Discussion:
Explaining Princess Aura
(too old to reply)
Quadibloc
2021-02-18 05:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.

In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin; in addition to being
bald, he has neither a beard nor a moustach - nor eyebrows - and appears to
be an _alien_, not a human.

That would seem to make Princess Aura, both human *and Caucasian*,
even harder to explain.

However...

if this were made *use* of in a subsequent revival of the character, it could
indeed provide an explanation for her existence.

Mongo, with its diverse, but largely _human_ inhabitants... could be under
the rule of aliens with advanced science and high intelligence, led by the
cruel Ming.

At one time in the past, Ming was apparently killed - but his body was
cloned, and his brain was kept alive.

And by radio remote control, it operated the body of one of his generals, a
human, who had died, but whose body, if not brain, could be revived. During
this time, he fathered Aura.

Eventually, his clone - from which the brain was removed at an early stage of
development - grew to maturity, and Ming switched over to controlling that
body.

So, sometime after Flash Gordon's arrival, Ming could meet with another
apparently fatal accident... and switch bodies again, thus allowing the
mystery to be explained.

John Savard
David Johnston
2021-02-18 06:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.
In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin; in addition to being
bald, he has neither a beard nor a moustach - nor eyebrows - and appears to
be an _alien_, not a human.
That would seem to make Princess Aura, both human *and Caucasian*,
even harder to explain.
...what the hell are you talking about?

Loading Image...

At least in this panel from the strip Aura is the same bright yellow as
Ming. When I check Comics Kingdom's run of Flash Gordon I see that
they've toned down her case of jaundice in more modern times but she's
still distinctly yellow, although she's also gone from brunette to
red-head.
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-18 11:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Quadibloc
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.
In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin; in addition to being
bald, he has neither a beard nor a moustach - nor eyebrows - and appears to
be an _alien_, not a human.
That would seem to make Princess Aura, both human *and Caucasian*,
even harder to explain.
...what the hell are you talking about?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--MCKdJQOf--/17tdckat13lgajpg.jpg
At least in this panel from the strip Aura is the same bright yellow as
Ming. When I check Comics Kingdom's run of Flash Gordon I see that
they've toned down her case of jaundice in more modern times but she's
still distinctly yellow, although she's also gone from brunette to
red-head.
She might still be his step-daughter. But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.

However, it addresses the issue of Ming reappearing
after certain death. In the Sam Jones film, there's the
business at the end with Ming's ring. I thought it was
where he is backed up to but it could be /what he is/.
Whenever some sucker puts the ring on...

And let's be gender equal, in space all five sexes probably
can have whatever hair colour and quantity they desire.
Max von Sydow's eyebrows look particularly artificial,
and why shouldn't they be? What the well dressed tyrant
is wearing.

And skin colour, but Ming usually is yellow, often
unrealistically so for a human, or pink.

<https://comicvine.gamespot.com/ming-the-merciless/4005-7952/>
has a "Defenders of the Earth" picture where he's green.

And here he's red.
<https://www.teepublic.com/laptop-case/5384649-ming-the-merciless>
And black on the inside, but let's not go in that direction.
pete...@gmail.com
2021-02-18 14:54:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Quadibloc
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.
In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin; in addition to being
bald, he has neither a beard nor a moustach - nor eyebrows - and appears to
be an _alien_, not a human.
That would seem to make Princess Aura, both human *and Caucasian*,
even harder to explain.
...what the hell are you talking about?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--MCKdJQOf--/17tdckat13lgajpg.jpg
At least in this panel from the strip Aura is the same bright yellow as
Ming. When I check Comics Kingdom's run of Flash Gordon I see that
they've toned down her case of jaundice in more modern times but she's
still distinctly yellow, although she's also gone from brunette to
red-head.
She might still be his step-daughter. But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
However, it addresses the issue of Ming reappearing
after certain death. In the Sam Jones film, there's the
business at the end with Ming's ring. I thought it was
where he is backed up to but it could be /what he is/.
Whenever some sucker puts the ring on...
And let's be gender equal, in space all five sexes probably
can have whatever hair colour and quantity they desire.
Max von Sydow's eyebrows look particularly artificial,
and why shouldn't they be? What the well dressed tyrant
is wearing.
And skin colour, but Ming usually is yellow, often
unrealistically so for a human, or pink.
<https://comicvine.gamespot.com/ming-the-merciless/4005-7952/>
has a "Defenders of the Earth" picture where he's green.
And here he's red.
<https://www.teepublic.com/laptop-case/5384649-ming-the-merciless>
And black on the inside, but let's not go in that direction.
Clearly linked to this continuum:

https://www.amazon.in/NECA-Simpsons-25th-Anniversary-Miniature/dp/B00I1AXGEI

pt
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-02-18 16:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
He should be discouraged from trying a lot of things.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2021-02-18 18:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://comicvine.gamespot.com/ming-the-merciless/4005-7952/>
has a "Defenders of the Earth" picture where he's green.
And he was grey in the DC comics run.

John Savard
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2021-02-18 19:29:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer & the Steam-Powered Saurians.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml
J. Clarke
2021-02-18 19:54:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:29:01 -0800, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
However attempting such discouragement is only slightly less rewarding
that attacking a battleship with a nerf gun.
Chrysi Cat
2021-02-20 02:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:29:01 -0800, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
However attempting such discouragement is only slightly less rewarding
that attacking a battleship with a nerf gun.
Shirley it'd be "slightly MORE rewarding"?

I mean, I can't think there's anything less productive than
nerf-attacking a battleship.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
J. Clarke
2021-02-20 02:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:29:01 -0800, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
However attempting such discouragement is only slightly less rewarding
that attacking a battleship with a nerf gun.
Shirley it'd be "slightly MORE rewarding"?
I mean, I can't think there's anything less productive than
nerf-attacking a battleship.
Think about that statement.
Titus G
2021-02-20 02:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:29:01 -0800, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
  But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
However attempting such discouragement is only slightly less rewarding
that attacking a battleship with a nerf gun.
Shirley it'd be "slightly MORE rewarding"?
I mean, I can't think there's anything less productive than
nerf-attacking a battleship.
Based on cost benefit analysis, a battleship attacking a nerf would
definitely be less productive.
Dimensional Traveler
2021-02-20 03:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 11:29:01 -0800, Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 03:42:04 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
  But I think that John
should be discouraged from trying to solve race problems.
You display a knack for understatement.
However attempting such discouragement is only slightly less rewarding
that attacking a battleship with a nerf gun.
Shirley it'd be "slightly MORE rewarding"?
I mean, I can't think there's anything less productive than
nerf-attacking a battleship.
Based on cost benefit analysis, a battleship attacking a nerf would
definitely be less productive.
Well, first you'd have to find an in-service battleship. Then you would
have to mount such a massive nerf attack that anyone on board actually
noticed it.
--
I like living in the suburbs of Sanity. I can commute there when I need
to be serious or mature but otherwise I can do as I please.
Quadibloc
2021-02-18 18:04:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--MCKdJQOf--/17tdckat13lgajpg.jpg
At least in this panel from the strip Aura is the same bright yellow as
Ming.
Yes. That strip was from the... transitional period, where Ming and Aura were human,
and still the bright yellow of Ming's former alien form. Later on, they both changed to
a pink flesh tone, but with Ming still bearing East Asian features while Aura did not.

John Savard
Kevrob
2021-02-18 18:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--MCKdJQOf--/17tdckat13lgajpg.jpg
At least in this panel from the strip Aura is the same bright yellow as
Ming.
Yes. That strip was from the... transitional period, where Ming and Aura were human,
and still the bright yellow of Ming's former alien form. Later on, they both changed to
a pink flesh tone, but with Ming still bearing East Asian features while Aura did not.
Princess Aura in the FLASH movie serials was hot stuff, but not a
"dragon lady."

https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/priscilla+lawson?sort=top
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-02-20 06:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which, of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-20 13:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which, of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color... Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money? (Or because time?)
Quadibloc
2021-02-20 15:00:10 UTC
Permalink
And remember in color... Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money? (Or because time?)
Perhaps something like that. Or perhaps it is just that
Alex Raymond's art was developing quickly over the course
of those first few strips.

John Savard
David Johnston
2021-02-20 21:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which, of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color... Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money? (Or because time?)
He always looked like a Fu Manchu knock-off. Just a rather crudely
drawn one. This was his first appearance.

Loading Image...
Dimensional Traveler
2021-02-20 22:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which, of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color...  Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money?  (Or because time?)
He always looked like a Fu Manchu knock-off.  Just a rather crudely
drawn one.  This was his first appearance.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/d8/8a/48d88adab45fc3ea7a7cbd40220308b3.jpg
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
--
I like living in the suburbs of Sanity. I can commute there when I need
to be serious or mature but otherwise I can do as I please.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-02-20 23:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which,
of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color...  Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money?  (Or because time?)
He always looked like a Fu Manchu knock-off.  Just a rather crudely
drawn one.  This was his first appearance.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/d8/8a/48d88adab45fc3ea7a7cbd40220308b3.jpg
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Whoever owns the copyright retconned that in the 80s (I think, maybe later)
so that the "Han" weren't actually the Chinese, but alien parasites
who had conqured China first.

And, just a note, that you're never going to get anything subtle with
Sunday comics colors from the 30s. It's not even good there today, although
comic books are finally better.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kevrob
2021-02-21 01:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which,
of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color... Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money? (Or because time?)
He always looked like a Fu Manchu knock-off. Just a rather crudely
drawn one. This was his first appearance.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/d8/8a/48d88adab45fc3ea7a7cbd40220308b3.jpg
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Whoever owns the copyright retconned that in the 80s (I think, maybe later)
so that the "Han" weren't actually the Chinese, but alien parasites
who had conqured China first.
Nowlan did that in the second (and last?) of the Rogers novellas,
even before the strip was launched.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
And, just a note, that you're never going to get anything subtle with
Sunday comics colors from the 30s. It's not even good there today, although
comic books are finally better.
--
I'm not sure if the syndicate (King Features) would have assigned a colorist,
or if Raymond provided them with a color guide, but it wasn't unusual in early
comic books for a staff colorist to work on submitted black & white art with
no "bible" provided on a strip with continung characters who wore costumes
or uniforms. IMS, the "red suit, white cape, gold trim" color scheme of the
original Captain Marvel was decided on by the colorist, perhaps with input
from the WHIZ COMICS editors. If so, I hope he (or she - many of the colorists
were female) got a bonus for that! So the decision to color the Mongonian
Imperials in that stereotypical "Yellow Peril" style might not have been
Raymond's. OTOH, if you draw cliche "orientals," don't be surprised if someone
in the mid-1930s goes full Fu Manchu. Even sympathetic, if comic-relief
characters got colored that way, even when they were our Noble Chinese Allies
in WWII. ["Chop-Chop" in the Blackhawk comics by Quality, or the Crimson
Avenger's Kato knock-off, Wing, in DETECTIVE COMICS.]
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-02-21 00:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two different competing comic strips.

John Savard
Kevrob
2021-02-21 01:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two different competing comic strips.
People get confused, because Larry "Buster" Crabbe played them both
in the serials. One would NOT confuse the work of Dick Calkins for that
of Alex Raymond!
--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-02-21 04:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 3:14:21 PM UTC-7, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two different competing comic strips.
People get confused, because Larry "Buster" Crabbe played them both
in the serials. One would NOT confuse the work of Dick Calkins for that
of Alex Raymond!
--
Kevin R
I didn't take it as confusion, just pointing out that Buck Rogers also
faced 'yellow peril' menaces.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
2021-02-21 05:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I didn't take it as confusion, just pointing out that Buck Rogers also
faced 'yellow peril' menaces.
I suppose that's also possible. And, of course, the negativity about the Chinese
was much more explicit.

That comic dealt with it by switching emphasis to fighting the pirates led by
Killer Kane.

John Savard
Kevrob
2021-02-21 06:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I didn't take it as confusion, just pointing out that Buck Rogers also
faced 'yellow peril' menaces.
I suppose that's also possible. And, of course, the negativity about the Chinese
was much more explicit.
That comic dealt with it by switching emphasis to fighting the pirates led by
Killer Kane.
Kane's the main villain in the Buck Rogers serial, also.

Prince Tallen and his Saturnians look Asian, and they wind up as
allies of The Hidden City!
--
Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-02-21 06:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 9:30:36 PM UTC-7, Ted Nolan
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I didn't take it as confusion, just pointing out that Buck Rogers also
faced 'yellow peril' menaces.
I suppose that's also possible. And, of course, the negativity about
the Chinese
was much more explicit.
That comic dealt with it by switching emphasis to fighting the pirates led by
Killer Kane.
Kane's the main villain in the Buck Rogers serial, also.
Prince Tallen and his Saturnians look Asian, and they wind up as
allies of The Hidden City!
--
Kevin R
Not to mention that by the time of WWII the Tiger-Men of Mars had become
Japanese stereotypes and Buck went into battle with them roaring "Remember
Pearl Harbor!".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
2021-02-21 16:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not to mention that by the time of WWII the Tiger-Men of Mars had become
Japanese stereotypes and Buck went into battle with them roaring "Remember
Pearl Harbor!".
I remember something about the Japanese fleeing to Venus or Mercury and then
"reverting to type" and becoming monkey-men, but that's the only thing I recall about
Buck Rogers and Japan.

John Savard
The Horny Goat
2021-03-07 19:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not to mention that by the time of WWII the Tiger-Men of Mars had become
Japanese stereotypes and Buck went into battle with them roaring "Remember
Pearl Harbor!".
Nothing like subtle references!
Kevrob
2021-03-07 20:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not to mention that by the time of WWII the Tiger-Men of Mars had become
Japanese stereotypes and Buck went into battle with them roaring "Remember
Pearl Harbor!".
Nothing like subtle references!
...and who told Buck about Pearl? IMS, he went under
into suspended animation years before the sneak attack.
--
Kevin R
James Nicoll
2021-03-07 21:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not to mention that by the time of WWII the Tiger-Men of Mars had become
Japanese stereotypes and Buck went into battle with them roaring "Remember
Pearl Harbor!".
Nothing like subtle references!
Wasn't Buck frozen before WWII?
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Carnegie
2021-02-21 23:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two different competing comic strips.
In that context, there seems to be a good argument
to call Buck Rogers "the original"; I gather he was
there first of the two, and Wikipedia says Flash's strip
was "inspired by" Buck Rogers' one.
Kevrob
2021-02-26 03:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The original stories, 'Armageddon 2419 A.D.' and 'The Airlords of Han'
involved proto-Buck fighting the "Han" who had conquered North America.
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were two different competing comic strips.
In that context, there seems to be a good argument
to call Buck Rogers "the original"; I gather he was
there first of the two, and Wikipedia says Flash's strip
was "inspired by" Buck Rogers' one.
"As you know Bob,".......

The Wiki also says that King ordered up FLASH when the syndicate
couldn't come to terms with ERB in regards to a JOHN CARTER OF
MARS strip.

https://www.dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2018/12/01/first-and-last-john-carter-of-mars-comic-strip/

Strip archive at:

https://www.erbzine.com/mag22/2288.html
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-02-26 03:25:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
The Wiki also says that King ordered up FLASH when the syndicate
couldn't come to terms with ERB in regards to a JOHN CARTER OF
MARS strip.
How ironic, given the much better-known story that George Lucas
filmed Star Wars when he couldn't get the rights to do an adaptation
of Flash Gordon to the silver screen.

So we have a chain of wannabeism here, from Buck Rogers and
John Carter to Flash Gordon, and then from Flash Gordon to Star
Wars.
Post by Kevrob
https://www.dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2018/12/01/first-and-last-john-carter-of-mars-comic-strip/
The John Carter strip, by debuting on December 7, 1941, the day of Pearl
Harbor... had the same bad luck as the Doctor Who television series, which
debuted on November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated.

John Savard
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-02-26 04:07:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
The Wiki also says that King ordered up FLASH when the syndicate
couldn't come to terms with ERB in regards to a JOHN CARTER OF
MARS strip.
How ironic, given the much better-known story that George Lucas
filmed Star Wars when he couldn't get the rights to do an adaptation
of Flash Gordon to the silver screen.
So we have a chain of wannabeism here, from Buck Rogers and
John Carter to Flash Gordon, and then from Flash Gordon to Star
Wars.
https://www.dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2018/12/01/first-and-last-john-carter-of-mars-comic-strip/
The John Carter strip, by debuting on December 7, 1941, the day of Pearl
Harbor... had the same bad luck as the Doctor Who television series, which
debuted on November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated.
John Savard
Give me the kind of bad luck that results in a 57 year TV franchaise.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kevrob
2021-02-26 05:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
The Wiki also says that King ordered up FLASH when the syndicate
couldn't come to terms with ERB in regards to a JOHN CARTER OF
MARS strip.
How ironic, given the much better-known story that George Lucas
filmed Star Wars when he couldn't get the rights to do an adaptation
of Flash Gordon to the silver screen.
So we have a chain of wannabeism here, from Buck Rogers and
John Carter to Flash Gordon, and then from Flash Gordon to Star
Wars.
https://www.dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2018/12/01/first-and-last-john-carter-of-mars-comic-strip/
The John Carter strip, by debutin g on December 7, 1941, the day of Pearl
Harbor... had the same bad luck as the Doctor Who television series, which
debuted on November 22, 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated.
John Savard
Give me the kind of bad luck that results in a 57 year TV franchaise.
--
The attack on Pearl was not announced on the radio until just before 2:30
pm Eastern time (New York, Washington DC,) so anybody who took one of
the handful of a Sunday papers that was running it probably had a chance to
read it before the terrible reality intruded on the Warlord of Mars.

http://www.raritan-online.com/ph-radio.htm *

* Yes, there was, for 14 years, a Brooklyn Dodgers football team.
It, like the Baseball Bums, played home games at Ebbets Field.
--
Kevin R
Kevrob
2021-02-21 05:51:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by David Johnston
...what the hell are you talking about?
I've checked, and the different appearance of the race to which Ming belongs is
not fully present in even the earliest Sunday color strips. They apparently were
only *really* alien in one or two of the first daily strips (which, of course, would be
without color) in which they appeared - and this is what I remember them from,
even if I can't find it now on the web.
And remember in color... Do you suppose perhaps
some editor said "Why does the Supreme Intelligence
look like a talking frog, make him a Fu Manchu
emperor", but without redrawing the first shots
because money? (Or because time?)
"Supreme Intelligence" is a Lee/Kirby creation, from FANTASTIC
FOUR #65, IN 1967. I can see the frog resemblance, though.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/fantastic_four_65.shtml

It doesn't look much like Annette Bening. :)
--
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2021-02-21 16:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
"Supreme Intelligence" is a Lee/Kirby creation, from FANTASTIC
FOUR #65, IN 1967. I can see the frog resemblance, though.
I assure you I did not misremember the tale of Ronan, the Accuser.
This was a title used by Ming.

John Savard
Juho Julkunen
2021-02-18 11:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.
In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin;
Which, of course, has never been part of stereotypical depictions of
the Yellow Peril.
--
Juho Julkunen
J. Clarke
2021-02-18 16:07:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 13:10:01 +0200, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by Quadibloc
Alex Raymond's imaginative and beautifully-drawn comic strip Flash Gordon,
and the subsequent works in several media featuring the character, have
been criticized on the grounds that the arch-villain Ming the Merciless
resembles a human being of East Asian ancestry, and in other respects -
including his name - also corresponds to stereotypes of the Chinese.
In his very first appearance in the comic, however, Ming, the Supreme
Intelligence of Mongo, has bright lemon-yellow skin;
Which, of course, has never been part of stereotypical depictions of
the Yellow Peril.
However, regardless of color, on December 7, 1941, the Japanese showed
themselves to be a considerable peril. Admittedly, less of one than
they believed themselves to be, as they found out the hard way, but a
considerable peril nonetheless.

And anyone who is dismissive of China needs to consider that they are
spending more on their military than the next four nations combined,
without actually having a credible enemy that is likely to attack
them.

Of course the US is guilty of the same thing only bigger and better,
so maybe they see the US as being likely to attack them.
Scott Lurndal
2021-02-18 16:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 13:10:01 +0200, Juho Julkunen
Post by Juho Julkunen
Which, of course, has never been part of stereotypical depictions of
the Yellow Peril.
However, regardless of color, on December 7, 1941, the Japanese showed
themselves to be a considerable peril. Admittedly, less of one than
they believed themselves to be, as they found out the hard way, but a
considerable peril nonetheless.
And anyone who is dismissive of China needs to consider that they are
spending more on their military than the next four nations combined,
without actually having a credible enemy that is likely to attack
them.
Of course the US is guilty of the same thing only bigger and better,
so maybe they see the US as being likely to attack them.
Given the last administrations constant attacks on China[*], that's not an
unreasonable assumption.

[*] Perhaps Trump was wagging the dog, but that's not the external perspective.
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