you don't care about identification and just felt like
posting that quotation, please say so.)
I do not remember if it was a short story, novella, or a book. Sounds
like a short story though.
Thanks,
Lynn
So youl're looking for a work of fiction of indeterminate length and unknown plot
in which the earth is despised by space aliens? Will you be able to pick the winner
from a list of several thousand stories that meet your criteria?
I don't even remember writing this posting last April !

Lynn
David Duffy
2021-09-11 03:35:30 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
"Now here we are approached by creatures who have no inkling of the
true odiousness of their existence, nor any knowledge of their cause!
Now here they come knocking at the venerable door of this Worthy
Assembly, and what then, pray, are we to tell them, all these
abominoids, howlmouths, freaksnouts, clenchpoops, corpse-lovers,
mother-eaters and addlepates, wringing their alleged hands and
falling to their alleged knees when they learn that in reality they
belong to the subphylum 'Artefacta', and their supreme and perfect
creator was some ship's cook, who once poured out upon the rocks
of a dead planet a bucket of fermented slops, for his own
amusement imparting to that wretched source of life properties
which would later make it the laughing-stock of the entire Galaxy!
And how pray, will these poor devils defend themselves when some
future Cato throws up to them the shameful levoratatory configuration,
yes the left-handedness, of their amino acids!!"
Kevrob
2021-09-11 04:08:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
"Now here we are approached by creatures who have no inkling of the
true odiousness of their existence, nor any knowledge of their cause!
Now here they come knocking at the venerable door of this Worthy
Assembly, and what then, pray, are we to tell them, all these
abominoids, howlmouths, freaksnouts, clenchpoops, corpse-lovers,
mother-eaters and addlepates, wringing their alleged hands and
falling to their alleged knees when they learn that in reality they
belong to the subphylum 'Artefacta', and their supreme and perfect
creator was some ship's cook, who once poured out upon the rocks
of a dead planet a bucket of fermented slops, for his own
amusement imparting to that wretched source of life properties
which would later make it the laughing-stock of the entire Galaxy!
And how pray, will these poor devils defend themselves when some
future Cato throws up to them the shameful levoratatory configuration,
yes the left-handedness, of their amino acids!!"
How'd they know about Cato?


Fgne Qvnevrf ol Yrz?
--
Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-09-11 05:09:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
"Now here we are approached by creatures who have no inkling of the
true odiousness of their existence, nor any knowledge of their cause!
Now here they come knocking at the venerable door of this Worthy
Assembly, and what then, pray, are we to tell them, all these
abominoids, howlmouths, freaksnouts, clenchpoops, corpse-lovers,
mother-eaters and addlepates, wringing their alleged hands and
falling to their alleged knees when they learn that in reality they
belong to the subphylum 'Artefacta', and their supreme and perfect
creator was some ship's cook, who once poured out upon the rocks
of a dead planet a bucket of fermented slops, for his own
amusement imparting to that wretched source of life properties
which would later make it the laughing-stock of the entire Galaxy!
And how pray, will these poor devils defend themselves when some
future Cato throws up to them the shameful levoratatory configuration,
yes the left-handedness, of their amino acids!!"
There's a segment of _Allegro Non Troppo_ which (a) uses Ravel's
_Bolero_ as a soundtrack; (b) is a parody of the _Rite of Spring_
sequence in _Fantasia_ (as the entire film is devoted to cocking
a snook at Disney and all his works); and (c) derives the entire
story of evolution out of a not-quite-empty Coke bottle tossed by
a departing spacecraft.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2021-09-11 11:21:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Duffy
Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID: Aliens passing the Earth in a space ship and one of them says,
"Ew, the ghetto !" ?
"Now here we are approached by creatures who have no inkling of the
true odiousness of their existence, nor any knowledge of their cause!
Now here they come knocking at the venerable door of this Worthy
Assembly, and what then, pray, are we to tell them, all these
abominoids, howlmouths, freaksnouts, clenchpoops, corpse-lovers,
mother-eaters and addlepates, wringing their alleged hands and
falling to their alleged knees when they learn that in reality they
belong to the subphylum 'Artefacta', and their supreme and perfect
creator was some ship's cook, who once poured out upon the rocks
of a dead planet a bucket of fermented slops, for his own
amusement imparting to that wretched source of life properties
which would later make it the laughing-stock of the entire Galaxy!
And how pray, will these poor devils defend themselves when some
future Cato throws up to them the shameful levoratatory configuration,
yes the left-handedness, of their amino acids!!"
There's a segment of _Allegro Non Troppo_
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_Non_Troppo )
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
which (a) uses Ravel's
_Bolero_ as a soundtrack; (b) is a parody of the _Rite of Spring_
sequence in _Fantasia_ (as the entire film is devoted to cocking
a snook at Disney and all his works); and (c) derives the entire
story of evolution out of a not-quite-empty Coke bottle tossed by
a departing spacecraft.
Rewriting a reply, since Google Groups ate the first version.

I was trying to remember if Alfred Bester was the
author of a short parody of _2001: A Space Odyssey_
where the strange object encounters are with
space litter.

I suppose there's a genre of worlds being changed
by visitors' leavings. It might include _The Gods Must
Be Crazy_ (film), and Star Trek's "A Piece of the Action".

James White may have written a space trash one,
but I may be misremembering one where experimenting
on an alien object on an outer system moon - or maybe
floating independently - leads to a swarm of alien ships
appearing in the Sol system... then leaving because
it's clear that the primates do /not/ need to be rescued
by a supernova - yet - and would we please not fiddle
with that again.
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