Discussion:
cost of used dead tree books jumps when new is not available
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 05:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
goes ways up when the new books run out ? For instance:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-05-17 12:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.

In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David Johnston
2021-05-17 16:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
Artifact of automated price setting.
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 17:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new books
available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/

And Amazon is doing something weird. This book is second in a series of
three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list. But the
first book is still listed as a series of one book. I have told Amazon
of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/

I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.

Lynn
David Johnston
2021-05-17 19:50:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
    https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new books
available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series of
three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But the
first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told Amazon
of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.

https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQWE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=digital-text&sr=1-1

They seem to have messed up the switchover.
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 19:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
    https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new
books available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series
of three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But
the first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told
Amazon of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQWE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=digital-text&sr=1-1
They seem to have messed up the switchover.
I agree about the omnibus but it is heavy. I prefer the MMPBs or trade
paperbacks of the originals.

And the switchover is a mess.

Lynn
Paul S Person
2021-05-18 17:18:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 May 2021 14:55:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
    https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new
books available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series
of three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But
the first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told
Amazon of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQWE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=digital-text&sr=1-1
They seem to have messed up the switchover.
I agree about the omnibus but it is heavy. I prefer the MMPBs or trade
paperbacks of the originals.
The prior link is an $8.99 ebook. Which isn't a bad price for three
novels.

Amazon lists a paperback for $25.52:
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-David-Weber-2006-02-01/dp/B01FKV0GM0/ref=sr_1_6?crid=MJSY5TO26LKT&dchild=1&keywords=dahak+series+by+david+weber&qid=1621357723&s=digital-text&sprefix=dahak+%2Cdigital-text%2C262&sr=1-6-catcorr
but whether it is mass market or trade I have no idea.

However, if I take $9 as the current price of a mass market paperback
and $15 as the current price of a trade paperback (both, BTW, are
WAGs, and so may be completely wrong), then $25.52 would not seem to
be excessively expensive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
And the switchover is a mess.
Amazon claims the ebook is "Dahak combo volumes Book 1" but checking
out "Dahak series" only produces the omnibus and the three parts.

Just another junk series, I guess.

Maybe Amazon just lets anybody who wants to set these "series" up and
then makes no effort at all to ensure that they make any kind of
sense.

It's a great pity. I might have enjoyed reading further novels in this
series, if they had ever been written.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2021-05-18 19:02:35 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:18:11 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
Maybe Amazon just lets anybody who wants to set these "series" up and
then makes no effort at all to ensure that they make any kind of
sense.
No "maybe" about it; that's exactly what they do.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer & the Steam-Powered Saurians.
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-18 20:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 17 May 2021 14:55:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
    https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new
books available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series
of three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But
the first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told
Amazon of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQWE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=digital-text&sr=1-1
They seem to have messed up the switchover.
I agree about the omnibus but it is heavy. I prefer the MMPBs or trade
paperbacks of the originals.
The prior link is an $8.99 ebook. Which isn't a bad price for three
novels.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-David-Weber-2006-02-01/dp/B01FKV0GM0/ref=sr_1_6?crid=MJSY5TO26LKT&dchild=1&keywords=dahak+series+by+david+weber&qid=1621357723&s=digital-text&sprefix=dahak+%2Cdigital-text%2C262&sr=1-6-catcorr
but whether it is mass market or trade I have no idea.
However, if I take $9 as the current price of a mass market paperback
and $15 as the current price of a trade paperback (both, BTW, are
WAGs, and so may be completely wrong), then $25.52 would not seem to
be excessively expensive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
And the switchover is a mess.
Amazon claims the ebook is "Dahak combo volumes Book 1" but checking
out "Dahak series" only produces the omnibus and the three parts.
Just another junk series, I guess.
Maybe Amazon just lets anybody who wants to set these "series" up and
then makes no effort at all to ensure that they make any kind of
sense.
It's a great pity. I might have enjoyed reading further novels in this
series, if they had ever been written.
https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/david-weber/

BTW, the David Weber's Safehold series (10 books so far) is a rewrite of
the Dahak series, in my opinion.

Lynn
Robert Woodward
2021-05-19 05:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 17 May 2021 14:55:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
   
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new
books available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series
of three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But
the first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told
Amazon of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQW
E/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=dig
ital-text&sr=1-1
They seem to have messed up the switchover.
I agree about the omnibus but it is heavy. I prefer the MMPBs or trade
paperbacks of the originals.
The prior link is an $8.99 ebook. Which isn't a bad price for three
novels.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-David-Weber-2006-02-01/dp/B01FKV0GM0/ref
=sr_1_6?crid=MJSY5TO26LKT&dchild=1&keywords=dahak+series+by+david+weber&qid=
1621357723&s=digital-text&sprefix=dahak+%2Cdigital-text%2C262&sr=1-6-catcorr
but whether it is mass market or trade I have no idea.
However, if I take $9 as the current price of a mass market paperback
and $15 as the current price of a trade paperback (both, BTW, are
WAGs, and so may be completely wrong), then $25.52 would not seem to
be excessively expensive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
And the switchover is a mess.
Amazon claims the ebook is "Dahak combo volumes Book 1" but checking
out "Dahak series" only produces the omnibus and the three parts.
Just another junk series, I guess.
Maybe Amazon just lets anybody who wants to set these "series" up and
then makes no effort at all to ensure that they make any kind of
sense.
It's a great pity. I might have enjoyed reading further novels in this
series, if they had ever been written.
https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/david-weber/
BTW, the David Weber's Safehold series (10 books so far) is a rewrite of
the Dahak series, in my opinion.
Er, NO!

Three decades ago, David Weber presented several proposed series to Jim
Baen (the Safehold series was one of them). Jim Baen chose Honor
Harrington. When writing the 3rd Dahak title, Weber used some ideas from
then unused Safehold writeup. The only other resemblance the two have is
the existence of xenophobic and genocidal aliens.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-21 05:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 17 May 2021 14:55:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by David Johnston
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
Well, just said by itself, that's hardly surprising: Supply & Demand.
In this case it does seem odd that the used paperback is more dear than
the current hardcover..
I am seeing this all over Amazon for SF books that do not have new
books available anymore and the used books go up in price significantly.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/B0073AOEW0/
And Amazon is doing something weird.  This book is second in a series
of three books but Amazon has removed it from the series list.  But
the first book is still listed as a series of one book.  I have told
Amazon of the problem but I doubt that I am getting past the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/
I would have thought that the publishers would get a new printing made
or move the book to POD (print on demand) but neither of those seem to
happen anymore.
The reason why it isn't a series any more is because it's an omnibus.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-Dahak-combo-volumes-ebook/dp/B00APADQW
E/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=armageddon+inheritance&qid=1621280692&s=dig
ital-text&sr=1-1
They seem to have messed up the switchover.
I agree about the omnibus but it is heavy. I prefer the MMPBs or trade
paperbacks of the originals.
The prior link is an $8.99 ebook. Which isn't a bad price for three
novels.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-David-Weber-2006-02-01/dp/B01FKV0GM0/ref
=sr_1_6?crid=MJSY5TO26LKT&dchild=1&keywords=dahak+series+by+david+weber&qid=
1621357723&s=digital-text&sprefix=dahak+%2Cdigital-text%2C262&sr=1-6-catcorr
but whether it is mass market or trade I have no idea.
However, if I take $9 as the current price of a mass market paperback
and $15 as the current price of a trade paperback (both, BTW, are
WAGs, and so may be completely wrong), then $25.52 would not seem to
be excessively expensive.
Post by Lynn McGuire
And the switchover is a mess.
Amazon claims the ebook is "Dahak combo volumes Book 1" but checking
out "Dahak series" only produces the omnibus and the three parts.
Just another junk series, I guess.
Maybe Amazon just lets anybody who wants to set these "series" up and
then makes no effort at all to ensure that they make any kind of
sense.
It's a great pity. I might have enjoyed reading further novels in this
series, if they had ever been written.
https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/david-weber/
BTW, the David Weber's Safehold series (10 books so far) is a rewrite of
the Dahak series, in my opinion.
Er, NO!
Three decades ago, David Weber presented several proposed series to Jim
Baen (the Safehold series was one of them). Jim Baen chose Honor
Harrington. When writing the 3rd Dahak title, Weber used some ideas from
then unused Safehold writeup. The only other resemblance the two have is
the existence of xenophobic and genocidal aliens.
Thanks, I'll stick with my theory.

Lynn
Bill Gill
2021-05-17 13:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
   https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
I have noticed that some used books on Amazon are listed at several
hundred dollars. I haven't noticed that there is anything special
about them, they just have ridiculously high prices.

Bill
James Nicoll
2021-05-17 13:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
   https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
I have noticed that some used books on Amazon are listed at several
hundred dollars. I haven't noticed that there is anything special
about them, they just have ridiculously high prices.
My asssumption on stuff like that is it's money laundering.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-17 19:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
   https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
I have noticed that some used books on Amazon are listed at several
hundred dollars. I haven't noticed that there is anything special
about them, they just have ridiculously high prices.
My asssumption on stuff like that is it's money laundering.
Arbitrage.

Lynn
Garrett Wollman
2021-05-17 15:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
I have noticed that some used books on Amazon are listed at several
hundred dollars. I haven't noticed that there is anything special
about them, they just have ridiculously high prices.
With used books, there are also pricing algorithms to consider. Some
used booksellers will adjust their prices automatically based on what
other sellers are asking, and if multiple sellers do this, the price
can ratchet up without any connection to effective demand.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Scott Lurndal
2021-05-17 17:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
   https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
Lynn
I have noticed that some used books on Amazon are listed at several
hundred dollars. I haven't noticed that there is anything special
about them, they just have ridiculously high prices.
I think they're gaming the prices based on other services, who are
gaming the prices based on other services.

ABE books prices on EXO seem to be in line with Amazons.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-17 15:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/07653
36545/
Why wouldn't it?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
William Hyde
2021-05-17 22:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.

I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.

My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.

R&R, incidentally, is a math book. Homeland Security need not worry. Though Divinsky was the husband of a Canadian Prime Minister, and a chess player, with an Eastern European name, all very suspicious.

William Hyde
Tony Nance
2021-05-17 22:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
- Tony
William Hyde
2021-05-18 00:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.

By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.

R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course. But as I was in physics, and the algebra prof was a certifiable sociopath (though not as bad as the madman who taught complex analysis, or the burnt-out case who taught real analysis, but I had to take those) so I bought one of the texts thinking (insanely) that I might sit in.

Ah the days of ambition.

William Hyde
Lynn McGuire
2021-05-18 01:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.
By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.
R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course. But as I was in physics, and the algebra prof was a certifiable sociopath (though not as bad as the madman who taught complex analysis, or the burnt-out case who taught real analysis, but I had to take those) so I bought one of the texts thinking (insanely) that I might sit in.
Ah the days of ambition.
William Hyde
Sounds almost as much fun as Dr. Hartfiel at TAMU in the late 1970s who
would get excited during Calculus I, Calculus III, or Differential
Equations and lapse into German. At one point, he rambled on for five
minutes before one of us 300 poor souls had the guts to interrupt him.
We would egg on Jaime who sat on the front row who would yell "Professor
! Professor ! Professor !". He always turned around and said "Ja ?".
"You were talking in German again." "Oh, Ok." There was no repeat of
that last five minutes in English.

Dr. Hartfiel also wore the same dark blue suit every week and got it
cleaned on the weekends. By Friday, his dark blue trousers were solid
white around the pockets with chalk dust.

Lynn
Tony Nance
2021-05-18 13:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.
By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.
R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course. But as I was in physics, and the algebra prof was a certifiable sociopath (though not as bad as the madman who taught complex analysis, or the burnt-out case who taught real analysis, but I had to take those) so I bought one of the texts thinking (insanely) that I might sit in.
Ah the days of ambition.
William Hyde
Sounds almost as much fun as Dr. Hartfiel at TAMU in the late 1970s who
would get excited during Calculus I, Calculus III, or Differential
Equations and lapse into German. At one point, he rambled on for five
minutes before one of us 300 poor souls had the guts to interrupt him.
We would egg on Jaime who sat on the front row who would yell "Professor
! Professor ! Professor !". He always turned around and said "Ja ?".
"You were talking in German again." "Oh, Ok." There was no repeat of
that last five minutes in English.
Yeah - even in a world filled with oddball professors, math seems
to have more than its share.

Like the guy who spent a few minutes vigorously struggling to tuck
his shirt in while lecturing. He eventually figured out he was trying
to tuck it into his underwear.

Or the guy who would manically pace back and forth before class,
glancing at his wrist repeatedly. But he wasn't wearing a watch.

Or the guy who switched classrooms and went to the wrong
room while we stood on the corner and watched him do it.
Several times. For weeks.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Dr. Hartfiel also wore the same dark blue suit every week and got it
cleaned on the weekends. By Friday, his dark blue trousers were solid
white around the pockets with chalk dust.
Oh - he gets bonus points for getting it cleaned :)
- Tony
J. Clarke
2021-05-18 15:40:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 May 2021 06:23:45 -0700 (PDT), Tony Nance
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.
By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.
R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course. But as I was in physics, and the algebra prof was a certifiable sociopath (though not as bad as the madman who taught complex analysis, or the burnt-out case who taught real analysis, but I had to take those) so I bought one of the texts thinking (insanely) that I might sit in.
Ah the days of ambition.
William Hyde
Sounds almost as much fun as Dr. Hartfiel at TAMU in the late 1970s who
would get excited during Calculus I, Calculus III, or Differential
Equations and lapse into German. At one point, he rambled on for five
minutes before one of us 300 poor souls had the guts to interrupt him.
We would egg on Jaime who sat on the front row who would yell "Professor
! Professor ! Professor !". He always turned around and said "Ja ?".
"You were talking in German again." "Oh, Ok." There was no repeat of
that last five minutes in English.
Yeah - even in a world filled with oddball professors, math seems
to have more than its share.
Like the guy who spent a few minutes vigorously struggling to tuck
his shirt in while lecturing. He eventually figured out he was trying
to tuck it into his underwear.
Or the guy who would manically pace back and forth before class,
glancing at his wrist repeatedly. But he wasn't wearing a watch.
Or the guy who switched classrooms and went to the wrong
room while we stood on the corner and watched him do it.
Several times. For weeks.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Dr. Hartfiel also wore the same dark blue suit every week and got it
cleaned on the weekends. By Friday, his dark blue trousers were solid
white around the pockets with chalk dust.
Oh - he gets bonus points for getting it cleaned :)
I remember one guy who used to whip out a handkerchief and say "pardon
me, I am going to sneeze". After a while no sneeze came so he put the
handkerchief away. Then sneezed thunderously. This was a daily
evolution.

I am told by someone who studied under Einstein that one time Einstein
was reminded by a student that there was a crank to raise the
blackboard, so Einstein diligently cranked away while writing. The
thing is, the crank was about three feet away from where he was
cranking. But that was likely Einstein being silly rather than
Einstein being eccentric.
William Hyde
2021-05-18 21:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.
By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.
R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course. But as I was in physics, and the algebra prof was a certifiable sociopath (though not as bad as the madman who taught complex analysis, or the burnt-out case who taught real analysis, but I had to take those) so I bought one of the texts thinking (insanely) that I might sit in.
Ah the days of ambition.
William Hyde
Sounds almost as much fun as Dr. Hartfiel at TAMU in the late 1970s who
would get excited during Calculus I, Calculus III, or Differential
Equations and lapse into German. At one point, he rambled on for five
minutes before one of us 300 poor souls had the guts to interrupt him.
We would egg on Jaime who sat on the front row who would yell "Professor
! Professor ! Professor !". He always turned around and said "Ja ?".
"You were talking in German again." "Oh, Ok." There was no repeat of
that last five minutes in English.
Oh Rooney wasn't that kind of problem. He was an admirably clear if concise lecturer. Only once in the entire year did he stop to refer to his notes.

The problem was he loved the subject. He took in as a fourth year course at Caltech in 1948, and had
been teaching it as a third year course at U of T for 25 years. Adding a bit each year (a temptation I also fell to when teaching atmospheric science, but I took something out when I put something in). The last problem set I completed took 25 hours and was 37 pages long. These were weekly. At that point I stopped handing them in.

I took the course with a smart guy who'd had a nervous breakdown taking it the year before. He did very well the second time and accepted the job of marker for the course the next year. And had a nervous breakdown. Rooney also flushed one of the most dedicated and talented math students out of the program altogether. At least it provided criminology with someone who actually understood statistics. Two or three other noted students (out of a class of 15 or so) did not return the next year though I don't know for sure why.

He did revel in his reputation as being a tough prof. It had been said that nobody should be allowed to get a U of T math degree without a course from Rooney. But he'd gone well past that by this time.

One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle, so I'd substitute eta for it. But it turned out that when he needed a third variable he'd use eta. So I substituted some other Greek letter for that. And so on. My notes were useless. Fortunately a fellow student found the text he had used in 1948 which covered about 2/3 of the course material.

My parallel to Hartfiel would be Prof Wang. He never spoke Chinese in class, but it's not clear he spoke English either. Fortunately, for the first course I took with him he provided excellent lecture notes he'd worked on the previous summer. Unfortunately, I had to take two more courses from him. Nice guy but unworldly, he cost me quite a bit of money.
Post by Lynn McGuire
Dr. Hartfiel also wore the same dark blue suit every week and got it
cleaned on the weekends. By Friday, his dark blue trousers were solid
white around the pockets with chalk dust.
Dr Greub was an excellent teacher (and researcher), full of enthusiasm and also very clear. He had a thick German accent but was perfectly understandable. Somehow his suit was always in the same dusty and disheveled state. I wondered how he maintained it. I came to his office with some little problem and he seized on it. I spent virtually the entire afternoon there as he dragged in other profs into considering the implications of whatever I had noticed, or what he thought I had noticed. I sat there and tried to look like I had the faintest idea what was going on. A good guy.

William Hyde
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-19 13:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle, so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>

Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.

If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Don
2021-05-19 14:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by William Hyde
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for
a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd
write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle,
so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Lower-case xi appears in my handwritten notes for a couple of college
courses: "Applications of Random Processes" and "Complex Variables."
A halfhearted cursive attempt was made by me to add serifs to the
sigma summation symbol and a dangled "tail" to the xi, in order to make
the two more distinctive and easier to differentiate.

Danke,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-19 18:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don
Post by Michael F. Stemper
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for
a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd
write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle,
so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
Post by Don
Lower-case xi appears in my handwritten notes for a couple of college
courses: "Applications of Random Processes" and "Complex Variables."
A halfhearted cursive attempt was made by me to add serifs to the
sigma summation symbol and a dangled "tail" to the xi, in order to make
the two more distinctive and easier to differentiate.
Danke,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than μ"
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-05-19 18:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Don
Post by Michael F. Stemper
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for
a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd
write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle,
so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
Post by Don
Lower-case xi appears in my handwritten notes for a couple of college
courses: "Applications of Random Processes" and "Complex Variables."
A halfhearted cursive attempt was made by me to add serifs to the
sigma summation symbol and a dangled "tail" to the xi, in order to make
the two more distinctive and easier to differentiate.
Danke,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than Ό"
All hail the endangered clean Limerick.
(Bonus points for a clean pussy Limerick)
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-19 18:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than μ"
Bravo!

(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
Robert Carnegie
2021-05-19 19:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than μ"
Bravo!
(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
It got back here okay. I didn't write the limerick,
though!
J. Clarke
2021-05-19 21:34:59 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 12:15:50 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than ?"
Bravo!
(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
It got back here okay. I didn't write the limerick,
though!
It got lost for me somewhere along the way.
Paul S Person
2021-05-20 16:30:49 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:53:53 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than ?"
Bravo!
(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
Thanks for the revealing the identity of the mystery guest.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-20 22:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:53:53 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than ?"
Bravo!
(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
Thanks for the revealing the identity of the mystery guest.
When I was taking Greek, I never so much as saw the upper-case
xi. And I'm sure my squiggle-renditions of the lower-case xi
would have been unrecognizable to a native speaker/writer.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2021-05-21 16:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:53:53 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
Do "z" but go on longer, more wiggles...
My zs, both upper and lower, have three line segments, no wiggles.
Sometimes I get continental and superimpose a horizontal bisector, but
still no wiggles.
Post by Robert Carnegie
"There once was a curate from Kew,
Who kept a black cat in a pew,
He taught it to speak
Alphabetical Greek,
But it never got further than ?"
Bravo!
(Let's see if my news client messes up the mu.)
Thanks for the revealing the identity of the mystery guest.
When I was taking Greek, I never so much as saw the upper-case
xi. And I'm sure my squiggle-renditions of the lower-case xi
would have been unrecognizable to a native speaker/writer.
Looking at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>, I have to say
I don't recall seeing the capital form either.

This is most likely because I saw it mainly when adding (or decoding)
an ending starting in "sigma" ("s") to a root ending in "kappa" ("k"):
they were merged into a "xi" ("ks").
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
William Hyde
2021-05-19 21:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle, so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Quite possibly though I don't recall it clearly. last time I checked, which was
40 years ago, the notes were within ten feet of where I am sitting, but I fear
to open that drawer as I might release its Eldritch Horrors.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
If I had done that, he'd have introduced the backslash as a symbol for something. It was fated.

William Hyde
J. Clarke
2021-05-19 21:33:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by William Hyde
One hilarious thing that was not his fault. The standard notation for a complex number is z, but if two complex variables are needed, he'd write a squiggle for the second. I literally could not write the squiggle, so I'd substitute eta for it.
Is it possible that this squiggle was lower-case xi?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)>
Two years back, I took a course in set theory, where lower-case xi
is used quite frequently. (That's the only reason that I even know
how a Platonic lower-case xi should look.) I never managed to draw
it, and ended up just making kind of a squiggle in my course notes.
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one course I took
in grad school that had something to do with either aeronautical or
nuclear engineering in which lower case xi made frequent appearances.
When I was writing it on the board my advisor would refer to it as
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-19 22:00:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one course I took
in grad school that had something to do with either aeronautical or
nuclear engineering in which lower case xi made frequent appearances.
When I was writing it on the board my advisor would refer to it as
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
--
Michael F. Stemper
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
J. Clarke
2021-05-20 00:16:25 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one course I took
in grad school that had something to do with either aeronautical or
nuclear engineering in which lower case xi made frequent appearances.
When I was writing it on the board my advisor would refer to it as
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
Michael F. Stemper
2021-05-20 13:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
Okay, thanks. I knew that a lot of that went on. I never knew that
there was a specific program.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
Jerry Brown
2021-05-20 16:55:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 20:16:25 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one course I took
in grad school that had something to do with either aeronautical or
nuclear engineering in which lower case xi made frequent appearances.
When I was writing it on the board my advisor would refer to it as
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
Brings to mind "The Right Stuff"*:
"Our Germans are better than their Germans!"

*: The 1983 Philip Kaufman film, not the recent dreary TV version
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2021-05-20 17:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Brown
On Wed, 19 May 2021 20:16:25 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place,
but that thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one
course I took in grad school that had something to do with
either aeronautical or nuclear engineering in which lower
case xi made frequent appearances. When I was writing it on
the board my advisor would refer to it as "your funny looking
letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
"Our Germans are better than their Germans!"
*: The 1983 Philip Kaufman film, not the recent dreary TV
version
A movie that paints von Braun more favorably than he really
deserved, and 99% of this screen time was 100% fiction. (Von Braun
was a *rocket* scientist. He had no role in the design of
payloads.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Dorothy J Heydt
2021-05-20 22:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jerry Brown
On Wed, 19 May 2021 20:16:25 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place,
but that thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one
course I took in grad school that had something to do with
either aeronautical or nuclear engineering in which lower
case xi made frequent appearances. When I was writing it on
the board my advisor would refer to it as "your funny looking
letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
"Our Germans are better than their Germans!"
*: The 1983 Philip Kaufman film, not the recent dreary TV
version
A movie that paints von Braun more favorably than he really
deserved, and 99% of this screen time was 100% fiction. (Von Braun
was a *rocket* scientist. He had no role in the design of
payloads.)
And you'll recall the story that von Braun was overheard saying,
"The V-2 is a success, except it's hitting the wrong planet."
And somebody ratted him out to Hitler, who promptly fired him.
And Dornberger had to put his own career, and neck, on the line
by going to Hitler and saying, "I don't care what he said, we
need him!"
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
pete...@gmail.com
2021-05-21 04:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:00:45 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:09 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
Post by Michael F. Stemper
If I was smarter, I might have written "\xi" in its place, but that
thought came to me only during this post.
I don't recall what course it was now but there was one course I took
in grad school that had something to do with either aeronautical or
nuclear engineering in which lower case xi made frequent appearances.
When I was writing it on the board my advisor would refer to it as
"your funny looking letter" (note--he was a paperclip specialist).
Huh? What do you mean by "paperclip specialist"?
The kind of guy who would know Hannah Reitsch personally.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip>
My Uncle (by marriage) Felix, came to the US as a child, since his father came
In on this program. His father was apparently an expert in steel rolling
mills. He once showed me his Hitler Jugend dagger.

Just weird.

Pt
Tony Nance
2021-05-18 13:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Lynn McGuire
Am I the only person noticing that the price of used dead tree books
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Jumper-Novel-Steven-Gould/dp/0765336545/
For a long time "The Lydian Baker", an historical mystery by David Wishart, was listed on Amazon for $306. It was a not terribly well made mass market paperback.
I had to wait until British libraries started destocking it, got a worn but good hardback for $20, mostly shipping.
My second year stat mech text, which I bought for $7.30 Canadian, sold on EBay for $500. When I mentioned on this group that "Rings and Radicals", by Nathan Divinsky was selling for $75 and I had paid 98 cents, someone on this group offered to buy it at $100. Clearly I should have bought ten copies when I had the chance.
You and I talked about the Divinsky book here many years ago, though I wasn't the one who offered anything for it. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced copy, including checking again just a couple weeks ago. IIRC, you mentioned it was a pretty standardly required text where you were a student, which surprised the heck out of me. (Again, IIRC)
In the 1950s and 60s the U of T math department went on quite a spree of book publishing, a uniform set of advanced mathematics books in black covers. Titles I can recall, or think I can recall, are "The Variational Principles of Mechanics" by Cornelius Lanczos, which was a text for third year classical mechanics (though mainly we used Goldstein). "Partial Differential Equations" by a very young G. F. D. Duff, and some book by Synge, I think "Tensor Calculus" by Synge and Schild, though it might have been a Synge book on GR. (IIRC Synge was at U of T for some time, and approached Lanczos about writing for the series). R&R was also in the series.
Heh - I am moving offices tomorrow[1], and just yesterday I packed the Synge & Schild into a box.
By the 70s, though, many copies of these books had been sitting in warehouses for a decade or more, and U of T decided to sell them all for 98 cents each.
R&R was recommended, though not required, for the third year algebra course.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Still neat/surprising that it was recommended.
- Tony
[1] Well, the movers are moving my stuff. Thankfully.
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