Discussion:
University of Wyoming SF Archives
(too old to reply)
D B Davis
2019-10-18 13:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Yesterday, one of my clients gifted me with Wednesday's edition of the
_Casper Star Tribune_. It's the fat one, stuffed with inserts and
coupons. The newspaper wasn't for me, it was for my wife, to help me
earn some brownie points.
Soon after receiving the gift, my wife trolls me. "Do you know who
Weisinger is? He wants his father's papers back from U of W because of
Liz Cheney." One thing leads to another until:

Son of superman editor demands UW return historical archive after
Cheney comments

... An avid CNN watcher, Weisinger usually turns on the network
every day as idle watching, background noise to listen to while
he works. But before getting into his work, he said, he'll
usually watch five minutes of the conservative-leaning Fox News
Channel, in order to "see the distortions" of the day's events,
he said. ...

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/son-of-superman-editor-demands-uw-return-historical-archive-after/article_517c6867-2283-5ac2-87b5-f7e5e3b78cfc.html

There's a couple of concerns with Weisinger's behavior.

First, Laramie County, where the University's located, is one of the two
reliably Democrat counties in the state. Punishing the University is
tantamount to disgruntled HRC voters blocking traffic in Democrat cities
in the aftermath of the 2016 election.
As an aside, Teton County, home of world class banksters, is the
other reliably Democrat county. (Jackson rolls in his grave.)

The second concern with Weisinger is that he watches TV and then bull
ships himself into believing that it's merely "background noise." He
doesn't give propaganda purveyors nearly enough credit.



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
D B Davis
2019-10-18 15:37:02 UTC
Permalink
(My OP References: header got botched.)
Post by D B Davis
Yesterday, one of my clients gifted me with Wednesday's edition of the
_Casper Star Tribune_. It's the fat one, stuffed with inserts and
coupons. The newspaper wasn't for me, it was for my wife, to help me
earn some brownie points.
Soon after receiving the gift, my wife trolls me. "Do you know who
Weisinger is? He wants his father's papers back from U of W because of
Son of superman editor demands UW return historical archive after
Cheney comments
... An avid CNN watcher, Weisinger usually turns on the network
every day as idle watching, background noise to listen to while
he works. But before getting into his work, he said, he'll
usually watch five minutes of the conservative-leaning Fox News
Channel, in order to "see the distortions" of the day's events,
he said. ...
https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/son-of-superman-editor-demands-uw-return-historical-archive-after/article_517c6867-2283-5ac2-87b5-f7e5e3b78cfc.html
There's a couple of concerns with Weisinger's behavior.
First, Laramie County, where the University's located, is one of the two
reliably Democrat counties in the state. Punishing the University is
tantamount to disgruntled HRC voters blocking traffic in Democrat cities
in the aftermath of the 2016 election.
As an aside, Teton County, home of world class banksters, is the
other reliably Democrat county. (Jackson rolls in his grave.)
The second concern with Weisinger is that he watches TV and then bull
ships himself into believing that it's merely "background noise." He
doesn't give propaganda purveyors nearly enough credit.
Perhaps you'd like to repost this in rec.arts.comics.dc.universe?
Unca Mort's progeny should be more concerned about the lack of
"truth, justice and the American way" in the way Joe Shuster and
Jerry Siegel were treated by National-DC, maybe?
I understand that donating personal papers to an archive can be complicated,
due to issues of copyright, tax deductions, access, etc. Is the university
even required to heed the wishes of the heirs? Would they have to pay back
"1001 Valuable Things You Can Get Free," after all!*
* http://fancyclopedia.org/mort-weisinger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_Weisinger
Re-posted to rec.arts.comics.dc.universe.

You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Quadibloc
2019-10-18 17:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?

Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.

John Savard
o***@gmail.com
2019-10-18 18:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?
Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.
John Savard
....heh,heh,heh.....

The guy probably unfriended UW also.
Kevrob
2019-10-18 22:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?
Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?

There's an archive of them. Examples:

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408

Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.

Supes was big on brotherhood.

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored

Kevin R
o***@gmail.com
2019-10-18 22:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?
Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
Kevin R
But...from the "modern" POV, since their parents and grandparents thought it was a good idea....it's gotta be wrong.

At the very least: un-cool.
D B Davis
2019-10-19 02:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?
Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
But...from the "modern" POV, since their parents and grandparents thought
it was a good idea....it's gotta be wrong.
At the very least: un-cool.
Did globalism peak with Coke's "I'd like to teach the world to sing"
moment in the sun?

Superman brings something to American politics. There's a photo of
Obama posing with a Superman statue in ?Illinois? back in the day.

Coke's globalism is easy to understand. They want to sell a coke to
everyone on the planet.

Globalism as an American political tactic is harder for me to
understand. Unless it's simple association at play.



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Chrysi Cat
2019-10-19 19:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by D B Davis
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
How could they drop what they never had?
Seriously. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" may have been uttered in the
Superman TV show, but in the Superman comic book of the Weisinger era, the early
1960s, there were no references to that sort of thing. Superman certainly did
stand for the same values that America did, but he was highly depoliticized.
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
But...from the "modern" POV, since their parents and grandparents thought
it was a good idea....it's gotta be wrong.
At the very least: un-cool.
Did globalism peak with Coke's "I'd like to teach the world to sing"
moment in the sun?
Superman brings something to American politics. There's a photo of
Obama posing with a Superman statue in ?Illinois? back in the day.
Coke's globalism is easy to understand. They want to sell a coke to
everyone on the planet.
Globalism as an American political tactic is harder for me to
understand. Unless it's simple association at play.

Thank you,
Yes, that would be Illinois--not just because it's Obama's base of
operations during his entire political career, but also because Illinois
has the only _actual_ location in the US with the name Metropolis (It's
in "Egypt", so it never actually became a popular place of residence,
and it's almost certain S&S didn't know it existed, but it's jumped on
the name coincidence and bills itself as the Home of Superman though it
prolly never even had the population of Smallville.)

American globalism presupposed that every country in the world was
"ready for" liberal democracy (not in the political sense of the
word--in the "free to elect whomever" sense. It best showed up in the
idea that giving the UN increasing amounts of power, to the point where
by today it was "supposed" to be the supreme law of the land for the
entire world, was anything other than ill-advised because vast amounts
of the world's population are really subjects, rather than citizens,
starting with three out of the five largest populations in China,
Greater Russia (since it's clearly in the process of being reassembled)
and arguably Indonesia, since the last has claimed to have embraced
liberal democracy but is obviously being run only by strongmen.

And then India and the US started rejecting the liberal democratic
traditions that they'd had for 40 and over 210 years, respectively, to
the point where at least one party in each is now fully for strongman
rule as long as their party compatriots chose the strongman first. It's
almost like liberal democracy isn't as contagious as we thought, and
authoritarianism _is_ as contagious as XVIII., XIX., and XX. century feared.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quadibloc
2019-10-19 21:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
American globalism presupposed that every country in the world was
"ready for" liberal democracy (not in the political sense of the
word--in the "free to elect whomever" sense.
One doesn't have to just use the Arab Spring as an example of how this could go
wrong.

Look at Idi Amin, or at Biafra.

Had Britain been able to develop the countries of Africa to the point where
democracy would have been sustainable before granting their independence,
disasters like that would not have happened.

Since all the countries of the world are inhabited by adult human beings, and
people of color aren't mentally inferior, the way bigots belief, how can a
country _not_ be ready for democracy, though?

I don't often hear anyone presenting a good answer to that question.

It's easy enough to find scapegoats in specific cases - such as the heavy
payments Haiti was forced to pay to France to reimburse it for the lost slaves.

But I think the basic cause for democracy not taking root in the developing
world is based on an old saw: "the last person who should be running the country
is someone who wants to run the country".

Sounds reasonable, based on common insights into human nature, but in practice
the success of the major democratic industrialized nations shows it's just a
joke, right?

I suspect that the failed democracies of the Third World show this in action as
a valid rule - and the world's industrialized democracies are exceptions to it
because of their long history of gradual development of democratic institutions.
When the police and the army understand, and are loyal to, the ideal of
democracy, one scoundrel getting elected with dictatorial ambitions doesn't mean
the end of democracy.

When the police are underpaid and take bribes to survive, when the army is used
as a tool of political patronage for one favored ethnic group in a divided land,
on the other hand, a would-be dictator has the tools he needs ready to hand.

So you put democratic institutions in place, then you turn the electorate loose
after they've been working for a while. It's sad that Hong Kong never had the opportunity to become a self-governing Dominion like Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2019-10-19 22:39:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:12:04 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Chrysi Cat
American globalism presupposed that every country in the world was
"ready for" liberal democracy (not in the political sense of the
word--in the "free to elect whomever" sense.
One doesn't have to just use the Arab Spring as an example of how this could go
wrong.
Look at Idi Amin, or at Biafra.
Had Britain been able to develop the countries of Africa to the point where
democracy would have been sustainable before granting their independence,
disasters like that would not have happened.
Since all the countries of the world are inhabited by adult human beings, and
people of color aren't mentally inferior, the way bigots belief, how can a
country _not_ be ready for democracy, though?
Because it's not _intelligence_, it's _learning_. If government has
been something for the dictator and his or her minions, that was
dangerous to meddle with and that the average person did best by
avoiding or placating, telling those people that they now _are_ the
government is not going to have the desired outcome--ultimately
they'll turn to whatever authority figures exist in their lives for
guidance--in the Middle East it's the clergy and the tribal leaders,
and ultimately they end up with a theocracy tyrannized by whatever was
the majority religion.
Post by Quadibloc
I don't often hear anyone presenting a good answer to that question.
There isn't one. To have a successful outcome you have to educate the
people to understand the role of a citizen in a democracy, but for
that to happen you first have to overthrow the dictator.
Post by Quadibloc
It's easy enough to find scapegoats in specific cases - such as the heavy
payments Haiti was forced to pay to France to reimburse it for the lost slaves.
But I think the basic cause for democracy not taking root in the developing
world is based on an old saw: "the last person who should be running the country
is someone who wants to run the country".
Sounds reasonable, based on common insights into human nature, but in practice
the success of the major democratic industrialized nations shows it's just a
joke, right?
I suspect that the failed democracies of the Third World show this in action as
a valid rule - and the world's industrialized democracies are exceptions to it
because of their long history of gradual development of democratic institutions.
When the police and the army understand, and are loyal to, the ideal of
democracy, one scoundrel getting elected with dictatorial ambitions doesn't mean
the end of democracy.
When the police are underpaid and take bribes to survive, when the army is used
as a tool of political patronage for one favored ethnic group in a divided land,
on the other hand, a would-be dictator has the tools he needs ready to hand.
So you put democratic institutions in place, then you turn the electorate loose
after they've been working for a while. It's sad that Hong Kong never had the opportunity to become a self-governing Dominion like Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.
John Savard
Joe Bernstein
2019-10-23 00:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
because vast
amounts of the world's population are really subjects, rather than
citizens, starting with three out of the five largest populations in
China, Greater Russia (since it's clearly in the process of being
reassembled)
?
Post by Chrysi Cat
and arguably Indonesia, since the last has claimed to
have embraced liberal democracy but is obviously being run only by
strongmen.
??
Post by Chrysi Cat
And then India and the US started rejecting the liberal democratic
traditions that they'd had for 40 and over 210 years, respectively, to
the point where at least one party in each is now fully for strongman
rule as long as their party compatriots chose the strongman first.
It's almost like liberal democracy isn't as contagious as we thought,
and authoritarianism _is_ as contagious as XVIII., XIX., and XX.
century feared.
I normally don't hear that Indonesia is one of the parallels. Those
are usually Poland, Hungary, and now Brazil and the Philippines.

Nor do I think the Crimea and a couple of other provinces of Ukraine
compare in extent to Turkmenistan, let alone the rest of Ukraine, or
Kazakhstan, or ...

If we *don't* reassemble the Soviet Union, Brazil, not Russia, has
the fifth-largest population, per
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population>
(Of course if we *do*, the Soviets wind up in fourth place, pushing
Indonesia to fifth, whether or not the Baltics are included.)

And since Jair Bolsonaro was just elected, he's a relatively bad
example, not having consolidated power. As, for that matter, is
Trump. The US Republican Party has not yet established as clear an
authoritarian tendency as have Fidesz and Law and Justice.
(Admittedly, Duterte has worked faster at implementing "L'etat, c'est
moi".)

For that matter, in Israel we've just seen someone sometimes
considered akin to these guys effectively lose an election. Nor do
countries more traditionally authoritarian offer much hope to those
who love permanent dictatorships: al-Sisi is having to be *much*
more repressive than Mubarak was to maintain power, as Xi is compared
to people like Hu or Jiang. While authoritarianism seems more
effectively contagious than liberal democracy has turned out to be
(which makes sense, since it's a much older and simpler setup), it
has no more of a lock on the future than any other governmental
system, except possibly the Singularity.

Joe Bernstein
--
Joe Bernstein <***@gmail.com>
D B Davis
2019-10-25 13:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bernstein
Post by Chrysi Cat
because vast
amounts of the world's population are really subjects, rather than
citizens, starting with three out of the five largest populations in
China, Greater Russia (since it's clearly in the process of being
reassembled)
?
Post by Chrysi Cat
and arguably Indonesia, since the last has claimed to
have embraced liberal democracy but is obviously being run only by
strongmen.
??
Post by Chrysi Cat
And then India and the US started rejecting the liberal democratic
traditions that they'd had for 40 and over 210 years, respectively, to
the point where at least one party in each is now fully for strongman
rule as long as their party compatriots chose the strongman first.
It's almost like liberal democracy isn't as contagious as we thought,
and authoritarianism _is_ as contagious as XVIII., XIX., and XX.
century feared.
I normally don't hear that Indonesia is one of the parallels. Those
are usually Poland, Hungary, and now Brazil and the Philippines.
Nor do I think the Crimea and a couple of other provinces of Ukraine
compare in extent to Turkmenistan, let alone the rest of Ukraine, or
Kazakhstan, or ...
If we *don't* reassemble the Soviet Union, Brazil, not Russia, has
the fifth-largest population, per
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population>
(Of course if we *do*, the Soviets wind up in fourth place, pushing
Indonesia to fifth, whether or not the Baltics are included.)
And since Jair Bolsonaro was just elected, he's a relatively bad
example, not having consolidated power. As, for that matter, is
Trump. The US Republican Party has not yet established as clear an
authoritarian tendency as have Fidesz and Law and Justice.
(Admittedly, Duterte has worked faster at implementing "L'etat, c'est
moi".)
For that matter, in Israel we've just seen someone sometimes
considered akin to these guys effectively lose an election. Nor do
countries more traditionally authoritarian offer much hope to those
who love permanent dictatorships: al-Sisi is having to be *much*
more repressive than Mubarak was to maintain power, as Xi is compared
to people like Hu or Jiang. While authoritarianism seems more
effectively contagious than liberal democracy has turned out to be
(which makes sense, since it's a much older and simpler setup), it
has no more of a lock on the future than any other governmental
system, except possibly the Singularity.
May peace flourish as NutAndYahoo slouches /away from/ Bethlehem into
the sunset to meet Leviathan.

Ps 133 How good it is, how pleasant.
where people dwell as one!

ObSF:

_Leviathan '99_ (Bradbury)
https://www.oldtimeradiodownloads.com/sci-fi/bradbury-thirteen/ray-bradbury-68-05-03-at-leviathan-99



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Quadibloc
2019-10-19 17:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
Of course, these were public service messages, outside the actual comic itself.

Politics did enter there.

There was one time when a super villain stole Russia's entire nuclear arsenal,
and Superman took it back...

"Superman returning our atomic bombs! This has got to be a capitalist trick!"

"No, but don't use them in a sneak attack against the democracies. You'll get
back worse than you give."

If you go back to 1939, of course, one of Superman's first acts was to save an
Irishman (a black person would have been too controversial in those days) from a
lynch mob.

Of course, it really wasn't only blacks that were lynched, although they were
nearly always the victims... at that time, memories of the lynching of Leo Frank
would have been fresh.

Mort Weisinger, of course, had something in common with Siegel and Shuster, and
so *of course* Superman comics were part of the Sinister World Conspiracy to
brainwash our children into thinking that brotherhood was good and racism was
bad. If, of course, one is so crazy as to be inclined to think that this is a
Sinister World Conspiracty, that is.

And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!

And yet Donald Trump managed to get elected. Brainwashing is obviously not what
it's cracked up to be. (That is, the insidious kind done by the mass media. When
you can torture the subject, as in a North Korean prison, apparently it works.
Which is, of course, where the word came from.)

John Savard
Quadibloc
2019-10-19 17:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
What about Gold Key, Charlton, and American Comics Group?

Fred Iger, co-owner of ACG, was the son-in-law of the head of DC comics!

Charlton was founded by a partnership between John Santangelo and Ed Levy.

It's not surprising, though, that Jewish people played a large role in comic
books. They were produced cheaply, and their artists and writers were poorly
paid. I think I have even seen it claimed that Jews were excluded from lucrative
work as commercial artists for the ad agencies, which is what landed many of
them in the comics industry.

I can't see any hint, though, of any noticeable Jewish influence on the Western
Publishing Company or Gold Key comics. That didn't stop Russ Manning, with a
nice Swedish surname, from stumping for brotherhood. Before his stint on the
Tarzan comic, he did a back-up feature on it, "Brothers of the Spear".

It featured as its protagonists Dan-El and Natongo; unlike the Lone Ranger and
Tonto, though, it was at pains to present the two as equal partners.

John Savard
Kevrob
2019-10-19 21:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
What about Gold Key, Charlton, and American Comics Group?
Fred Iger, co-owner of ACG, was the son-in-law of the head of DC comics!
Charlton was founded by a partnership between John Santangelo and Ed Levy.
They met in prison. Santangelo was in for publishing copyrighted
song lyrics, without permission. Levy was a lawyer caught up in the
"Waterbury Toilet Scandal."

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/nyregion/kickbacks-and-payoffs-in-the-1930-s.html

I may go grocery shopping later today, or perhaps tomorrow.
One of the supermarkets I shop at is built on the old site
of the Charlton editorial offices, printing plant and distribution
center. Charlton/CDC did everything themselves.

http://twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/09empire.html

https://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2014/06/when-mob-met-charlton-comics.html
Post by Quadibloc
It's not surprising, though, that Jewish people played a large role in comic
books. They were produced cheaply, and their artists and writers were poorly
paid. I think I have even seen it claimed that Jews were excluded from lucrative
work as commercial artists for the ad agencies, which is what landed many of
them in the comics industry.
Either "don't hire Jews" or "don't hire too many" was very common
in the Bad Old Days,


If you haven't read Michael Chabon's Pulitzer Prize-winning
"The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay," do.
Post by Quadibloc
I can't see any hint, though, of any noticeable Jewish influence
on the Western Publishing Company or Gold Key comics.
You never heard of Kay Kamen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Kamen

The freebie Disney mags - "The March of Comics" - given
away by retailers like shoe stores had "K. K. Publications"
as their source, named for Kamen.

Before they ended their partnership, Western provided content for
Dell, founded by George Delacorte:

[quote]

George Thomas Delacorte, Jr., was born George Ferdinand Tonkonogy,
Jr., on June 20, 1893 in Brooklyn, New York. His father, also named
George F. Tonkonogy, was born in 1867 in Hungary of Jewish ancestry,
and emigrated to the U.S. in 1888. His mother, Sadie Adolphina Koenig,
was born in 1873 in Russia of Jewish ancestry, and emigrated to the
U.S. in 1886.

[/quote]

https://www.pulpartists.com/Delacorte.html

Western's Edward Henry Wadewitz was the child of German
immigrants, but not Jewish. He played baseball under
an assumed name on Sundays, so his parents wouldn't catch
him breaking the (Christian) Sabbath.

https://www.bellecitymag.com/2019/05/25/e-h-wadewitz-a-racinian-to-remember/
Post by Quadibloc
That didn't stop Russ Manning, with a
nice Swedish surname, from stumping for brotherhood. Before his stint on the
Tarzan comic, he did a back-up feature on it, "Brothers of the Spear".
It featured as its protagonists Dan-El and Natongo; unlike the Lone Ranger and
Tonto, though, it was at pains to present the two as equal partners.
AFAIK, Dan-El is no relation to Kal-El.

The Brothers eventually got their own book.

https://www.comics.org/issue/70669/cover/4/

Kevin R
p***@hotmail.com
2019-10-20 05:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
What about Gold Key, Charlton, and American Comics Group?
Fred Iger, co-owner of ACG, was the son-in-law of the head of DC comics!
Charlton was founded by a partnership between John Santangelo and Ed Levy.
It's not surprising, though, that Jewish people played a large role in comic
books. They were produced cheaply, and their artists and writers were poorly
paid. I think I have even seen it claimed that Jews were excluded from lucrative
work as commercial artists for the ad agencies, which is what landed many of
them in the comics industry.
I can't see any hint, though, of any noticeable Jewish influence on the Western
Publishing Company or Gold Key comics. That didn't stop Russ Manning, with a
nice Swedish surname, from stumping for brotherhood. Before his stint on the
Tarzan comic, he did a back-up feature on it, "Brothers of the Spear".
It featured as its protagonists Dan-El and Natongo; unlike the Lone Ranger and
Tonto, though, it was at pains to present the two as equal partners.
Was Russ Manning the artist for _Magnus: Robot Fighter_?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-10-20 05:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same
background, so there
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
was no escape for America's children!
What about Gold Key, Charlton, and American Comics Group?
Fred Iger, co-owner of ACG, was the son-in-law of the head of DC comics!
Charlton was founded by a partnership between John Santangelo and Ed Levy.
It's not surprising, though, that Jewish people played a large role in comic
books. They were produced cheaply, and their artists and writers were poorly
paid. I think I have even seen it claimed that Jews were excluded from
lucrative
Post by Quadibloc
work as commercial artists for the ad agencies, which is what landed many of
them in the comics industry.
I can't see any hint, though, of any noticeable Jewish influence on
the Western
Post by Quadibloc
Publishing Company or Gold Key comics. That didn't stop Russ Manning, with a
nice Swedish surname, from stumping for brotherhood. Before his stint on the
Tarzan comic, he did a back-up feature on it, "Brothers of the Spear".
It featured as its protagonists Dan-El and Natongo; unlike the Lone
Ranger and
Post by Quadibloc
Tonto, though, it was at pains to present the two as equal partners.
Was Russ Manning the artist for _Magnus: Robot Fighter_?
That's him. Wrote a lot of it too. (During the original run. He wasn't
around for the revivals).
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
2019-10-20 07:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same
background, so there
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
was no escape for America's children!
What about Gold Key, Charlton, and American Comics Group?
Fred Iger, co-owner of ACG, was the son-in-law of the head of DC comics!
Charlton was founded by a partnership between John Santangelo and Ed Levy.
It's not surprising, though, that Jewish people played a large role in comic
books. They were produced cheaply, and their artists and writers were poorly
paid. I think I have even seen it claimed that Jews were excluded from
lucrative
Post by Quadibloc
work as commercial artists for the ad agencies, which is what landed many of
them in the comics industry.
I can't see any hint, though, of any noticeable Jewish influence on
the Western
Post by Quadibloc
Publishing Company or Gold Key comics. That didn't stop Russ Manning, with a
nice Swedish surname, from stumping for brotherhood. Before his stint on the
Tarzan comic, he did a back-up feature on it, "Brothers of the Spear".
It featured as its protagonists Dan-El and Natongo; unlike the Lone
Ranger and
Post by Quadibloc
Tonto, though, it was at pains to present the two as equal partners.
Was Russ Manning the artist for _Magnus: Robot Fighter_?
That's him. Wrote a lot of it too. (During the original run. He wasn't
around for the revivals).
And in fact he departed the original run after the first 23 issues. (Issue 23
was a reprint of the first, but he _did_ do a new installment of the backup
feature, "The Aliens", for it.) A handful of issues were done with other
artists (one issue with Dan Spiegel, the Space Family Robinson artist; I don't
know what artist did the others, but some sources claim Russ Manning still did
the pencils for those, although I find that hard to believe), and then the book
went to reprints.

Before the revivals, Magnus: Robot Fighter also had a brief run as a backup
feature to Doctor Solar: Man of the Atom, also without Russ Manning.

John Savard
o***@gmail.com
2019-10-20 00:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
Of course, these were public service messages, outside the actual comic itself.
Politics did enter there.
There was one time when a super villain stole Russia's entire nuclear arsenal,
and Superman took it back...
"Superman returning our atomic bombs! This has got to be a capitalist trick!"
"No, but don't use them in a sneak attack against the democracies. You'll get
back worse than you give."
If you go back to 1939, of course, one of Superman's first acts was to save an
Irishman (a black person would have been too controversial in those days) from a
lynch mob.
Of course, it really wasn't only blacks that were lynched, although they were
nearly always the victims... at that time, memories of the lynching of Leo Frank
would have been fresh.
Mort Weisinger, of course, had something in common with Siegel and Shuster, and
so *of course* Superman comics were part of the Sinister World Conspiracy to
brainwash our children into thinking that brotherhood was good and racism was
bad. If, of course, one is so crazy as to be inclined to think that this is a
Sinister World Conspiracty, that is.
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
And yet Donald Trump managed to get elected. Brainwashing is obviously not what
it's cracked up to be. (That is, the insidious kind done by the mass media. When
you can torture the subject, as in a North Korean prison, apparently it works.
Which is, of course, where the word came from.)
John Savard
o***@gmail.com
2019-10-20 00:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
Of course, these were public service messages, outside the actual comic itself.
Politics did enter there.
There was one time when a super villain stole Russia's entire nuclear arsenal,
and Superman took it back...
"Superman returning our atomic bombs! This has got to be a capitalist trick!"
"No, but don't use them in a sneak attack against the democracies. You'll get
back worse than you give."
If you go back to 1939, of course, one of Superman's first acts was to save an
Irishman (a black person would have been too controversial in those days) from a
lynch mob.
Of course, it really wasn't only blacks that were lynched, although they were
nearly always the victims... at that time, memories of the lynching of Leo Frank
would have been fresh.
Mort Weisinger, of course, had something in common with Siegel and Shuster, and
so *of course* Superman comics were part of the Sinister World Conspiracy to
brainwash our children into thinking that brotherhood was good and racism was
bad. If, of course, one is so crazy as to be inclined to think that this is a
Sinister World Conspiracty, that is.
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
And yet Donald Trump managed to get elected. Brainwashing is obviously not what
it's cracked up to be. (That is, the insidious kind done by the mass media. When
you can torture the subject, as in a North Korean prison, apparently it works.
Which is, of course, where the word came from.)
John Savard
You have peaks of great thought..........then ruin it all with rants like your last paragraph (irresistible, I know.....)
Chrysi Cat
2019-10-20 01:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
50s-60s Supes wasn't partisan, but he was political.
Did you ever read the PSAs DC printed in their comics,
featuring Superman or his younger self, Superboy?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=396
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=400
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/gallery.php?page=psa&id=408
Some of them are straight-out propaganda supporting the UN, or teaching
kids to co-operate with the police.
Supes was big on brotherhood.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/08/25/superman-a-classic-message-restored
Of course, these were public service messages, outside the actual comic itself.
Politics did enter there.
There was one time when a super villain stole Russia's entire nuclear arsenal,
and Superman took it back...
"Superman returning our atomic bombs! This has got to be a capitalist trick!"
"No, but don't use them in a sneak attack against the democracies. You'll get
back worse than you give."
If you go back to 1939, of course, one of Superman's first acts was to save an
Irishman (a black person would have been too controversial in those days) from a
lynch mob.
Of course, it really wasn't only blacks that were lynched, although they were
nearly always the victims... at that time, memories of the lynching of Leo Frank
would have been fresh.
Mort Weisinger, of course, had something in common with Siegel and Shuster, and
so *of course* Superman comics were part of the Sinister World Conspiracy to
brainwash our children into thinking that brotherhood was good and racism was
bad. If, of course, one is so crazy as to be inclined to think that this is a
Sinister World Conspiracty, that is.
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
And yet Donald Trump managed to get elected. Brainwashing is obviously not what
it's cracked up to be. (That is, the insidious kind done by the mass media. When
you can torture the subject, as in a North Korean prison, apparently it works.
Which is, of course, where the word came from.)
John Savard
You have peaks of great thought..........then ruin it all with rants like your last paragraph (irresistible, I know.....)
I /thought/ he was being sarcastic about the 'insidious' part, and was
making the point that there's no need to fear the "Great Hebrew
Conspiracy" because the mainstream media can't brainwash anyone (though
THERE the problem exists that the 'alternative' media certainly can,
since there's still only about 50% support for conviction in an
impeachment trial and there's nearly as much of the population who's for
imprisoning every Democrat who had a position in either Obama
administration!)
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quadibloc
2019-10-20 07:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Quadibloc
And, of course, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were from the same background, so there
was no escape for America's children!
And yet Donald Trump managed to get elected. Brainwashing is obviously not what
it's cracked up to be. (That is, the insidious kind done by the mass media. When
you can torture the subject, as in a North Korean prison, apparently it works.
Which is, of course, where the word came from.)
You have peaks of great thought..........then ruin it all with rants like your last paragraph (irresistible, I know.....)
I /thought/ he was being sarcastic about the 'insidious' part, and was
making the point that there's no need to fear the "Great Hebrew
Conspiracy" because the mainstream media can't brainwash anyone (though
THERE the problem exists that the 'alternative' media certainly can,
since there's still only about 50% support for conviction in an
impeachment trial and there's nearly as much of the population who's for
imprisoning every Democrat who had a position in either Obama
administration!)
Well, since he said I spoiled it all with my _last_ paragraph, it doesn't seem
to me that he failed to recognize sarcasm, and thought I was an anti-Semite.
Instead, apparently I spoiled it all by daring to identify Donald Trump with
intolerance.

Given that there's still high unemployment in the industrialized world, I'm not
against trying to get control of immigration. Or to sort out trade imbalances.
So I don't think everyone who voted for Trump was racist, by a lnog shot.

But his stereotyping of Mexicans, his behavior towards women, his bullying
approach to politics... it seems to me that it's obvious that if there's
anything worthwhile you want achieved, he is not the man to do it.

John Savard
D B Davis
2019-10-21 16:32:59 UTC
Permalink
(My OP References: header got botched.)
Post by D B Davis
Yesterday, one of my clients gifted me with Wednesday's edition of the
_Casper Star Tribune_. It's the fat one, stuffed with inserts and
coupons. The newspaper wasn't for me, it was for my wife, to help me
earn some brownie points.
Soon after receiving the gift, my wife trolls me. "Do you know who
Weisinger is? He wants his father's papers back from U of W because of
Son of superman editor demands UW return historical archive after
Cheney comments
... An avid CNN watcher, Weisinger usually turns on the network
every day as idle watching, background noise to listen to while
he works. But before getting into his work, he said, he'll
usually watch five minutes of the conservative-leaning Fox News
Channel, in order to "see the distortions" of the day's events,
he said. ...
https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/son-of-superman-editor-demands-uw-return-historical-archive-after/article_517c6867-2283-5ac2-87b5-f7e5e3b78cfc.html
There's a couple of concerns with Weisinger's behavior.
First, Laramie County, where the University's located, is one of the two
reliably Democrat counties in the state. Punishing the University is
tantamount to disgruntled HRC voters blocking traffic in Democrat cities
in the aftermath of the 2016 election.
As an aside, Teton County, home of world class banksters, is the
other reliably Democrat county. (Jackson rolls in his grave.)
The second concern with Weisinger is that he watches TV and then bull
ships himself into believing that it's merely "background noise." He
doesn't give propaganda purveyors nearly enough credit.
Perhaps you'd like to repost this in rec.arts.comics.dc.universe?
Unca Mort's progeny should be more concerned about the lack of
"truth, justice and the American way" in the way Joe Shuster and
Jerry Siegel were treated by National-DC, maybe?
I understand that donating personal papers to an archive can be complicated,
due to issues of copyright, tax deductions, access, etc. Is the university
even required to heed the wishes of the heirs? Would they have to pay back
"1001 Valuable Things You Can Get Free," after all!*
* http://fancyclopedia.org/mort-weisinger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_Weisinger
Post by D B Davis
Re-posted to rec.arts.comics.dc.universe.
You remind me of a third concern with Weisinger. DC made a big
production out of dropping "the American way" during Dubya's invasions.
As a fellow member of the global "tribe" of entrepreneurs, Unca Mort's
thriftiness is appreciated by me. A couple of _Boardroom Classics_ [1]
sit on my own shelves.
Your link above says that Unca Mort collaborated with Ackerman on
the _The Time Traveller_ fanzine. Some of Ackerman's papers are also at
UW along with some of Stan Lee's.
The next state over, Kansas, has a sfnal collection. [2] It's
counterintuitive for such low population states to hold these papers,
which lends credibility to a big tax loophole somewhere in the mix.
Anyhow, Weisinger's announcement seems more publicity stunt than
anything. It'll probably be quietly forgotten.

Note.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1405485.Boardroom_Classics
[2] http://www.sfcenter.ku.edu/research-collection.htm



Thank you,

-- Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Perhaps you'd like to repost this in rec.arts.comics.dc.universe?

Unca Mort's progeny should be more concerned about the lack of
"truth, justice and the American way" in the way Joe Shuster and
Jerry Siegel were treated by National-DC, maybe?

I understand that donating personal papers to an archive can be complicated,
due to issues of copyright, tax deductions, access, etc. Is the university
even required to heed the wishes of the heirs? Would they have to pay back
the IRS for any tax benefit Mort got? This was the man who wrote
"1001 Valuable Things You Can Get Free," after all!*

* http://fancyclopedia.org/mort-weisinger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_Weisinger



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Loading...