Discussion:
[Quora] What books should definitely not be movies?
(too old to reply)
David Johnston
2019-07-28 16:19:06 UTC
Permalink
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
David Johnston
Answered 10h ago
Anathem by Neal Stephenson. It’s huge, it’s filled with words that
aren’t words, and it revolves around “the philosophical debate between
Platonic realism and nominalism.” Oh yeah, that would put butts in seats.
Bo Lindbergh
2019-07-28 18:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.

/Bo Lindbergh
William Hyde
2019-07-28 19:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.

But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".

William Hyde
J. Clarke
2019-07-28 19:48:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:25:31 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
You know there has been a bad movie made of Dune and a somewhat better
mini-series. And there's another movie covering the first half in
production--they just wrapped filming so it should go on to release.
Jerry Brown
2019-07-28 20:28:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:48:07 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:25:31 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
You know there has been a bad movie made of Dune and a somewhat better
mini-series. And there's another movie covering the first half in
production--they just wrapped filming so it should go on to release.
I suspect that William Hyde's post was made with the same affectation
as those pointing out that Star Trek movies went straight from 4 to 6,
or that Highlander never had any sequels at all.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Leif Roar Moldskred
2019-07-29 10:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
You know there has been a bad movie made of Dune and a somewhat better
mini-series.
Personally, I'd classify them as respectively 'failed' and 'forgettable.'

There's a lot in Lynch's Dune movie that's really good that I'd class it
as simply a bad movie, even though as it doesn't work as a whole _at all_.

The SyFy miniseries, on the other hand, was a more consistent work that
managed to tell an actual story, but it was consistently mediocre and
lacked scope and ambition.

Of the two, I'd much rather rewatch the Lynch movie. It's a trainwreck,
but oh, _what_ a trainwreck.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-28 20:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos
Died", for example. Or "Dune".
It's been long enough since that came out, that I feel safe in
re-quoting Karen Anderson's review of "Dune."

"I *had* a turkey for Thanksgiving."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Titus G
2019-07-30 06:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos
Died", for example. Or "Dune".
It's been long enough since that came out, that I feel safe in
re-quoting Karen Anderson's review of "Dune."
"I *had* a turkey for Thanksgiving."
My remaining memories of Dune the film are positive. I remember the
worms, the movement seeking knife, heart plugs, Sting gesturing and
vaguely coven meetings. When I reread the book last year rating it 5
stars, it was mostly as if reading it for the first time as there was
little that was familiar from an ancient read or an ancient viewing of
the film of which a quick web search reveals opinions of many who
dislike turkey.
Oh, and Sting father so fat he had to be propelled about by several
little jets.
William Hyde
2019-07-30 19:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos
Died", for example. Or "Dune".
It's been long enough since that came out, that I feel safe in
re-quoting Karen Anderson's review of "Dune."
"I *had* a turkey for Thanksgiving."
My remaining memories of Dune the film are positive. I remember the
worms, the movement seeking knife, heart plugs, Sting gesturing and
vaguely coven meetings. When I reread the book last year rating it 5
stars, it was mostly as if reading it for the first time as there was
little that was familiar from an ancient read or an ancient viewing of
the film of which a quick web search reveals opinions of many who
dislike turkey.
Oh, and Sting father so fat he had to be propelled about by several
little jets.
The baron was Feyd's (Sting's) uncle. The Baron's only known child was Jessica. In the book he wore anti-gravity devices that lowered his weight (I sometimes wish for one on the fourth flight of stairs). He did not fly.

One of the movies many blunders was to make the Baron into a flying caricature of a bad guy. Dramatic tension doesn't hold up when the opposition is a cartoon.

Except in cartoons, I suppose.

William Hyde
Moriarty
2019-07-31 05:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Titus G
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos
Died", for example. Or "Dune".
It's been long enough since that came out, that I feel safe in
re-quoting Karen Anderson's review of "Dune."
"I *had* a turkey for Thanksgiving."
My remaining memories of Dune the film are positive. I remember the
worms, the movement seeking knife, heart plugs, Sting gesturing and
vaguely coven meetings. When I reread the book last year rating it 5
stars, it was mostly as if reading it for the first time as there was
little that was familiar from an ancient read or an ancient viewing of
the film of which a quick web search reveals opinions of many who
dislike turkey.
Oh, and Sting father so fat he had to be propelled about by several
little jets.
The baron was Feyd's (Sting's) uncle. The Baron's only known child was Jessica. In the book he wore anti-gravity devices that lowered his weight (I sometimes wish for one on the fourth flight of stairs). He did not fly.
One of the movies many blunders was to make the Baron into a flying caricature of a bad guy. Dramatic tension doesn't hold up when the opposition is a cartoon.
Except in cartoons, I suppose.
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and manipulation that book-Baron did. Unfortunately, many of the scenes he was in were dragged down by wooden acting from the guys who played Feyd-Rautha and Rabban.

-Moriarty
D B Davis
2019-07-31 15:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Moriarty wrote:

<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
word:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

INT. DUKE LETO'S OFFICE - DAWN

The Duke is propped up at his desk. A glazed look in his
eyes. Clearly paralyzed but alert. He can SEE....

BARON HARKONNEN across the room. With DeVries.
And several other Harkonnen guards. And...

DR. YUEH. Agitated.

DR. YUEH
...my half of the bargain, Baron. I
promised you the Duke, and there he is...

BARON HARKONNEN
And a delicious sight it is, Doctor.

DR. YUEH
...now it's time for your half.

BARON HARKONNEN
And...believe it or not...I'm a man of my
word.

DR. YUEH
Where is she!? You promised we'd be
reunited. You said you'd free her if I
did what you asked.

BARON HARKONNEN
Your wife is free, my good doctor.
Completely free...

And he floats across the room to a large draped object.
Yanks the velvet curtains away to REVEAL...
A glass SARCOPHAGUS. And a beautiful woman inside.
Clearly dead!

BARON HARKONNEN
...free of her mortal coil...free of her
physical cage. I freed her.

Yueh approaches the sarcophagus. Trembling. Unable to compute
the deviousness of what's just been done to him.

BARON HARKONNEN
I promised you'd be reunited.

Suddenly...DeVries steps in behind Yueh.
Drives a dagger deep into his back.

BARON HARKONNEN
And I'm a man of my word, as now you can
see.

But as Yueh sinks, he manages to point a cursing finger at
the Baron.

DR. YUEH
You...think...you've defeated...me.
But he doesn't finish. He falls over...dead.

BARON HARKONNEN
Never trust a traitor. Not even one you
create.
(turning back to Leto)
Well, my noble Duke, enjoying the show? I
hope so. I've kept you alive so that you
could witness every precious moment of
your betrayal.

DUKE LETO
(barely audible)
Paul...

BARON HARKONNEN
The boy? Dunno. Left him to the desert.
He and that gorgeous woman of yours. Had
to pry Piter off her. But we couldn't
have noble blood on our hands now, could
we? The Emperor was quite insistent about
that.

A small groan escapes Leto.

BARON HARKONNEN
Yes, your beloved Emperor. Just goes to
show...never get more popular than the
boss...unless you intend to sack him...

The Baron jerks away in mock horror and embarrassment.

BARON HARKONNEN
Did I say that? How impolitic of me. I
must be spending too much time with my
idiot nephew, Rabban. Oh well, you won't
tell, will you, dear man?

DE VRIES
Perhaps we should get on with it, then...

BARON HARKONNEN
Get on with it!? GET ON WITH IT!? This is
KANLY, Piter! Vendetta! And I'm going to
savor it! My family has hated the
Atreides for generations. They've been
the sand in our eye, the stink at our
meals...these arrogant Atreides and their
pompous honor...standing in our
way...always standing in our way...

He is floating around the room in a mad trance now.

BARON HARKONNEN
I want Leto to appreciate the beauty of
what I've done to him. I want him to
choke on the utter disgrace of his
defeat...

C.U. LETO. Straining to keep the Baron in focus.
Straining to remember Yueh's last words to him.
Straining to move his mouth!

BARON HARKONNEN
I want him to know that I, Baron Vladimir
Harkonnen, am the instrument of his
family's demise...the extinction of House
Atreides...and the ascendance of House Harkonnen!!!

http://duneinfo.com/Content/files/frank-herberts-dune-1.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thank you,
--
Don
)\._.,--....,'``.
/, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
`._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
My cat's telltale, tall tail tells tall tales.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-31 15:57:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INT. DUKE LETO'S OFFICE - DAWN
The Duke is propped up at his desk. A glazed look in his
eyes. Clearly paralyzed but alert. He can SEE....
BARON HARKONNEN across the room. With DeVries.
And several other Harkonnen guards. And...
DR. YUEH. Agitated.
DR. YUEH
...my half of the bargain, Baron. I
promised you the Duke, and there he is...
BARON HARKONNEN
And a delicious sight it is, Doctor.
DR. YUEH
...now it's time for your half.
BARON HARKONNEN
And...believe it or not...I'm a man of my
word.
DR. YUEH
Where is she!? You promised we'd be
reunited. You said you'd free her if I
did what you asked.
BARON HARKONNEN
Your wife is free, my good doctor.
Completely free...
And he floats across the room to a large draped object.
Yanks the velvet curtains away to REVEAL...
A glass SARCOPHAGUS. And a beautiful woman inside.
Clearly dead!
BARON HARKONNEN
...free of her mortal coil...free of her
physical cage. I freed her.
Yueh approaches the sarcophagus. Trembling. Unable to compute
the deviousness of what's just been done to him.
BARON HARKONNEN
I promised you'd be reunited.
Suddenly...DeVries steps in behind Yueh.
Drives a dagger deep into his back.
BARON HARKONNEN
And I'm a man of my word, as now you can
see.
But as Yueh sinks, he manages to point a cursing finger at
the Baron.
DR. YUEH
You...think...you've defeated...me.
But he doesn't finish. He falls over...dead.
BARON HARKONNEN
Never trust a traitor. Not even one you
create.
(turning back to Leto)
Well, my noble Duke, enjoying the show? I
hope so. I've kept you alive so that you
could witness every precious moment of
your betrayal.
DUKE LETO
(barely audible)
Paul...
BARON HARKONNEN
The boy? Dunno. Left him to the desert.
He and that gorgeous woman of yours. Had
to pry Piter off her. But we couldn't
have noble blood on our hands now, could
we? The Emperor was quite insistent about
that.
A small groan escapes Leto.
BARON HARKONNEN
Yes, your beloved Emperor. Just goes to
show...never get more popular than the
boss...unless you intend to sack him...
The Baron jerks away in mock horror and embarrassment.
BARON HARKONNEN
Did I say that? How impolitic of me. I
must be spending too much time with my
idiot nephew, Rabban. Oh well, you won't
tell, will you, dear man?
DE VRIES
Perhaps we should get on with it, then...
BARON HARKONNEN
Get on with it!? GET ON WITH IT!? This is
KANLY, Piter! Vendetta! And I'm going to
savor it! My family has hated the
Atreides for generations. They've been
the sand in our eye, the stink at our
meals...these arrogant Atreides and their
pompous honor...standing in our
way...always standing in our way...
He is floating around the room in a mad trance now.
BARON HARKONNEN
I want Leto to appreciate the beauty of
what I've done to him. I want him to
choke on the utter disgrace of his
defeat...
C.U. LETO. Straining to keep the Baron in focus.
Straining to remember Yueh's last words to him.
Straining to move his mouth!
BARON HARKONNEN
I want him to know that I, Baron Vladimir
Harkonnen, am the instrument of his
family's demise...the extinction of House
Atreides...and the ascendance of House Harkonnen!!!
http://duneinfo.com/Content/files/frank-herberts-dune-1.pdf
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Moriarty
2019-07-31 21:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.

If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile, provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget, which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.

But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and hard to translate from page to screen.

It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-01 00:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.
If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile,
provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget,
which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom
Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.
But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be
faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and
hard to translate from page to screen.
It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material
so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.
Well, I would be more interested in seeing it if I had liked
_Dune_ in the first place, which I didn't a whole lot. I read it
in _Analog_, it was something new and interesting, but I still
didn't care for it that much. And once the second volume came
out, I was all, "No way in hell."

Does it ever appear on Netflix? Even if there's a DVD edition,
I'm not going to spend money on it.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Moriarty
2019-08-01 00:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.
If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile,
provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget,
which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom
Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.
But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be
faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and
hard to translate from page to screen.
It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material
so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.
Well, I would be more interested in seeing it if I had liked
_Dune_ in the first place, which I didn't a whole lot. I read it
in _Analog_, it was something new and interesting, but I still
didn't care for it that much.
Ah well, it's not something you'll want to rush out and get then. If you and it ever cross paths, have a look-see and see if you like it.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And once the second volume came
out, I was all, "No way in hell."
Many people who liked _Dune_ thought that about the sequels. I did at the time but a recent-ish thread convinced me to give _Dune Messiah_ another go. I liked it much more than I did way back when.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Does it ever appear on Netflix? Even if there's a DVD edition,
I'm not going to spend money on it.
No idea. That scene, the text of which Don posted earlier, with Ian McNeice going full evil villain, is on youtube. It's worth five minutes of your time:



-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-01 01:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series
was Ian
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.
If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile,
provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget,
which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom
Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.
But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be
faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and
hard to translate from page to screen.
It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material
so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.
Well, I would be more interested in seeing it if I had liked
_Dune_ in the first place, which I didn't a whole lot. I read it
in _Analog_, it was something new and interesting, but I still
didn't care for it that much.
Ah well, it's not something you'll want to rush out and get then. If you
and it ever cross paths, have a look-see and see if you like it.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And once the second volume came
out, I was all, "No way in hell."
Many people who liked _Dune_ thought that about the sequels. I did at
the time but a recent-ish thread convinced me to give _Dune Messiah_
another go. I liked it much more than I did way back when.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Does it ever appear on Netflix? Even if there's a DVD edition,
I'm not going to spend money on it.
No idea. That scene, the text of which Don posted earlier, with Ian
McNeice going full evil villain, is on youtube. It's worth five minutes
http://youtu.be/P14BItB67zE
Thanks; bookmarked; will watch when there's time.
Johnny1A
2019-08-01 03:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.
If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile,
provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget,
which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom
Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.
But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be
faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and
hard to translate from page to screen.
It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material
so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.
Well, I would be more interested in seeing it if I had liked
_Dune_ in the first place, which I didn't a whole lot. I read it
in _Analog_, it was something new and interesting, but I still
didn't care for it that much.
Ah well, it's not something you'll want to rush out and get then. If you and it ever cross paths, have a look-see and see if you like it.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And once the second volume came
out, I was all, "No way in hell."
Many people who liked _Dune_ thought that about the sequels. I did at the time but a recent-ish thread convinced me to give _Dune Messiah_ another go. I liked it much more than I did way back when.
The thing about _Dune_ and its sequels is that the first books _looks_, superficially, like a fairly classic space opera. A corrupt empire, an honorable nobleman is betrayed but his heir escapes, hides out, eventually defeats the corrupt ruler and claims the throne.

Now, there are a _lot_ of hints in the storyline that this is actually an illusion, and what's actually going on is rather different, but to a youngish reader it's easy to miss these, or not grasp their import. It's not that hard to enjoy _Dune_ as an adventure story as a teenaged reader.

The sequels, starting with _Dune Messiah_, are a different kettle of fish. DM subverts the traditional adventure-story arc of _Dune_ almost from the first page. As you read it, one begins to conclude that maybe the empire would have been better off it Paul had not overthrown the Padishah Emperor. Everything that was 'supposed' to go right after the 'triumphant ending' in _Dune_ has gone into the ditch, and Paul looks rather ineffectual in some ways as he tries to cope with it.

Now all this actually emerges naturally and logically from the hints and shadows in _Dune_...but understanding that progression usually needs a bit of life experience.
J. Clarke
2019-08-01 00:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Moriarty
One of the better things about the low budget _Dune_ mini-series was Ian
McNeice's Baron Harkonnen. He managed just the right mix of menace and
manipulation that book-Baron did.
Amen. McNeice's performance is "a delicious sight," so to speak. IMHO,
this part of the treatment improves upon Herbert's original written
<script snipped>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That might almost be worth seeing, for MacNeice's performance.
He played Winston Churchill on several Doctor Who episodes, and
exceedingly well.
Yes, that's him.
If you ever get the chance it (the Dune mini-series) is worthwhile,
provided you don't expect too much. Its flaws stem from a low budget,
which means largely low budget actors and ordinary CGI. Think of Tom
Baker era Dr Who quality of special effects and you've got the idea.
But as Don demonstrated, the script is good and they TRIED to be
faithful to the book, even the bits that were character-internal and
hard to translate from page to screen.
It was obviously made by people who knew and loved the source material
so, until something better comes along, it's the definitive version.
Well, I would be more interested in seeing it if I had liked
_Dune_ in the first place, which I didn't a whole lot. I read it
in _Analog_, it was something new and interesting, but I still
didn't care for it that much. And once the second volume came
out, I was all, "No way in hell."
Does it ever appear on Netflix? Even if there's a DVD edition,
I'm not going to spend money on it.
Doesn't seem to be available anywhere streaming, at least not legally.
David Johnston
2019-07-29 05:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune. It's the later
books that would be problematic.
Johnny1A
2019-07-29 20:57:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune.
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.

The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Thomas Koenig
2019-07-29 21:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
You know that a film has been made? David Lynch was the director,
Sting played the young Harkonnen, and H.R. Giger of Alien fame
designed the Harkonnen furniture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-29 21:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by Johnny1A
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action
sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the
_Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is
mental/internal.
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard
time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip
Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
You know that a film has been made? David Lynch was the director,
Sting played the young Harkonnen, and H.R. Giger of Alien fame
designed the Harkonnen furniture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)
Yes, I think he knows that. He's manifesting the kind of denial that
says, e.g., that there was only one Highlander movie. We all do
bizarre things to preserve our sanity.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-07-30 02:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Johnny1A
Post by Johnny1A
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action
sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the
_Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is
mental/internal.
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard
time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip
Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
You know that a film has been made? David Lynch was the director,
Sting played the young Harkonnen, and H.R. Giger of Alien fame
designed the Harkonnen furniture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)
Yes, I think he knows that. He's manifesting the kind of denial that
says, e.g., that there was only one Highlander movie. We all do
bizarre things to preserve our sanity.
The first step is always presuming that one is sane in the first place. ;)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Johnny1A
2019-07-29 22:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Johnny1A
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
You know that a film has been made? David Lynch was the director,
Sting played the young Harkonnen, and H.R. Giger of Alien fame
designed the Harkonnen furniture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)
Yeah, I know. It _exemplifies_ some of the reasons Dune shouldn't be filmed. That said, because of that movie, I always picture an adult Paul Atreides as looking like Kyle MacLachlan (but I don't see Feyd-Rautha as looking like Sting, go figure).
Mike Van Pelt
2019-07-29 21:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.

(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
J. Clarke
2019-07-30 02:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.
(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
I thought that the stupid twit hadn't even heard of Heinlein until he
was well into production and somebody said "hey, you oughta read
this".
Juho Julkunen
2019-08-01 21:08:27 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
@gmail.com says...
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.
(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
Verhoeven has stated in an interview that he was struck by the
parallels he saw between the novel and his memories of growing up in
Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and chose to focus on that aspect.

Adaptations need not be 1-to-1. I kinda like the movie, on its own
terms.
Post by J. Clarke
I thought that the stupid twit hadn't even heard of Heinlein until he
was well into production and somebody said "hey, you oughta read
this".
Apparently the movie project started out as "Bug Hunt". _Starship
Troopers_ was optioned after somebody noted the similarity of the
script to Heinlein's novel.
--
Juho Julkunen
Dimensional Traveler
2019-08-01 22:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
@gmail.com says...
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.
(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
Verhoeven has stated in an interview that he was struck by the
parallels he saw between the novel and his memories of growing up in
Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and chose to focus on that aspect.
Adaptations need not be 1-to-1. I kinda like the movie, on its own
terms.
Part of why I have trouble believing Vorhoeven there is that I've seen
an earlier film he did set in Nazi-occupied Netherlands. He is quite
capable of exploring the evils of such societies without the level of
idiocy he introduced in 'Starship Troopers'.

There's also interviews where he's stated that the message of the movie
'Starship Troopers' was "ALL military force is evil". Which given that
it was military force that LIBERATED his country this is an attitude I
find hard to describe adequately.
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by J. Clarke
I thought that the stupid twit hadn't even heard of Heinlein until he
was well into production and somebody said "hey, you oughta read
this".
Apparently the movie project started out as "Bug Hunt". _Starship
Troopers_ was optioned after somebody noted the similarity of the
script to Heinlein's novel.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
J. Clarke
2019-08-01 23:40:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:25:20 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Juho Julkunen
@gmail.com says...
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.
(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
Verhoeven has stated in an interview that he was struck by the
parallels he saw between the novel and his memories of growing up in
Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and chose to focus on that aspect.
Adaptations need not be 1-to-1. I kinda like the movie, on its own
terms.
Part of why I have trouble believing Vorhoeven there is that I've seen
an earlier film he did set in Nazi-occupied Netherlands. He is quite
capable of exploring the evils of such societies without the level of
idiocy he introduced in 'Starship Troopers'.
There's also interviews where he's stated that the message of the movie
'Starship Troopers' was "ALL military force is evil". Which given that
it was military force that LIBERATED his country this is an attitude I
find hard to describe adequately.
Kind of attitude that makes you want to just let Sauron have the SOBs
if he wants them.
Juho Julkunen
2019-08-05 02:27:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Juho Julkunen
@gmail.com says...
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a
hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that
_Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Whatever the problems with the two Dune adaptations, at least
the people making it did not start out hating Frank Herbert
and everything they imagined he stood for, and determined to
slander him and his work on the screen.
(Which is pretty much where Voorhoeven was coming from.)
Verhoeven has stated in an interview that he was struck by the
parallels he saw between the novel and his memories of growing up in
Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and chose to focus on that aspect.
Adaptations need not be 1-to-1. I kinda like the movie, on its own
terms.
Part of why I have trouble believing Vorhoeven there is that I've seen
an earlier film he did set in Nazi-occupied Netherlands. He is quite
capable of exploring the evils of such societies without the level of
idiocy he introduced in 'Starship Troopers'.
It wouldn't have been my first guess, but I'm sure he knows his affairs
best. Nazi-occupied Netherland is a subject he has returned to several
times, so I'm sure there's room for different takes on it. 'Starship
Troopers' is clearly in the vein of his satires presented straight(-
ish).
Post by Dimensional Traveler
There's also interviews where he's stated that the message of the movie
'Starship Troopers' was "ALL military force is evil". Which given that
it was military force that LIBERATED his country this is an attitude I
find hard to describe adequately.
That one I hadn't heard (or have forgotten), and not knowing the
context can't really comment on.
--
Juho Julkunen
J. Clarke
2019-07-30 02:04:51 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:57:14 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune.
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Uh, the only relationship that the Starship Troopers movie had with
the book was that the idiot who made it gave some of his characters
names out of the book. He'd decided what story he wanted to tell
before he read it.
Dimensional Traveler
2019-07-30 02:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:57:14 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune.
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Uh, the only relationship that the Starship Troopers movie had with
the book was that the idiot who made it gave some of his characters
names out of the book. He'd decided what story he wanted to tell
before he read it.
According to an interview with the script writer, they didn't find out
the movie rights to Starship Troopers were available until after they
had finished their script. They bought them solely for the PR value,
then re-wrote the script to work with the title.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-30 02:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:57:14 -0700 (PDT), Johnny1A
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And
Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune.
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great
action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of
the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is
mental/internal.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Johnny1A
The result, I fear, is that a movie of _Dune_ is going have a hard
time not taking on the relationship with the movie that _Starshhip
Troopers_ the movie has with the RAH story.
Post by J. Clarke
Uh, the only relationship that the Starship Troopers movie had with
the book was that the idiot who made it gave some of his characters
names out of the book. He'd decided what story he wanted to tell
before he read it.
According to an interview with the script writer, they didn't find out
the movie rights to Starship Troopers were available until after they
had finished their script. They bought them solely for the PR value,
then re-wrote the script to work with the title.
What is the PR value though?

If every person who read the book saw the movie -- it would be a huge flop.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David Johnston
2019-07-30 02:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
Post by William Hyde
Post by Bo Lindbergh
Much of the weird experimental stuff from the 1960s.
_Report on Probability A_ comes to mind.
I'd see that movie.
But your point is well taken. I can't imagine a movie of "And Chaos Died", for example. Or "Dune".
William Hyde
Honestly there's plenty of filmable material in Dune.
There's plenty of filmable _scenes_ in _Dune_, yes. Some great action sequences, some plausible fanservice. But the overall story of the _Dune_ is hard to present purely visually, because so much of it is mental/internal.
Ehn. Honestly the problems only really arise if some idiot tries to
make Dune 2.
p. pinto
2019-07-31 22:10:15 UTC
Permalink
- hi;

ok, "report on probability "a", the movie", would be a challenge,
i'm sure someone *could* make an interesting film based upon it:
but "barefoot in the head" could be set in the catastrophic mess
resulting from a third world war fought in the aftermath of a
civil war to overthrow king donald I in america, fought across
yeurrp during the break-up of the dreaded ee-yewww! by right-wing
"nationalists", both fuelled by tsar vlad-the-impaler poutine I's
immensely successful cyber-warfare, the merkin megawealthy's
money, and the reliance upon "alternative" psychotropic weapons
by the people prepared to "stand up and fight" against evil but
*not* willing to murder anyone. . .

- definitely should *not* be filmed: lupoff's "space war blues";
also, the novel actually hidden within the covers of spinrad's
"the iron dream" - the hugo award-winning "scourge of the
swastika" by struggling science fiction author, adolf hitler. . .

- love, ppint.
--
decadence, n; the finest flowering of civilisation
a***@yahoo.com
2019-07-28 21:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
David Johnston
Answered 10h ago
Anathem by Neal Stephenson. It’s huge, it’s filled with words that
aren’t words, and it revolves around “the philosophical debate between
Platonic realism and nominalism.” Oh yeah, that would put butts in seats.
Only Forward by Michael Marshall Smith. Too strange
Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem Ditto.
Actually the problem with these books is that movie makers might try to unstrange them.
l***@yahoo.com
2019-07-29 19:13:58 UTC
Permalink
I would give a lot to see the lost TV version of Alexander Key's "The Forgotten Door," but I'm sure I'd be at least a bit disappointed. (Even though it was apparently 140 minutes long - cut into 7 episodes.)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215414/

So, there's at least ONE really good sci-fi book aimed at preteens that hasn't been spoiled by Hollywood hype and special effects...and it's still in print! You just have to read it aloud to the kids. It's truly beautiful. (Just don't get the recent edition that shows Jon with blond hair on the cover - it's made clear in the book that it's black.)


Lenona.
l***@yahoo.com
2019-07-29 19:31:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
So, there's at least ONE really good sci-fi book aimed at preteens that hasn't been spoiled by Hollywood hype and special effects...and it's still in print! You just have to read it aloud to the kids. It's truly beautiful. (Just don't get the recent edition that shows Jon with blond hair on the cover - it's made clear in the book that it's black.)
Oh, yes - reader reviews:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/409320.The_Forgotten_Door

(That cover is from the first paperback edition, I think.)

More:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACAU_enUS860&ei=Zkc_Xb2tMPCs5wKt8L34Cg&q=forgotten+door&oq=forgotten+door&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i22i30l6.6838.9253..9814...0.0..0.122.1316.12j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i67j0i131j0i131i67.NaOy4NjEgA4&ved=0ahUKEwi9-ID67NrjAhVw1lkKHS14D68Q4dUDCAo&uact=5
Johnny1A
2019-07-29 21:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
David Johnston
Answered 10h ago
Anathem by Neal Stephenson. It’s huge, it’s filled with words that
aren’t words, and it revolves around “the philosophical debate between
Platonic realism and nominalism.” Oh yeah, that would put butts in seats.
Some of these are 'should not ever have been movies or ever be movies':

Lensman (any of them).

Dune.

Any of Brin's early _Uplift_ novels. (Which I say a bit reluctantly because some aspects of them would be visually stunning if done right.)

The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings.

The Mote in God's Eye (please, please, never try)

RAH's _Friday_. (Hollywood would love to try it if only for the fanservice possibilities, but they should not.)

RAH's _Starship Troopers_.

Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
Thomas Koenig
2019-07-29 21:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
The Mote in God's Eye (please, please, never try)
Today's Hollywood would probably balk at the problems that "Mote"
presents, and at the potential solutions. CGI could also
portray the Moties, but...

What would probably be almost impossible is to portray the Mediators
as externally identical, but taking on the human's mannerisms
and voices - that would be _really_ hard.
Johnny1A
2019-07-29 22:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Johnny1A
The Mote in God's Eye (please, please, never try)
Today's Hollywood would probably balk at the problems that "Mote"
presents, and at the potential solutions. CGI could also
portray the Moties, but...
I fear what Hollywood would do with the Moties far less than I fear what they would do to 'modernize' the Imperials and the Imperial society in that novel.
-dsr-
2019-08-02 18:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Johnny1A
The Mote in God's Eye (please, please, never try)
Today's Hollywood would probably balk at the problems that "Mote"
presents, and at the potential solutions. CGI could also
portray the Moties, but...
What would probably be almost impossible is to portray the Mediators
as externally identical, but taking on the human's mannerisms
and voices - that would be _really_ hard.
It would be exceptionally easy.

The same human actors put on motion-cap outfits and play their respective
fyunch-clicks.

-dsr-
Moriarty
2019-07-29 21:28:04 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 7:04:43 AM UTC+10, Johnny1A wrote:

<snip>
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
The Lord of the Rings.
A wildly popular trilogy says otherwise.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-29 21:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
The Lord of the Rings.
A wildly popular trilogy says otherwise.
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly. Maybe in a
hundred years or so it will be remade, and well.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Moriarty
2019-07-29 22:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
The Lord of the Rings.
A wildly popular trilogy says otherwise.
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly.
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of "I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they were great.

I haven't watched my extended edition DVDs for a year or two. Might be time for a re-watch...

-Moriarty
Mike Van Pelt
2019-07-29 23:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Johnny1A
The Lord of the Rings.
A wildly popular trilogy says otherwise.
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly.
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.

Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Moriarty
2019-07-30 00:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Johnny1A
The Lord of the Rings.
A wildly popular trilogy says otherwise.
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly.
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.
And Aragorn, to a lesser extent. But he pretty much nailed the rest of the Fellowship and most of the other characters. Eowyn in particular was done very, very well.

He also wisely dropped Tom Bombadil. And while I would have liked to see The Scouring of the Shire, I understand why it wasn't included.
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
Source material. There existed plenty of LOTR to make three movies with. There was much less material for the Hobbit, so Jackson and the writers Made Shit Up. I have no idea how many drugs were consumed prior to the meeting where they agreed that an elf/dwarf love story would be a good addition, but it must have been one hell of a party.

-Moriarty
Bice
2019-07-31 20:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly.
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.
Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
I am so glad to see someone else say this.  I was starting to think I
was the only one who loved Jackson's LoTR movies and absolutely hated
the Hobbit "prequels".

For the LoTR movies, I definitely agree they screwed up Faramir's
character.  And there was no reason for them to change him other than
to annoy people who read the books.  Also, the whole "Oh no, Aragorn
is dead" sub-plot they tried to add to Two Towers - what was the point
of that?  I mean, the third book is called Return of the King, so who
did they think they were fooling?

Other than that, I thought the LoTR movies were way better than anyone
had any right to expect them to be.  So I still can't believe horrible
the Hobbit movies were. But I guess they sold a lot of theater
tickets.

-- Bob
Magewolf
2019-08-01 02:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bice
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Moriarty
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
LotR could have been done well. It was done badly.
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.
Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
I am so glad to see someone else say this.  I was starting to think I
was the only one who loved Jackson's LoTR movies and absolutely hated
the Hobbit "prequels".
For the LoTR movies, I definitely agree they screwed up Faramir's
character.  And there was no reason for them to change him other than
to annoy people who read the books.  Also, the whole "Oh no, Aragorn
is dead" sub-plot they tried to add to Two Towers - what was the point
of that?  I mean, the third book is called Return of the King, so who
did they think they were fooling?
Other than that, I thought the LoTR movies were way better than anyone
had any right to expect them to be.  So I still can't believe horrible
the Hobbit movies were. But I guess they sold a lot of theater
tickets.
-- Bob
Actually I think they screwed up everything about Gondor and it's people
except for Boromir.
Juho Julkunen
2019-08-01 21:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Moriarty
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.
Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
See, this confusion only arises because you think Jackson somehow did a
good job with LotR. It is not mysterious at all to me. Indeed, I never
went to see the Hobbit movies, because I was confident they would suck,
just like his LotR adaptations.

He and his collaborators understood nothing at all about the source
material.
--
Juho Julkunen
Titus G
2019-08-02 00:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Moriarty
And there's where we disagree. As a fan of the books, I think
the movies were done remarkably well. Sure, there were plenty of
"I wouldn't have done it THAT way" moments, but overall they
were great.
The only thing that really ticked me off about the LotR movies
was that Jackson badly messed up Faramir.
Now, the execreble "Hobbit" things Jackson did ... How could
someone who did so good a job, in general, on LotR, do such
a horrible botch of The Hobbit?
See, this confusion only arises because you think Jackson somehow did a
good job with LotR. It is not mysterious at all to me. Indeed, I never
went to see the Hobbit movies, because I was confident they would suck,
just like his LotR adaptations.
I remember sort of enjoying the LOTR series of films which I watched on
free to air tv long after they had been shown in theatres and available
on dvd but they did not meet expectations having little impact compared
to the thrill of reading the books decades before. I have carefully
avoided the Hobbit films not because Hollywood's muscle and our puppet
Prime Minister altered our labour laws to increase studio profits as
well as conspiring to persecute Dotcom **, but because of warnings from
here.

** In anticipation of a request for a cite, a search for "Hooton Dotcom
Hobbit" will provide both sides of the story.
Post by Juho Julkunen
He and his collaborators understood nothing at all about the source
material.
Moriarty
2019-07-29 21:29:41 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a fantastic movie.

-Moriarty
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-29 21:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-29 21:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.

"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....

"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."

It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-29 22:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.

Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kevrob
2019-07-29 22:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a
fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
...and Mike Hodges and Dino De Laurentiis were still using it
for "Flash Gordon" in 1980. There were notable camp elements in
the 4 SUPERMAN movies from the Salkinds: anything to do with
Otis, Gus Gorman, and just about all of "Superman 4."

The campier ones put fewer keisters in theater seats, though.

Camp seeped into the James Bond series, also.

Remember Dick Donner's watchword: VERISIMILITUDE.
Camp is its enemy.

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2019-07-30 02:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a
fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
...and Mike Hodges and Dino De Laurentiis were still using it
for "Flash Gordon" in 1980. There were notable camp elements in
the 4 SUPERMAN movies from the Salkinds: anything to do with
Otis, Gus Gorman, and just about all of "Superman 4."
The campier ones put fewer keisters in theater seats, though.
Camp seeped into the James Bond series, also.
Remember Dick Donner's watchword: VERISIMILITUDE.
Camp is its enemy.
Perhaps I am mistaken but my impression is that camp only works if it
is not intentional.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-30 02:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a
fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't
ruin it like
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
...and Mike Hodges and Dino De Laurentiis were still using it
for "Flash Gordon" in 1980. There were notable camp elements in
the 4 SUPERMAN movies from the Salkinds: anything to do with
Otis, Gus Gorman, and just about all of "Superman 4."
The campier ones put fewer keisters in theater seats, though.
Camp seeped into the James Bond series, also.
Remember Dick Donner's watchword: VERISIMILITUDE.
Camp is its enemy.
Perhaps I am mistaken but my impression is that camp only works if it
is not intentional.
Well, the West 'Batman' worked and was pretty clearly written and acted
that way on purpose. If that makes it not 'camp', so be it.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2019-07-30 02:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a
fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't
ruin it like
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
...and Mike Hodges and Dino De Laurentiis were still using it
for "Flash Gordon" in 1980. There were notable camp elements in
the 4 SUPERMAN movies from the Salkinds: anything to do with
Otis, Gus Gorman, and just about all of "Superman 4."
The campier ones put fewer keisters in theater seats, though.
Camp seeped into the James Bond series, also.
Remember Dick Donner's watchword: VERISIMILITUDE.
Camp is its enemy.
Perhaps I am mistaken but my impression is that camp only works if it
is not intentional.
Well, the West 'Batman' worked and was pretty clearly written and acted
that way on purpose. If that makes it not 'camp', so be it.
The thing is, I never really felt that it worked.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-30 03:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, the West 'Batman' worked and was pretty clearly written and acted
that way on purpose. If that makes it not 'camp', so be it.
The thing is, I never really felt that it worked.
Well, obviously I can't dispute that.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2019-07-30 03:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, the West 'Batman' worked and was pretty clearly written and acted
that way on purpose. If that makes it not 'camp', so be it.
The thing is, I never really felt that it worked.
Well, obviously I can't dispute that.
A lot of '60s television never really worked for me--I'd watch it
because bad SF was better than no SF, but that doesn't mean that I
thought I was watching something that was actually good.
Kevrob
2019-07-30 05:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a
fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't
ruin it like
Post by Kevrob
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
...and Mike Hodges and Dino De Laurentiis were still using it
for "Flash Gordon" in 1980. There were notable camp elements in
the 4 SUPERMAN movies from the Salkinds: anything to do with
Otis, Gus Gorman, and just about all of "Superman 4."
The campier ones put fewer keisters in theater seats, though.
Camp seeped into the James Bond series, also.
Remember Dick Donner's watchword: VERISIMILITUDE.
Camp is its enemy.
Perhaps I am mistaken but my impression is that camp only works if it
is not intentional.
Well, the West 'Batman' worked and was pretty clearly written and acted
that way on purpose. If that makes it not 'camp', so be it.
Remember how that came about.

The 40s serials were being shown to college-age audiences
too "hip" and grown-up to enjoy them as the target-market -
pre-television 10-year-old kids (give or take a couple of
years) - did. They were in "art houses" and being shown at
parties by the likes of Hugh Hefner. The TV execs were
imitating naive good fun seen through the cynical eyes of
folks 10 or 20 years past the target demo.

http://www.oocities.org/twof1/omake/honk/revision3.html

I had the great joy of seeing most of the Universal and
Republic chapter plays on local television when I was
"in short pants." A local kids' show gave us a chapter
a day, while another independent station ran compilations
cut to feature film length. No BATMAN nor SUPERMAN nor
CAPTAIN MARVEL, but all the other greats ran. I can
only rewatch these through the lens of nostalgia.
If I chuckle at the cheap effects, it's with affection,
not with a sneer or a snigger.

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-29 22:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by Johnny1A
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
I was going to agree with you on this one, but "Changes" could make a fantastic movie.
-Moriarty
I would love a good HD treatment. I hope the SFY series didn't ruin it like
Pal ruined Doc Savage.
Well, that film was made in 1975, when "camp" was in.
"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something
as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value....
"[B]y the middle of the 1970s, the definition comprised 'banality,
mediocrity, artifice, [and] ostentation ... so extreme as to
amuse or have a perversely sophisticated appeal'."
It was the inevitable fate of pulp to become camp as soon as camp
was a thing.
Personally I would say 'camp' was over when the Adam West 'Batman'
series was cancelled in 1968.
Of course, Pal apparently didn't know that..
Nor, evidently, was whoever wrote the Wikipedia article from
which it was quoting.

I thought the Doc Savage movie was silly, but enjoyable, at least
for once. I thought the same thing about the Doc Savage books,
of which we used to have a large number; I don't know where they
got to, but three moves equal one fire.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
David Johnston
2019-07-30 03:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
David Johnston
Answered 10h ago
Anathem by Neal Stephenson. It’s huge, it’s filled with words that
aren’t words, and it revolves around “the philosophical debate between
Platonic realism and nominalism.” Oh yeah, that would put butts in seats.
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Mike Van Pelt
2019-07-30 18:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)

But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-07-30 18:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa" prohibition,
but I'm OK with that.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Mike Van Pelt
2019-07-30 21:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa"
prohibition, but I'm OK with that.
Same here. I'd also like to see the "No L3s except humans,
non-human L2s never meet their counterparts" thing go away, too.

(Though maybe that hint at the end of CotL...)
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 21:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa"
prohibition, but I'm OK with that.
Same here. I'd also like to see the "No L3s except humans,
non-human L2s never meet their counterparts" thing go away, too.
(Though maybe that hint at the end of CotL...)
Well, since none of us are going to get the chance to do it ...

I'd stick with the original version of both those ideas. I see
the Arisians' reasoning as this: "All four of the species we've
nurtured for so long have many desirable qualities, but only the
Tellurians can be sufficiently aggressive bastards to have enough
of what we call "power of mind" that can get what we need done.
And only the males have demonstrated that quality, at least so far
-- and only a subset of those can be aggressive bastards *who are
incorruptable.* Which is a pretty unlikely combination, when you
get right down to it. So we breed the end-of-the-line Tellurian
male and female to one another, in the pious hope that we can get
some L3s out of them, and that they can take out the Eddorians
for good and all, and then we can get some [multiply andsulfurously
qualified] rest!"

For Lensmen as incorruptable aggressive bastards, see See Wasp's
various posts on what an INN-teresting life it is to be a
Lensman's Mate. (If everyone has forgotten them, I think I still
have 'em on disk somewhere.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Johnny1A
2019-07-31 04:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa"
prohibition, but I'm OK with that.
Same here. I'd also like to see the "No L3s except humans,
non-human L2s never meet their counterparts" thing go away, too.
(Though maybe that hint at the end of CotL...)
See what I mean? _Already_ we're imagining core elements of the storyline rewritten for movie purposes. While we're at it, we could throw in a Lensed traitor and give the DeLameters a stun setting, since we don't want to seem to quick to kill.

Yeah, _Lensman_ has some fantastic action sequences, the sort of thing modern FX and CGI could really be useful to try to show. To do that part right would require an awesome budget, but it could make a fantastic spectacle.

But you almost have to rewrite the story into something else.
David Johnston
2019-07-31 06:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa"
prohibition, but I'm OK with that.
Same here. I'd also like to see the "No L3s except humans,
non-human L2s never meet their counterparts" thing go away, too.
(Though maybe that hint at the end of CotL...)
See what I mean? _Already_ we're imagining core elements of the storyline rewritten for movie purposes. While we're at it, we could throw in a Lensed traitor and give the DeLameters a stun setting, since we don't want to seem to quick to kill.
Yeah, _Lensman_ has some fantastic action sequences, the sort of thing modern FX and CGI could really be useful to try to show. To do that part right would require an awesome budget, but it could make a fantastic spectacle.
But you almost have to rewrite the story into something else.
And the problem is? When I nominated Anathem as my unfilmable book it
wasn't because some bits of it need a tweak. It's because it contained
nothing that at all that would work as a film.
p***@hotmail.com
2019-07-31 23:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
They would have to take out the "no lenswomen except Clarissa"
prohibition, but I'm OK with that.
Same here. I'd also like to see the "No L3s except humans,
non-human L2s never meet their counterparts" thing go away, too.
(Though maybe that hint at the end of CotL...)
See what I mean? _Already_ we're imagining core elements of the storyline rewritten for movie purposes. While we're at it, we could throw in a Lensed traitor and give the DeLameters a stun setting, since we don't want to seem to quick to kill.
To a certain extent, the author has anticipated this. The following passage
is from _Galactic Patrol_, courtesy of the Gutenberg Project, where Kinnison,
VanBuskirk, and Worsel have tapped into a Delgonian power plant to recharge
their accumulators:

Far longer than Kinnison had thought possible they were unmolested, but
finally a couple of Delgonian engineers came to investigate the unprecedented
shortage in the output of their completely automatic generators. At the entrance
they were stopped, for no ordinary tools could force the barricade vanBuskirk
had erected behind that portal. With leveled weapons the Patrolmen stood,
awaiting the expected attack, but none developed. Hour by hour the long night
wore away, uneventfully. At daybreak, however, a storming party appeared and
massive battering rams were brought into play.

As the dull, heavy concussions reverberated throughout the building the
Patrolmen each picked up two of the weapons piled before them and Kinnison
addressed the Velantian.
"Drag a couple of those metal benches across that corner and coil up behind
them," he directed. "They'll be enough to ground any stray charges--if they
can't see you they won't know you're here, so probably nothing much will come
your way direct."

The Velantian demurred, declaring that he would not hide while his two
companions were fighting his battle, but Kinnison silenced him fiercely.
"Don't be a fool!" the Lensman snapped. "One of these beams would fry you to
a crisp in ten seconds, but the defensive fields of our armor could neutralize
a thousand of them, from now on. Do as I say, and do it quick, or I'll shock
you unconscious and toss you in there myself!"

I don't recall if this less-than-lethal capability was mentioned in any
other story. Since they were communicating telepathically via Kinnison's
lens, Kinnison must have been telling the truth. I note that Velantians are
very big and rugged and it may well have been possible to stun one of them
with a Delameter even if such an attempt would kill a more fragile being
such as a human.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
JimboCat
2019-08-01 16:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@hotmail.com
The Velantian demurred, declaring that he would not hide while his two
companions were fighting his battle, but Kinnison silenced him fiercely.
"Don't be a fool!" the Lensman snapped. "One of these beams would fry you to
a crisp in ten seconds, but the defensive fields of our armor could neutralize
a thousand of them, from now on. Do as I say, and do it quick, or I'll shock
you unconscious and toss you in there myself!"
I don't recall if this less-than-lethal capability was mentioned in any
other story. Since they were communicating telepathically via Kinnison's
lens, Kinnison must have been telling the truth. I note that Velantians are
very big and rugged and it may well have been possible to stun one of them
with a Delameter even if such an attempt would kill a more fragile being
such as a human.
Kinnison threatened to SHOCK the Velantian. They were in the POWER ROOM. It doesn't seem like a DeLameter would be involved at all...

JimboCat
--
"But they were old school lead and steel jackets not modern armor piercing and had little effect on the powered metamaterial super dense long chain polymer coated polar aligned nanotubes the new suits were made of." [Travis S. Taylor]
h***@gmail.com
2019-08-01 16:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimboCat
Post by p***@hotmail.com
The Velantian demurred, declaring that he would not hide while his two
companions were fighting his battle, but Kinnison silenced him fiercely.
"Don't be a fool!" the Lensman snapped. "One of these beams would fry you to
a crisp in ten seconds, but the defensive fields of our armor could neutralize
a thousand of them, from now on. Do as I say, and do it quick, or I'll shock
you unconscious and toss you in there myself!"
I don't recall if this less-than-lethal capability was mentioned in any
other story. Since they were communicating telepathically via Kinnison's
lens, Kinnison must have been telling the truth. I note that Velantians are
very big and rugged and it may well have been possible to stun one of them
with a Delameter even if such an attempt would kill a more fragile being
such as a human.
Kinnison threatened to SHOCK the Velantian. They were in the POWER ROOM. It doesn't seem like a DeLameter would be involved at all...
Considering the description of Velantians it seems unlikely that Kinnison could have shocked any other way without consent...
Johnny1A
2019-08-03 03:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by JimboCat
Post by p***@hotmail.com
The Velantian demurred, declaring that he would not hide while his two
companions were fighting his battle, but Kinnison silenced him fiercely.
"Don't be a fool!" the Lensman snapped. "One of these beams would fry you to
a crisp in ten seconds, but the defensive fields of our armor could neutralize
a thousand of them, from now on. Do as I say, and do it quick, or I'll shock
you unconscious and toss you in there myself!"
I don't recall if this less-than-lethal capability was mentioned in any
other story. Since they were communicating telepathically via Kinnison's
lens, Kinnison must have been telling the truth. I note that Velantians are
very big and rugged and it may well have been possible to stun one of them
with a Delameter even if such an attempt would kill a more fragile being
such as a human.
Kinnison threatened to SHOCK the Velantian. They were in the POWER ROOM. It doesn't seem like a DeLameter would be involved at all...
Considering the description of Velantians it seems unlikely that Kinnison could have shocked any other way without consent...
KK was wearing his space armor. It would have been no problem to handle an unarmored Worsel wearing that.
p***@hotmail.com
2019-08-04 02:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by JimboCat
Post by p***@hotmail.com
The Velantian demurred, declaring that he would not hide while his two
companions were fighting his battle, but Kinnison silenced him fiercely.
"Don't be a fool!" the Lensman snapped. "One of these beams would fry you to
a crisp in ten seconds, but the defensive fields of our armor could neutralize
a thousand of them, from now on. Do as I say, and do it quick, or I'll shock
you unconscious and toss you in there myself!"
I don't recall if this less-than-lethal capability was mentioned in any
other story. Since they were communicating telepathically via Kinnison's
lens, Kinnison must have been telling the truth. I note that Velantians are
very big and rugged and it may well have been possible to stun one of them
with a Delameter even if such an attempt would kill a more fragile being
such as a human.
Kinnison threatened to SHOCK the Velantian. They were in the POWER ROOM. It doesn't seem like a DeLameter would be involved at all...
Considering the description of Velantians it seems unlikely that Kinnison could have shocked any other way without consent...
KK was wearing his space armor. It would have been no problem to handle an unarmored Worsel wearing that.
The patrolmen's armor was very strong but it was not powered like the
Mobile Infantry's armor in _Starship Troopers_ . The following
passage starts when Kinnison and vanBuskirk are attacked after landing on
Delgon. I note that after their DeLameters are exhausted the spacesuits
are still powered up and capable of flight:

A crushing weight descended upon his back, and the Patrolmen found themselves
fighting for their lives. From the bare, supposedly evidently safe rock face
of the cliff there had emerged rope-tentacled monstrosities in a ravenously
attacking swarm. In the savage blasts of DeLameters hundreds of the gargoyle
horde vanished in vivid flares of radiance, but on they came; by thousands
and, it seemed, by millions. Eventually the batteries energizing the projectors
became exhausted. Then flailing coil met shearing steel, fierce-driven parrot
beaks clanged against space-tempered armor, bulbous heads pulped under
hard-swung axes; but not for the fractional second necessary for inertialess
flight could the two win clear. Then Kinnison sent out his SOS.

"A Lensman calling help! A Lensman calling help!" he broadcast with the full
power of mind and Lens, and immediately a sharp, clear voice poured into his
brain:

"Coming, wearer of the Lens! Coming at speed to the cliff of the Catlats. Hold
until I come! I arrive in thirty...."

Thirty what? What possible intelligible relative measure of that unknown and
unknowable concept, Time, can be conveyed by thought alone?

"Keep slugging, Bus!" Kinnison panted. "Help is on the way. A local cop--voice
sounds like it could be a woman--will be here in thirty somethings. Don't know
whether it's thirty minutes or thirty days; but we'll still be there."

"Maybe so and maybe not," grunted the Dutchman. "Something's coming besides
help. Look up and see if you see what I think I do."

Kinnison did so. Through the air from the top of the cliff there was hurtling
downward toward them a veritable dragon: a nightmare's horror of hideously
reptilian head, of leathern wings, of viciously fanged jaws, of frightfully
taloned feet, of multiple knotty arms, of long, sinuous, heavily-scaled
serpent's body. In fleeting glimpses through the writhing tentacles of his
opponents Kinnison perceived little by little the full picture of that
unbelievable monstrosity: and, accustomed as he was to the outlandish denizens
of worlds scarcely known to man, his very senses reeled.

As the quasi-reptilian organism descended the cliff-dwellers went mad. Their
attack upon the two Patrolmen, already vicious, became insanely frantic.
Abandoning the gigantic Dutchman entirely, every Catlat within reach threw
himself upon Kinnison and so enwrapped the Lensman's head, arms, and torso that
he could scarcely move a muscle. Then entwining captors and helpless man moved
slowly toward the largest of the openings in the cliff's obsidian face.
Upon that slowly moving mass vanBuskirk hurled himself, deadly space-axe
swinging. But, hew and smite as he would, he could neither free his chief from
the grisly horde enveloping him nor impede measurably that horde's progress toward its goal. However, he could and did cut away the comparatively few cables
confining Kinnison's legs.

"Clamp a leg-lock around my waist, Kim," he directed, the flashing thought in no
whit interfering with his prodigious axe-play, "and as soon as I get a chance,
before the real tussle comes, I'll couple us together with all the belt-snaps I
can reach--wherever we're going we're going together! Wonder why they haven't
ganged up on me, too, and what that lizard is doing? Been too busy to look, but
thought he'd've been on my back before this."

"He won't be on your back. That's Worsel, the lad who answered my call. I told
you his voice was funny? They can't talk or hear--use telepathy, like the
Manarkans. He's cleaning them out in great shape. If you can hold me for three
minutes he'll have the lot of them whipped."

"I can hold you for three minutes against all the vermin between here and
Andromeda," vanBuskirk declared. "There, I've got four snaps on you."

"Not too tight, Bus," Kinnison cautioned. "Leave enough slack so you can cut me
loose if you have to. Remember that the spools are more important than any one
of us. Once inside that cliff we'll be all washed up--even Worsel can't help us there--so drop me rather than go in yourself."

"Um," grunted the Dutchman, non-committally. "There, I've tossed my spool out
onto the ground. Tell Worsel that if they get us he's to pick it up and carry
on. We'll go ahead with yours, inside the cliff if necessary."

"I said cut me loose if you can't hold me!" Kinnison snapped, "and I meant it.
That's an official order. Remember it!"

"Official order be damned!" snorted vanBuskirk, still plying his ponderous mace.
"They won't get you into that hole without breaking me in two, and that will be a job of breaking in anybody's language. Now shut your pan," he concluded
grimly. "We're here,and I'm going to be too busy, even to think, very shortly."
He spoke truly. He had already selected his point of resistance, and as he
reached it he thrust the head of his mace into the crack behind the open trap-
door, jammed its shaft into the shoulder-socket of his armor, set blocky legs
and Herculean arms against the cliffside, arched his mighty back, and held. And
the surprised Catlats, now inside the gloomy fastness of their tunnel, thrust
anchoring tentacles into crevices in the wall and pulled; harder, ever harder.
Under the terrific stress Kinnison's heavy armor creaked as its air-tight joints
accommodated themselves to their new and unusual positions. That armor, of
space-tempered alloy, of course would not give way--but what of its anchor?
Well it was for Kimball Kinnison that day, and well for our present
civilization, that the Brittania's quartermaster had selected Peter vanBuskirk
for the Lensman's mate; for death, inevitable and horrible, resided within that
cliff, and no human frame of Earthly growth, however armored, could have borne for even a fraction of a second the violence of the Catlats' pull.

But Peter vanBuskirk, although of Earthly-Dutch ancestry, had been born and
reared upon the planet Valeria, and that massive planet's gravity--over two and
one-half times Earth's--had given him a physique and a strength almost
inconceivable to us life-long dwellers upon small, green Terra. His head, as has
been said, towered seventy-eight inches above the ground; but at that he
appeared squatty because of his enormous spread of shoulder and his startling
girth. His bones were elephantine--they had to be, to furnish adequate support
and leverage for the incredible masses of muscle overlaying and surrounding
them. But even vanBuskirk's Valerian strength was now being taxed to the
uttermost.

The anchoring chains hummed and snarled as the clamps bit into the rings.
Muscles writhed and knotted, tendons stretched and threatened to snap; sweat
rolled down his mighty back. His jaws locked in agony and his eyes started from
their sockets with the effort; but still vanBuskirk held.

"Cut me loose!" commanded Kinnison at last. "Even you can't take much more of
that. No use letting them break your back.... Cut, I tell you.... I said CUT,
you big, dumb, Valerian ape!"

But if vanBuskirk heard or felt the savagely-voiced commands of his chief he
gave no heed. Straining to the very ultimate fiber of his being, exerting every
iota of loyal mind and every atom of Brobdingnagian frame: grimly, tenaciously,
stubbornly the gigantic Dutchman held.

Held while Worsel of Velantia, that grotesquely hideous, that fantastically
reptilian ally, plowed toward the two Patrolmen through the horde of Catlats;
a veritable tornado of rending fang and shearing talon, of beating wing and
crushing snout, of mailed hand and trenchant tail:

Held while that demon incarnate drove closer and closer, hurling entire Catlats
and numberless dismembered fragments of Catlats to the four winds as he came:

Held until Worsel's snake-like body, a supple and sentient cable of living
steel, tipped with its double-edged, razor-keen, scimitar-like sting, slipped
into the tunnel beside Kinnison and wrought grisly havoc among the Catlats
close-packed there!

As the terrific tension upon him was suddenly released vanBuskirk's own efforts
hurled him away from the cliff. He fell to the ground, his overstrained muscles
twitching uncontrollably, and on top of him fell the fettered Lensman. Kinnison,
his hands now free, unfastened the clamps linking his armor to that of
vanBuskirk and whirled to confront the foe--but the fighting was over. The
Catlats had had enough of Worsel of Velantia; and, screaming and shrieking in
baffled rage, the last of them were disappearing into their caves.

As shown in this battle, Worsel is much more capable physically even than
both armored humans together, as formidable as vanBuskirk is.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 21:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
So would I. If my whole life had been different and I had gone
into filmmaking ....

[Well, *first* I would have taken LotR away from Peter Jackson
and done it *right*, but after that ....]

... then my primary problem would be dealing with the fans who
wanted the films to be released in internal chronological order,
beginning with _Triplanetary_, as (vehementaly) opposed to those
who wanted them to be released in order of original publication,
beginning with _Galactic Patrol._ :)

FWIW, I'd be in the first camp, and the second camp could simply
wait until _GP_ came out.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
m***@sky.com
2019-07-31 04:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by David Johnston
Post by Johnny1A
Lensman (any of them).
You could make a wonderful movie out of Lensman.
Agreed ... Alas, it's also possible to make a horrible reeking
abomination out of Lensman. (Like that anime botch.)
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
So would I. If my whole life had been different and I had gone
into filmmaking ....
[Well, *first* I would have taken LotR away from Peter Jackson
and done it *right*, but after that ....]
... then my primary problem would be dealing with the fans who
wanted the films to be released in internal chronological order,
beginning with _Triplanetary_, as (vehementaly) opposed to those
who wanted them to be released in order of original publication,
beginning with _Galactic Patrol._ :)
FWIW, I'd be in the first camp, and the second camp could simply
wait until _GP_ came out.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Surely you are also old enough to remember when the popular stereotype of actors and movie types was not that of demigods and role models but of people whose skills made them fundamentally untrustworthy. It seems clear from multiple sources (e.g. The West Wing Weekly podcast) that at the very least careers in the industry are built on personal relationships rather than a process tuned to select and nurture talent. James Garner's lawsuits against Universal Studios provide evidence of so-called creative accountancy. Then there are the MeToo claims of "Director's Rights Respected"

I think, if you had gone into filmmaking, you would have been told "if you want creative control - write a novel!" - and if the political claim of "it's not the fault of the people, it's the fault of the system" is true anywhere, it's true in Hollywood.
Mike Van Pelt
2019-07-31 17:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Mike Van Pelt
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
So would I. If my whole life had been different and I had gone
into filmmaking ....
...
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
... then my primary problem would be dealing with the fans who
wanted the films to be released in internal chronological order,
beginning with _Triplanetary_, as (vehementaly) opposed to those
who wanted them to be released in order of original publication,
beginning with _Galactic Patrol._ :)
Well, there's always going to be a contingent of fans who
want it to have been done differently. (See the differences
of opinions on LotR.)

Me, either order, probably. There's good arguments for each.
But I think I wouldn't include _Triplanetary_ in it, if doing it
in book publication order. Much of it was an unrelated story
shoe-horned in to fit the Lensman story, sort of. The Nevians
should have showed up again somewhere, otherwise.

Though *original* publication order, as appeared in the magazine
serials, was the "beginning with _Galactic Patrol_" order.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-31 18:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Mike Van Pelt
But Lensman done right... I'd love to see that.
So would I. If my whole life had been different and I had gone
into filmmaking ....
...
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
... then my primary problem would be dealing with the fans who
wanted the films to be released in internal chronological order,
beginning with _Triplanetary_, as (vehementaly) opposed to those
who wanted them to be released in order of original publication,
beginning with _Galactic Patrol._ :)
Well, there's always going to be a contingent of fans who
want it to have been done differently. (See the differences
of opinions on LotR.)
Me, either order, probably. There's good arguments for each.
But I think I wouldn't include _Triplanetary_ in it, if doing it
in book publication order. Much of it was an unrelated story
shoe-horned in to fit the Lensman story, sort of. The Nevians
should have showed up again somewhere, otherwise.
Though *original* publication order, as appeared in the magazine
serials, was the "beginning with _Galactic Patrol_" order.
Yes, I know. But given the opportunity, I would still probably
do _Triplanetary_ first, nudging it a bit here and there to make
it more coherent.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Scott Lurndal
2019-07-30 12:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
Any of the Harry Dresden stories.
Which did have a short-lived TV series.
Garrett Wollman
2019-07-29 22:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
I generally don't approve of film adaptations of any books that I
like, but it occurred to me that you could do a serviceable job with
THE MARCH NORTH. But Hollywood would completely lose the political
point and just turn it into a CGI fantasy battle movie.

Martha Wells's ALL SYSTEMS RED might be a more plausible candidate,
has enough action to satisfy any producer, and might actually make the
setting interesting to me. (My Hugo reading for this year foundered
on ARTIFICIAL CONDITION and it took me a while to realize what was
going on -- I love Murderbot's voice, but the interstellar corporate
dystopia is just not my thing.)

I hear about Diane Duane's Young Wizards series getting optioned from
time to time, never with any actual production resulting, and I would
not personally be able to watch the result.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 00:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
I generally don't approve of film adaptations of any books that I
like, but it occurred to me that you could do a serviceable job with
THE MARCH NORTH. But Hollywood would completely lose the political
point and just turn it into a CGI fantasy battle movie.
They'd have to cut a lot. But as long as they left in the speech
the Captain makes to the few surviving enemy, to the effect that
as long as they think women can be bought or won, they will have
no place in the Commonweal.

(I have just discovered that my copies of all Graydon's books
have disappeared from Google Play, what the hell? I will have to
look into this.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2019-07-30 11:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I have just discovered that my copies of all Graydon's books
have disappeared from Google Play, what the hell? I will have to
look into this.)
Mine are still all there, so if you don't resolve the problem and didn't
already take backups locally hit me up for copies.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research
to finding a cure for jerks." -- Calvin/Bill Watterson
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 13:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
(I have just discovered that my copies of all Graydon's books
have disappeared from Google Play, what the hell? I will have to
look into this.)
Mine are still all there, so if you don't resolve the problem and didn't
already take backups locally hit me up for copies.
Cheers - Jaimie
Thank you; I may take you up on that. How would you make local
backups of something on Google Play?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 16:44:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Mine are still all there, so if you don't resolve the problem and didn't
already take backups locally hit me up for copies.
Thank you; I may take you up on that. How would you make local
backups of something on Google Play?
Graydon's books are all sold DRM-free so you can just download them.
(There's an option in the menu, "Download EPUB".) That's how I get
them into my reader, since I don't use Google's.
Where do you find that option? Not on Google Books, apparently,
or else I am just being (typically) obtuse in searching for it.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Garrett Wollman
2019-07-30 17:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Graydon's books are all sold DRM-free so you can just download them.
(There's an option in the menu, "Download EPUB".) That's how I get
them into my reader, since I don't use Google's.
Where do you find that option? Not on Google Books, apparently,
or else I am just being (typically) obtuse in searching for it.
If you're looking at the library view, where each book is shown as a
tile with the cover image on it, there's a "hamburger" menu in the
bottom right corner of each tile. The last item in that menu is
"Download EPUB" if the author allows it.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 17:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Graydon's books are all sold DRM-free so you can just download them.
(There's an option in the menu, "Download EPUB".) That's how I get
them into my reader, since I don't use Google's.
Where do you find that option? Not on Google Books, apparently,
or else I am just being (typically) obtuse in searching for it.
If you're looking at the library view, where each book is shown as a
tile with the cover image on it, there's a "hamburger" menu in the
bottom right corner of each tile. The last item in that menu is
"Download EPUB" if the author allows it.
Hmmm. I'm looking at the Google Play window, which I have
bookmarked. There's a heading "My books," subset Ebooks. It's
*empty,* except for a label saying "Start your collection. From
romance to superheroes to Thai cuisine, we have tons of books for
all your interests." I *used* to have the images of all four books
on it; now I only have the image of volume 4, _Under One Banner,_
under a different bookmark. And I can't open it, it seems to be
only an image.

Note that clicking on the vol. 4 "tile" anywhere doesn't bring up
anything.

I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.

*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2019-07-30 19:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.

Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there? Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?

I have no idea on how to get any help from Google on this.

If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Now there sits a man with an open mind. You can feel the draft from here."
- Groucho Marx
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 21:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.
That's where I am, and it shows me nothing.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there?
It says "Purchases (0)."
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?
I don't have a purple circle, I have a green circle with a
capital D in it, which is what the browswer uses to identify me
since I don't have any silly pictures to put there.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.
However, I got your email, and Dropbox has all the books, and as
soon as Hal gets off his forum/game/whatever he's occupied with
atm, I'll ask him how to download them into Calibre.

And thanks again.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-30 21:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.
That's where I am, and it shows me nothing.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there?
It says "Purchases (0)."
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?
I don't have a purple circle, I have a green circle with a
capital D in it, which is what the browswer uses to identify me
since I don't have any silly pictures to put there.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.
However, I got your email, and Dropbox has all the books, and as
soon as Hal gets off his forum/game/whatever he's occupied with
atm, I'll ask him how to download them into Calibre.
And thanks again.
And! He got off his computer and onto mine and downloaded them
all, and now I have them on Calibre in a form that Google Play
can't suddenly decide to erase ... IF that's what happened. I
still remember the time Amazon discovered/decided that they
didn't have publication rights to _1984_ and erased it off
everybody's Kindles without so much as a by-your-leave. But
now I have all Graydon's books on *my* disk, and nobody can
take them back. Thanks for at least the third time, Jamie.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2019-07-30 23:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
And! He got off his computer and onto mine and downloaded them
all, and now I have them on Calibre in a form that Google Play
can't suddenly decide to erase ... IF that's what happened. I
still remember the time Amazon discovered/decided that they
didn't have publication rights to _1984_ and erased it off
everybody's Kindles without so much as a by-your-leave. But
now I have all Graydon's books on *my* disk, and nobody can
take them back. Thanks for at least the third time, Jamie.
De nada!

Cheers - Jaimie
--
A Jesus of mass J travelling at a speed of 27 meters/second collides with a
stationary Moses of mass M. Assuming any elastic deformation is lossless and
perfectly reversible, calculate how long it will be until the next Passover.
-- Tanuki, asr
Magewolf
2019-07-31 01:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.
That's where I am, and it shows me nothing.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there?
It says "Purchases (0)."
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?
I don't have a purple circle, I have a green circle with a
capital D in it, which is what the browswer uses to identify me
since I don't have any silly pictures to put there.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.
However, I got your email, and Dropbox has all the books, and as
soon as Hal gets off his forum/game/whatever he's occupied with
atm, I'll ask him how to download them into Calibre.
And thanks again.
You might go into your account and look in your purchase history. That
is where I found mine and then I clicked the show in library off then
back on to get them to show up. That might help you.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-31 01:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.
That's where I am, and it shows me nothing.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there?
It says "Purchases (0)."
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?
I don't have a purple circle, I have a green circle with a
capital D in it, which is what the browswer uses to identify me
since I don't have any silly pictures to put there.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.
However, I got your email, and Dropbox has all the books, and as
soon as Hal gets off his forum/game/whatever he's occupied with
atm, I'll ask him how to download them into Calibre.
And thanks again.
You might go into your account and look in your purchase history. That
is where I found mine and then I clicked the show in library off then
back on to get them to show up. That might help you.
Hmmm. I went to the page and clicked on "Account," and the only
thing it said was "Rewards: no rewards at this time." No
purchase history at all. I did find the five books I bought
under "Order History." But clicking on the titles got no
results. Nothing labeled "show in library" that I could click on
or off.

Do books "bought" from Google Play expire after a period of time?
Hal remarked, in the course of all this, "You aren't really buying
anything from them, you're just leasing them."

It's interesting, though, that they all disappeared at once, from
_The March North_, which I "bought" in December 2014, to _Under One
Banner_, which I "bought" in August 2018. So it would seem that
there's no standard expiration date for each "purchase," but that
somebody or some subroutine decided to vanish them all at once.

But what with one thing and another, one being that I think I've
been deceived, and the other being that it appears I can get
Graydon's books from Dropbox, I think Google Play will see me no
more.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Magewolf
2019-07-31 16:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Magewolf
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm reluctant to bug Graydon at this stage, since his influence
on what GP does is probably infinitesimal.
I wouldn't expect any - he could send you the epubs though!
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
*Should* I be looking at Google Play at all? Should I be looking
somewhere entirely different?
https://play.google.com/books , click "My Books" or "Purchases" on the
left, and click the eBooks "tab" under the search field rather than
audiobooks, and it should show all your books.
That's where I am, and it shows me nothing.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Does it have a "Purchases (number)" on the left there?
It says "Purchases (0)."
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Are you
definitely logged in as the right account (purple circle, top right)?
I don't have a purple circle, I have a green circle with a
capital D in it, which is what the browswer uses to identify me
since I don't have any silly pictures to put there.
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
If you find them, each book shown has a vertical ellipsis on the lower
right, which is the menu - left-click it and "download epub" would be
where to get a local copy.
However, I got your email, and Dropbox has all the books, and as
soon as Hal gets off his forum/game/whatever he's occupied with
atm, I'll ask him how to download them into Calibre.
And thanks again.
You might go into your account and look in your purchase history. That
is where I found mine and then I clicked the show in library off then
back on to get them to show up. That might help you.
Hmmm. I went to the page and clicked on "Account," and the only
thing it said was "Rewards: no rewards at this time." No
purchase history at all. I did find the five books I bought
under "Order History." But clicking on the titles got no
results. Nothing labeled "show in library" that I could click on
or off.
Do books "bought" from Google Play expire after a period of time?
Hal remarked, in the course of all this, "You aren't really buying
anything from them, you're just leasing them."
It's interesting, though, that they all disappeared at once, from
_The March North_, which I "bought" in December 2014, to _Under One
Banner_, which I "bought" in August 2018. So it would seem that
there's no standard expiration date for each "purchase," but that
somebody or some subroutine decided to vanish them all at once.
But what with one thing and another, one being that I think I've
been deceived, and the other being that it appears I can get
Graydon's books from Dropbox, I think Google Play will see me no
more.
In order history there should be three little dots on the far right of
each line that opens a menu with the show in library option. If you want
to still deal with it that might help. I think that it is just that
they messed around with how the library is populated. Since you are
still listed as owning the books, are only able to buy them as a gift on
the books pages, and you can read the books directly from your order
history they have not taken away your paid for books. They have just
made it harder to find them.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-07-31 18:55:24 UTC
Permalink
In article <qhsg3f$fet$***@dont-email.me>, Magewolf <***@nc.rr.com> wrote:
[Google Play vs. Dorothy, chapter XXVIII]
Post by Magewolf
In order history there should be three little dots on the far right of
each line that opens a menu with the show in library option. If you want
to still deal with it that might help. I think that it is just that
they messed around with how the library is populated. Since you are
still listed as owning the books, are only able to buy them as a gift on
the books pages, and you can read the books directly from your order
history they have not taken away your paid for books. They have just
made it harder to find them.
Okay, that actually worked, and by experimental clicking I was
able to open _Safely You Deliver._

Still, damn sneaky of them not to explain.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Magewolf
2019-07-30 17:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
I generally don't approve of film adaptations of any books that I
like, but it occurred to me that you could do a serviceable job with
THE MARCH NORTH. But Hollywood would completely lose the political
point and just turn it into a CGI fantasy battle movie.
They'd have to cut a lot. But as long as they left in the speech
the Captain makes to the few surviving enemy, to the effect that
as long as they think women can be bought or won, they will have
no place in the Commonweal.
(I have just discovered that my copies of all Graydon's books
have disappeared from Google Play, what the hell? I will have to
look into this.)
I just checked mine and they are all there.
Magewolf
2019-07-30 18:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
I generally don't approve of film adaptations of any books that I
like, but it occurred to me that you could do a serviceable job with
THE MARCH NORTH.  But Hollywood would completely lose the political
point and just turn it into a CGI fantasy battle movie.
They'd have to cut a lot.  But as long as they left in the speech
the Captain makes to the few surviving enemy, to the effect that
as long as they think women can be bought or won, they will have
no place in the Commonweal.
(I have just discovered that my copies of all Graydon's books
have disappeared from Google Play, what the hell?  I will have to
look into this.)
I just checked mine and they are all there.
Actually after more checking mine were not showing up in my library. I
checked from my order history the first time. So I clicked on the menu
of each of them and clicked on the "showing in library button" clicked
yes when it asked if I did not want them to show in library then went
back and clicked again and said I did want them to show in library. And
now they are showing up in my library so that might help you.
h***@gmail.com
2019-07-31 05:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
What book should absolutely not have a movie adaptation?
David Johnston
Answered 10h ago
Anathem by Neal Stephenson. It’s huge, it’s filled with words that
aren’t words, and it revolves around “the philosophical debate between
Platonic realism and nominalism.” Oh yeah, that would put butts in seats.
Ghost and it's sequels by John Ringo
anything by Kratzman
* of Gor
Moriarty
2019-07-31 05:18:29 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 3:09:46 PM UTC+10, ***@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>
Post by h***@gmail.com
* of Gor
Two of those exist. They're not very good, which should surprise no-one.

-Moriarty
J. Clarke
2019-07-31 05:47:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:18:29 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
Post by h***@gmail.com
* of Gor
Two of those exist. They're not very good, which should surprise no-one.
The thing is though, they could have been Shakespeare and still not
have been very good--they were just shoddy examples of film-making.

A serious effort might have done quite well--look at 50 Shades.
Note--I'm not saying it would be _good_, but it could have made a lot
of money.
Loading...