Discussion:
Niven's Organleggers
(too old to reply)
Thomas Koenig
2020-05-24 10:32:28 UTC
Permalink
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.

For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.

There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.

This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.

Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.

On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.

Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.

Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-24 11:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.
For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.
There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.
This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.
Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.
On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.
Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
eBay.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade#Illegal_organ_trade>

"Up to 42% illegally purchased", "difficult to substantiate".

(a frequent problem with Wikipedia)
D B Davis
2020-05-24 15:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Thomas Koenig
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.
For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.
There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.
This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.
Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.
On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.
Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
eBay.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade#Illegal_organ_trade>
"Up to 42% illegally purchased", "difficult to substantiate".
(a frequent problem with Wikipedia)
You more-or-less hit the nail on the head as to how Robin Cook (a modern
day incantation of Canon Doyle) saw things in _Coma_, back of the book,
back in the day:

Author’s Note

This novel was conceived as an entertainment, but it is not
science fiction. Its implications are scary because they are
possible, perhaps even probable. Consider a classified
advertisement that appeared in the San Gabriel (Calif.) Tribune,
May 9, 1968, col. 4:

NEED A TRANSPLANT?

Man will sell any portion of body for financial remuneration
to person needing an operation. Write box 1211-630, Covina.

The advertiser did not specify what organ or organs, or
even whose body they were to come from.
And there have been other advertisements, many others, in
various newspapers across the country. Even specific offers of
the hearts from living people!
As gruesome as these ads sound, they should come as no great
surprise. There are plenty of precedents for the market economy
in medicine. Blood-which may be considered as an organ-is
routinely bought and sold. There is a commerce in semen, which,
while not an organ, is the product of an organ.

_Coma_ uses the Jefferson Institute as a criminal front, a clearinghouse
for black-market human organs:

"He was transferred to the Jefferson Institute in South
Boston."
"What the hell is the Jefferson Institute?"
"It's an intensive care facility built as part of the
area's Health Maintenance Organization design. Supposedly
it's been designed to curtail costs by applying economics
of scale in relation to intensive care. It's privately
run but the government financed construction. The concept
and plans came out of the Harvard-MIT health practices
report." ...
The sign read: "The Jefferson Institute." Below the
blue letters was a brass plaque. It said: "Constructed
with the Support of the Department of Health, Education
and Welfare, US Government, 1974."
The Jefferson Institute was surrounded by an
eight-foot-high hurricane fence. ...
"I know it will sound incredible, but the Jefferson
Institute is a clearinghouse for black-market transplant
organs. Somehow these people get orders for organs with
a specific tissue type. Then whoever runs the show reaches
around in the hospitals here in Boston till they find
patients with the proper type. If it's a surgical patient,
they merely add a little carbon monoxide to his anesthesia.
If it's a medical patient he-or she-gets a shot of
succinylcholine in his I.V. The victim's upper brain is
destroyed. He's a living corpse, but his organs are alive
and warm and happy until they can be taken out by the
butchers at the Institute."

Note.

Dialog tip. Although Cook initially uses "said" to establish dialog, he
forgoes further use after a conversation is started.



Danke,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Peter Trei
2020-05-24 23:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Thomas Koenig
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.
For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.
There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.
This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.
Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.
On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.
Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
eBay.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade#Illegal_organ_trade>
"Up to 42% illegally purchased", "difficult to substantiate".
(a frequent problem with Wikipedia)
You more-or-less hit the nail on the head as to how Robin Cook (a modern
day incantation of Canon Doyle) saw things in _Coma_, back of the book,
Author’s Note
This novel was conceived as an entertainment, but it is not
science fiction. Its implications are scary because they are
possible, perhaps even probable. Consider a classified
advertisement that appeared in the San Gabriel (Calif.) Tribune,
NEED A TRANSPLANT?
Man will sell any portion of body for financial remuneration
to person needing an operation. Write box 1211-630, Covina.
The advertiser did not specify what organ or organs, or
even whose body they were to come from.
And there have been other advertisements, many others, in
various newspapers across the country. Even specific offers of
the hearts from living people!
As gruesome as these ads sound, they should come as no great
surprise. There are plenty of precedents for the market economy
in medicine. Blood-which may be considered as an organ-is
routinely bought and sold. There is a commerce in semen, which,
while not an organ, is the product of an organ.
_Coma_ uses the Jefferson Institute as a criminal front, a clearinghouse
"He was transferred to the Jefferson Institute in South
Boston."
"What the hell is the Jefferson Institute?"
"It's an intensive care facility built as part of the
area's Health Maintenance Organization design. Supposedly
it's been designed to curtail costs by applying economics
of scale in relation to intensive care. It's privately
run but the government financed construction. The concept
and plans came out of the Harvard-MIT health practices
report." ...
The sign read: "The Jefferson Institute." Below the
blue letters was a brass plaque. It said: "Constructed
with the Support of the Department of Health, Education
and Welfare, US Government, 1974."
The Jefferson Institute was surrounded by an
eight-foot-high hurricane fence. ...
"I know it will sound incredible, but the Jefferson
Institute is a clearinghouse for black-market transplant
organs. Somehow these people get orders for organs with
a specific tissue type. Then whoever runs the show reaches
around in the hospitals here in Boston till they find
patients with the proper type. If it's a surgical patient,
they merely add a little carbon monoxide to his anesthesia.
If it's a medical patient he-or she-gets a shot of
succinylcholine in his I.V. The victim's upper brain is
destroyed. He's a living corpse, but his organs are alive
and warm and happy until they can be taken out by the
butchers at the Institute."
Note.
Dialog tip. Although Cook initially uses "said" to establish dialog, he
forgoes further use after a conversation is started.
Iran currently allows healthy people to sell one of their kidneys, for several thousand dollars

https://www.statnews.com/2016/08/25/organ-donation-kidneys-iran/

As a result, there is no waiting list for kidney transplants there.

Pt
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-27 23:33:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Thomas Koenig
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.
For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.
There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.
This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.
Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.
On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.
Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
eBay.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade#Illegal_organ_trade>
"Up to 42% illegally purchased", "difficult to substantiate".
(a frequent problem with Wikipedia)
You more-or-less hit the nail on the head as to how Robin Cook (a modern
day incantation of Canon Doyle) saw things in _Coma_, back of the book,
Author’s Note
This novel was conceived as an entertainment, but it is not
science fiction. Its implications are scary because they are
possible, perhaps even probable. Consider a classified
advertisement that appeared in the San Gabriel (Calif.) Tribune,
NEED A TRANSPLANT?
Man will sell any portion of body for financial remuneration
to person needing an operation. Write box 1211-630, Covina.
The advertiser did not specify what organ or organs, or
even whose body they were to come from.
And there have been other advertisements, many others, in
various newspapers across the country. Even specific offers of
the hearts from living people!
As gruesome as these ads sound, they should come as no great
surprise. There are plenty of precedents for the market economy
in medicine. Blood-which may be considered as an organ-is
routinely bought and sold. There is a commerce in semen, which,
while not an organ, is the product of an organ.
_Coma_ uses the Jefferson Institute as a criminal front, a clearinghouse
"He was transferred to the Jefferson Institute in South
Boston."
"What the hell is the Jefferson Institute?"
"It's an intensive care facility built as part of the
area's Health Maintenance Organization design. Supposedly
it's been designed to curtail costs by applying economics
of scale in relation to intensive care. It's privately
run but the government financed construction. The concept
and plans came out of the Harvard-MIT health practices
report." ...
The sign read: "The Jefferson Institute." Below the
blue letters was a brass plaque. It said: "Constructed
with the Support of the Department of Health, Education
and Welfare, US Government, 1974."
The Jefferson Institute was surrounded by an
eight-foot-high hurricane fence. ...
"I know it will sound incredible, but the Jefferson
Institute is a clearinghouse for black-market transplant
organs. Somehow these people get orders for organs with
a specific tissue type. Then whoever runs the show reaches
around in the hospitals here in Boston till they find
patients with the proper type. If it's a surgical patient,
they merely add a little carbon monoxide to his anesthesia.
If it's a medical patient he-or she-gets a shot of
succinylcholine in his I.V. The victim's upper brain is
destroyed. He's a living corpse, but his organs are alive
and warm and happy until they can be taken out by the
butchers at the Institute."
Note.
Dialog tip. Although Cook initially uses "said" to establish dialog, he
forgoes further use after a conversation is started.
Iran currently allows healthy people to sell one of their kidneys, for several thousand dollars
https://www.statnews.com/2016/08/25/organ-donation-kidneys-iran/
As a result, there is no waiting list for kidney transplants there.
Pt
The problem is, you never know how voluntary the sale is.

Lynn
m***@sky.com
2020-05-24 11:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
I sometimes wonder how valid the organleggers' business model in
Niven's stories is.
For those who don't know the stories (anybody?): In an early
period of Niven's Known Space universe, transplant medicine has
progressed considerably. As a consequence, the the death penalty
is imposed for very minor crimes (like exceeding the speed limit).
Convicted criminals are broken up for transplants, so each one
saves, on average, several lives. People vote for this because
they "want to live forever". So far, so unpleasant.
There are also criminals who kidnap victims, break them up and use
their organs as transplants for people who can not get them legally.
These are the Organleggers, and a few of the Gil the ARM stories
deal the protagonist hunting them. The punishment for organlegging,
of course, is death by organ bank.
This is facilityted by weapons which reliably knock out people
without harming them otherwise.
Now, what I don't understand is how the market works. We have
otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to make contact with a
highly criminal organizations which routinely kill people. How
would one go about this? Anybody standing on a street corner
approaching people with "Hey you, your eyes look jaundiced. Need a
new liver?" would very quickly fall afoul of undercover policemen.
More generally, if the "services" of the organleggers were available
to the general population, sting operations would be commonplace,
and people who changed their minds before an operation would also
be a grave danger to organleggers - instead of a patient, a SWAT
team could show up. Or convicted criminals could get their freedom
by volunteering for a sting operation.
On the other hand, if somebody went to an organlegger to get
some replacement organ - it can be assumed that the visit would
be done in secrecy. How would such a potential receiver be sure
that the organleggers would not make him disappear? Easier to
kidnap people who are already in your secret lair, instead of just
grabbing somebody off the street.
Also, even if the organleggers are "honest" (and why would they
be?) , a few planted press reports about dishonest ones who break
up 20% of their customers shold do a nice job of deterring
customers.
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
The practical problems you raise can be resolved if the organleggers are also the government, or the Party - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Mike Van Pelt
2020-05-27 21:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Thomas Koenig
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
The practical problems you raise can be resolved if the organleggers are
also the government, or the Party -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Someone years ago was telling me of someone they knew
who had made a trip to China to get a transplant.

If I'd met that person, I'd have asked if he got to pick
the political prisoner out like picking a lobster from a
tank at a seafood restaurant.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-28 00:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Thomas Koenig
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
The practical problems you raise can be resolved if the organleggers are
also the government, or the Party -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Someone years ago was telling me of someone they knew
who had made a trip to China to get a transplant.
If I'd met that person, I'd have asked if he got to pick
the political prisoner out like picking a lobster from a
tank at a seafood restaurant.
I tried to remember if Niven’s organleggers do the
surgery for customers. One or more stories indicate
they have access to transplant services. On the other
hand, a well off home apparently has a fairly capable
robot doctor capsule: it removes an arm (ouch),
with real 2020 technology it might automatically
order a replacement from an Amazon second
hand seller.
Jack Bohn
2020-05-28 00:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Robert Carnegie wrote:

[In Niven stories:]
a well off home apparently has a fairly capable 
robot doctor capsule: it removes an arm (ouch), 
with real 2020 technology it might automatically 
order a replacement from an Amazon second 
hand seller. 

I see what you did there.
--
-Jack
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-28 04:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
[In Niven stories:]
a well off home apparently has a fairly capable 
robot doctor capsule: it removes an arm (ouch), 
with real 2020 technology it might automatically 
order a replacement from an Amazon second 
hand seller. 
I see what you did there.
I think I distracted myself from completing my argument
that in the setting, transplant surgery might be performed
easily at home but for availability of parts, which is the
biggie.

But... the manufacturer of a “home Frankenstein”
machine would run into serious lawsuits from hopefully
rare-ish cases of extremely selfish* people cannibalising
members of their family. So to speak. I was going to
say “crazy” but James’s satellite community on Dreamwidth
just reminded me that Larry Niven’s futures treat mental
illness as easily manageable as long as your auto-doc
doesn’t malfunction without telling you (don’t buy
Sirius Cybernetics, ever). But they might not treat
sociopathy as deviant.

So maybe only Sirius Cybernetics hypothetically
makes a home auto-doc whose functions include
“take patient apart” and “reassemble from the parts
available”.
Peter Trei
2020-05-28 15:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Jack Bohn
[In Niven stories:]
a well off home apparently has a fairly capable 
robot doctor capsule: it removes an arm (ouch), 
with real 2020 technology it might automatically 
order a replacement from an Amazon second 
hand seller. 
I see what you did there.
I think I distracted myself from completing my argument
that in the setting, transplant surgery might be performed
easily at home but for availability of parts, which is the
biggie.
But... the manufacturer of a “home Frankenstein”
machine would run into serious lawsuits from hopefully
rare-ish cases of extremely selfish* people cannibalising
members of their family. So to speak. I was going to
say “crazy” but James’s satellite community on Dreamwidth
just reminded me that Larry Niven’s futures treat mental
illness as easily manageable as long as your auto-doc
doesn’t malfunction without telling you (don’t buy
Sirius Cybernetics, ever). But they might not treat
sociopathy as deviant.
So maybe only Sirius Cybernetics hypothetically
makes a home auto-doc whose functions include
“take patient apart” and “reassemble from the parts
available”.
In the 'fleet of worlds' known space follow ups, one of the maguffins is one of a kind
auto doc that can perform the second function.

Pt
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-31 02:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Thomas Koenig
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
The practical problems you raise can be resolved if the organleggers are
also the government, or the Party -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Someone years ago was telling me of someone they knew
who had made a trip to China to get a transplant.
If I'd met that person, I'd have asked if he got to pick
the political prisoner out like picking a lobster from a
tank at a seafood restaurant.
Probably came out of a muslim. Maybe a Christian.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-31 03:00:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 May 2020 21:48:43 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Thomas Koenig
Soo... maybe that particular future isn't in the cards, at least
not the organleggers part?
The practical problems you raise can be resolved if the organleggers are
also the government, or the Party -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Someone years ago was telling me of someone they knew
who had made a trip to China to get a transplant.
If I'd met that person, I'd have asked if he got to pick
the political prisoner out like picking a lobster from a
tank at a seafood restaurant.
Probably came out of a muslim. Maybe a Christian.
If they get to pick the donor, that's good, because they are unlikely
to get a match that way, and will reject the organ and die.

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