Discussion:
Alley Oop [no date]--Joey thinks we're all beefwits...
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Chrysi Cat
2020-03-24 10:00:53 UTC
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...so she's had comments closed on the comic.

I can SORT of understand why McElwordswords did it, but with Oop it was
entirely because Ms. Sayers has been pissing all over the concept for
over a year and seems to be alienating everyone who remotely liked the
old concept.

When you do _that_ type of "revamp", you usually shouldn't be revamping
in the first place. Do a pastiche or something with the serial numbers
filed off.

And if you get ten pages of comments a day to the effect that the strip
would have been better off cancelled than handed to someone who
disrespects the original creator this badly, the proper response from
the syndicate isn't to shut down the comments; it's to fire the writer.
Especially when she's, unlike Nancy under Olivia, not drawing in any
_new_ readers to replace the ones who were only there to snark it or
offer their own "better version" in prose.

Speaking of which, if anyone has contact with the angry Oop readers,
please advise them to come here rather than their original plan of
hijacking one of the Spanish-language strips to become the secret Oop
comment page, since that's a good way to get banned by GoComics!

[Re-posted, with the crosspost to r.a.sf.w]
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-03-24 12:10:42 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
...so she's had comments closed on the comic.
I can SORT of understand why McElwordswords did it, but with Oop it was
entirely because Ms. Sayers has been pissing all over the concept for
over a year and seems to be alienating everyone who remotely liked the
old concept.
When you do _that_ type of "revamp", you usually shouldn't be revamping
in the first place. Do a pastiche or something with the serial numbers
filed off.
And if you get ten pages of comments a day to the effect that the strip
would have been better off cancelled than handed to someone who
disrespects the original creator this badly, the proper response from
the syndicate isn't to shut down the comments; it's to fire the writer.
Especially when she's, unlike Nancy under Olivia, not drawing in any
_new_ readers to replace the ones who were only there to snark it or
offer their own "better version" in prose.
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dave Van Domelen
2020-03-24 17:16:00 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
Likewise. I had no particular interest in the old series, but it's not
being "killed off" in any way. It's explicitly Earth-1, while the current
series is Earth-2. It draws on elements of the original strip, but isn't
saying those elements were always the way they are now.

New Alley Oop is basically the Legends of Tomorrow version...idiots with
a time machine.

Dave Van Domelen, likes Legends of Tomorrow too.
Chrysi Cat
2020-03-25 01:16:20 UTC
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Post by Dave Van Domelen
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
Likewise. I had no particular interest in the old series, but it's not
being "killed off" in any way. It's explicitly Earth-1, while the current
series is Earth-2. It draws on elements of the original strip, but isn't
saying those elements were always the way they are now.
New Alley Oop is basically the Legends of Tomorrow version...idiots with
a time machine.
Dave Van Domelen, likes Legends of Tomorrow too.
Which would make some sense if it was just Alley and Oola adjusting to
the idiocy of Wonmug, but Alley (to an extent; he _does_ at least have
the small excuse of being amnesiac) and Oola (in her entirety) are still
the ones from _Hamlin's_ universe and are severely suspending disbelief
when they just keep humouring him!

For one thing, Oola never enjoyed the time travel in the prime 'verse;
that was Alley. If Wonmug can fire her in the current one (not an option
in the old as they weren't paid employees, why doesn't she just let him?
And if the answer is "time travel has grown on her to the point where
she needs it to be whole", you need to show that somehow!

It's not like she's refusing to quit or be fired because of unemployment
law, both because I think Colorado is the only state in the union where
unemployment benefits are only available to the explicity-laid-off, and
because she'd have no reason to stay downtime without her "job!"

Maybe the strip would work as a case where these weren't explicitly the
prime-verse characters, though I think that would more likely have
angered even _more_ of the folks who made up the hatedom for the
Benders' version [because it _already_ was 'too far from Hamlin and Graue"].

As it is, it very occasionally lands, but it also strikes me as about as
in need of a daily gag as El Goonish Shive, which has learned that you
can go days without a punchline outside of NP.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-03-25 03:42:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dave Van Domelen
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
Likewise. I had no particular interest in the old series, but it's not
being "killed off" in any way. It's explicitly Earth-1, while the current
series is Earth-2. It draws on elements of the original strip, but isn't
saying those elements were always the way they are now.
New Alley Oop is basically the Legends of Tomorrow version...idiots with
a time machine.
Dave Van Domelen, likes Legends of Tomorrow too.
Which would make some sense if it was just Alley and Oola adjusting to
the idiocy of Wonmug, but Alley (to an extent; he _does_ at least have
the small excuse of being amnesiac) and Oola (in her entirety) are still
the ones from _Hamlin's_ universe and are severely suspending disbelief
when they just keep humouring him!
For one thing, Oola never enjoyed the time travel in the prime 'verse;
that was Alley. If Wonmug can fire her in the current one (not an option
in the old as they weren't paid employees, why doesn't she just let him?
And if the answer is "time travel has grown on her to the point where
she needs it to be whole", you need to show that somehow!
It's not like she's refusing to quit or be fired because of unemployment
law, both because I think Colorado is the only state in the union where
unemployment benefits are only available to the explicity-laid-off, and
because she'd have no reason to stay downtime without her "job!"
Maybe the strip would work as a case where these weren't explicitly the
prime-verse characters, though I think that would more likely have
angered even _more_ of the folks who made up the hatedom for the
Benders' version [because it _already_ was 'too far from Hamlin and Graue"].
As it is, it very occasionally lands, but it also strikes me as about as
in need of a daily gag as El Goonish Shive, which has learned that you
can go days without a punchline outside of NP.
"New Reader", remember.

I was aware of Alley Oop through the song and seeing the occasional strip
once every few years, but I'm not invested in how it was.

I'm sure there are "Teen Titans" fans who consider "Teen Titans Go!" to be
a desecration of Wolfman & Perez's great creation. My 9 year old
niece doesn't care about that...

(Actually, neither do I -- It's a very funny show).
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kevrob
2020-03-25 14:35:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dave Van Domelen
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
Likewise. I had no particular interest in the old series, but it's not
being "killed off" in any way. It's explicitly Earth-1, while the current
series is Earth-2. It draws on elements of the original strip, but isn't
saying those elements were always the way they are now.
New Alley Oop is basically the Legends of Tomorrow version...idiots with
a time machine.
Dave Van Domelen, likes Legends of Tomorrow too.
Which would make some sense if it was just Alley and Oola adjusting to
the idiocy of Wonmug, but Alley (to an extent; he _does_ at least have
the small excuse of being amnesiac) and Oola (in her entirety) are still
the ones from _Hamlin's_ universe and are severely suspending disbelief
when they just keep humouring him!
For one thing, Oola never enjoyed the time travel in the prime 'verse;
that was Alley. If Wonmug can fire her in the current one (not an option
in the old as they weren't paid employees, why doesn't she just let him?
And if the answer is "time travel has grown on her to the point where
she needs it to be whole", you need to show that somehow!
It's not like she's refusing to quit or be fired because of unemployment
law, both because I think Colorado is the only state in the union where
unemployment benefits are only available to the explicity-laid-off, and
because she'd have no reason to stay downtime without her "job!"
Maybe the strip would work as a case where these weren't explicitly the
prime-verse characters, though I think that would more likely have
angered even _more_ of the folks who made up the hatedom for the
Benders' version [because it _already_ was 'too far from Hamlin and Graue"].
As it is, it very occasionally lands, but it also strikes me as about as
in need of a daily gag as El Goonish Shive, which has learned that you
can go days without a punchline outside of NP.
"New Reader", remember.
I was aware of Alley Oop through the song and seeing the occasional strip
once every few years, but I'm not invested in how it was.
I'm sure there are "Teen Titans" fans who consider "Teen Titans Go!"
to be a desecration of Wolfman & Perez's great creation. My 9 year
old niece doesn't care about that...
(Actually, neither do I -- It's a very funny show).
Cartoon network has been running both "Teen Titans Go!" and the
2003-2006 "Teen Titans" series lately. I've got 8 half-hours of
that last on the DVR. The 2 "casts" met recently, in the TV movie,
"Teen Titans Go! vs Teen Titans," which features a plethora
of alternate-universe versions of the team, most being call-
backs to previous episodes, the comics, and even the Filmation
shorts that ran on CBS-TV's "Superman/Aquaman Hour of Adventure"
back in 1967-1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Titans_Go!_vs._Teen_Titans

You'd have to be Control Freak to dislike it!

Kevin R
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-03-25 15:23:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Van Domelen
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dave Van Domelen
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
Likewise. I had no particular interest in the old series,
but it's not
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dave Van Domelen
being "killed off" in any way. It's explicitly Earth-1, while the current
series is Earth-2. It draws on elements of the original strip, but isn't
saying those elements were always the way they are now.
New Alley Oop is basically the Legends of Tomorrow
version...idiots with
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dave Van Domelen
a time machine.
Dave Van Domelen, likes Legends of Tomorrow too.
Which would make some sense if it was just Alley and Oola adjusting to
the idiocy of Wonmug, but Alley (to an extent; he _does_ at least have
the small excuse of being amnesiac) and Oola (in her entirety) are still
the ones from _Hamlin's_ universe and are severely suspending disbelief
when they just keep humouring him!
For one thing, Oola never enjoyed the time travel in the prime 'verse;
that was Alley. If Wonmug can fire her in the current one (not an option
in the old as they weren't paid employees, why doesn't she just let him?
And if the answer is "time travel has grown on her to the point where
she needs it to be whole", you need to show that somehow!
It's not like she's refusing to quit or be fired because of unemployment
law, both because I think Colorado is the only state in the union where
unemployment benefits are only available to the explicity-laid-off, and
because she'd have no reason to stay downtime without her "job!"
Maybe the strip would work as a case where these weren't explicitly the
prime-verse characters, though I think that would more likely have
angered even _more_ of the folks who made up the hatedom for the
Benders' version [because it _already_ was 'too far from Hamlin and Graue"].
As it is, it very occasionally lands, but it also strikes me as about as
in need of a daily gag as El Goonish Shive, which has learned that you
can go days without a punchline outside of NP.
"New Reader", remember.
I was aware of Alley Oop through the song and seeing the occasional strip
once every few years, but I'm not invested in how it was.
I'm sure there are "Teen Titans" fans who consider "Teen Titans Go!"
to be a desecration of Wolfman & Perez's great creation. My 9 year
old niece doesn't care about that...
(Actually, neither do I -- It's a very funny show).
Cartoon network has been running both "Teen Titans Go!" and the
2003-2006 "Teen Titans" series lately. I've got 8 half-hours of
that last on the DVR. The 2 "casts" met recently, in the TV movie,
"Teen Titans Go! vs Teen Titans," which features a plethora
of alternate-universe versions of the team, most being call-
backs to previous episodes, the comics, and even the Filmation
shorts that ran on CBS-TV's "Superman/Aquaman Hour of Adventure"
back in 1967-1968.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Titans_Go!_vs._Teen_Titans
You'd have to be Control Freak to dislike it!
Kevin R
Yes, my niece watched the movie probably 20 times during the course of a week..

"It has to be you, because my mouth won't animate that wide!"
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
John W Kennedy
2020-03-24 18:31:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Chrysi Cat
...so she's had comments closed on the comic.
I can SORT of understand why McElwordswords did it, but with Oop it was
entirely because Ms. Sayers has been pissing all over the concept for
over a year and seems to be alienating everyone who remotely liked the
old concept.
When you do _that_ type of "revamp", you usually shouldn't be revamping
in the first place. Do a pastiche or something with the serial numbers
filed off.
And if you get ten pages of comments a day to the effect that the strip
would have been better off cancelled than handed to someone who
disrespects the original creator this badly, the proper response from
the syndicate isn't to shut down the comments; it's to fire the writer.
Especially when she's, unlike Nancy under Olivia, not drawing in any
_new_ readers to replace the ones who were only there to snark it or
offer their own "better version" in prose.
I like it, and I'm a drawn-in new reader.
And the snarking has been going on for years and years, since long
before the current creative team.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
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