Discussion:
[OT] Right Out of Science Fiction
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Robert Carnegie
2020-05-28 09:11:45 UTC
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The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
It relies on the loyalty to duty of the postal service, which as we know,
President Trump distrusts. He isn’t alone either.

Obviously to not deliver those mails to poor, black, or queer
districts is trivial. And of course this does not suppress only
their postal votes, but all votes.
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-28 09:28:52 UTC
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On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:08:18 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
<snip stuff so far off base is can't even be said to be wrong>
Wow!
You really have /no idea at all/ how it works, do you?
The paper strip with the number is removed /by the voter/ and
is /not sent back in/.
In the /real/ world, anyway. Over there is alt-reality,
anything can happen.
In the real world that is the State of Washington. But, does
that extend to California?
In California, there's a serial number on the ballot itself, and it
is tied to the identify of the voter. There's literally no pretense
of secret ballots.
There is literally no support for your claim in your post.
In the United Kingdom, when I vote in person, a numbered
ballot form is given to me, and it is recorded that I was given
the form with that number. So my ballot can be identified as
mine. It is not done unless, I suppose, it is claimed that the
person who voted isn't me (claimed by me presumably),
/and/ the outcome of the poll is quite close. Or no doubt if
I write on the paper “I soaked this in a poison undetectable
to science.” The counters probably wear gloves anyway,
and especially this year of plague - people are charged
and convicted for assault for coughing. Possibly murder
following the death of Mrs Belly Mujinga.
Thomas Koenig
2020-05-28 11:51:41 UTC
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On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
It _is_ hard to remove a *real* dictator by the use of weapons. Donald Trump
hasn't repealed the Second Amendment, so he is not a real dictator.
So? The Democrats claim that he is. Are you saying that they lie?
Not really. Their imaginations are just a little overheated when they equate
Donald Trump with Adolph Hitler.
Who is Adolph Hitler?
Titus G
2020-05-28 23:10:45 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
It _is_ hard to remove a *real* dictator by the use of weapons.
Donald Trump hasn't repealed the Second Amendment, so he is not
a real dictator.
So? The Democrats claim that he is. Are you saying that they lie?
Not really. Their imaginations are just a little overheated when
they equate Donald Trump with Adolph Hitler.
Who is Adolph Hitler?
Not is but was. A powerful European warlord supported by wealthy white
USA republicans such as manufacturer Henry Ford and banker Prescott Bush.
Major Oz
2020-05-29 02:55:02 UTC
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Post by Titus G
Post by Thomas Koenig
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
It _is_ hard to remove a *real* dictator by the use of weapons.
Donald Trump hasn't repealed the Second Amendment, so he is not
a real dictator.
So? The Democrats claim that he is. Are you saying that they lie?
Not really. Their imaginations are just a little overheated when
they equate Donald Trump with Adolph Hitler.
Who is Adolph Hitler?
Not is but was. A powerful European warlord supported by wealthy white
USA republicans such as manufacturer Henry Ford and banker Prescott Bush.
And bootlegger Joe Kennedy
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-29 03:03:23 UTC
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Post by Titus G
Post by Thomas Koenig
Not really. Their imaginations are just a little overheated when
they equate Donald Trump with Adolph Hitler.
Who is Adolph Hitler?
Not is but was. A powerful European warlord supported by wealthy white
USA republicans such as manufacturer Henry Ford and banker Prescott Bush.
It's a shot at the spelling error
Thomas Koenig
2020-05-29 11:10:23 UTC
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Post by Titus G
Post by Thomas Koenig
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
It _is_ hard to remove a *real* dictator by the use of weapons.
Donald Trump hasn't repealed the Second Amendment, so he is not
a real dictator.
So? The Democrats claim that he is. Are you saying that they lie?
Not really. Their imaginations are just a little overheated when
they equate Donald Trump with Adolph Hitler.
Who is Adolph Hitler?
Not is but was. A powerful European warlord supported by wealthy white
USA republicans such as manufacturer Henry Ford and banker Prescott Bush.
Don't know anybody by that name. I know of somebody whose first name
ended with an "f".
Quadibloc
2020-05-29 14:22:15 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
Don't know anybody by that name. I know of somebody whose first name
ended with an "f".
Oh. I've seen his first name spelled both ways.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:19:24 UTC
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On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:58:36 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against the
electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent
elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather than
a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled out by
the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that matter, by *any*
registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something is up.
Signatures? If there is a signature on the ballot, that defeats the
whole concept of a secret ballot.
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway. :-)
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is that the
defeat was political, not military--the people of the US became
convinced with the collusion of the press that the war could not be
won, and prevailed upon the politicians to end it. That they were
losing on the battlefield was news to the military.
Paul S Person
2020-05-28 16:05:43 UTC
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On Thu, 28 May 2020 08:19:24 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:58:36 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against the
electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent
elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather than
a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled out by
the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that matter, by *any*
registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something is up.
Signatures? If there is a signature on the ballot, that defeats the
whole concept of a secret ballot.
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway. :-)
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is that the
defeat was political, not military--the people of the US became
convinced with the collusion of the press that the war could not be
won, and prevailed upon the politicians to end it. That they were
losing on the battlefield was news to the military.
Actually, IIRC, the Army did a study.

Well, of course they did: after-action studies are how they learn
things useful in the future.

What they found was that

support for the war /declined/ with
every dead soldier landed at Dover

I've pointed this out before: the war was supported initially because
it supported the Draft, and the Draft was supported because it made
the boys get their g*dd*m*nd hair cut.

Actually /dying/ was never part of the deal.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:41:31 UTC
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Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 28 May 2020 08:19:24 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:58:36 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something is up.
Signatures? If there is a signature on the ballot, that defeats
the whole concept of a secret ballot.
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA
won the Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway. :-)
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is
that the defeat was political, not military--the people of the
US became convinced with the collusion of the press that the war
could not be won, and prevailed upon the politicians to end it.
That they were losing on the battlefield was news to the
military.
Actually, IIRC, the Army did a study.
Well, of course they did: after-action studies are how they
learn things useful in the future.
What they found was that
support for the war /declined/ with
every dead soldier landed at Dover
I've pointed this out before: the war was supported initially
because it supported the Draft, and the Draft was supported
because it made the boys get their g*dd*m*nd hair cut.
Actually /dying/ was never part of the deal.
Delusional as usual.

We got involved when oil was discovered in the Gulf of Tonkin. We
got out when it was determined this was in error. That elected
officials were in danger of losing reelections accelerated the
process.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:39:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:58:36 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second envelope,
sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something is up.
Signatures? If there is a signature on the ballot, that defeats
the whole concept of a secret ballot.
And if it's anywhere else, it defeats the whole concept of
verifying that votes come from qualified voters.

One or the other, but not both.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
David Johnston
2020-05-28 17:31:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 2020-05-28 6:19 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:

The signature is removed before the bal
Post by J. Clarke
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway. :-)
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is that the
defeat was political, not military--the people of the US became
convinced with the collusion of the press that the war could not be
won,
Damn that press and their convincing people with accurate reportage.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 23:52:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
The signature is removed before the bal
Post by J. Clarke
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA
won the Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.
:-)
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is
that the defeat was political, not military--the people of the
US became convinced with the collusion of the press that the
war could not be won,
Damn that press and their convincing people with accurate
reportage.
Most of the news medial very accurate presents the Left's propaganda,
yes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Titus G
2020-05-28 23:18:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 29/05/20 12:19 am, J. Clarke wrote:
snip
Post by J. Clarke
Nobody thinks that the US won Vietnam. What you don't get is that the
defeat was political, not military--the people of the US became
convinced with the collusion of the press that the war could not be
won, and prevailed upon the politicians to end it.
It has always been my impression that the people of the US and
worldwide, (including allies Aust and NZ), were more concerned with the
horrors of war and lack of justification rather than ability to win.

That they were
Post by J. Clarke
losing on the battlefield was news to the military.
From memory ~ 60,000 US dead and over a million north Vietamese.
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:22:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 17:02:17 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against the
electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent
elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather than
a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too.  One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled out by
the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that matter, by *any*
registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something is up.
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Have you ever actually read Vo Nguyen Giap's book? If not you might
want to. I suspect it will destroy a few of your illusions.
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:23:35 UTC
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Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 14:07:31 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
Do they have warrants?
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:58:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 14:07:31 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and
one federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and
not under the control of any political party, even the one in
power - do regular door-knocks where identity and residence are
verified.
Do they have warrants?
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to
identify ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking
on the door.
There are a lot of countries where that's such an alien concept
they can't even imagine it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Titus G
2020-05-28 23:11:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 14:07:31 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
Do they have warrants?
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door. Can you imagine an
Electoral Commission officer being given that authority?
Would you call a policeman any random individual?
It's not terribly difficult.
Major Oz
2020-05-29 02:57:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
t be.
Post by J. Clarke
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Titus G
2020-05-29 03:23:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
t be.
Post by J. Clarke
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Really? It should be obvious that a US resident would know more about
this than I would, so as I was addressing a US resident IN the US, then
I am wrong. Thank you.
Where I live, the police are the good guys.
Major Oz
2020-05-29 07:36:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
t be.
Post by J. Clarke
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Really? It should be obvious that a US resident would know more about
this than I would, so as I was addressing a US resident IN the US, then
I am wrong. Thank you.
Where I live, the police are the good guys.
Where I live......also.

It's just that NOBODY can demand ID from me without KNOWING I have committed a crime or they have reasoned suspicion that I am about to.

.....nor do I have to tell them my name, address, etc....

It is in the media's interest to portray cops as bad guys. It attracts eyeballs.....which attracts advertisers.
Titus G
2020-05-29 09:06:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
t be.
Post by J. Clarke
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Really? It should be obvious that a US resident would know more about
this than I would, so as I was addressing a US resident IN the US, then
I am wrong. Thank you.
Where I live, the police are the good guys.
Where I live......also.
It's just that NOBODY can demand ID from me without KNOWING I have committed a crime or they have reasoned suspicion that I am about to.
......nor do I have to tell them my name, address, etc....
In NZ you must supply your name and address to a police officer when
asked. It is an offence not to and you may be detained if they do not
believe you.
Post by Major Oz
It is in the media's interest to portray cops as bad guys. It attracts eyeballs.....which attracts advertisers.
Alan Baker
2020-05-29 14:22:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
t be.
Post by J. Clarke
Yes, because the government is not allowed to require us to identify
ourselves to any random individual who comes knocking on the door.
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Really? It should be obvious that a US resident would know more about
this than I would, so as I was addressing a US resident IN the US, then
I am wrong. Thank you.
Where I live, the police are the good guys.
Where I live......also.
It's just that NOBODY can demand ID from me without KNOWING I have committed a crime or they have reasoned suspicion that I am about to.
.....nor do I have to tell them my name, address, etc....
It is in the media's interest to portray cops as bad guys. It attracts eyeballs.....which attracts advertisers.
When a cop kneels on someone's neck until that person dies...

...he is a bad guy.
Quadibloc
2020-05-29 07:54:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Major Oz
Post by Titus G
Your government is allowed to require you to identify yourself to a
police officer who comes knocking on the door.
If you are addressing a US resident IN the US.......you are wrong.
Really? It should be obvious that a US resident would know more about
this than I would, so as I was addressing a US resident IN the US, then
I am wrong. Thank you.
Where I live, the police are the good guys.
I am not sure about the details of his statement.

In the United States, there have been a lot of news stories about the lives of
victims of SWATting being placed in danger - one was even killed by police - and
about unarmed black men being killed by police.

In general, though, most of the time, most Americans do regard the police as the
"good guys". They believe they live in a free country, after all.

However, they also want to keep on living in a free country. Which is why they
have a Constitution that places a lot of limits on the power of the government.
They want there to be a lot of roadblocks in the way of any would-be dictator in
their country. And that includes limits on how the police can collect evidence.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:24:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 17:11:14 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
If we were to do that for everyone here in the US..........there would be HUGE screams of racism.
The question is, would it be the blacks complaining about being
enfranchised, or the *whites* complaining about the blacks being
enfranchised???
It would be the white liberals complaining that somehow it was
disenfranchising black people.
Sometimes the USA seems a complete waste of democracy...
And yes, we didn't enfranchise our locals until 1966, but we did do it.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:44:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 17:11:14 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:09:07 PM UTC-5, Gary R.
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental
agencies, and not under the control of any political party,
even the one in power - do regular door-knocks where identity
and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
If we were to do that for everyone here in the
US..........there would be HUGE screams of racism.
The question is, would it be the blacks complaining about being
enfranchised, or the *whites* complaining about the blacks being
enfranchised???
It would be the white liberals complaining that somehow it was
disenfranchising black people.
In some places, they'd be right.

In other places, it'd probably also be right, but it would be the
white liberals doing it. (Remember, Trump had a *lot* of black
votes.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-28 17:02:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
It would be the white liberals complaining that somehow it was
disenfranchising black people.
In some places, they'd be right.
In other places, it'd probably also be right, but it would be the
white liberals doing it. (Remember, Trump had a *lot* of black
votes.)
Interesting definition of "a lot"

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016

African-Americans 89% Clinton, 8% Trump

Slightly higher for Trump than Mitch in 2012
93% Obama, 6% Rommney

or McCain in 2008
95% Obama 4% McCain
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:30:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 May 2020 22:11:59 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said that she was
going to punish them for not following her orders.
People who break the law get punished.
Please identify the specific law that was broken and the specific
punishments prescribed for violating that law.

A governor's edict, no matter how much closet royalists like you want
it to be, is NOT THE LAW.
And those who make a point of flouting the
law will get particular attention. Dictatorship depends on the content of the
laws. Not engaging in acts that endanger the lives of others is something that it
is legitimate to make illegal.
And when the specific action in question is actually made illegal get
back to us.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:30:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 22:11:59 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said
that she was going to punish them for not following her
orders.
People who break the law get punished.
Please identify the specific law that was broken and the
specific punishments prescribed for violating that law.
A governor's edict, no matter how much closet royalists like you
want it to be, is NOT THE LAW.
Especially when it *intentionally* punishes millions of people the
governor *knows* did not break it.

The only one breaking the law is the governor. Well, her and the jack
booted thugs that work for her, but most of them have chickened out
when it came right down to it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-05-28 17:36:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
A governor's edict, no matter how much closet royalists like you want
it to be, is NOT THE LAW.
I know that the President of the United States can issue Executive Orders that
have the force of law, and I thought that the laws in most U.S. states allowed
governors to do something similar. Not being an American, I could be mistaken.

Speaking of Executive Orders, I see that there's one coming up aimed at Twitter...

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 12:33:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 17:02:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then
what is the point of putting them in hardened
underground silos in the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now
you'll listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct
more often than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't
listened to him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is
a true statement if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor
and understanding of American politics, but which led to much
consternation among his opponents.
Rush also knows full well not to take himself seriously, as do his
fans. Only those who hate him with blind, stupid passtion see him
as anything other than trollish entertainment.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Major Oz
2020-05-28 18:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then
what is the point of putting them in hardened
underground silos in the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now
you'll listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct
more often than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't
listened to him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is
a true statement if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor
and understanding of American politics, but which led to much
consternation among his opponents.
Rush also knows full well not to take himself seriously, as do his
fans. Only those who hate him with blind, stupid passtion see him
as anything other than trollish entertainment.
I first heard him in the late 80's and what you say was completely obvious.

It has been absolute amazement to me that anyone could take him in any way other than what you describe.......though I know a number of campus leftists that glory in doing so.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 23:59:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:02:27 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then
what is the point of putting them in hardened
underground silos in the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an
anti-tank weapon then what is the point of putting
armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own
population. (see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now
you'll listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct
more often than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't
listened to him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which
is a true statement if interpreted with a reasonable sense of
humor and understanding of American politics, but which led
to much consternation among his opponents.
Rush also knows full well not to take himself seriously, as do
his fans. Only those who hate him with blind, stupid passtion
see him as anything other than trollish entertainment.
I first heard him in the late 80's and what you say was
completely obvious.
It is, to people who aren't delusional. And to some who are.
It has been absolute amazement to me that anyone could take him
in any way other than what you describe.......
Catch him in a talkative mood, and he'll describe himself as an
entertainer, and only that.
though I know a
number of campus leftists that glory in doing so.
One cannot run a cult without a boogie man. They *need* him, and
they need him to be taken seriously no matter how idiotic one has
to be to do so.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-28 18:23:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 21:37:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the 0.2% of
the time that he's left though.
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-28 21:47:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the 0.2% of
the time that he's left though.
Good luck with that. I have heard him say that he was wrong about
something and say what the correction is (I do not remember when that
was other than it was recently). I suspect that he has a person on
staff to correct him. I think I heard him say once that he has 30
people on staff.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 21:53:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the 0.2% of
the time that he's left though.
Good luck with that. I have heard him say that he was wrong about
something and say what the correction is (I do not remember when that
was other than it was recently). I suspect that he has a person on
staff to correct him. I think I heard him say once that he has 30
people on staff.
He may be wrong but that doesn't make him any less right. You do know
that "right" has more than one meaning do you not?
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-28 23:19:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the 0.2% of
the time that he's left though.
Good luck with that. I have heard him say that he was wrong about
something and say what the correction is (I do not remember when that
was other than it was recently). I suspect that he has a person on
staff to correct him. I think I heard him say once that he has 30
people on staff.
He may be wrong but that doesn't make him any less right. You do know
that "right" has more than one meaning do you not?
Right.

Lynn
Titus G
2020-05-28 23:43:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then what is
the point of putting them in hardened underground silos in
the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own population.
(see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now you'll
listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct more often
than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't listened to
him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which is a true statement
if interpreted with a reasonable sense of humor and understanding of
American politics, but which led to much consternation among his
opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the 0.2% of
the time that he's left though.
"Of Limbaugh's controversial statements and allegations they have
investigated, Politifact has rated 84% as ranging from "Mostly False" to
"Pants-On-Fire" (signifying extremely false), with 5% of Limbaugh's
contested statements rising to the level of "Mostly True" and 0% rated
"True."

So his record is far better than the Dimwire's.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 23:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 13:23:18 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:50:28 -0700, Robert Woodward
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:15:05 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Mon, 25 May 2020 09:01:49 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:40:27 +0200, Sjouke Burry
If they are not able to survive a first strike then
what is the point of putting them in hardened
underground silos in the first place?
If a tank is not able to survive a hit by an anti-tank
weapon then what is the point of putting armor on it?
Tanks are quite suitable to control your own
population. (see China at the chinamen?? square.)
Tienanmen.
So close, and yet so far.
Ti*a*nanmen Square.
Well, drat. You're right.
I keep telling you people I'm *always* right. Maybe now
you'll listen to me.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I will point out that a clock that runs backwards is correct
more often than that.
Rush Limbaugh used to say (maybe he still does, I haven't
listened to him in decades) that he was _always_ right, which
is a true statement if interpreted with a reasonable sense of
humor and understanding of American politics, but which led to
much consternation among his opponents.
Nope. Rush says that he is right 99.8% of the time. 99.8% is
not "always".
Well then he's changed his story. I do want to know about the
0.2% of the time that he's left though.
That's probably when he thought he was wrong, but was mistaken.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-28 15:53:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
BTW, Charlotteville, legally contracted site of the RNC this
year, is becoming the next Hot Spot. But perhaps it will have
peaked by August.
Wow dude, you are delusional.
It's so obvious it's embarassing. One wonders if he's in the US, or
just relying on the international press propaganda for his mental
image of the US.
He can't tell Charlottesville, VA from Charlotte, NC,
though there's many a USAian that couldn't.
It's actually called a "typo". What can I say?

And NC has its infection rate /rising/, and Charlotte is right smack
dab in the middle of it -- a Hot Spot in the making. Well, as of
recently, anyway; who can say what it's doing right now?

And the RNC does have a contract with Charlotte for the convention.
Plus two years of effort and contracts with various vendors (I would
think they have, by now, rented entire hotels for the convention
dates, for example) -- and no inclination to move it.

If Trump doesn't want to show up, well, they [1] can always nominate
him in absentia. Or nominate somebody else -- somebody interested
enough in the job to show up.

It's their [1] choice, after all.

[1] Reference is, of course, to the delegates to the Republican
Convention.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 17:01:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:48:27 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:13:53 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
BTW, Charlotteville, legally contracted site of the RNC
this year, is becoming the next Hot Spot. But perhaps it
will have peaked by August.
Wow dude, you are delusional.
It's so obvious it's embarassing. One wonders if he's in the
US, or just relying on the international press propaganda for
his mental image of the US.
He can't tell Charlottesville, VA from Charlotte, NC,
though there's many a USAian that couldn't.
It's actually called a "typo". What can I say?
That's your story, and you're sticking to it!
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-28 16:02:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 May 2020 13:08:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:08:18 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
<snip stuff so far off base is can't even be said to be wrong>
Which is to say, you know I'm right but you're not man enough to
admit it.
What I have figured it that you are so far off base that what you say
can't even be said to be wrong.

IOW, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being "wrong" and 10 being "correct",
you are at about -1000.
Wow!
You really have /no idea at all/ how it works, do you?
The paper strip with the number is removed /by the voter/ and is
/not sent back in/.
So there's no verification that it came from someone eligible to vote
at all.
In your reality, maybe.

Over here, where the rest of us live, I've done exactly that in every
election for many, many elections.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 17:03:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 May 2020 13:08:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:08:18 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
<snip stuff so far off base is can't even be said to be wrong>
Which is to say, you know I'm right but you're not man enough to
admit it.
What I have figured it that you are so far off base that what
you say can't even be said to be wrong.
IOW, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being "wrong" and 10 being
"correct", you are at about -1000.
I know you are, but what am ?
Post by Paul S Person
Wow!
You really have /no idea at all/ how it works, do you?
The paper strip with the number is removed /by the voter/ and
is /not sent back in/.
So there's no verification that it came from someone eligible to
vote at all.
In your reality, maybe.
Over here, where the rest of us live, I've done exactly that in
every election for many, many elections.
Secret ballot, or verified to come from a qualified voter, but not
both. You may be programmed to believe otherwise, but that's no a
surprise, given how clearly delusional you are on every other
subject.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-29 15:47:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 10:03:45 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 27 May 2020 13:08:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:08:18 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
<snip stuff so far off base is can't even be said to be wrong>
Which is to say, you know I'm right but you're not man enough to
admit it.
What I have figured it that you are so far off base that what
you say can't even be said to be wrong.
IOW, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being "wrong" and 10 being
"correct", you are at about -1000.
I know you are, but what am ?
Post by Paul S Person
Wow!
You really have /no idea at all/ how it works, do you?
The paper strip with the number is removed /by the voter/ and
is /not sent back in/.
So there's no verification that it came from someone eligible to
vote at all.
In your reality, maybe.
Over here, where the rest of us live, I've done exactly that in
every election for many, many elections.
Secret ballot, or verified to come from a qualified voter, but not
both. You may be programmed to believe otherwise, but that's no a
surprise, given how clearly delusional you are on every other
subject.
Has anyone else picked up on Trump's slam of Twitter?

Where he accuses them, not of violating his 1st Amendment rights, not
of showing anti-alt-right bias, but of /interfering in political
contest/.

IOW, where he admitted that the entire "mail voting" thing is simply a
compaign issue, like "Mexico will pay", and not to be taken seriously.

By anybody. Least of all his supporters, who might wonder why he
hasn't kept his promise.

So I suggest we all back off from this now-identified-by-Trump as a
non-issue topic.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2020-05-28 16:10:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
And it is ... when only /some/ cases are followed up on, all of them
located in certain areas known to contain "them".

But the solution to that is to identify the racists-in-charge and Lock
Them Up.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:58:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 May 2020 21:42:11 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental agencies,
and not under the control of any political party, even the one
in power - do regular door-knocks where identity and residence
are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
And it is ... when only /some/ cases are followed up on, all of
them located in certain areas known to contain "them".
But the solution to that is to identify the racists-in-charge
and Lock Them Up.
There are a lot of Democrats who should be locked up, yes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:23:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 2:20:50 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
It should also be obvious that a literal coup by a leftist
dictator is more dangnerous than the virus.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't agree that, say, Gretchen
Whitmer is a potential or aspiring "leftist dictator" by any
stretch of the imagination, though.
Then you're not paying attention.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:24:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 2:20:50 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
It should also be obvious that a literal coup by a leftist
dictator is more dangnerous than the virus.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't agree that, say, Gretchen
Whitmer is a potential or aspiring "leftist dictator" by any
stretch of the imagination, though.
John Savard
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said that
she was going to punish them for not following her orders.
Specifically by extending the lockdown with no pretense of any
medical reason, but *only* to punish those who would dare challenge
her authority.

She's drive the state to the point of armed, though not *yet*
violent, insurrection, and now they have looting in the streets.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:29:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said
that she was going to punish them for not following her orders.
People who break the law get punished.
An uconstitutional order isn't law, it's fascism.

And her threat was to punish *everyone* in the state for the
actions of those who defied her seized authority.

Would *you* like to be locked up as punishment for something that
your neighbors did, when the person punishing you knows full well
you couldn't have done anything to stop it? And by "punish," we're
talking about being locked up at home with no income until you get
evicted and left literally homeless, probably in the middle of
winter in Michigan?

Are you *really* so fucking delusional that you find that
acceptable?
And those who make a
point of flouting the law will get particular attention.
In this case, no, they don't get particular attention. What she
threatened was to punish *everyone* for the acts of a few.
Dictatorship depends on the content of the laws.
Indeed. And the legitimacy of them.
Not engaging in
acts that endanger the lives of others is something that it is
legitimate to make illegal.
You've just agreed that the governor of Michigan's actions were
illegal. Especially in light of hospitals reporting more suicide
deaths than cornonavirus deaths (to the tune of more suicides in
the last four weeks than all of last year).
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-05-28 17:39:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
An uconstitutional order isn't law, it's fascism.
And her threat was to punish *everyone* in the state for the
actions of those who defied her seized authority.
Would *you* like to be locked up as punishment for something that
your neighbors did, when the person punishing you knows full well
you couldn't have done anything to stop it? And by "punish," we're
talking about being locked up at home with no income until you get
evicted and left literally homeless, probably in the middle of
winter in Michigan?
Are you *really* so fucking delusional that you find that
acceptable?
I wouldn't, but I think you're mischaracterizing her actions and words.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 23:53:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 10:29:22 AM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
An uconstitutional order isn't law, it's fascism.
And her threat was to punish *everyone* in the state for the
actions of those who defied her seized authority.
Would *you* like to be locked up as punishment for something
that your neighbors did, when the person punishing you knows
full well you couldn't have done anything to stop it? And by
"punish," we're talking about being locked up at home with no
income until you get evicted and left literally homeless,
probably in the middle of winter in Michigan?
Are you *really* so fucking delusional that you find that
acceptable?
I wouldn't,
Then you're a hypocrite.
but I think
No, you don't, ever. Not a single time in your entire life. The
only mental action you're capable of is obedience.
you're mischaracterizing her actions and
words.
Not in any way, but you're too delusional to accept that.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Peter Trei
2020-05-29 00:37:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said
that she was going to punish them for not following her orders.
People who break the law get punished.
An uconstitutional order isn't law, it's fascism.
And her threat was to punish *everyone* in the state for the
actions of those who defied her seized authority.
Would *you* like to be locked up as punishment for something that
your neighbors did, when the person punishing you knows full well
you couldn't have done anything to stop it? And by "punish," we're
talking about being locked up at home with no income until you get
evicted and left literally homeless, probably in the middle of
winter in Michigan?
Are you *really* so fucking delusional that you find that
acceptable?
And those who make a
point of flouting the law will get particular attention.
In this case, no, they don't get particular attention. What she
threatened was to punish *everyone* for the acts of a few.
Dictatorship depends on the content of the laws.
Indeed. And the legitimacy of them.
Not engaging in
acts that endanger the lives of others is something that it is
legitimate to make illegal.
's u
You've just agreed that the governor of Michigan's actions were
illegal. Especially in light of hospitals reporting more suicide
deaths than cornonavirus deaths (to the tune of more suicides in
the last four weeks than all of last year).
Got a cite for that? I tried to look it up. Found that Michigan has a bit over
1500 suicides a year, and this year they're projecting 2000. That up quite a
bit.

However, so far this year, MI has already had over 5300 deaths from the virus.

So, do you have source for this, other than pulling it out of your ass?

pt
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-29 01:42:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
You've just agreed that the governor of Michigan's actions were
illegal. Especially in light of hospitals reporting more suicide
deaths than cornonavirus deaths (to the tune of more suicides in
the last four weeks than all of last year).
Got a cite for that? I tried to look it up. Found that Michigan has a bit over
1500 suicides a year, and this year they're projecting 2000. That up quite a
bit.
However, so far this year, MI has already had over 5300 deaths from the virus.
So, do you have source for this, other than pulling it out of your ass?
It's Terry, he switched over to permanent troll mode a couple of years ago so he'll bullshit about anything
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 15:50:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:29:22 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
You've just agreed that the governor of Michigan's actions
were illegal. Especially in light of hospitals reporting more
suicide deaths than cornonavirus deaths (to the tune of more
suicides in the last four weeks than all of last year).
Got a cite for that? I tried to look it up. Found that Michigan
has a bit over 1500 suicides a year, and this year they're
projecting 2000. That up quite a bit.
However, so far this year, MI has already had over 5300 deaths from the virus.
So, do you have source for this, other than pulling it out of
your ass?
It's Terry, he switched over to permanent troll mode a couple of
years ago so he'll bullshit about anything
And here you come, humping my pantleg for attention because you're
jealous.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 15:50:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:29:22 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:24:36 PM UTC-6, Lynn McGuire
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said
that she was going to punish them for not following her
orders.
People who break the law get punished.
An uconstitutional order isn't law, it's fascism.
And her threat was to punish *everyone* in the state for the
actions of those who defied her seized authority.
Would *you* like to be locked up as punishment for something
that your neighbors did, when the person punishing you knows
full well you couldn't have done anything to stop it? And by
"punish," we're talking about being locked up at home with no
income until you get evicted and left literally homeless,
probably in the middle of winter in Michigan?
Are you *really* so fucking delusional that you find that
acceptable?
And those who make a
point of flouting the law will get particular attention.
In this case, no, they don't get particular attention. What she
threatened was to punish *everyone* for the acts of a few.
Dictatorship depends on the content of the laws.
Indeed. And the legitimacy of them.
Not engaging in
acts that endanger the lives of others is something that it
is legitimate to make illegal.
's u
You've just agreed that the governor of Michigan's actions were
illegal. Especially in light of hospitals reporting more
suicide deaths than cornonavirus deaths (to the tune of more
suicides in the last four weeks than all of last year).
Got a cite for that? I tried to look it up. Found that Michigan
has a bit over 1500 suicides a year, and this year they're
projecting 2000. That up quite a bit.
The worst numbers were one particular hospital in the San Franciso
area. I didn't bother to bookmark the story.
However, so far this year, MI has already had over 5300 deaths
from the virus.
So, do you have source for this, other than pulling it out of
your ass?
If I did, past experience says you'd ignore it, lie about it, or
move the goalposts. It's not like you interact with reality.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:34:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?

How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA
won the Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway. :-)
Better than than under the fascist boot heel of the left.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-29 03:27:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the various
candidates to scrutinise the votes?

I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you don't allow
it, why bother even pretending to have an election?

ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it "The
Stainless Steel Rat For President?"

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
J. Clarke
2020-05-29 06:45:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the various
candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you don't allow
it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it "The
Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers' paradise you
inhabit is one required to put one's name on the ballot one casts so
that the winning side can track down everyone who voted against it? If
so, please be aware that the US has a secret ballot. One is required
to identify oneself in order to vote but the identification is not
tied to the ballot. Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered
voters in the polling place, and your name gets checked off when you
arrive.
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-29 13:54:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the various
candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you don't allow
it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it "The
Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers' paradise you
inhabit is one required to put one's name on the ballot one casts so
that the winning side can track down everyone who voted against it? If
so, please be aware that the US has a secret ballot. One is required
to identify oneself in order to vote but the identification is not
tied to the ballot. Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered
voters in the polling place, and your name gets checked off when you
arrive.
No, you sign the *sealed* envelope in which a second, sealed envelope
containing your ballot papers are placed. This internal envelope has a
flap (q.v), removed by the electoral mob before the envelope is passed
on to the people that physically open it, scrutinise the ballot, and
record it.

So we have a chain which implies strongly that the unopened envelope
containing the completed[1] ballot papers is indeed as intended by the
voter, but at no point in the process can those who count things connect
the ballot to the voter.

I forget that this is all simple and obvious to people who have grown up
with it, and somehow scary and difficult to those in the USA.

The other point to bear in mind is that Oz has compulsory voting, which
means that no nefarious group can "vote the graveyard" or the like.

Yes, ballots can (and have) been interfered with, but having an
independent Electoral Commission, using paper ballots, and having
competent scrutineers, both from the parties and nominally independent,
means that we have managed to avoid any real electoral screw-ups. (But
those we do have tend to be quite entertaining! Lost ballot boxes,
candidates who do not qualify under Australian law, all sorts of fun.
Generally they have no impact on the results, although sometimes they
lead to by-elections shortly after a general election. :-) )

Cheers,
Gary B-)

1 - My using "completed" here does not mean that the ballot is
necessarily "valid," that's a whole other kettle of fish!
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Quadibloc
2020-05-29 14:39:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
No, you sign the *sealed* envelope in which a second, sealed envelope
containing your ballot papers are placed. This internal envelope has a
flap (q.v), removed by the electoral mob before the envelope is passed
on to the people that physically open it, scrutinise the ballot, and
record it.
So we have a chain which implies strongly that the unopened envelope
containing the completed[1] ballot papers is indeed as intended by the
voter, but at no point in the process can those who count things connect
the ballot to the voter.
I forget that this is all simple and obvious to people who have grown up
with it, and somehow scary and difficult to those in the USA.
Surely, though, the objection is obvious.

Yes, there is a secret ballot: *provided the people to whom you mail your ballot
follow the rules*. But since you're not there in person, how do you know this is
happening?

Sure, there might be some sort of oversight system - but in the United States,
individual states have jurisdiction over the electoral process. And
gerrymandering of electoral districts is so prevalent that both parties are now
doing it.

If there was a commitment at the highest level of government to fair elections,
obviously one solution would be to move how electins are conducted to Federal
jurisdiction.

In the United States, Donald Trump just recently threatened to delay emergency
aid to Michigan in response to flooding there, because its governor was going to
allow mail-in ballots in a primary, which Trump claimed would allow "voter
fraud". In fact, this is seen as an attempt to force her to participate in
Republican attempts to suppress voting from minority groups.

If the United States were a civilized country like Canada, where all the major parties have a firm, unshakeable commitment to the integrity of the electoral process, that would be one thing.

Oh, wait a momeent. A few years back, someone acting on behalf of the federal
Conservative party hired a call centre to call people, and give them the wrong
address for their local polling station...

and not only was this not resolved by a successful police investigation that
found every person responsible for this...

but the call centre accepted the commission because it had received legal advice
that it could do so (apparently the legal advice was not correct, but they still
weren't charged - instead of the legal advice being something like "you, and
even every individual on the floor who makes such a call, may wind up behind
bars for the next fourteen years")...

but at least one major figure within the Conservative party actually made a
public statement to the affect that sort of thing was a normal part of the game
of politics (instead of bordering on treason).

Apparently Canada is starting to follow the bad example set by the United
States.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 15:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On 28/05/2020 02:11, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable
flap which has the details of the voter That's verified
against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact
envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was
filled out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for
that matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that
something is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't
match (having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the
right way") who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What
kind of formal training do they receive in that forensic
science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the
various candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you
don't allow it, why bother even pretending to have an
election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it
"The Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers'
paradise you inhabit is one required to put one's name on the
ballot one casts so that the winning side can track down
everyone who voted against it? If so, please be aware that the
US has a secret ballot. One is required to identify oneself in
order to vote but the identification is not tied to the ballot.
Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered voters in the
polling place, and your name gets checked off when you arrive.
No, you sign the *sealed* envelope in which a second, sealed
envelope containing your ballot papers are placed. This
internal envelope has a flap (q.v), removed by the electoral mob
before the envelope is passed on to the people that physically
open it, scrutinise the ballot, and record it.
So, either both envelopes are opened at the same time, by people in
each other's presence, making it not only trivial but nearly
inherent that a particular ballot can be connected to a specific
voter, or not, and there's no guarantee that the envelope with the
ballot came from a qualified voter because the break in the "chain
of custody," so to speak.

You have perfectly illustrated my point.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
So we have a chain which implies strongly that the unopened
envelope containing the completed[1] ballot papers is indeed as
intended by the voter,
Only if you trust the people who handle those envelopes between
opening the outer one and opening the inner one, or trust the
winners to not seek retribution against those who voted "wrong."

US voters do not trust such people, for good reason.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
but at no point in the process can those
who count things connect the ballot to the voter.
I forget that this is all simple and obvious to people who have
grown up with it, and somehow scary and difficult to those in
the USA.
What's simple and obvious are the sheeple who do as they're told
and believe whatever they're spoon fed.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
The other point to bear in mind is that Oz has compulsory
voting, which means that no nefarious group can "vote the
graveyard" or the like.
Heh. There are a number of ways to compromise the system you
describe, that you have been programmed to be incapabler of
recognizing even when they're pointed out.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Yes, ballots can (and have) been interfered with, but having an
independent Electoral Commission, using paper ballots, and
having competent scrutineers, both from the parties and
nominally independent, means that we have managed to avoid any
real electoral screw-ups.
That you know of. Your very trust in the integrity of people who
have a vested personal interest in having none suggests that if a
real effort were made, you'd never know about it.
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
1 - My using "completed" here does not mean that the ballot is
necessarily "valid," that's a whole other kettle of fish!
Unless the second envelope is opened immediately as well, there's
no way to know if it's valid. And if it is, there's no secret
ballot.

Thanks for making my point so clear.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 15:52:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable
flap which has the details of the voter That's verified
against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact
envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was
filled out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for
that matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that
something is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't
match (having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the
right way") who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind
of formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the
various candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you
don't allow it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it
"The Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers'
paradise you inhabit is one required to put one's name on the
ballot one casts so that the winning side can track down
everyone who voted against it? If so, please be aware that the
US has a secret ballot. One is required to identify oneself in
order to vote but the identification is not tied to the ballot.
Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered voters in the
polling place, and your name gets checked off when you arrive.
It is, as I said, a failing inherent to mail in ballots: you can
verify it came from a qualified voter, or you can have a secret
ballot, but not both.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-05-29 15:58:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable
flap which has the details of the voter That's verified
against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact
envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was
filled out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for
that matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that
something is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't
match (having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the
right way") who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind
of formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the
various candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you
don't allow it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it
"The Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers'
paradise you inhabit is one required to put one's name on the
ballot one casts so that the winning side can track down
everyone who voted against it? If so, please be aware that the
US has a secret ballot. One is required to identify oneself in
order to vote but the identification is not tied to the ballot.
Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered voters in the
polling place, and your name gets checked off when you arrive.
It is, as I said, a failing inherent to mail in ballots: you can
verify it came from a qualified voter, or you can have a secret
ballot, but not both.
And you're simply wrong.

A sealed envelope inside the mailing envelope has a detachable code
flap. That tells you it who it came from.

Detach the flap, then send the ballot on to different people to open and
count.
Paul S Person
2020-05-29 15:58:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 May 2020 02:45:04 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the various
candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you don't allow
it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
ObSF: The Donald Duck/Mickey Mouse options in... Damn, was it "The
Stainless Steel Rat For President?"
What is this "signatures" business? In whatever workers' paradise you
inhabit is one required to put one's name on the ballot one casts so
that the winning side can track down everyone who voted against it? If
so, please be aware that the US has a secret ballot. One is required
to identify oneself in order to vote but the identification is not
tied to the ballot. Generally there's a checkoff list of reqistered
voters in the polling place, and your name gets checked off when you
arrive.
You also /sign/ the list (well, we did here) and the poll-worker /may/
have recorded the ballot number on the detachable endpiece as well.

Well, you have to have /some/ way to verify that the number of ballots
counted equals the number of ballots issued to voters.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 15:51:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that
something is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't
match (having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the
right way") who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind
of formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the
various candidates to scrutinise the votes?
Do other countries really, really trust candidates to do so without
adult supervision? No wonder other countries are such shitholes.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-05-29 15:56:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:27:46 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope, rather
than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too. One inner envelope which
contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a detachable
flap, which is then placed into a second envelope, sealed, and
signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was filled
out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for that
matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that something
is up.
And if the person examining the signature *say* they don't match
(having reviewed whether or not the person voted "the right way")
who is to say they're wrong?
How many people are devoted to comparing signatures? What kind of
formal training do they receive in that forensic science?
Does the USA really, really, not allow representatives of the various
candidates to scrutinise the votes?
I've done it here a few times, at various levels, and if you don't allow
it, why bother even pretending to have an election?
I'm reasonably certain that representatives of the major parties, at
least, do so.

Just as they scrutinize how the polls are working for in-person
voting.

I don't know that they normally scrutinize the actual ballots, but I
would think any ballot rejected by the tallying machine would be
looked at. They would probably be involved in that if a /manual/
recount is ordered.

They clearly /were/ involved in the "hanging chad" recounts in Florida
in 2000.

You have to understand that, since Trump himself has identified this
as merely a 2020 campaign issue (his complaint was, precisely, that
Twitter was interfering in the 2020 campaign by fact-checking his
tweets), it will all vanish like a puff of smoke after the election.
Sort of like the "Mexico will pay for the wall" vanished, never to be
mentioned again, after the 2016 election.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:37:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
On 28/05/2020 02:11, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT),
[SNIP]
Sure you can
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable
flap which has the details of the voter That's verified
against the electoral lists, removed and then the
intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a
vote.
In Washington state it's an entire outer envelope,
rather than a flap, but it's the same principle.
That's how it works in Oz, too.  One inner envelope
which contains the ballot and has the declaration(s) on a
detachable flap, which is then placed into a second
envelope, sealed, and signed.
So there's no way to verify that the actual ballot was
filled out by the registered voter it was sent to. Or, for
that matter, by *any* registered voter?
You can have one or the other, but not both.
Well, if the signatures don't match, I would say that
something is up
.
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the
USA won th
e
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-
)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US
press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan
Rather.
No, the US military won the battles
It lost the war
No, they won the war. The politicians lost the peace (before it
began) because the population wanted them to.
You can tell because of which side had their objectives happen
Our military objectives were achieved. We destroyed the NVA, and
reduced the VC to a pathetic shadow of their previously pathetic
glory. The *political* objectives were achieved, too, if you
consider that the *real* objective was to extract ourselves from a
war that would cost elections - at any cost.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-28 16:51:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the
USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US
press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan
Rather.
No, the US military won the battles
It lost the war
No, they won the war.
Generally you don't measure a war as won when your allies get wiped out and the forces they were fighting end up in control of the area they were fighting over.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The politicians lost the peace (before it
began) because the population wanted them to.
The US population got sick of the continued promises that we've won and this time there won't be another offensive from the enemy
When the government lies too often the public stops believing them
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
You can tell because of which side had their objectives happen
Our military objectives were achieved. We destroyed the NVA, and
reduced the VC to a pathetic shadow of their previously pathetic
glory.
You channelling Shawn nowadays?
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The *political* objectives were achieved, too, if you
consider that the *real* objective was to extract ourselves from a
war that would cost elections - at any cost.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 17:12:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 2:37:38 AM UTC+10, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:44:42 PM UTC+10, Major Oz
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:19:06 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where
the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US
press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to
Dan Rather.
No, the US military won the battles
It lost the war
No, they won the war.
Generally you don't measure a war as won when your allies get
wiped out and the forces they were fighting end up in control of
the area they were fighting over.
Not until after we withdrew.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The politicians lost the peace (before it
began) because the population wanted them to.
The US population got sick of the continued promises that we've
won and this time there won't be another offensive from the
enemy When the government lies too often the public stops
believing them
Because the news media told them to. What people believed and the
reality on the ground, as usual, have only the thinnest connection.
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
You can tell because of which side had their objectives
happen
Our military objectives were achieved. We destroyed the NVA,
and reduced the VC to a pathetic shadow of their previously
pathetic glory.
You channelling Shawn nowadays?
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:42:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 11:09:07 PM UTC-5, Gary R. Schmidt
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental agencies,
and not under the control of any political party, even the one
in power - do regular door-knocks where identity and residence
are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
If we were to do that for everyone here in the US..........there
would be HUGE screams of racism.
And in all likelyhood, those screams would *under*state the reality,
even if they turned to riots.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:42:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sometimes the USA seems a complete waste of democracy...
And yet, we run the world. Go figure.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:46:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:09:07 AM UTC-4, Gary R. Schmidt
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental agencies,
and not under the control of any political party, even the one
in power - do regular door-knocks where identity and residence
are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
A few years ago I lived in three different towns, though just
the one state, in one year. My apartment building had a fire
that displaced me, then I lived in an apartment about 10 miles
away which we moved out of fairly quickly. At last I found my
current place in yet a third town. I could have easily have
been on the voter roll in all 3 towns, if the clerk registering
me at the new domicile messed up the process of informing the
old town to delete my info. I sure as hell wound up getting
property tax bills from more than one town on the same vehicle!
The state Department of Motor Vehicles was responsible for
that mix-up.
Well, if you have single agency that is responsible for voter
registration, and they maintain a singular roll of voters, that
sort of error is less likely.
And the power to abuse that system is in fewer hands.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-29 03:29:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:09:07 AM UTC-4, Gary R. Schmidt
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is
sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental agencies,
and not under the control of any political party, even the one
in power - do regular door-knocks where identity and residence
are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
A few years ago I lived in three different towns, though just
the one state, in one year. My apartment building had a fire
that displaced me, then I lived in an apartment about 10 miles
away which we moved out of fairly quickly. At last I found my
current place in yet a third town. I could have easily have
been on the voter roll in all 3 towns, if the clerk registering
me at the new domicile messed up the process of informing the
old town to delete my info. I sure as hell wound up getting
property tax bills from more than one town on the same vehicle!
The state Department of Motor Vehicles was responsible for
that mix-up.
Well, if you have single agency that is responsible for voter
registration, and they maintain a singular roll of voters, that
sort of error is less likely.
And the power to abuse that system is in fewer hands.
You really do not comprehend the size of a Government Agency in a
Westminster Democracy, do you.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 16:01:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:09:07 AM UTC-4, Gary R.
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has the details of the voter That's verified against
the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope
is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahead of time, with some election
commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental
agencies, and not under the control of any political party,
even the one in power - do regular door-knocks where
identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if
undeliverable, in order to get names of those who have
possibly moved or died. This is considered "voter
suppression" by some.
A few years ago I lived in three different towns, though just
the one state, in one year. My apartment building had a fire
that displaced me, then I lived in an apartment about 10
miles away which we moved out of fairly quickly. At last I
found my current place in yet a third town. I could have
easily have been on the voter roll in all 3 towns, if the
clerk registering me at the new domicile messed up the
process of informing the old town to delete my info. I sure
as hell wound up getting property tax bills from more than
one town on the same vehicle!
The state Department of Motor Vehicles was responsible for
that mix-up.
Well, if you have single agency that is responsible for voter
registration, and they maintain a singular roll of voters,
that sort of error is less likely.
And the power to abuse that system is in fewer hands.
You really do not comprehend the size of a Government Agency in
a Westminster Democracy, do you.
Is it your claim that multiple agencies would *not* mean more
people?

Are you that fucking *stupid*?

Appaerntly so.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 16:57:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:04:56 AM UTC-5,
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap
which has
the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and
then the in
tact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in
person, ahea
d of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by
providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory,
and one federal - which are independent governmental
agencies, and not under th
e
control of any political party, even the one in power - do
regular door-knocks where identity and residence are
verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I
suppose it mus
t be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
It relies on the loyalty to duty of the postal service, which as
we know, President Trump distrusts. He isn’t alone either.
A postal service employee was just arrested for tampering with vote
by mail stuff a few days ago. Specifically, he changed the party
affiliation on the requests.

Not large scale, but excatly what conservaties say that lefties do.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 17:00:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:13:53 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
BTW, Charlotteville, legally contracted site of the RNC this
year, is becoming the next Hot Spot. But perhaps it will
have peaked by August.
Wow dude, you are delusional.
It's so obvious it's embarassing. One wonders if he's in the
US, or just relying on the international press propaganda for
his mental image of the US.
He can't tell Charlottesville, VA from Charlotte, NC,
though there's many a USAian that couldn't.
He can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground, even with a thumb
test.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Major Oz
2020-05-28 17:52:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
Another delusion.
Me, Giap, or Rather ?
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-28 17:55:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
It should also be obvious that a literal coup by a leftist dictator
is more dangnerous than the virus.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't agree that, say, Gretchen Whitmer is a potential or aspiring "leftist dictator" by any stretch of the imagination, though.
John Savard
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said that she was
going to punish them for not following her orders.
Lynn
I have no knowledge of the case at all but a different and more credible
narrative applies: the virus must be held back, and that is to be done by
people not gathering together for as long as is required to have the
necessary effect. If a minority of people are gathering together just
as a form of resistance to the rule of not gathering together, then the
virus is not being held back. Consequently, to have the effect
originally intended will now require that the rule of not gathering
together is kept in place for a longer period of time.

To put it more simply, taking a holiday from your lockdown just
means that you collectively have to spend that much extra time,
or even more, to complete your lockdown.

It’s your own time you’re wasting.

I’m ashamed that this also has had to be explained to people
in Scotland by our wise and reasonable First Minister, especially
during recent extremely nice weather. I haven’t heard it in the
messages from England where the government isn’t sticking to
the rules itself anyway.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-28 23:57:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 2:20:50 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Tumbili Kuj
It should also be obvious that a literal coup by a leftist
dictator is more dangnerous than the virus.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't agree that, say, Gretchen
Whitmer is a
potential or aspiring "leftist dictator" by any stretch of the
imagination, though.
John Savard
Oh, she crossed right into the dictator thing when she said
that she was
going to punish them for not following her orders.
Lynn
I have no knowledge of the case at all
Then perhaps you should STFU about it, foreigner.
but a different and more
credible narrative
A more accurate for for "narrative" is "propaganda." And that is,
in fact, the correct context here.
applies: the virus must be held back, and
that is to be done by people not gathering together for as long
as is required to have the necessary effect. If a minority of
people are gathering together just as a form of resistance to
the rule of not gathering together, then the virus is not being
held back. Consequently, to have the effect originally intended
will now require that the rule of not gathering together is kept
in place for a longer period of time.
You're willing to literally kill people in a way that destroys
democracy - for disagreeing with your poltiical beliefs. That makes
you a fascist.

Civilized people consider you a subhuman monster.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-05-29 07:48:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
applies: the virus must be held back, and
that is to be done by people not gathering together for as long
as is required to have the necessary effect. If a minority of
people are gathering together just as a form of resistance to
the rule of not gathering together, then the virus is not being
held back. Consequently, to have the effect originally intended
will now require that the rule of not gathering together is kept
in place for a longer period of time.
You're willing to literally kill people in a way that destroys
democracy - for disagreeing with your poltiical beliefs. That makes
you a fascist.
Civilized people consider you a subhuman monster.
Nope. Civilized people consider you a liar.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-05-29 16:02:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 5:57:33 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Robert Carnegie
applies: the virus must be held back, and
that is to be done by people not gathering together for as
long as is required to have the necessary effect. If a
minority of people are gathering together just as a form of
resistance to the rule of not gathering together, then the
virus is not being held back. Consequently, to have the
effect originally intended will now require that the rule of
not gathering together is kept in place for a longer period
of time.
You're willing to literally kill people in a way that destroys
democracy - for disagreeing with your poltiical beliefs. That
makes you a fascist.
Civilized people consider you a subhuman monster.
Nope. Civilized people consider you a liar.
We've known for some time that you're a racist asshole with murder
fantasies you're too cowardly to ever act on, son. You don't need to
keep proving it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Lynn McGuire
2020-05-28 18:29:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has
the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the
intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person,
ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing
a photo ID ?
In your dreams.
I must have been dreaming then, because my daughter just registered,
with her photo ID.
We allow people to register in advance, the voting age here is 18, the
same as the drinking age, but we allow people to register at 16, she did
so after getting her learner driver permit.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Sorry, here in Texas you can register to vote just by sending in a card,
no id required. But when you actually vote in person, you must show a
government issued photo id.

I am unclear on the absentee balloting here in Texas though as I am
neither 65 nor disabled.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/27/politics/texas-supreme-court-blocks-vote-by-mail-expansion/index.html

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-28 18:42:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
It relies on the loyalty to duty of the postal service, which as we know,
President Trump distrusts. He isn’t alone either.
Trump does not trust anyone who's loyalty is not to Trump personally.
His pattern of behavior indicates that he has a special dislike of
anyone who's loyalty is to the law.

The fact that so many others in the US share that same dislike is IMO a
great flaw in the American culture and mythology.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
J. Clarke
2020-05-28 21:35:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 May 2020 11:42:55 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
It relies on the loyalty to duty of the postal service, which as we know,
President Trump distrusts. He isn’t alone either.
Trump does not trust anyone who's loyalty is not to Trump personally.
His pattern of behavior indicates that he has a special dislike of
anyone who's loyalty is to the law.
The fact that so many others in the US share that same dislike is IMO a
great flaw in the American culture and mythology.
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Quadibloc
2020-05-28 21:38:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Oh, that's true. In the case of loyalty to the Constitution of the U.S. versus
loyalty to Donald J. Trump, though, I think it's not difficult to see which one is
more likely to lead one to the right thing to do.

John Savard
Major Oz
2020-05-28 21:41:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Oh, that's true. In the case of loyalty to the Constitution of the U.S. versus
loyalty to Donald J. Trump, though, I think it's not difficult to see which one is
more likely to lead one to the right thing to do.
John Savard
....and, of course....

/s/

It is not possible to have both

/s/
Alan Baker
2020-05-28 22:35:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Oh, that's true. In the case of loyalty to the Constitution of the U.S. versus
loyalty to Donald J. Trump, though, I think it's not difficult to see which one is
more likely to lead one to the right thing to do.
John Savard
....and, of course....
/s/
It is not possible to have both
/s/
It's not possible to have a belief in the rule of law and loyalty to
Donald Trump.
Major Oz
2020-05-29 02:47:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Oh, that's true. In the case of loyalty to the Constitution of the U.S. versus
loyalty to Donald J. Trump, though, I think it's not difficult to see which one is
more likely to lead one to the right thing to do.
John Savard
....and, of course....
/s/
It is not possible to have both
/s/
It's not possible to have a belief in the rule of law and loyalty to
Donald Trump.
I assume you have also seen bigfoot
Quadibloc
2020-05-28 23:16:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass. There is the right thing to do and there is the lawful thing to
do. When the two are the same all is well. When they are in conflict
there is a problem.
Oh, that's true. In the case of loyalty to the Constitution of the U.S. versus
loyalty to Donald J. Trump, though, I think it's not difficult to see which one is
more likely to lead one to the right thing to do.
....and, of course....
/s/
It is not possible to have both
/s/
Oh, it is. But "no man can serve two masters", so _if_ a conflict appeared
between the two, what one chooses shows where one's ultimate loyalty lies.

Trump's supporters, for example, point out that winning by the Electoral College
is winning fair and square, since that's in the Constitution.

His detractors see him in conflict with the spirit of certain other parts of the
U.S. Constitution, but that conflict has not come to a head - they fear what
Trump's appointees on the Supreme Court might do, rather than condemning what
they have done.

John Savard
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-29 14:50:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 28 May 2020 11:42:55 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
The way Australia does it is that there's a removable flap which has the details of the voter
That's verified against the electoral lists, removed and then the intact envelope is sent elsewhere to be counted as a vote.
Does that presuppose that the "voter" has registered, in person, ahead of time, with some election commission.....perhaps by providing a photo ID ?
The Electoral Commissions, one for each state and territory, and one
federal - which are independent governmental agencies, and not under the
control of any political party, even the one in power - do regular
door-knocks where identity and residence are verified.
It's not terribly difficult... Well, if you're USAian I suppose it must be.
"You got a warrant...?"
Our doors are usually farther apart.
A little internet search will show how some freak out when
the state or local commission responsible for keeping the
voter rolls send mail with an order to return if undeliverable,
in order to get names of those who have possibly moved or died.
This is considered "voter suppression" by some.
It relies on the loyalty to duty of the postal service, which as we know,
President Trump distrusts. He isn’t alone either.
Trump does not trust anyone who's loyalty is not to Trump personally.
His pattern of behavior indicates that he has a special dislike of
anyone who's loyalty is to the law.
The fact that so many others in the US share that same dislike is IMO a
great flaw in the American culture and mythology.
The problem with loyalty to the law is that the law is sometimes an
ass.
The law is the law, a donkey is a donkey. The two can never
be equivalent.

Because you don't _like_ a law, doesn't make it a "not-law".
Moriarty
2020-05-28 21:38:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Well, the only other rasfw regular (that I recall) who used to parrot the line that we won the Vietnam War was Shawn Wilson. Maybe they're all the same person?

-Moriarty
Major Oz
2020-05-28 21:44:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Well, the only other rasfw regular (that I recall) who used to parrot the line that we won the Vietnam War was Shawn Wilson. Maybe they're all the same person?
And.....accusations of parroting could never be called, itself.......parroting, could it ?
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-28 22:01:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Well, the only other rasfw regular (that I recall) who used to parrot the line that we won the Vietnam War was Shawn Wilson. Maybe they're all the same person?
And.....accusations of parroting could never be called, itself.......parroting, could it ?
I will both parrot the line that the US won the Vietnam war military AND
parrot the parroting of parroting being parroting.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Major Oz
2020-05-29 02:46:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Major Oz
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Well, the only other rasfw regular (that I recall) who used to parrot the line that we won the Vietnam War was Shawn Wilson. Maybe they're all the same person?
And.....accusations of parroting could never be called, itself.......parroting, could it ?
I will both parrot the line that the US won the Vietnam war military AND
parrot the parroting of parroting being parroting.
Thank you for your consistency.
Gary R. Schmidt
2020-05-29 03:41:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Moriarty
<snip>
But you keep on living in your sad little world, where the USA won the
Vietnam War, and sundry other delusions hold sway.  :-)
    Cheers,
        Gary    B-)
Well said.
Point of order.....
The US military DID win the war.....it was lost by the US press.
Even Gen Giap admitted that.......and was damn grateful to Dan Rather.
You *are* Terry, AICMFP.
Well, the only other rasfw regular (that I recall) who used to parrot the line that we won the Vietnam War was Shawn Wilson. Maybe they're all the same person?
And.....accusations of parroting could never be called, itself.......parroting, could it ?
Nah, you're just another sock-puppet.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...
Chrysi Cat
2020-05-28 22:35:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
John, you ignore the fact that political action can kill people. So
far COVID-19 has killed about 350,000. The collapse of the elected
government in Germany ended up killing about 20 million. And that was
in a world with a much smaller population and much less capable
weapons.
So, is it really so wrong to put a risk to the US Constitution ahead
of a medical risk? How many people would a 21st Century American
Hitler kill?
Your point is entirely valid. I did choose an argument with a flaw.
That, however, state governors banning gatherings to limit the spread of
COVID-19 is indicative that they're up to something that will lead to war and
violence, is something I have a hard time seeing as worthy of consideration.
John Savard
Everything in the US has been leading to war and violence since at least
2009 and arguably the 1990s.

The only question is who finally decide that federal law is about to
impose another region's values on their home region for over a lifetime
FIRST, and thus secede.

Right now, my money would be that Terry's right that Trump keeps the
White House, and if he does, then while the preferable action would be
for the entire population of Pacifica and New England to flee to Canada,
the problem is Canada doesn't accept Americans who have less than 3
million dollars in savings unless they also have a 2-year job guarantee
(and no, I have no idea what happens if they then get fired for cause).

Indeed, every ("other?") industrialised country in the world holds
Americans to standards at least as high as are demanded of Third World
immigrants, including some where Americans are considered _less_ desirable.

So at that point the only way that the people in the
non-Confederate-friendly states don't get to live in a country where
people are free to discriminate against one another as long as their god
is the one they claim forbids them doing business with the targeted
party, among other reforms that will make the country look much more
like Russia than like England is, ironically, if THEY remove themselves
from Washington's purview just the way the Confederacy did.

And largely for the same reason; we can see that a lot of things we've
taken for granted are about to be ended, with the explicit statement
that only a constitutional amendment can recover them--in a country
where we know we can _never_ control 38 states at once for the
ratification, because a lot of them are places beset by terrible
brain-drain where they cling harder to the supremacy of religion over
secularity than XVI-century Europeans.

At this point, I'm just hoping that DC *lets* us go rather than trying
to keep hold, and that whether or /not/ DC lets us go, that my parents
don't decide that Newsom and Polis are tyrants, and that thus their
loyalty will be to DC whether they have to sabotage a new nation (should
there be war) or move to the rump US (should there be peaceful separation).

Because whether or not they get to have their 6-3 or 7-2 SCOTUS majority
by 2022, the GOP will likely get the country back someday and at that
point once again try to lock the New Deal and Great Society behind a
door reading "constitutional amendment required". Let alone anything
post-Stonewall, which I'm kind of attached to for ovbvious reasons.

At this point? I'm just hoping people understand the value of peaceful
separation rather than fighting to maintain a marriage that's probably
been toxic since the War of 1812 (which as we know marked the /first/ US
secession crisis. It would have seen New England invite George to take
them back, had the US not started turning the war around).
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-29 00:05:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
John, you ignore the fact that political action can kill people. So
far COVID-19 has killed about 350,000. The collapse of the elected
government in Germany ended up killing about 20 million. And that was
in a world with a much smaller population and much less capable
weapons.
So, is it really so wrong to put a risk to the US Constitution ahead
of a medical risk? How many people would a 21st Century American
Hitler kill?
Your point is entirely valid. I did choose an argument with a flaw.
That, however, state governors banning gatherings to limit the spread of
COVID-19 is indicative that they're up to something that will lead to war and
violence, is something I have a hard time seeing as worthy of consideration.
John Savard
Everything in the US has been leading to war and violence since at least
2009 and arguably the 1990s.
The only question is who finally decide that federal law is about to
impose another region's values on their home region for over a lifetime
FIRST, and thus secede.
Right now, my money would be that Terry's right that Trump keeps the
White House, and if he does, then while the preferable action would be
for the entire population of Pacifica and New England to flee to Canada,
the problem is Canada doesn't accept Americans who have less than 3
million dollars in savings unless they also have a 2-year job guarantee
(and no, I have no idea what happens if they then get fired for cause).
Indeed, every ("other?") industrialised country in the world holds
Americans to standards at least as high as are demanded of Third World
immigrants, including some where Americans are considered _less_ desirable.
So at that point the only way that the people in the
non-Confederate-friendly states don't get to live in a country where
people are free to discriminate against one another as long as their god
is the one they claim forbids them doing business with the targeted
party, among other reforms that will make the country look much more
like Russia than like England is, ironically, if THEY remove themselves
from Washington's purview just the way the Confederacy did.
And largely for the same reason; we can see that a lot of things we've
taken for granted are about to be ended, with the explicit statement
that only a constitutional amendment can recover them--in a country
where we know we can _never_ control 38 states at once for the
ratification, because a lot of them are places beset by terrible
brain-drain where they cling harder to the supremacy of religion over
secularity than XVI-century Europeans.
At this point, I'm just hoping that DC *lets* us go rather than trying
to keep hold, and that whether or /not/ DC lets us go, that my parents
don't decide that Newsom and Polis are tyrants, and that thus their
loyalty will be to DC whether they have to sabotage a new nation (should
there be war) or move to the rump US (should there be peaceful separation).
Because whether or not they get to have their 6-3 or 7-2 SCOTUS majority
by 2022, the GOP will likely get the country back someday and at that
point once again try to lock the New Deal and Great Society behind a
door reading "constitutional amendment required". Let alone anything
post-Stonewall, which I'm kind of attached to for ovbvious reasons.
At this point? I'm just hoping people understand the value of peaceful
separation rather than fighting to maintain a marriage that's probably
been toxic since the War of 1812 (which as we know marked the /first/ US
secession crisis. It would have seen New England invite George to take
them back, had the US not started turning the war around).
Did we notice that the President-approved COVID-19 drug remdesivir,
or whatever, is made by a company named Gilead?

(Why did they name the drug after Aragorn’s horse though... I suppose
“horse” is drugs slang.)
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