Discussion:
OTish - Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
(too old to reply)
a425couple
2019-05-13 23:45:15 UTC
Permalink
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists

(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)

Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners look to
the stars

Ian Sample Science editor

@iansample
Sun 12 May 2019 13.24 EDT Last modified on Sun 12 May 2019 15.45 EDT
Shares
481
Alien film shuttle craft
Interplanetary mining, as envisaged in the film Alien (1979).
Photograph: 20th Century Fox/Kobal/Rex/Shutterstock

Great swathes of the solar system should be preserved as official “space
wilderness” to protect planets, moons and other heavenly bodies from
rampant mining and other forms of industrial exploitation, scientists say.

The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be placed
off-limits to human development, leaving little more than an eighth for
space firms to mine for precious metals, minerals and other valuable
materials.

While the limit would protect pristine worlds from the worst excesses of
human activity, its primary goal is to ensure that humanity avoids a
catastrophic future in which all of the resources within its reach are
permanently used up.

“If we don’t think about this now, we will go ahead as we always have,
and in a few hundred years we will face an extreme crisis, much worse
than we have on Earth now,” said Martin Elvis, a senior astrophysicist
at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. “Once you’ve exploited the solar system, there’s nowhere
left to go.”

Fledgling space mining companies have set their sights on trillions of
pounds worth of iron and precious metals locked up in asteroids, along
with valuable minerals and trillions of tonnes of water on the moon. In
Britain, the Asteroid Mining Corporation hopes to send a satellite into
orbit in the coming years to prospect for nearby asteroids.

Precious metals such as platinum and gold could be ferried back to
Earth, but much of the mined material would be used in space to build
habitats on the moon and make rocket fuel. The European Space Agency has
plans for a moon village that foresees buildings and equipment installed
on the lunar surface. Meanwhile water ice, such as that beneath the
lunar poles, can be split into hydrogen and oxygen and used to make fuel
for probes that launch from space instead of Earth.


How would asteroid mining work? A visual guide
Read more
Working with Tony Milligan, a philosopher at King’s College London,
Elvis analysed how soon humans might use up the solar system’s most
accessible resources should space mining take off. They found that an
annual growth rate of 3.5% would use up an eighth of the solar system’s
realistic resources in 400 years. At that point, humanity would have
only 60 years to apply the brakes and avoid exhausting the supply
completely.

Because humans might struggle to mine the sun, or extract useful
materials from Jupiter, a gas giant with more mass than the rest of the
solar system’s planets combined, the researchers see asteroids, the
moon, Mars and other rocky planets as the most realistic targets for
space miners. Elvis points out that one eighth of the iron in the
asteroid belt is more than a million times greater that the estimated
iron ore reserves on Earth, which may suffice for centuries.

Expert debate: should there be a space race to mine asteroids?

But which areas to protect from mining is a nuanced decision, the
scientists write in a forthcoming issue of Acta Astronautica. The Valles
Marineris on Mars, the largest canyon in the solar system, might deserve
protection as much as the Grand Canyon is protected on Earth. But there
are other sites too, said Elvis. “Do we want cities on the near side of
the moon that light up at night? Would that be inspiring or horrifying?
And what about the rings of Saturn? They are beautiful, almost pure
water ice. Is it OK to mine those so that in 100 years they are gone?”

“If everything goes right, we could be sending our first mining missions
into space within 10 years,” he added. “Once it starts and somebody
makes an enormous profit, there will be the equivalent of a gold rush.
We need to take it seriously.”
a425couple
2019-05-14 03:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners look to
the stars ------
Great swathes of the solar system should be preserved as official “space
wilderness” to protect planets, moons and other heavenly bodies from
rampant mining and other forms of industrial exploitation, scientists say.
The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be placed
off-limits to human development,
It just seems that reserving 85% to be left natural,
is too high. But, depending on where /or what, they
place in the 15% to consume, or use, or exploit,
that could be a breakthrough decision.

If a person/corporation knew they could fully commercialize
xyz asteroid, they might decide to "go for it"
and advance man kind's space program 50 years worth
is less than 5 years.

I'm reminded of the medieval breakthrough time that
came to England first, the merchants / capitalists
did not mind a tax, set and certain, because that was
so much better than uncertainty and possible
monarchy or other whims and double dealing and treachery.
Robert Woodward
2019-05-14 04:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-min
ing-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners look to
the stars
What we have here is the Asteroid Salvation Society: Homesteaders
Organized for Lasting Economic Strength

I came up with this title over 40 years ago and I finally can get to use
it!
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-14 17:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners look to
the stars
Ian Sample Science editor
Sun 12 May 2019 13.24 EDT Last modified on Sun 12 May 2019 15.45 EDT
Shares
481
 Alien film shuttle craft
 Interplanetary mining, as envisaged in the film Alien (1979).
Photograph: 20th Century Fox/Kobal/Rex/Shutterstock
Great swathes of the solar system should be preserved as official “space
wilderness” to protect planets, moons and other heavenly bodies from
rampant mining and other forms of industrial exploitation, scientists say.
The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be placed
off-limits to human development, leaving little more than an eighth for
space firms to mine for precious metals, minerals and other valuable
materials.
While the limit would protect pristine worlds from the worst excesses of
human activity, its primary goal is to ensure that humanity avoids a
catastrophic future in which all of the resources within its reach are
permanently used up.
“If we don’t think about this now, we will go ahead as we always have,
and in a few hundred years we will face an extreme crisis, much worse
than we have on Earth now,” said Martin Elvis, a senior astrophysicist
at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. “Once you’ve exploited the solar system, there’s nowhere
left to go.”
Fledgling space mining companies have set their sights on trillions of
pounds worth of iron and precious metals locked up in asteroids, along
with valuable minerals and trillions of tonnes of water on the moon. In
Britain, the Asteroid Mining Corporation hopes to send a satellite into
orbit in the coming years to prospect for nearby asteroids.
Precious metals such as platinum and gold could be ferried back to
Earth, but much of the mined material would be used in space to build
habitats on the moon and make rocket fuel. The European Space Agency has
plans for a moon village that foresees buildings and equipment installed
on the lunar surface. Meanwhile water ice, such as that beneath the
lunar poles, can be split into hydrogen and oxygen and used to make fuel
for probes that launch from space instead of Earth.
How would asteroid mining work? A visual guide
 Read more
Working with Tony Milligan, a philosopher at King’s College London,
Elvis analysed how soon humans might use up the solar system’s most
accessible resources should space mining take off. They found that an
annual growth rate of 3.5% would use up an eighth of the solar system’s
realistic resources in 400 years. At that point, humanity would have
only 60 years to apply the brakes and avoid exhausting the supply
completely.
Because humans might struggle to mine the sun, or extract useful
materials from Jupiter, a gas giant with more mass than the rest of the
solar system’s planets combined, the researchers see asteroids, the
moon, Mars and other rocky planets as the most realistic targets for
space miners. Elvis points out that one eighth of the iron in the
asteroid belt is more than a million times greater that the estimated
iron ore reserves on Earth, which may suffice for centuries.
Expert debate: should there be a space race to mine asteroids?
But which areas to protect from mining is a nuanced decision, the
scientists write in a forthcoming issue of Acta Astronautica. The Valles
Marineris on Mars, the largest canyon in the solar system, might deserve
protection as much as the Grand Canyon is protected on Earth. But there
are other sites too, said Elvis. “Do we want cities on the near side of
the moon that light up at night? Would that be inspiring or horrifying?
And what about the rings of Saturn? They are beautiful, almost pure
water ice. Is it OK to mine those so that in 100 years they are gone?”
“If everything goes right, we could be sending our first mining missions
into space within 10 years,” he added. “Once it starts and somebody
makes an enormous profit, there will be the equivalent of a gold rush.
We need to take it seriously.”
I am fine with whatever asteroid mining goes on as long as they don't
move one to Earth orbit and accidentally drop it into the gravity well:
https://www.amazon.com/Asteroid-Travis-S-Taylor-ebook/dp/B01IDRGJBU/

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-14 18:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-sys
tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their claim, that
something called a "solar system" exists, much less scientist or what
they say.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
a425couple
2019-05-14 20:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-sys
tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their claim, that
something called a "solar system" exists, much less scientist or what
they say.
Well,,,, yes, that citation and story was from
the Guardian. But there are plenty similar out there.
It was not a whole cloth fabrication of theirs.

here is different one:
https://bgr.com/2019/05/13/space-mining-gold-rush/

The next ‘gold rush’ will happen in space, but should we try to prevent it?

Mike Wehner @MikeWehner
May 13th, 2019 at 5:13 PM

Earth is a pretty big place, but it has a finite amount of resources.
Mining companies that seek to exploit untouched parts of our planet are
quickly running out of places to dig, and scientists belive it won’t be
long before both private corporations and world governments begin
setting their sights on extraterrestrial mining opportunities.

Everyone seems to think that mining asteroids and even other planets
might soon become big business. Goldman Sachs, for instance, predicts
that asteroid mining will produce the world’s first trillionaire, and
that’s not as big of a stretch as you might think. Now, researchers are
wondering how mankind will manage the space gold rush which seems all
but inevitable.

Just as environmentalists on Earth seek to protect much of the remaining
untouched parts of the world from human encroachment, scientists are
asking governments around the world to consider doing the same for other
planets.

A new paper in Acta Astronautica addresses this in a fairly
straightforward way. The scientific duo behind the work suggests that we
adopt a “1/8 Principle” in which humanity agrees to place a limit on
Solar System colonization and development. It would be responsible for
mankind to avoid exploiting any more than one-eighth of our neighboring
planets, leaving the rest as “wilderness.”

“Population growth and climate change are instances of unchecked
exponential growth,” the researchers write. “Each places strains upon
our available resources, each is a recognized problem that we would like
to control, but attempts to do so at this comparatively late stage in
their development have not been encouraging.”

It’s hard to argue with that. Mankind has shown a complete inability to
adequately account for the resource drain it imposes on the planet.
Endless reproducing and failing to find sustainable ways of supporting
its massive weight, humanity is an unchecked threat to the Earth, and
soon the same could be true of other planets in our system.

Should we put measures in place to prevent planets like Mars from being
stripped of resources being used to feed mankind’s insatiable appetite,
or should companies and world governments be allowed to exploit as much
of the Solar System as they can get their hands on? This is a question
that should be considered now, because we’re not far from seeing the
result play out right before our eyes.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-14 23:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-s
ys tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their
claim, that something called a "solar system" exists, much less
scientist or what they say.
Well,,,, yes, that citation and story was from
the Guardian. But there are plenty similar out there.
It was not a whole cloth fabrication of theirs.
Always possible, but without those links, I accept nothing from the
Guardian. I don't accept their claim that *they* exist.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Alan Baker
2019-05-14 23:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-s
ys tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their
claim, that something called a "solar system" exists, much less
scientist or what they say.
Well,,,, yes, that citation and story was from
the Guardian. But there are plenty similar out there.
It was not a whole cloth fabrication of theirs.
Always possible, but without those links, I accept nothing from the
Guardian. I don't accept their claim that *they* exist.
How convenient for you...
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-14 23:52:34 UTC
Permalink
I asked you first.

Why are you so afraid to answer the questions, Alan?

So exactly what part of the CBP numbers on how many illegals are
crossing the border per month right now (90,000 in March) do you
dispute, and why?
Be specific. Name names. Who is the head of the criminal conspiracy
to inflate the numbers?

Or are you running away, tail between your legs, again?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
a425couple
2019-05-15 03:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-s
ys tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their
claim, that something called a "solar system" exists, much less
scientist or what they say.
Well,,,, yes, that citation and story was from
the Guardian. But there are plenty similar out there.
It was not a whole cloth fabrication of theirs.
Always possible, but without those links, I accept nothing from the
Guardian. I don't accept their claim that *they* exist.
OK. . . .
(Meanwhile, can anyone explain what is the story with
Express.co.uk ? Talk about sensational yellow journalism
taken to it's extreem. Every other day or so they seem to
be claiming they have found MH370,, and almost like they
have a signed confession from a pilot or co-pilot.
OR that a huge asteroid is aimed right at us. )

But meanwhile, here are a couple more about possible
agreements / limits on mining:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cognitiveworld/2019/05/13/the-race-to-mine-space/#7ca415ae1a70

The Race To Mine Space
Jayshree Pandya
Introduction
As our planet contends with resource scarcity, a potential solution can
be found by traversing the great unknown -- outer space. Metals,
minerals, and energy sources have been found to exist in near-infinite
quantities within our solar system, and political and commercial
interest in space mining is growing as the concept is increasingly
becoming realistic and achievable. ----
Key questions remain regarding the technology required to conduct space
mining and the policies that will govern this new frontier.
Acknowledging this emerging reality, Risk Group initiated a much-needed
discussion on Space Mining with Daniel Faber, a Pioneer of Space
Technologies and Mining, on Risk Roundup.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/243206/20190513/scientists-call-for-space-mining-laws-to-protect-preserve-solar-system-s-wilderness.htm

Scientists Call For Space Mining Laws To Protect, Preserve Solar
System’s Wilderness
13 May 2019, 7:20 am EDT By Naia Carlos Tech Times
Near-Earth asteroids could contain an abundance of precious metals
worth billions of dollars. With Earth stripped of much of its resources,
scientists are proposing limitations on human development in the solar
system. ( NASA | JPL-Caltech )
Space exploration is hitting its stride, making the prospect of space
mining and other types of industrial activity very likely possibilities
in the near future.
To avoid the exploitation of the still-pristine worlds beyond Earth —
which could lead to the total exhaustion of all the resources within
humanity's reach — scientists are proposing to limit the expanse of
space that space firms could gain access to.
Human Activity In Space Should Be Limited, Says Scientists
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-15 04:52:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 May 2019 20:11:57 -0700
Post by a425couple
To avoid the exploitation of the still-pristine worlds beyond Earth —
which could lead to the total exhaustion of all the resources within
humanity's reach — scientists are proposing to limit the expanse of
space that space firms could gain access to. Human Activity In Space
Should Be Limited, Says Scientists
Short-sighted, I say. How else shall we build our Dyson sphere?
--
Cybe R. Wizard

The internet: Cybe R.'s space.
Cybe R. Wizard
f***@gmail.com
2019-05-15 09:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi all
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Short-sighted, I say. How else shall we build our Dyson sphere?
Why so ambitious-less? Why should we stop at just one Sphere? There is a WHOLE universe out there with apparently no prior claimants.
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
--
Cybe R. Wizard
The internet: Cybe R.'s space.
Cybe R. Wizard
Regards
Frank
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-15 15:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 20:11:57 -0700
Post by a425couple
To avoid the exploitation of the still-pristine worlds beyond Earth —
which could lead to the total exhaustion of all the resources within
humanity's reach — scientists are proposing to limit the expanse of
space that space firms could gain access to. Human Activity In Space
Should Be Limited, Says Scientists
Short-sighted, I say. How else shall we build our Dyson sphere?
By disassembling the planets of _other_ star systems, of course!
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Mike Van Pelt
2019-05-15 19:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 20:11:57 -0700
To avoid the exploitation of the still-pristine worlds beyond Earth —
which could lead to the total exhaustion of all the resources within
humanity's reach — scientists are proposing to limit the expanse of
space that space firms could gain access to. Human Activity In Space
Should Be Limited, Says Scientists
Short-sighted, I say. How else shall we build our Dyson sphere?
By disassembling the planets of _other_ star systems, of course!
Why stop at Kardashev III?
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Kevrob
2019-05-15 00:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-sys
tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their claim, that
something called a "solar system" exists, much less scientist or what
they say.
Sure they weren't discussing the "sloar stysem?" :)

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2019-05-15 21:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-sys
tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their claim, that
something called a "solar system" exists, much less scientist or what
they say.
HE says THEY are an untrustworthy witness??

Incidentally - you'll have noticed that The Guardian
web site asks for readers to support it financially,
to continue to read them. As did one of the other
web sites that you copied from this month; you included
that request in the page text that you copied.

But, why would or should we ever do that, when you're
prepared to put their articles up here for us to read,
for no money?

Or, are you about to start charging us for the service?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-15 21:53:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:01:41 UTC+1, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-
sys tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their
claim, that something called a "solar system" exists, much less
scientist or what they say.
HE says THEY are an untrustworthy witness??
Incidentally - you'll have noticed that The Guardian
web site asks for readers to support it financially,
to continue to read them. As did one of the other
web sites that you copied from this month; you included
that request in the page text that you copied.
But, why would or should we ever do that, when you're
prepared to put their articles up here for us to read,
for no money?
Or, are you about to start charging us for the service?
Check your attributions, retard. I don't quote entire articles. Ever.

Dumbass.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
Alan Baker
2019-05-15 21:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tuesday, 14 May 2019 19:01:41 UTC+1, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-
sys tem-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
This is The Guardian. I'm not willing to accept, on their
claim, that something called a "solar system" exists, much less
scientist or what they say.
HE says THEY are an untrustworthy witness??
Incidentally - you'll have noticed that The Guardian
web site asks for readers to support it financially,
to continue to read them. As did one of the other
web sites that you copied from this month; you included
that request in the page text that you copied.
But, why would or should we ever do that, when you're
prepared to put their articles up here for us to read,
for no money?
Or, are you about to start charging us for the service?
Check your attributions, retard. I don't quote entire articles. Ever.
More like you never quote anything...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Dumbass.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-16 15:20:46 UTC
Permalink
I asked you first.

Why are you so afraid to answer the questions, Alan?

So exactly what part of the CBP numbers on how many illegals are
crossing the border per month right now (90,000 in March) do you
dispute, and why?
Be specific. Name names. Who is the head of the criminal conspiracy
to inflate the numbers?

Or are you running away, tail between your legs, again?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
Alan Baker
2019-05-16 16:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
I asked you first.
No, you really didn't, coward.

:-)
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Why are you so afraid to answer the questions, Alan?
So exactly what part of the CBP numbers on how many illegals are
crossing the border per month right now (90,000 in March) do you
dispute, and why?
Be specific. Name names. Who is the head of the criminal conspiracy
to inflate the numbers?
Or are you running away, tail between your legs, again?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2019-05-16 17:48:42 UTC
Permalink
I asked you first.

Why are you so afraid to answer the questions, Alan?

So exactly what part of the CBP numbers on how many illegals are
crossing the border per month right now (90,000 in March) do you
dispute, and why?
Be specific. Name names. Who is the head of the criminal conspiracy
to inflate the numbers?

Or are you running away, tail between your legs, again?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-14 20:36:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:45:15 -0700
Post by a425couple
The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be placed
off-limits to human development, leaving little more than an eighth
for space firms to mine for precious metals, minerals and other
valuable materials.
Eighty-five percent would be all of Jupiter and most of Saturn, both
pretty useless for mining for any foreseeable technology. I guess that
means it is open season on any rocky planet!
--
Cybe R. Wizard
My other computer is a HOLMES IV with the Mycroft OS (don't I wish)
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-14 20:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:45:15 -0700
Post by a425couple
The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be placed
off-limits to human development, leaving little more than an eighth
for space firms to mine for precious metals, minerals and other
valuable materials.
Eighty-five percent would be all of Jupiter and most of Saturn, both
pretty useless for mining for any foreseeable technology. I guess that
means it is open season on any rocky planet!
Asteroid Belt.

Lynn
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-14 21:15:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:50:27 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:45:15 -0700
Post by a425couple
The proposal calls for more than 85% of the solar system to be
placed off-limits to human development, leaving little more than
an eighth for space firms to mine for precious metals, minerals
and other valuable materials.
Eighty-five percent would be all of Jupiter and most of Saturn, both
pretty useless for mining for any foreseeable technology. I guess
that means it is open season on any rocky planet!
Asteroid Belt.
Lynn
...or planetoid (or planetesimal)! Yes.
--
Cybe R. Wizard
"'Brainwash' is a term that comes down to us from the Communist
movement of the Late Dark Ages...
Lorenzo
"Double Star" Robert A. Heinlein
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-14 20:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners look to
the stars
...

I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !

Lynn
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-14 21:17:24 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
--
Cybe R. Wizard
Here cash is all powerful, the idol placed highest, whether one sweat,
thieve, grind others down, or scheme for it.
Fafhrd, Fritz Leiber's "Ill Met In Lankhmar"
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-15 00:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.

Lynn
Kevrob
2019-05-15 02:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
With lasers you could have "space sharks" wearing them like hats!


Kevin R
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-15 03:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Those would take _way_ too long to arrive on target.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-15 17:50:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ?  Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Those would take _way_ too long to arrive on target.
Heh. You got me.

Lynn
James Nicoll
2019-05-15 03:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Inner Oort is supposed to be 2000 AU. Hohmann orbit to 1 AU takes
30,000 years plus. Non-minimum energy orbits take more than the
minumum energy.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
J. Clarke
2019-05-15 08:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Lynn McGuire
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Inner Oort is supposed to be 2000 AU. Hohmann orbit to 1 AU takes
30,000 years plus. Non-minimum energy orbits take more than the
minumum energy.
Well DUHH. Why is one constrained to use minimum energy?
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-15 04:47:42 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take way
too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
--
Cybe R. Wizard

"There's no justice. There's only me."
Judge Dredd
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-15 17:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take way
too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.

Lynn
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-15 19:52:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 May 2019 12:51:18 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Post by a425couple
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take
way too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.
Lynn
We'll use that REALLY FAST light... ;-]
--
Cybe R. Wizard

"Don't worry, I'll take care of the lightning."
Dr. Emmet Brown, "Back To The Future"
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-15 20:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Wed, 15 May 2019 12:51:18 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Post by a425couple
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take
way too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.
Lynn
We'll use that REALLY FAST light... ;-]
Or just make the aperture wide enough they can't get outside the target
zone in time. *hee hee hee*
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Cybe R. Wizard
2019-05-15 23:36:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 May 2019 13:31:46 -0700
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Wed, 15 May 2019 12:51:18 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and
productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space
miners look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Post by a425couple
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would
take way too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.
Lynn
We'll use that REALLY FAST light... ;-]
Or just make the aperture wide enough they can't get outside the
target zone in time. *hee hee hee*
BIG flashlight. "Get that light outa my eyes."
--
Cybe R. Wizard

Omniscient, omnipotent, omnivorous and omnipresent all begin with Om.
Ashwin Sanghi
...so /some people/ equate them.
me
Lynn McGuire
2019-05-15 20:46:11 UTC
Permalink
On 5/15/2019 2:52 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
...
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take
way too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.
Lynn
We'll use that REALLY FAST light... ;-]
In the far future in Schlock Mercenary, a psychotic A.I. uses long gun
technology and wormholes to shoot plasma through spaceships and planets:
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-24

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2019-05-15 20:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 19:28:04 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Tue, 14 May 2019 15:53:39 -0500
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by a425couple
from
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/12/protect-solar-system-space-mining-gold-rush-say-scientists
(This is at the core of so many sci-fi books
((and even the recent TV series MARS))
what is the proper balance, between science, and productivity?)
Protect solar system from mining 'gold rush', say scientists
Proposal calls for wilderness protection as startup space miners
look to > the stars
...
I wonder how they will enforce the ban ? Space Patrol !
Lynn
Gigantic lasers in the Oort cloud.
I would buy throwing icy comets from the Oort Cloud better.
Lynn
At the closest almost 2 trillion miles away, enforcement would take way
too long. We can't wait that long for a cop.
The gigantic lasers are going to take a while also.
That's one of the reasons you base them inside Mercury's orbit.

The other reason should be obvious.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Loading...