Discussion:
xkcd: Appendicitis
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-09 18:00:17 UTC
Permalink
xkcd: Appendicitis
https://www.xkcd.com/2147/

The doctor had me at zapping my body with energy beams. Victory with
the sword was over the top.

Explained at:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2147:_Appendicitis

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-09 19:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Appendicitis
https://www.xkcd.com/2147/
The doctor had me at zapping my body with energy beams. Victory with
the sword was over the top.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2147:_Appendicitis
Dear me, that's approximately the situation I'm in. I've had
high parathyroid hormone levels for some time, which encourages
my osteoporosis, which does not need exaggerating, thanks.

I've had multiple sonograms and CT scans with technetium, which
in the first go-round revealed one parathyroid with an adenoma:
benign, but putting out way too much hormone. That was removed
by a very skilled surgeon, and for a while the parathyroid level
went back to normal.

Then it went back up again. The surgeon said to my
endocrinologist, who's been masterminding all these processes,
"Sometimes it happens that a patient has more than one." On the
other hand, she said to me, "Sometimes when one parathyroid is
removed, the other three go into shock and cringe into the
background for a while. And then sometimes they regain their
confidence and make a comeback."

So she sent me to have a four-dimensional (the fourth dimension,
of course, being time) CT scan with a different tracer.

The results came back very inconclusive. The endocrinologist has
now sent me to a [para]thyroid specialist, whom I'll see in July.

I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
down the spine.

But I have reason to know that my endocrinologist is just about
as good as you can get, so here's hoping it's something stupid
and manageable.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-10 00:03:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Appendicitis
https://www.xkcd.com/2147/
The doctor had me at zapping my body with energy beams. Victory with
the sword was over the top.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2147:_Appendicitis
Dear me, that's approximately the situation I'm in. I've had
high parathyroid hormone levels for some time, which encourages
my osteoporosis, which does not need exaggerating, thanks.
I've had multiple sonograms and CT scans with technetium, which
benign, but putting out way too much hormone. That was removed
by a very skilled surgeon, and for a while the parathyroid level
went back to normal.
Then it went back up again. The surgeon said to my
endocrinologist, who's been masterminding all these processes,
"Sometimes it happens that a patient has more than one." On the
other hand, she said to me, "Sometimes when one parathyroid is
removed, the other three go into shock and cringe into the
background for a while. And then sometimes they regain their
confidence and make a comeback."
So she sent me to have a four-dimensional (the fourth dimension,
of course, being time) CT scan with a different tracer.
The results came back very inconclusive. The endocrinologist has
now sent me to a [para]thyroid specialist, whom I'll see in July.
I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
down the spine.
But I have reason to know that my endocrinologist is just about
as good as you can get, so here's hoping it's something stupid
and manageable.
My wife is taking our 32 year old daughter (disabled who lives with us)
to a hematologist next week. Her iron in her blood has dropped to 7.4
over the last 12 months despite large amounts of iron supplements.
Supposedly at 7.0, she will need regular blood transfusions in order to
breathe. With her myriad issues, our daughter had her entire thyroid
removed for her 18th birthday to start this mess. We had no idea at the
time that she had Lyme disease which is a known thyroid killer. And
yes, the O-word has been mentioned about my daughter.

Good luck on your issues, they sound complex. My 77 year old mother has
been in the hospital for five weeks now for a routine hip replacement
surgery that went so bad that they pulled the implant last Monday. She
is literally freaking out and wondering what her future will look like.
Those two canes she was using now look much better than a wheelchair.

I maintain that if 10% of the population is sick, the other 90% will
spend 100% of their time taking care of them.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2019-05-10 00:31:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 May 2019 19:03:19 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Appendicitis
https://www.xkcd.com/2147/
The doctor had me at zapping my body with energy beams. Victory with
the sword was over the top.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2147:_Appendicitis
Dear me, that's approximately the situation I'm in. I've had
high parathyroid hormone levels for some time, which encourages
my osteoporosis, which does not need exaggerating, thanks.
I've had multiple sonograms and CT scans with technetium, which
benign, but putting out way too much hormone. That was removed
by a very skilled surgeon, and for a while the parathyroid level
went back to normal.
Then it went back up again. The surgeon said to my
endocrinologist, who's been masterminding all these processes,
"Sometimes it happens that a patient has more than one." On the
other hand, she said to me, "Sometimes when one parathyroid is
removed, the other three go into shock and cringe into the
background for a while. And then sometimes they regain their
confidence and make a comeback."
So she sent me to have a four-dimensional (the fourth dimension,
of course, being time) CT scan with a different tracer.
The results came back very inconclusive. The endocrinologist has
now sent me to a [para]thyroid specialist, whom I'll see in July.
I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
down the spine.
But I have reason to know that my endocrinologist is just about
as good as you can get, so here's hoping it's something stupid
and manageable.
My wife is taking our 32 year old daughter (disabled who lives with us)
to a hematologist next week. Her iron in her blood has dropped to 7.4
over the last 12 months despite large amounts of iron supplements.
Supposedly at 7.0, she will need regular blood transfusions in order to
breathe. With her myriad issues, our daughter had her entire thyroid
removed for her 18th birthday to start this mess. We had no idea at the
time that she had Lyme disease which is a known thyroid killer. And
yes, the O-word has been mentioned about my daughter.
Good luck on your issues, they sound complex. My 77 year old mother has
been in the hospital for five weeks now for a routine hip replacement
surgery that went so bad that they pulled the implant last Monday. She
is literally freaking out and wondering what her future will look like.
Those two canes she was using now look much better than a wheelchair.
I maintain that if 10% of the population is sick, the other 90% will
spend 100% of their time taking care of them.
Flashing on a friend of mine who shows rather unpleasant symptoms
which are consistent with Lyme disease, including the thyroid
problems, but she goes ballistic whenever I mention it, like I've
spoken blasphemy or something, even though (a) a negative test for it
isn't necessarily conclusive and (b) she doesn't seem to have ever
been tested anyway. In her case I finally figured out that she would
rather wallow in misery than step out of her discomfort zone.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 00:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Flashing on a friend of mine who shows rather unpleasant symptoms
which are consistent with Lyme disease, including the thyroid
problems, but she goes ballistic whenever I mention it, like I've
spoken blasphemy or something, even though (a) a negative test for it
isn't necessarily conclusive and (b) she doesn't seem to have ever
been tested anyway. In her case I finally figured out that she would
rather wallow in misery than step out of her discomfort zone.
So for her, misery is more desirable than discomfort. She may
have different definitions for both those nouns than some of the
rest of us.

But there are many people who might have some ailment or other
who, perhaps, are not suffering physically, but worry like hell
whether they *might* have a given ailment, and would rather worry
about it indefinitely than go to a doctor and find out for sure.
A woman who's found a lump in her breast and hopes that if she
ignores it hard enough, is the classic example.

The question of whether any person should have complete control
over his/her/etc. health/disease is currently being fought out in
the department of immunology. I'm sure you all saw about how the
kid in Kentucky who sued the school district because they barred
him from classes for being unvaccinated for chicken pox ... is
now down with chicken pox.

Of course, once he's recovered he will be immune anyway.

I had chicken pox at *nineteen*. It was a large dose of no fun
whatever. There were, of course, no vaccines for it in 1963. If
there had been I would have gone to Cowell Hospital (University
student health center) and gotten them. As it is, I wound up in
Cowell anyway, in strict isolation for a week.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jay E. Morris
2019-05-10 02:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Flashing on a friend of mine who shows rather unpleasant symptoms
which are consistent with Lyme disease, including the thyroid
problems, but she goes ballistic whenever I mention it, like I've
spoken blasphemy or something, even though (a) a negative test for it
isn't necessarily conclusive and (b) she doesn't seem to have ever
been tested anyway. In her case I finally figured out that she would
rather wallow in misery than step out of her discomfort zone.
So for her, misery is more desirable than discomfort. She may
have different definitions for both those nouns than some of the
rest of us.
But there are many people who might have some ailment or other
who, perhaps, are not suffering physically, but worry like hell
whether they *might* have a given ailment, and would rather worry
about it indefinitely than go to a doctor and find out for sure.
A woman who's found a lump in her breast and hopes that if she
ignores it hard enough, is the classic example.
My mother-in-law, who had not gone to a doctor in 39 years, since her
last child was born, until the baseball size lump in her breast burst.

Because if you go to the doctor, they *will* find something wrong with you.
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-05-10 04:36:01 UTC
Permalink
On 10/05/2019 10:53, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
[SNIP]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of course, once he's recovered he will be immune anyway.
I had chicken pox at *nineteen*. It was a large dose of no fun
whatever. There were, of course, no vaccines for it in 1963. If
Snap! Nor where there in 1980, at least here in Oz.

My worst memory of it is of being at home, when a mate (who'd had it)
came over in the arvo, and the telly was on, showng a kid's program
called "Shirl's Neighbourhood" (Shirley is a bloke, by the way, look up
"Skyhooks (the band)" for more info), and one of the characters was a
'Roo, called Norm, played by a bloke in a 'Roo suit, and Norm, in this
episode, had fleas.

Have you ever tried *not* to scratch when you are itching abominably and
someone in front of you is scratching *everywhere*!!!
Aaaaarrrggghhhh!!! It's torture!!

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 05:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Of course, once he's recovered he will be immune anyway.
I had chicken pox at *nineteen*. It was a large dose of no fun
whatever. There were, of course, no vaccines for it in 1963. If
Snap! Nor where there in 1980, at least here in Oz.
My worst memory of it is of being at home, when a mate (who'd had it)
came over in the arvo, and the telly was on, showng a kid's program
called "Shirl's Neighbourhood" (Shirley is a bloke, by the way, look up
"Skyhooks (the band)" for more info), and one of the characters was a
'Roo, called Norm, played by a bloke in a 'Roo suit, and Norm, in this
episode, had fleas.
Have you ever tried *not* to scratch when you are itching abominably and
someone in front of you is scratching *everywhere*!!!
Aaaaarrrggghhhh!!! It's torture!!
Curiously enough, I didn't itch that badly. I had just come back
to Berkeley from Easter vacation (they were still calling it that
in the sixties), where I had visited a friend whose two young
children had *supposedly just gotten over* chicken pox. Alas,
they were still shedding.

I forget what the incubation period for chicken pox is, but after
a week or so I started feeling just Godawful. Feverish, achy,
weak, and all I could think was, "Dammit, I've got mono and I
haven't even been kissing anybody!"

On the third day or so, I noticed this little blister on my arm.
I called in the housemother, who was a business college student,
a farmer's daughter from Amador County (for those who don't know
California, that's way up in the northern sticks) who took no
guff from anybody. She took one look and said, "Chicken pox."
And organized somebody with a car to take me up to Cowell, where
(as I said upthread) I spent a week or so in strict isolation,
seeing nobody but medical personnel and one faculty wife whose
good works included visiting sick students. I still have one
large (peppercorn-sized) pock scar on the bridge of my nose.

Our children, born in the mid-70s, also picked up chicken pox,
but at least they weren't nineteen at the time. By the time they
had children of their own, they were fanatical about getting them
immunized for everything on schedule as recommended by the
pediatrician.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
f***@gmail.com
2019-05-10 06:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi all

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 3:05:02 AM UTC+2, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
<<much snipped>>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I had chicken pox at *nineteen*. It was a large dose of no fun
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox. Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor told me). Never had it, every time the pox is doing the rounds I come in contact with a single sufferer and the next thing everyone around me who is without immunity is breaking out in spots.

During every outbreak throughout my entire pre-teen childhood parents either wanted me around their kids, or wanted me to stay well away. As I understand it, in one particular town where my family lived, my parents could have made a small fortune by renting my infectious presence out to parents who wanted their children to come down with the pox. During 'pox' season I got invited to all the birthday parties. Outside of 'pox season' not so much.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
whatever. There were, of course, no vaccines for it in 1963. If
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two weeks?

<<snipped>>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Regards
Frank
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 12:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@gmail.com
Hi all
<<much snipped>>
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I had chicken pox at *nineteen*. It was a large dose of no fun
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox.
Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor
told me). Never had it, every time the pox is doing the rounds I come in
contact with a single sufferer and the next thing everyone around me who
is without immunity is breaking out in spots.
During every outbreak throughout my entire pre-teen childhood parents
either wanted me around their kids, or wanted me to stay well away. As I
understand it, in one particular town where my family lived, my parents
could have made a small fortune by renting my infectious presence out to
parents who wanted their children to come down with the pox. During
'pox' season I got invited to all the birthday parties. Outside of 'pox
season' not so much.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
whatever. There were, of course, no vaccines for it in 1963. If
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the
mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a
hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a
non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two
weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Carl Fink
2019-05-10 14:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox.
Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor
told me) ...
[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the
mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a
hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a
non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two
weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is agonizingly painful, can cause
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 15:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox.
Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor
told me) ...
[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the
mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a
hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a
non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two
weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox,
By a slightly different variety of the herpes virus, IIRC. There
is a whole family of them. Case in point: I used to get cold
sores around my mouth, not terribly painful but annoying. Then I
got chicken pox. I've never had a cold sore since.

is agonizingly painful, can cause
Post by Carl Fink
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Good idea for him to check with his doctor on this, but yes, it
sounds like a plan.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-05-10 17:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox.
Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor
told me) ...
[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the
mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a
hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a
non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two
weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox,
By a slightly different variety of the herpes virus, IIRC. There
is a whole family of them. Case in point: I used to get cold
sores around my mouth, not terribly painful but annoying. Then I
got chicken pox. I've never had a cold sore since.
is agonizingly painful, can cause
Post by Carl Fink
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Good idea for him to check with his doctor on this, but yes, it
sounds like a plan.
Unless they have finally caught up, the shingles vaccine is in very short
supply. I had to wait two months after my second dose was due before anyone
had it.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Carl Fink
2019-05-10 17:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
By a slightly different variety of the herpes virus, IIRC. There
is a whole family of them. Case in point: I used to get cold
sores around my mouth, not terribly painful but annoying. Then I
got chicken pox. I've never had a cold sore since.
Chickpox is Varicella zoster. Cold sores are a totally different virus.

Shingles is Varicella zoster. The virus becomes dormant inside nerve cells,
very much as HIV becomes dormant inside T cells. Decades later, especially
if you become immunosuppressed, V. zoster reactivates and starts destroying
your nerves.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Garrett Wollman
2019-05-10 17:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
By a slightly different variety of the herpes virus, IIRC. There
is a whole family of them. Case in point: I used to get cold
sores around my mouth, not terribly painful but annoying. Then I
got chicken pox. I've never had a cold sore since.
Chickpox is Varicella zoster. Cold sores are a totally different virus.
Both, however, are in the subfamily Alphaherpesvirinae. In fact, the
internationally accepted nomenclature for the varicella virus is
"Human alphaherpesvirus 3". It shares a common ancestor with HSV-1
and HSV-2. All three spend their latent phase in human neurons (as
opposed to the other human herpesviruses, which hide out in the immune
cells).

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Carl Fink
2019-05-12 22:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
By a slightly different variety of the herpes virus, IIRC. There
is a whole family of them. Case in point: I used to get cold
sores around my mouth, not terribly painful but annoying. Then I
got chicken pox. I've never had a cold sore since.
Chickpox is Varicella zoster. Cold sores are a totally different virus.
Both, however, are in the subfamily Alphaherpesvirinae. In fact, the
internationally accepted nomenclature for the varicella virus is
"Human alphaherpesvirus 3". It shares a common ancestor with HSV-1
and HSV-2. All three spend their latent phase in human neurons (as
opposed to the other human herpesviruses, which hide out in the immune
cells).
My point was that the chicken pox vaccine is not meaningfully cross-reactive
with other herpesviruses, as far as I know. (I hope I'm wrong, since I've
had chicken pox vaccine.)
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-10 16:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
In article
Post by f***@gmail.com
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had
chicken pox. Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's
what the last doctor told me) ...
[snip]
Post by f***@gmail.com
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late
as the mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind
that come in a hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with
renting a non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as
your child for two weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if
you were asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES
VACCINE. Shingles is caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is
agonizingly painful, can cause nerve damage, and is almost
totally preventable. It tends to strike decades after the
initial infection, and the virus that becomes active
specifically infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
And if you get an outbreak near the eyes, it can turn into what's
called the suicide disease, because it's so painful and there's
damned little that can be done once the lidocaine lined mask stops
working.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-10 18:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
People tend to hate me when I say this but: I've never had chicken pox.
Or rather I am a non-symptomatic carrier (that's what the last doctor
told me) ...
[snip]
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by f***@gmail.com
AFAIK there were no effective vaccines in South Africa as late as the
mid-80s. Are there effective vaccines today, the kind that come in a
hypodermic, not the hopeful kind that comes with renting a
non-symptomatic carrier to sleep in the same room as your child for two
weeks?
For chicken pox? You bet there is. That's what the kid in
Kentucky refused to get, and so he now has chicken pox.
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is agonizingly painful, can cause
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Done, I got the shingles vaccine last year. I have not been able to
talk the wife into it yet.

One of my partners got shingles twice while taking chemo for leukemia.
He said that the chemo was nothing compared to the shingles.

Lynn
f***@gmail.com
2019-05-13 06:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,
Post by Carl Fink
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is agonizingly painful, can cause
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Thank you all for reminding me of this. A few years ago my wife and I asked our then-GP about it. He was very much of the opinion that an asymptomatic carrier and someone who had chicken pox as a child were not really at risk for Shingles. His advice: "Wait until you're 40. After that your childhood immunities start to slide."

Since then we've been through a couple of Chickenpox cycles, from which we have been almost completely isolated (as so far as that is possible in a world half-full of children in public spaces).

We are now both passed that milestone (being 40). The conversation just never came up since then (life has been very complicated for a lot of other reasons for a few years now).
Post by Carl Fink
--
Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
I need to find out what it will cost. In theory the vaccine should be one of those things a medical aid (that's what we called Health Insurance / HMOs in South Africa) should pay for yo avoid potential future costs, but sometimes I think South African Medical Aids are making decisions based on how much suffering they can CAUSE.

Thank you all again for scaring me half to death. I needed a wake up call.

Regards
Frank
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-05-13 13:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@gmail.com
Hi all,
Post by Carl Fink
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is agonizingly painful, can cause
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Thank you all for reminding me of this. A few years ago my wife and I asked our then-GP about it. He was very much of the opinion that an asymptomatic carrier and someone who had chicken pox as a child were not really at risk for Shingles. His advice: "Wait until you're 40. After that your childhood immunities start to slide."
Since then we've been through a couple of Chickenpox cycles, from which we have been almost completely isolated (as so far as that is possible in a world half-full of children in public spaces).
We are now both passed that milestone (being 40). The conversation just never came up since then (life has been very complicated for a lot of other reasons for a few years now).
Post by Carl Fink
--
Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
I need to find out what it will cost. In theory the vaccine should be one of those things a medical aid (that's what we called Health Insurance / HMOs in South Africa) should pay for yo avoid potential future costs, but sometimes I think South African Medical Aids are making decisions based on how much suffering they can CAUSE.
Thank you all again for scaring me half to death. I needed a wake up call.
Here in Oz the Shingles vaccine is/wasn't free at the time a friend of
mine had a bout of it. My GP basically said, "I've had shingles, spend
the money," so I did.

One less thing to worry about.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Carl Fink
2019-05-13 13:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Here in Oz the Shingles vaccine is/wasn't free at the time a friend of
mine had a bout of it. My GP basically said, "I've had shingles, spend
the money," so I did.
One less thing to worry about.
IIRC it's an "every 10 years" vaccine.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
J. Clarke
2019-05-14 00:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Here in Oz the Shingles vaccine is/wasn't free at the time a friend of
mine had a bout of it. My GP basically said, "I've had shingles, spend
the money," so I did.
One less thing to worry about.
IIRC it's an "every 10 years" vaccine.
The vaccine currently recommended in the US requires two doses 2-6
months apart and no additional doses.
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-05-14 03:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Here in Oz the Shingles vaccine is/wasn't free at the time a friend of
mine had a bout of it. My GP basically said, "I've had shingles, spend
the money," so I did.
One less thing to worry about.
IIRC it's an "every 10 years" vaccine.
Hmmm, Zostavax, which is the one we use here in Oz, currently has no
specified booster requirements, I presume that it is considered by our
mob as a "one time' vaccination - or perhaps it lasts long enough in the
over-fifties that we'll all be dead before it wears off! ;-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
J. Clarke
2019-05-14 03:13:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 May 2019 13:02:18 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Here in Oz the Shingles vaccine is/wasn't free at the time a friend of
mine had a bout of it. My GP basically said, "I've had shingles, spend
the money," so I did.
One less thing to worry about.
IIRC it's an "every 10 years" vaccine.
Hmmm, Zostavax, which is the one we use here in Oz, currently has no
specified booster requirements, I presume that it is considered by our
mob as a "one time' vaccination - or perhaps it lasts long enough in the
over-fifties that we'll all be dead before it wears off! ;-)
Shingrix is the one my doctor recommended.
f***@gmail.com
2019-05-14 07:05:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi all

The good news is that South Africa does have an approved Shingles vaccine (don't ask me to remember the names). Spoke to a pharmacist yesterday. It's a two shot combo.

The bad news is that it costs a small fortune, more than what a day at a Private hospital might cost you. But from what I hear Shingles is not a one-day affair, and its not something that is treated in the usual wards (i.e.: isolation ward, extra protection for the staff, much more money).

The badder news is that there is no current stock in the country.

The baddest news is that Medical Aids (our version of Health Insurance) usually doesn't pay for it.

The other baddest news is that the South African shortage is apparently a result of an international shortage. The rest of you might still be able to find some stock. It's just Africa that has completely run out.

Regards
Frank
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-05-14 14:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@gmail.com
Hi all
The good news is that South Africa does have an approved Shingles vaccine (don't ask me to remember the names). Spoke to a pharmacist yesterday. It's a two shot combo.
This strongly implies that it is "Shingrix."
Post by f***@gmail.com
The bad news is that it costs a small fortune, more than what a day at a Private hospital might cost you. But from what I hear Shingles is not a one-day affair, and its not something that is treated in the usual wards (i.e.: isolation ward, extra protection for the staff, much more money).
The badder news is that there is no current stock in the country.
The baddest news is that Medical Aids (our version of Health Insurance) usually doesn't pay for it.
The other baddest news is that the South African shortage is apparently a result of an international shortage. The rest of you might still be able to find some stock. It's just Africa that has completely run out.
That's all a bugger :-(

Set up a swear jar on the kitchen counter? When you've built up enough
it might be back in stock???

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-05-14 17:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@gmail.com
Hi all
The good news is that South Africa does have an approved Shingles
vaccine (don't ask me to remember the names). Spoke to a pharmacist
yesterday. It's a two shot combo.
The bad news is that it costs a small fortune, more than what a day at a
Private hospital might cost you. But from what I hear Shingles is not a
one-day affair, and its not something that is treated in the usual wards
(i.e.: isolation ward, extra protection for the staff, much more money).
The badder news is that there is no current stock in the country.
The baddest news is that Medical Aids (our version of Health Insurance)
usually doesn't pay for it.
The other baddest news is that the South African shortage is apparently
a result of an international shortage. The rest of you might still be
able to find some stock. It's just Africa that has completely run out.
Regards
Frank
The two dose Shingrix(sp?) was in very short supply in the US. I had to wait
several months beyond the recommended to get the second dose. It may have
eased up now.

It's an unpleasant shot too: sore for several days afterwards.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2019-05-14 00:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@gmail.com
Hi all,
Post by Carl Fink
Let me add: Frank, if you have had Varicella infection, even if you were
asymptomatic, and you're an adult, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE. Shingles is
caused by the same virus as chicken pox, is agonizingly painful, can cause
nerve damage, and is almost totally preventable. It tends to strike decades
after the initial infection, and the virus that becomes active specifically
infects peripheral nerves. Skip it.
Thank you all for reminding me of this. A few years ago my wife and I asked our then-GP about it. He was very much of the opinion that an asymptomatic carrier and someone who had chicken pox as a child were not really at risk for Shingles. His advice: "Wait until you're 40. After that your childhood immunities start to slide."
Since then we've been through a couple of Chickenpox cycles, from which we have been almost completely isolated (as so far as that is possible in a world half-full of children in public spaces).
We are now both passed that milestone (being 40). The conversation just never came up since then (life has been very complicated for a lot of other reasons for a few years now).
According to my physician someone who had chicken pox as a child is
_more_ at risk for shingles. It's not a matter of "immunity sliding",
it's a matter of virus that has been hiding out for decades deciding
to wake up.
Post by f***@gmail.com
Post by Carl Fink
--
Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
I need to find out what it will cost. In theory the vaccine should be one of those things a medical aid (that's what we called Health Insurance / HMOs in South Africa) should pay for yo avoid potential future costs, but sometimes I think South African Medical Aids are making decisions based on how much suffering they can CAUSE.
Thank you all again for scaring me half to death. I needed a wake up call.
Regards
Frank
Carl Fink
2019-05-14 13:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
According to my physician someone who had chicken pox as a child is
_more_ at risk for shingles. It's not a matter of "immunity sliding",
it's a matter of virus that has been hiding out for decades deciding
to wake up.
Shingles *only* strikes those who have been previously infected with V.
zoster. If someone gets it who never had chicken pox, that means they had a
previous infection that was asymptomatic or so mild they don't remember it.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 00:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
xkcd: Appendicitis
https://www.xkcd.com/2147/
The doctor had me at zapping my body with energy beams. Victory with
the sword was over the top.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2147:_Appendicitis
Dear me, that's approximately the situation I'm in. I've had
high parathyroid hormone levels for some time, which encourages
my osteoporosis, which does not need exaggerating, thanks.
I've had multiple sonograms and CT scans with technetium, which
benign, but putting out way too much hormone. That was removed
by a very skilled surgeon, and for a while the parathyroid level
went back to normal.
Then it went back up again. The surgeon said to my
endocrinologist, who's been masterminding all these processes,
"Sometimes it happens that a patient has more than one." On the
other hand, she said to me, "Sometimes when one parathyroid is
removed, the other three go into shock and cringe into the
background for a while. And then sometimes they regain their
confidence and make a comeback."
So she sent me to have a four-dimensional (the fourth dimension,
of course, being time) CT scan with a different tracer.
The results came back very inconclusive. The endocrinologist has
now sent me to a [para]thyroid specialist, whom I'll see in July.
I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
down the spine.
But I have reason to know that my endocrinologist is just about
as good as you can get, so here's hoping it's something stupid
and manageable.
My wife is taking our 32 year old daughter (disabled who lives with us)
to a hematologist next week. Her iron in her blood has dropped to 7.4
over the last 12 months despite large amounts of iron supplements.
Supposedly at 7.0, she will need regular blood transfusions in order to
breathe. With her myriad issues, our daughter had her entire thyroid
removed for her 18th birthday to start this mess. We had no idea at the
time that she had Lyme disease which is a known thyroid killer. And
yes, the O-word has been mentioned about my daughter.
I assume she's taking thyroid supplements as well as iron?
Post by Lynn McGuire
Good luck on your issues, they sound complex. My 77 year old mother has
been in the hospital for five weeks now for a routine hip replacement
surgery that went so bad that they pulled the implant last Monday. She
is literally freaking out and wondering what her future will look like.
Those two canes she was using now look much better than a wheelchair.
Good luck to your daughter and your mother, too. We all have to
go sometime, but I would *prefer* to live another seven years at
least, by which time my grandson will be 18 and not in need of
daycare.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I maintain that if 10% of the population is sick, the other 90% will
spend 100% of their time taking care of them.
Well, Boston Dynamics and other roboticists are working on robots that
will take some of the load. Good luck to them, too.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-10 00:45:56 UTC
Permalink
On 5/9/2019 7:31 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
...
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Lynn McGuire
My wife is taking our 32 year old daughter (disabled who lives with us)
to a hematologist next week. Her iron in her blood has dropped to 7.4
over the last 12 months despite large amounts of iron supplements.
Supposedly at 7.0, she will need regular blood transfusions in order to
breathe. With her myriad issues, our daughter had her entire thyroid
removed for her 18th birthday to start this mess. We had no idea at the
time that she had Lyme disease which is a known thyroid killer. And
yes, the O-word has been mentioned about my daughter.
I assume she's taking thyroid supplements as well as iron?
Oh yes, the surgeon had to remove both sides of the thyroid. He left
the parathyroid but we are not sure how well it is working. She takes
both Armour and Synthroid.

Lynn
Joy Beeson
2019-06-16 03:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
We all have to
go sometime, but I would *prefer* to live another seven years at
least, by which time my grandson will be 18 and not in need of
daycare.
How are his cooking lessons coming? If my arithmetic is correct, you
have less than two years to make him capable of baking a
thirteenth-birtday cake.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-06-16 05:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
We all have to
go sometime, but I would *prefer* to live another seven years at
least, by which time my grandson will be 18 and not in need of
daycare.
How are his cooking lessons coming? If my arithmetic is correct, you
have less than two years to make him capable of baking a
thirteenth-birtday cake.
I haven't tried teaching him to cook yet, and I don't think his
mother has either. The problem is that (a) I don't really have a
kitchen, I have a laundry room with a microwave, a toaster-oven,
an electric teakettle, and an induction burner which I am not
allowed to use because I have a pacemaker.

(b) The upstairs kitchen has all sorts of gear, including a stove
with an oven, but his father is responsible for keeping the
dishes washed, which he does not do. I would not attempt to bake
anything more complicated up there than an occasional batch of
flaxmeal English muffins which I mix up, and allow to proof,
downstairs.

Is baking your own thirteenth birthday cake a thing now? I never
heard of it ... but then my thirteenth birthday was in (counts on
fingers) 1955, and I don't think we even had a party; we'd just
moved and I didn't know anybody. I've since acquired the opinion
that people who've left elementary school don't need birthday
cakes/parties anyway. Note my daughter does not agree with this;
so she co-sponsors birthday parties for a couple of kids
(including her own) who have birthdays equally close to the same
weekend.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Joy Beeson
2019-06-17 23:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Is baking your own thirteenth birthday cake a thing now? I never
heard of it ... but then my thirteenth birthday was in (counts on
fingers) 1955, and I don't think we even had a party; we'd just
moved and I didn't know anybody.
I believe that it was a coming-of-age rite in the nineteenth century.

At which time bakng a cake would have been a big deal. I was told
that one of my ancestors (or a friend of one of my ancestors) was
renowned for her cakes, and that she made them come out right by
sitting beside the stove and feeding the fire one cob at a time.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I've since acquired the opinion
that people who've left elementary school don't need birthday
cakes/parties anyway. Note my daughter does not agree with this;
so she co-sponsors birthday parties for a couple of kids
(including her own) who have birthdays equally close to the same
weekend.
When my older sister was still compos mentis she had one birthday
party in February for everyone who was born in the winter.

Dave celebrates my birthday by taking me to a restaurant where we've
never been, and I celebrate his by making half a recipe of Brownies
Cockaigne, with the butter and chocolate not halved, and the nuts
tripled. The following day I cut the cake into small pieces and
freeze them, and he rations them out for months.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Kevrob
2019-06-18 00:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Is baking your own thirteenth birthday cake a thing now? I never
heard of it ... but then my thirteenth birthday was in (counts on
fingers) 1955, and I don't think we even had a party; we'd just
moved and I didn't know anybody.
I believe that it was a coming-of-age rite in the nineteenth century.
At which time bakng a cake would have been a big deal. I was told
that one of my ancestors (or a friend of one of my ancestors) was
renowned for her cakes, and that she made them come out right by
sitting beside the stove and feeding the fire one cob at a time.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I've since acquired the opinion
that people who've left elementary school don't need birthday
cakes/parties anyway. Note my daughter does not agree with this;
so she co-sponsors birthday parties for a couple of kids
(including her own) who have birthdays equally close to the same
weekend.
When my older sister was still compos mentis she had one birthday
party in February for everyone who was born in the winter.
Dave celebrates my birthday by taking me to a restaurant where we've
never been, and I celebrate his by making half a recipe of Brownies
Cockaigne, with the butter and chocolate not halved, and the nuts
tripled. The following day I cut the cake into small pieces and
freeze them, and he rations them out for months.
This isn't any "rite of passage" I went through, but a combination
of "things a guy ought to know" my parents taught me:

A young adult, young or old, should be able, health problems aside
that preclude one from eating certain common foods, to visit a
typical food market for the area in which one lives, and emerge
with ingredients of an inexpensive nature that one can make a
nutritious meal from (or two or three..) without resorting to
buying the more expensive prepared foods. One should be a able
to turn a couple of eggs and butter or oil and some bread into
a breakfast, or make a pot of oatmeal. One should be able to
cook a chicken or its parts, or some other inexpensive cut of
meat. One should be able to figure out which vegetables are
good to eat raw, and which you should cook, and when it makes
sense to serve a salad v something like steamed green beans.
If you are going to eat prepared food, have the good sense to
learn how to read a label for the ingredients and and tell
when somethng is a close equivalent of fresh (frozen vegetables
without any sauce) or when they are highly preserved and flavored
in ways that make them less nutritious (some canned veggies that
are merely Sodium Delivery Devices.) In short, How To Keep From
Surviving On Merely Kraft Mac & Cheese or Generic Equivalent
As A Young Adult, Or Wasting All Available Disposable Income On
Overpriced And Often Substandard Pizza. (aka "Bachelor Survival
Cooking.")

When you can use these skills to cook an intimate dinner for
a Lovely Young Lady on a cold winter's evening, then you are
beyond survival. I passed this "test" with broiled lamb
chops, a minimalist rice pilaf and green beans almondine.
I made her favorite cocktail, a kir royale, and had Merlot
to accompany the lamb...and well before "Sideways," if you
please. I would have been about 25 before I attempted this.
One doesn't learn all the skills at once.

I never got around to learning how to butcher a hog, per REH,
though. :)

We had a course in high school, a half-year elective for seniors,
called "Consumer Economics," that covered various life skills,
such as balancing a checkbook and making a household budget. It
was meant for graduating seniors who had never had "business math,"
but had concentrated on college prep for the first 3 years. It
was a gut compared to the othe semester-long electives I took in
sociology, American politics, and the history of Russia and the USSR.
It was useful for those of us who had never taken anything like
home economics. I remember that "restaurant meals" were to be
treated as part of the "entertainment" portion of the monthly
budget. Yoou'd have to be making far more that a typical mid-1970s
college grad could expect to make to "eat out" nearly every night and
still stay solvent.

Easy access to credit cards after graduating did lead to a lot
of us blowing cash we didn't have on such fripperies, a lesson
that was hard learned in many cases.

Kevin R

Carl Fink
2019-05-10 00:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
What do you have against otolaryngologists? I like my own quite a bit.

More seriously, sorry to read about your troubles. I had high parathyroid
hormone briefly as a teen, then it went away and has never returned. No
reason was ever adduced--it certainly wasn't a malignant tumor, this being
40 years ago. Hope it turns out OK.
--
Carl Fink ***@nitpicking.com

Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu
Dedicated to ... Carl Fink!
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-05-10 01:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Fink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I would be more sanguine about all this if it weren't that the
specialist's title on her webpage did not read "Otolaryngologist,
head and neck oncologist, Medical oncologist, Head and neck
specialist." I don't think there's any patient who sees the
O-word (and knows what it means) who doesn't feel a slight shiver
What do you have against otolaryngologists? I like my own quite a bit.
I don't have anything against her. I read her vitae on the
website of the endocrinologist's medical group, and she's one of
the top people in her field(s). I hope and trust that when she
finally gets her hands on me, we'll find out something about my
stupid parathyroid hormones. It's just that the O-word* is
disquieting ... but I have no intention of skipping the
appointment.
Post by Carl Fink
More seriously, sorry to read about your troubles. I had high parathyroid
hormone briefly as a teen, then it went away and has never returned.
You bettah off.
Post by Carl Fink
No
reason was ever adduced--it certainly wasn't a malignant tumor, this being
40 years ago. Hope it turns out OK.
Thanks.

_____
*And I mean the Oncologist word, not the other one.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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