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Quora: Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
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David Johnston
2018-09-23 19:26:05 UTC
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Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston

“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.

“Our culture is post-scarcity. We have outgrown the need for primitive
concepts such as “money”.” There is no such thing as “post-scarcity”.
Personal services are never in unlimited supply, people’s desires expand
to match their supply and I want my own personal starship. Also
replicators violate conservation laws.

“Evolution has a predestined outcome and we have a moral obligation to
help reach it.” No, it doesn’t, and no we don’t. We are no more
obligated to “help” evolution than we are obligated to “help” gravity.
Nor are we constrained to avoid interfering in either of those things.
And no, we aren’t destined to become more and more intelligent until we
turn into balls of light.

“Alien intelligent life would look and think nothing like humanity” OK,
sure, pasting a few appliances on a human actor’s face or painting them
blue or green isn’t a realistic way of portraying an independently
evolved lifeform. But at the same time the general human body plan, an
upright bilaterally symmetrical biped with a head is actually really
likely for an advanced tool-user. Advanced tool use requires
manipulative members and locomotion. Efficient locomotion under gravity
requires limbs with bones or at least an exoskeleton. Placing your
ranged sensory organs and your pie-hole at the front of a horizontal
body makes so much sense that it would probably be extremely unlikely
for any other arrangement to evolve and means a head at the top when
they transition to an upright posture. And probably with a neck because
being able to turn your sensory organs is a huge advantage.

It’s the same thing with alien intelligent life thinking nothing like
humanity. Just defining them as “intelligent life” means they already
would have a lot in common in humanity. And being shaped by the same
basic survival needs that humanity is means that alien advanced tool
users would actually have a lot in common with the way we think.

Yes, there would be differences, in form and in thought. But when people
declare that that aliens would all be utterly bizarre in form and
incomprehensible in action…well that’s just overcompensation.
Wolffan
2018-09-23 22:00:05 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.

The tropes which most annoy me are the Vid Screen Trope (everyone uses some
kind of video system to communicate, despite bandwidth costs, despite certain
interference problems, despite the fact that there will be times when you do
NOT want live video of you going out; the classic your momma calls while you
and your sig other are getting frisky is but one scenario. The Vid Screen
Trope is allied with the It’s Around The Corner Trope, wherein it’s
possible to make vid screen (or even just voice-only) calls, real-time,
between Earth and Mars (or Alpha Cerntari A 3) without waiting for that pesky
speed-of-light lag.

Also up there, usually in film/tv, is the Space Battles Are Fought At Very
Close Range Trope and its ally, Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!, both
of ‘em usually with lots of explod-o-rays. Explod-o-rays themselves are yet
another annoyance; they’re usually supposed to be some kind of laser, but
you can’t see visible light lasers in space, no air (duh!) and you can’t
see ultraviolet or x-ray lasers, period; in air you can see the track where
the beam ionizes air molecules, but THERE’S NO AIR. And it’s never been
clear why explod-o-rays explode. Plasma and/or particle beam weapons would be
_worse_ than lasers. In film/tv but also, regrettably, in print, there’s
the Spaceships Have Decks Parallel To The Thrust Of Their Main Motors Trope,
which goes very well with Space Battles Are Fought at Very Close Range and
Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!. Lots of mile long spaceships looming
phallically, their potent main batteries, often spinal mounts, ejaculating
explod-o-rays... (Yes, I _do_ have a filthy mind; damn proud of it, too.) And
there’s the Where’s the Reaction Mass? Trope, again allied with the
above. Our Heroes are accelerating constantly, pulling high gees, with a
bloody great exhaust trail out the back... so where’s all that reaction
mass kept? What kind of specific impulse do those things have, anyway?
David Johnston
2018-09-23 22:10:33 UTC
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Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
The tropes which most annoy me are the Vid Screen Trope (everyone uses some
kind of video system to communicate, despite bandwidth costs, despite certain
interference problems, despite the fact that there will be times when you do
NOT want live video of you going out; the classic your momma calls while you
and your sig other are getting frisky is but one scenario. The Vid Screen
Trope is allied with the It’s Around The Corner Trope, wherein it’s
possible to make vid screen (or even just voice-only) calls, real-time,
between Earth and Mars (or Alpha Cerntari A 3) without waiting for that pesky
speed-of-light lag.
Also up there, usually in film/tv, is the Space Battles Are Fought At Very
Close Range Trope and its ally, Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!, both
of ‘em usually with lots of explod-o-rays. Explod-o-rays themselves are yet
another annoyance; they’re usually supposed to be some kind of laser, but
you can’t see visible light lasers in space, no air (duh!) and you can’t
see ultraviolet or x-ray lasers, period; in air you can see the track where
the beam ionizes air molecules, but THERE’S NO AIR. And it’s never been
clear why explod-o-rays explode. Plasma and/or particle beam weapons would be
_worse_ than lasers. In film/tv but also, regrettably, in print, there’s
the Spaceships Have Decks Parallel To The Thrust Of Their Main Motors Trope,
which goes very well with Space Battles Are Fought at Very Close Range and
Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!. Lots of mile long spaceships looming
phallically, their potent main batteries, often spinal mounts, ejaculating
explod-o-rays... (Yes, I _do_ have a filthy mind; damn proud of it, too.) And
there’s the Where’s the Reaction Mass? Trope, again allied with the
above. Our Heroes are accelerating constantly, pulling high gees, with a
bloody great exhaust trail out the back... so where’s all that reaction
mass kept? What kind of specific impulse do those things have, anyway?
Nah. I'm OK with reactionless drives. Impossible technologies are par
for the course in science fiction. Not having them would cut off too
story possibilities. The herbivorous animals are harmless one on the
other than is a dangerous misconception that doesn't really open up any
possibilities, so it's just stupid for stupid's sake.
Wolffan
2018-09-23 22:24:01 UTC
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Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
The tropes which most annoy me are the Vid Screen Trope (everyone uses some
kind of video system to communicate, despite bandwidth costs, despite certain
interference problems, despite the fact that there will be times when you do
NOT want live video of you going out; the classic your momma calls while you
and your sig other are getting frisky is but one scenario. The Vid Screen
Trope is allied with the It’s Around The Corner Trope, wherein it’s
possible to make vid screen (or even just voice-only) calls, real-time,
between Earth and Mars (or Alpha Cerntari A 3) without waiting for that pesky
speed-of-light lag.
Also up there, usually in film/tv, is the Space Battles Are Fought At Very
Close Range Trope and its ally, Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!, both
of ‘em usually with lots of explod-o-rays. Explod-o-rays themselves are yet
another annoyance; they’re usually supposed to be some kind of laser, but
you can’t see visible light lasers in space, no air (duh!) and you can’t
see ultraviolet or x-ray lasers, period; in air you can see the track where
the beam ionizes air molecules, but THERE’S NO AIR. And it’s never been
clear why explod-o-rays explode. Plasma and/or particle beam weapons would be
_worse_ than lasers. In film/tv but also, regrettably, in print, there’s
the Spaceships Have Decks Parallel To The Thrust Of Their Main Motors Trope,
which goes very well with Space Battles Are Fought at Very Close Range and
Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!. Lots of mile long spaceships looming
phallically, their potent main batteries, often spinal mounts, ejaculating
explod-o-rays... (Yes, I _do_ have a filthy mind; damn proud of it, too.) And
there’s the Where’s the Reaction Mass? Trope, again allied with the
above. Our Heroes are accelerating constantly, pulling high gees, with a
bloody great exhaust trail out the back... so where’s all that reaction
mass kept? What kind of specific impulse do those things have, anyway?
Nah. I'm OK with reactionless drives. Impossible technologies are par
for the course in science fiction. Not having them would cut off too
story possibilities. The herbivorous animals are harmless one on the
other than is a dangerous misconception that doesn't really open up any
possibilities, so it's just stupid for stupid's sake.
In lots of fiction, often in print but very often in film/tv, the ships
ain’t reactionless. Babylon 5 explicitly had the Earth Alliance ships have
big honking rocket motors in the back, and spun parts for gravity...
including _spinning while under acceleration_, which must have created
_interesting_ inner-ear effects. Star Wars and especially Battlestar
Galactica had big honking rocket motors in the backs of their ships; BSG v1
used _chemical fuels_, I’m not sure about v2. There are a _lot_ more like
that. Where’s the reaction mass stored? what keeps stuff from flying aft
when the ship is under accel? Hell, what holds a ship the size of Galactica,
or a Star Destroyer, or USS Saratoga from Space: Below and God Help Us,
together when they light their main motors?
a***@yahoo.com
2018-09-24 00:20:15 UTC
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Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or bison or other large herbivores....
J. Clarke
2018-09-24 02:40:37 UTC
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Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or bison or other large herbivores....
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
Mike Van Pelt
2018-09-25 00:07:58 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
"A .600 Nitro Express? Seriously? That's an elephant gun. Why would
you use .600 Nitro Express for Cape Buffalo?"

"Because they dinna make a bluddie .700 Nitro Express."
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Cryptoengineer
2018-09-25 01:39:47 UTC
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Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
"A .600 Nitro Express? Seriously? That's an elephant gun. Why would
you use .600 Nitro Express for Cape Buffalo?"
"Because they dinna make a bluddie .700 Nitro Express."
They do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.700_Nitro_Express

If you want to get silly:
.950 JDJ

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ssk-industries-950-jdj-rifle-
largest-centerfire-rifle-ever-made-video/
Robert Woodward
2018-09-25 05:01:55 UTC
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Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
"A .600 Nitro Express? Seriously? That's an elephant gun. Why would
you use .600 Nitro Express for Cape Buffalo?"
"Because they dinna make a bluddie .700 Nitro Express."
They do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.700_Nitro_Express
I suspect that they didn't when that quote was written.

ObSF: "A Gun for Dinosaur"
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Mike Van Pelt
2018-09-25 23:12:52 UTC
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Post by Robert Woodward
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
"A .600 Nitro Express? Seriously? That's an elephant gun. Why would
you use .600 Nitro Express for Cape Buffalo?"
"Because they dinna make a bluddie .700 Nitro Express."
They do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.700_Nitro_Express
I suspect that they didn't when that quote was written.
That's my understanding. The joke was written back in
the heyday of the Big Game Hunter.

(From the wikipedia page...) introduced in 1988. Yeah,
I think I heard that joke before 1988.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
J. Clarke
2018-09-26 01:26:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:39:47 -0500, Cryptoengineer
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
"A .600 Nitro Express? Seriously? That's an elephant gun. Why would
you use .600 Nitro Express for Cape Buffalo?"
"Because they dinna make a bluddie .700 Nitro Express."
They do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.700_Nitro_Express
.950 JDJ
https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ssk-industries-950-jdj-rifle-
largest-centerfire-rifle-ever-made-video/
I hate to break it to anybody who is impressed by that, but the 88 was
centerfire. And it was far from the largest.
Michael F. Stemper
2018-09-25 13:21:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or bison or other large herbivores....
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
This makes me think of the Bandersnatchii in Niven's Known Space
setting, who negotiated hunting rights with humans, stacked to have
a rough parity between Bandersnatchii killed by human hunters and
human hunters killed while hunting them.

Kind of ironic, given that setting is probably the trope codifier for
the first one up top.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 94:3-6
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 14:36:02 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about
dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was
a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture
taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have
been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or
bison or other large herbivores....
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
This makes me think of the Bandersnatchii in Niven's Known Space
setting, who negotiated hunting rights with humans, stacked to have
a rough parity between Bandersnatchii killed by human hunters and
human hunters killed while hunting them.
A similar deal was made with the crest cats in the first Telzey
Amberdon story, whose title escapes me this morning (and I'm not
about to get up and search the bookshelves for it).
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
m***@sky.com
2018-09-25 17:39:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about
dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was
a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture
taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have
been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or
bison or other large herbivores....
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
This makes me think of the Bandersnatchii in Niven's Known Space
setting, who negotiated hunting rights with humans, stacked to have
a rough parity between Bandersnatchii killed by human hunters and
human hunters killed while hunting them.
A similar deal was made with the crest cats in the first Telzey
Amberdon story, whose title escapes me this morning (and I'm not
about to get up and search the bookshelves for it).
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
I think I have this as a novel titled "The Universe Against Her" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/592014.The_Universe_Against_Her
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 22:29:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by J. Clarke
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
When I was a kid, I read a book called "Man is the Prey" about
dangerous animals. There was a section about Buffalo or Bison. There was
a case in which hunter shot one and then stood by it to have his picture
taken. The animal stood up and killed the hunter. The book might have
been sensationalistic, but at least I wont mess around with hippos or
bison or other large herbivores....
Post by J. Clarke
Cape Buffalo is supposed to be the most dangerous game in Africa--they
don't kill the most people--that would be hippos, just the most people
who _shot_ at them.
This makes me think of the Bandersnatchii in Niven's Known Space
setting, who negotiated hunting rights with humans, stacked to have
a rough parity between Bandersnatchii killed by human hunters and
human hunters killed while hunting them.
A similar deal was made with the crest cats in the first Telzey
Amberdon story, whose title escapes me this morning (and I'm not
about to get up and search the bookshelves for it).
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
I think I have this as a novel titled "The Universe Against Her"
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/592014.The_Universe_Against_Her
Right.

But it was originally a novella in _Analog._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Mike Van Pelt
2018-09-25 23:30:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Michael F. Stemper
This makes me think of the Bandersnatchii in Niven's Known Space
setting, who negotiated hunting rights with humans, stacked to have
a rough parity between Bandersnatchii killed by human hunters and
human hunters killed while hunting them.
A similar deal was made with the crest cats in the first Telzey
Amberdon story, whose title escapes me this morning (and I'm not
about to get up and search the bookshelves for it).
It wasn't a deal. Big game hunters went after the cats for
trophies. Most of them kind of lost interest when the statistics
for the pastime got out.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by m***@sky.com
I think I have this as a novel titled "The Universe Against Her"
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/592014.The_Universe_Against_Her
Right.
But it was originally a novella in _Analog._
"The Novice". Telzey somehow got a pet alien kitty with cute
wall-climbing gecko feet, and a color-changing fur that lets it
blend in almost completely invisibly against any background.

And it ... grows a bit. Somewhere between cougar and African
lioness size, I think.

It turns out it's one of those crest cats. They're intelligent,
and telepathic. And of such a ... character ... that they were
perfectly OK with the 50/50 kill ratio, and were really quite
disappointed when the big game hunters decided to move on to
something less ... sporting.

Then researchers started darting them from air-cars to study,
which the crest cats considered Not Sporting At All, so they all
went into hiding, and while presumed mysteriously extinct, were
secretly in the process of putting together an operation to Take
The Human Colony Out, all at once.

Then Telzey shows up with a crest cat that's on friendly terms
with humans... or, one human at least...

I love that near the end scene. "OK, you don't believe me, but
I can prove that they're sapient. But the moment they show their
hand, you will have exactly three seconds to make the right
decision..."

(I enjoyed that story a lot... I need to go read it again.)
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Moriarty
2018-09-24 00:54:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.

Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.

-Moriarty
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-24 09:21:14 UTC
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Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.

But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-24 12:50:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
As I forget who it was said, plants aren't very bright and they
can't run away from you.
Post by David Johnston
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Greg Goss
2018-09-24 14:30:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As I forget who it was said, plants aren't very bright and they
can't run away from you.
Speaker-to-Animals (later awarded the name Chmeee)
(vaguely, from memory)

"How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?"
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Robert Woodward
2018-09-24 16:49:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As I forget who it was said, plants aren't very bright and they
can't run away from you.
Speaker-to-Animals (later awarded the name Chmeee)
(vaguely, from memory)
"How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?"
A nightshade wishes to point out that it does take some intelligence to
recognize which leaves are unsafe to eat.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Kevrob
2018-09-24 17:07:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
As I forget who it was said, plants aren't very bright and they
can't run away from you.
Speaker-to-Animals (later awarded the name Chmeee)
(vaguely, from memory)
"How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?"
They get their revenge, from the grave, on humans who are careless
about driving or cycling on them in the rain.

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2018-09-24 23:25:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Alan Baker
2018-09-24 23:50:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Carnivores who eat vermin are far more useful around the house than
herbivores who eat your potted plants. :)
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 03:51:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant
herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized
is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against
predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Carnivores who eat vermin are far more useful around the house than
herbivores who eat your potted plants. :)
But watch out for the carnivores eating your potted plants. See
"Breaking Cat News," _passim._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2018-09-25 11:07:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant
herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized
is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against
predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Carnivores who eat vermin are far more useful around the house than
herbivores who eat your potted plants. :)
But watch out for the carnivores eating your potted plants. See
"Breaking Cat News," _passim._
That giant orange thing eats them, too.

Garfield is an omnivore, though. Lasagna, Lyman, coffee......

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2018-09-25 00:06:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Two of them ! But not on the bed.

Lynn
J. Clarke
2018-09-25 00:29:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 19:06:29 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Two of them ! But not on the bed.
Just disqualified yourself for Heinlein's K-9 Corps.
Lynn McGuire
2018-09-25 02:39:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 19:06:29 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/ should have
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
Two of them ! But not on the bed.
Just disqualified yourself for Heinlein's K-9 Corps.
My wife's uncle was a K-9 state police officer in New York. He had a
130 German Shepard by the name of Brummer. Brummer slept on his bed.
My son at two years age loved Brummer and followed him everywhere. Both
my wife's uncle and Brummer have passed on to their rewards now.

Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 03:50:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.

/sniff

We hope to move next summer (to the other side of the Carquinez
Bridge, so we don't have to pay so many bridge tolls), and then
maybe I can get a small carnivore.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Peter Trei
2018-09-25 19:16:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...

...and we think its 'cute'.

pt
Dimensional Traveler
2018-09-25 20:06:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Kevrob
2018-09-25 21:17:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
That's an old trope, too.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet

Kevin R
Dimensional Traveler
2018-09-25 21:25:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P

And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!

(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-25 22:36:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....

Well, anyway:
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
Dimensional Traveler
2018-09-26 03:04:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
that I have experience with the insidious traps some worlds create and
know to avoid them!
Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Peter Trei
2018-09-26 13:24:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
that I have experience with the insidious traps some worlds create and
know to avoid them!
Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
more to the point:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife

pt
D B Davis
2018-09-26 14:37:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
that I have experience with the insidious traps some worlds create and
know to avoid them!
Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
As the warm weather wanes, my dog walks migrate to city streets in order
to avoid mud. The nights grow long while a stillness reminiscent of
"The City" (Bradbury) descends upon my city.
It's a mere shadow of cryptoscopophilia to note the depressing
regularity with which TV images radiate outward from within darkened
house after darkened house. The TV typically occupies the most prominent
place in the house. And it's always powered "on."

_Perry Rhodan #1 Enterprise Stardust_

"What are those people over there doing?" inquired
Rhodan. The strange music had changed once more and now
resembled an urgent whispering.
Khrest turned his head painfully. "They are engaged in
the usual simulator game. It has contributed much to the
collapse of will and spirit among my people. Billions of
Arkonides stand vigil by those screens daily while games
are created by different masters of the medium. Highly
complex. It is the audio-visual representation of elements
in the subjective psyche. My people would waste their lives
in this fashion. The situation in gradually worsening. For
example, there are only fifty persons on board. Rarely do
I get to see them, but when I do, they are seated, trance-
like, before the /fictif/ screens. Our degeneration is not
to be found in the realm of normal attitudes or ethics but
rather in a total relaxation and surrender of will. We have
become indifferent to everything. For us, nothing remains
exciting, nothing stimulating. Nothing evokes any response
in us. The work of a new /fictif/ artist takes precedence
over all else. They are preoccupied, you see, with
experiencing the latest creation as quickly as possible.



Thank you,
--
Don
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-27 00:51:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
that I have experience with the insidious traps some worlds create and
know to avoid them!
Post by Robert Carnegie
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
As the warm weather wanes, my dog walks migrate to city streets in order
to avoid mud. The nights grow long while a stillness reminiscent of
"The City" (Bradbury) descends upon my city.
It's a mere shadow of cryptoscopophilia to note the depressing
regularity with which TV images radiate outward from within darkened
house after darkened house. The TV typically occupies the most prominent
place in the house. And it's always powered "on."
_Perry Rhodan #1 Enterprise Stardust_
"What are those people over there doing?" inquired
Rhodan. The strange music had changed once more and now
resembled an urgent whispering.
Khrest turned his head painfully. "They are engaged in
the usual simulator game. It has contributed much to the
collapse of will and spirit among my people. Billions of
Arkonides stand vigil by those screens daily while games
are created by different masters of the medium. Highly
complex. It is the audio-visual representation of elements
in the subjective psyche. My people would waste their lives
in this fashion. The situation in gradually worsening. For
example, there are only fifty persons on board. Rarely do
I get to see them, but when I do, they are seated, trance-
like, before the /fictif/ screens. Our degeneration is not
to be found in the realm of normal attitudes or ethics but
rather in a total relaxation and surrender of will. We have
become indifferent to everything. For us, nothing remains
exciting, nothing stimulating. Nothing evokes any response
in us. The work of a new /fictif/ artist takes precedence
over all else. They are preoccupied, you see, with
experiencing the latest creation as quickly as possible.

Thank you,
--
Don
There are people I don't like to see worrying about
racial decadence; in this case, Germany.

I don't remember if I checked last time it came up;
Wikipedia indicates that when Perry Rhodan started,
European countries didn't yet have color television,
which otherwise does seem to be the subject.
But it was foreseeable (did _Ralph 124C41+_ have it?)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-27 02:27:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by D B Davis
On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 11:04:44 PM UTC-4, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 22:25:47 UTC+1, Dimensional
<snip>
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about people
losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
that I have experience with the insidious traps some worlds create and
know to avoid them!
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
As the warm weather wanes, my dog walks migrate to city streets in order
to avoid mud. The nights grow long while a stillness reminiscent of
"The City" (Bradbury) descends upon my city.
It's a mere shadow of cryptoscopophilia to note the depressing
regularity with which TV images radiate outward from within darkened
house after darkened house. The TV typically occupies the most prominent
place in the house. And it's always powered "on."
_Perry Rhodan #1 Enterprise Stardust_
"What are those people over there doing?" inquired
Rhodan. The strange music had changed once more and now
resembled an urgent whispering.
Khrest turned his head painfully. "They are engaged in
the usual simulator game. It has contributed much to the
collapse of will and spirit among my people. Billions of
Arkonides stand vigil by those screens daily while games
are created by different masters of the medium. Highly
complex. It is the audio-visual representation of elements
in the subjective psyche. My people would waste their lives
in this fashion. The situation in gradually worsening. For
example, there are only fifty persons on board. Rarely do
I get to see them, but when I do, they are seated, trance-
like, before the /fictif/ screens. Our degeneration is not
to be found in the realm of normal attitudes or ethics but
rather in a total relaxation and surrender of will. We have
become indifferent to everything. For us, nothing remains
exciting, nothing stimulating. Nothing evokes any response
in us. The work of a new /fictif/ artist takes precedence
over all else. They are preoccupied, you see, with
experiencing the latest creation as quickly as possible.
✍
Thank you,
--
Don
There are people I don't like to see worrying about
racial decadence; in this case, Germany.
I don't remember if I checked last time it came up;
Wikipedia indicates that when Perry Rhodan started,
European countries didn't yet have color television,
which otherwise does seem to be the subject.
But it was foreseeable (did _Ralph 124C41+_ have it?)
With very little change, it could be facebook and/or cellphones.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
D B Davis
2018-09-27 02:55:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by D B Davis
_Perry Rhodan #1 Enterprise Stardust_
"What are those people over there doing?" inquired
Rhodan. The strange music had changed once more and now
resembled an urgent whispering.
Khrest turned his head painfully. "They are engaged in
the usual simulator game. It has contributed much to the
collapse of will and spirit among my people. Billions of
Arkonides stand vigil by those screens daily while games
are created by different masters of the medium. Highly
complex. It is the audio-visual representation of elements
in the subjective psyche. My people would waste their lives
in this fashion. The situation in gradually worsening. For
example, there are only fifty persons on board. Rarely do
I get to see them, but when I do, they are seated, trance-
like, before the /fictif/ screens. Our degeneration is not
to be found in the realm of normal attitudes or ethics but
rather in a total relaxation and surrender of will. We have
become indifferent to everything. For us, nothing remains
exciting, nothing stimulating. Nothing evokes any response
in us. The work of a new /fictif/ artist takes precedence
over all else. They are preoccupied, you see, with
experiencing the latest creation as quickly as possible.
There are people I don't like to see worrying about
racial decadence; in this case, Germany.
I don't remember if I checked last time it came up;
Wikipedia indicates that when Perry Rhodan started,
European countries didn't yet have color television,
which otherwise does seem to be the subject.
But it was foreseeable (did _Ralph 124C41+_ have it?)
With very little change, it could be facebook and/or cellphones.
Smartphones may best illustrate the phenomena. America's busiest travel
season will soon be upon us. It's the time of year when families reunite
for a Thanksgiving dinner. Everyone sits down together at the dinner
table ... and rubs their smartphone.



Thank you,
--
Don
Default User
2018-09-27 04:32:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 22:25:47 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Kevrob
That's an old trope, too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanPet
I know better than to click on a link to "that" site. :P
And everything is an old trope. They probably have a trope about
people losing days of time going from trope to trope there!
(And no, I'm not going looking for it.)
but you post as "Dimensional Traveler", which implies....
<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLibraryOfBabel>
As I'm no longer a productive member of society, it's my time that gets
wasted. So I have to be a bit more careful.


Brian
J. Clarke
2018-09-26 01:37:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 13:06:33 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
Good luck finding it but there was a story along those lines by Lee
Correy, "The Easy Way Out".
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-26 02:47:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 13:06:33 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.”
Herbivorous
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
What if they're here to do the same to us? :D
Good luck finding it but there was a story along those lines by Lee
Correy, "The Easy Way Out".
Already mentioned. Here's what ISFDB lists:

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?189750

It's entirely likely one of the Analog anthologies will be
findable on Amazon or Abebooks or something.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-09-25 20:52:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 12:15:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the
most? Why? David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not
dangerou
s.” Herbivorous
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large
land animal
s on
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-
video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant
herbivore dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be
giant sized is going to have spent considerable time defending
itself against predators. Its going to be an aggressive
badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I
love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of
their bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one
died a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs
every chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the
bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown
on learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable
of killing us (and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our
helpless infants play with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
I would be surprised if a technological civilization can progress
to the point where we could have contact with them (or they with
us) without domestication. And carnivores are far more useful at
primitive levels (our first domesticated species was dogs) than
herbivores.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-25 21:10:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
pt
Hmm, it appears that an Amazon Prime commercial I saw
runs a little longer in some versions.
(It's OK, nobody gets eaten!)



I suppose it's ... Japanese.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 22:35:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not
dangerous.” Herbivorous
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
ooh, I just love that one. This idiot
https://people.com/pets/man-taunts-bison-yellowstone-park-video/
should have
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Wolffan
got his ass trampled flat.
That was one of the dumber bits of the first Jurassic Park movie: the
scene where they get up close and personal with a gentle giant herbivore
dinosaur. Any herbivore dinosaur that gets to be giant sized is going to
have spent considerable time defending itself against predators. Its
going to be an aggressive badarse, almost by definition.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Another trope I hate is: only humans can do violence. I love the
Berserker stories, but the premise is mind-numbingly stupid.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
-Moriarty
And yet Earth in 2018 has a lot of domesticated
herbivores. Animals can be easily tamed to trust
and be fed by humans (I won't go into how this
works with herbivores, but it does); to undermine
my argument about reasonable diverse-formed alien
life, animals are dumb.
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
I remember when my son Tristan (now forty-something) was a
helpless infant and used to pull himself up to a sitting position
by grabbing hunks of one of our carnivores' long fur.
...and we think its 'cute'.
That's already been done, actually. Aliens scouting Earth to
find out if it's susceptible to being conquered, are frightened
away after watching a couple of kids in Alaska playing with their
cuddly friendly pet ...






...wolverine.

Lee Correy's "The Easy Way Out."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Mike Van Pelt
2018-09-25 23:35:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
That's already been done, actually. Aliens scouting Earth to
find out if it's susceptible to being conquered, are frightened
away after watching a couple of kids in Alaska playing with their
cuddly friendly pet ...
...wolverine.
Lee Correy's "The Easy Way Out."
Heh.

They'd already had a Close Encounter of the Worst Kind
with a grizzly bear.

Then observed a wolverine driving a grizzly away from
its kill. "It must have an unreasonably high ferocity
index."

*Then* saw the kids playing with their little pet.

At that point, they decided the better part of valor
was to put a few light years between themselves and Earth.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Quadibloc
2018-09-26 01:01:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
I remember reading a science-fiction short story in which:

Aliens land on Earth to study it, with a view to invasion and conquest.

They have a concept - some sort of ferociousness index - by which they rate
alien races to determine how much trouble they will be to conquer.

They capture an Earth creature for testing. It makes a mess of their flying
saucer - the description made me think it was a wolverine.

Then they release the creature... and some Earth children call it, their pet
that ran off into the woods, to their side. So it was probably their pet dog;
the species is not named.

Conclusion: human ferociousness is off the scale, avoid trying to conquer this
planet.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2018-09-26 01:05:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Trei
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
Aliens land on Earth to study it, with a view to invasion and conquest.
They have a concept - some sort of ferociousness index - by which they rate
alien races to determine how much trouble they will be to conquer.
They capture an Earth creature for testing. It makes a mess of their flying
saucer - the description made me think it was a wolverine.
Then they release the creature... and some Earth children call it, their pet
that ran off into the woods, to their side. So it was probably their pet dog;
the species is not named.
Conclusion: human ferociousness is off the scale, avoid trying to conquer this
planet.
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The Easy Way
Out".

John Savard
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-26 02:48:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Trei
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
Aliens land on Earth to study it, with a view to invasion and conquest.
They have a concept - some sort of ferociousness index - by which they rate
alien races to determine how much trouble they will be to conquer.
They capture an Earth creature for testing. It makes a mess of their flying
saucer - the description made me think it was a wolverine.
Then they release the creature... and some Earth children call it, their pet
that ran off into the woods, to their side. So it was probably their pet dog;
the species is not named.
Conclusion: human ferociousness is off the scale, avoid trying to
conquer this
Post by Quadibloc
planet.
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The
Easy Way Out".
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was

grep wolverine *
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2018-09-26 15:22:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Trei
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
Aliens land on Earth to study it, with a view to invasion and conquest.
They have a concept - some sort of ferociousness index - by which they rate
alien races to determine how much trouble they will be to conquer.
They capture an Earth creature for testing. It makes a mess of their flying
saucer - the description made me think it was a wolverine.
Then they release the creature... and some Earth children call it, their pet
that ran off into the woods, to their side. So it was probably their pet dog;
the species is not named.
Conclusion: human ferociousness is off the scale, avoid trying to
conquer this
Post by Quadibloc
planet.
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The
Easy Way Out".
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was
grep wolverine *
Safer than "grip wolverine". (Hey. Its early morning for me and I just
woke up!)
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
David DeLaney
2018-09-28 10:58:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was
grep wolverine *
Whereas I just KNEW I wouldn't possibly be able to get Google to understand
what I was actually looking for.

Davde, ... yes, Google Images, I've already seen him nekkid, but thanks
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 14:27:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was
grep wolverine *
Whereas I just KNEW I wouldn't possibly be able to get Google to understand
what I was actually looking for.
Davde, ... yes, Google Images, I've already seen him nekkid, but thanks
Oh, you mean the comic/movie superhero. Though I assume GI would
also have shown you some pictures of the animal too.

As for me, my idea of a superhero is Aragorn.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
D B Davis
2018-09-28 15:01:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was
grep wolverine *
Whereas I just KNEW I wouldn't possibly be able to get Google to understand
what I was actually looking for.
Inet search engines became mostly useless to me years ago. They
typically make me click like a madman to get nowhere fast. It sort of
makes sense, given how clicks are monetized.
Both usenet and maillists work better for me. The two tend to
provide precise answers to those patient enough to wait.
"The Easy Way Out" is mentioned in rasw from time to time, so the
story's known to me. It's also known that _analog_ published it sometime
in the 1960s.
This time around 1967 seemed a most propitious year. So all twelve
_analog_s from 1967 were pulled down from the brand spanking new
handmade pine wood shelves with unfinished surfaces, sized to fit 5.5" X
7.5" _analog_ magazines, located in the fiction corner of my library.
(Another handmade shelve on the adjoining wall in the fiction corner is
sized to fit MMPBs and holds my Ace _Perry Rhodan_s and Robin Cooks.)
Each Table of Contents in all twelve magazines from 1967 was
eyeballed for a likely title. Alas, "The Easy Way Out" actually appears
in the April 1966 issue. After my abject failure to locate the story in
the 1967 issues it seemed best to patiently wait for Dorothy to provide
the title. :0)



Thank you,
--
Don
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 15:58:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I YASID'd the story years and years ago, and when somebody ID'd
it, I saved it to disk. All I had to do was
grep wolverine *
Whereas I just KNEW I wouldn't possibly be able to get Google to understand
what I was actually looking for.
Inet search engines became mostly useless to me years ago. They
typically make me click like a madman to get nowhere fast. It sort of
makes sense, given how clicks are monetized.
Both usenet and maillists work better for me. The two tend to
provide precise answers to those patient enough to wait.
"The Easy Way Out" is mentioned in rasw from time to time, so the
story's known to me. It's also known that _analog_ published it sometime
in the 1960s.
This time around 1967 seemed a most propitious year. So all twelve
_analog_s from 1967 were pulled down from the brand spanking new
handmade pine wood shelves with unfinished surfaces, sized to fit 5.5" X
7.5" _analog_ magazines, located in the fiction corner of my library.
(Another handmade shelve on the adjoining wall in the fiction corner is
sized to fit MMPBs and holds my Ace _Perry Rhodan_s and Robin Cooks.)
Each Table of Contents in all twelve magazines from 1967 was
eyeballed for a likely title. Alas, "The Easy Way Out" actually appears
in the April 1966 issue. After my abject failure to locate the story in
the 1967 issues it seemed best to patiently wait for Dorothy to provide
the title. :0)
Yes, that works.

Easier, in this instance, to go to ISFDB.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?189750
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
David DeLaney
2018-09-28 10:56:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The Easy
Way Out".
And mine!

Dave, ... I'm thinking alike with John. This worries me.
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 14:29:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Quadibloc
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The Easy
Way Out".
And mine!
Dave, ... I'm thinking alike with John. This worries me.
Grep is your friend.

I had to explain to my son-in-law last night the computer-language
origin of "any noun can be verbed," using grep as an example.
This took longer than I would've thought.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Scott Lurndal
2018-09-28 15:20:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Quadibloc
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The Easy
Way Out".
And mine!
Dave, ... I'm thinking alike with John. This worries me.
Grep is your friend.
I had to explain to my son-in-law last night the computer-language
origin of "any noun can be verbed," using grep as an example.
This took longer than I would've thought.
Isn't grep technically an acronym?
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 16:03:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Quadibloc
I see that Dorothy solved my YASID before I wrote it: Lee Correy's "The Easy
Way Out".
And mine!
Dave, ... I'm thinking alike with John. This worries me.
Grep is your friend.
I had to explain to my son-in-law last night the computer-language
origin of "any noun can be verbed," using grep as an example.
This took longer than I would've thought.
Isn't grep technically an acronym?
Yes, it is. Or an abbreviation, if you prefer. Stands for
"global regular expression print."

Remember that UNIX was developed for use on terminals (typically ADM3As
or slow printers) running over a 300-baud line. The shorter the
command, the better.

Anyway, it's the name of a program that searches for all examples
of a given regular expression and spits them all out. So,
although it refers to a process performed by a computer, which
might be considered a verb, in human language the name is a noun.
"I'm going to use grep, it's easier." But it's also a verb, as,
"I'm going to grep "wolverine."
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-26 01:03:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Trei
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
Aliens land on Earth to study it, with a view to invasion and conquest.
They have a concept - some sort of ferociousness index - by which they rate
alien races to determine how much trouble they will be to conquer.
They capture an Earth creature for testing. It makes a mess of their flying
saucer - the description made me think it was a wolverine.
Then they release the creature... and some Earth children call it, their pet
that ran off into the woods, to their side. So it was probably their pet dog;
the species is not named.
Your memory is slipping. Their pet *is* a wolverine. See
upthread.
Post by Quadibloc
Conclusion: human ferociousness is off the scale, avoid trying to conquer this
planet.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
David DeLaney
2018-09-28 10:53:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
ObSF: The one where an alien race comes by and observes the family on vacation
at their cabin, and one son has made 'friends' with a local animal; they figure
that these puny hu-mons must have a low Aggression Index and will be easy to
conquer. Then they see the 'pet' wolverine (badger?) face down a full-grown
bear, take an actual reading of ITS aggression index, realize that it was
DEFERRING to the hu-mons, and promptly hightail it the hell out of there...

Dave, "Sir! This planet has faced Galactus FOUR times in its immediate
planetary history... _and beaten him back_!" {sfx: they say you can't hear
brakes screeching in space. but they're wrong}
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 14:32:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I don't have a carnivore on my bed at present. The last one died
a few years ago. The upstairs carnivores come downstairs every
chance they get, but they just want to get *under* the bed.
If aliens ever arrive on Earth, their minds might well be blown on
learning that we take predators which are perfectly capable of killing us
(and sometimes do) into our homes, and let our helpless infants play
with them...
...and we think its 'cute'.
ObSF: The one where an alien race comes by and observes the family on vacation
at their cabin, and one son has made 'friends' with a local animal; they figure
that these puny hu-mons must have a low Aggression Index and will be easy to
conquer. Then they see the 'pet' wolverine (badger?)
Yes, wolverine. See upthread.

face down a full-grown
Post by David DeLaney
bear, take an actual reading of ITS aggression index, realize that it was
DEFERRING to the hu-mons, and promptly hightail it the hell out of there...
Dave, "Sir! This planet has faced Galactus FOUR times in its immediate
planetary history... _and beaten him back_!" {sfx: they say you can't hear
brakes screeching in space. but they're wrong}
Heh.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Greg Goss
2018-09-26 05:13:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
As opposed to the smaller, sharper carnivores that sleep up against
our faces.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dimensional Traveler
2018-09-26 15:23:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
As opposed to the smaller, sharper carnivores that sleep up against
our faces.
We didn't domesticate those, they just hang around with us for the rodents.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-26 16:33:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Greg Goss
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
But adult carnivores notice that they can be fed by
humans another way - we being made of meat. Then
it's a matter of who's bigger, you or them.
And yet far more people sleep with a carnivore on the foot of their
bed than with a herbivore.
As opposed to the smaller, sharper carnivores that sleep up against
our faces.
We didn't domesticate those, they just hang around with us for the rodents.
True. There's a picture on lolcats this morning

https://icanhas.cheezburger.com/lolcats

in which a cat remarks, "Little cats are big cats who got tired
of lying in trees and chasing gazelles, and decided it would be
easier to domesticate humans instead. We had to get smaller so
we wouldn't scare the humans."

On the other hand, I saw an illustration once in _Science_,
heading a book review, showing a sort of kraal with some animals
inside, some outside ... but the krall was shaped like a collar,
with a leash attached to it extending out of frame. Outside were
the lion and the tiger and the Cape Buffalo and other wild
animals. Inside were the domesticated animals, including the
dog, the horse, the goat, the sheep, the camel ... and the man.

The cat was walking along the top rim of the kraal, refusing to
be categorized.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Default User
2018-09-24 00:59:19 UTC
Reply
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Post by Wolffan
Also up there, usually in film/tv, is the Space Battles Are Fought At
Very Close Range Trope and its ally, Messerschmitts and Spitfires in
Space!, both of ‘em usually with lots of explod-o-rays.
I liked the combat Peter Hamilton used in the Night's Dawn series.
Ships carry a battery of "wasps" that are mostly-autonomous weapons
pods that are small, maneverable, and filled with various weapons. The
ships release these and stand off while the wasps fight it out.

There was a lot I liked about the setting for that triology. Too bad
Hamilton decided to tell a weird demonic possession story (at huge
length).


Brian
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-24 01:39:33 UTC
Reply
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Post by Wolffan
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Also up there, usually in film/tv, is the Space Battles Are Fought At Very
Close Range Trope and its ally, Messerschmitts and Spitfires in Space!, both
of em usually with lots of explod-o-rays. Explod-o-rays themselves are yet
another annoyance; they're usually supposed to be some kind of laser, but
you can't see visible light lasers in space, no air (duh!) and you can't
see ultraviolet or x-ray lasers, period; in air you can see the track where
the beam ionizes air molecules, but THERE'S NO AIR. And it's never been
I have to say that this doesn't bother me at all.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-23 23:33:14 UTC
Reply
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Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
“Our culture is post-scarcity. We have outgrown the need for primitive
concepts such as “money”.” There is no such thing as “post-scarcity”.
Personal services are never in unlimited supply, people’s desires expand
to match their supply and I want my own personal starship. Also
replicators violate conservation laws.
“Evolution has a predestined outcome and we have a moral obligation to
help reach it.” No, it doesn’t, and no we don’t. We are no more
obligated to “help” evolution than we are obligated to “help” gravity.
Nor are we constrained to avoid interfering in either of those things.
And no, we aren’t destined to become more and more intelligent until we
turn into balls of light.
“Alien intelligent life would look and think nothing like humanity” OK,
sure, pasting a few appliances on a human actor’s face or painting them
blue or green isn’t a realistic way of portraying an independently
evolved lifeform. But at the same time the general human body plan, an
upright bilaterally symmetrical biped with a head is actually really
likely for an advanced tool-user. Advanced tool use requires
manipulative members and locomotion. Efficient locomotion under gravity
requires limbs with bones or at least an exoskeleton. Placing your
ranged sensory organs and your pie-hole at the front of a horizontal
body makes so much sense that it would probably be extremely unlikely
for any other arrangement to evolve and means a head at the top when
they transition to an upright posture. And probably with a neck because
being able to turn your sensory organs is a huge advantage.
It’s the same thing with alien intelligent life thinking nothing like
humanity. Just defining them as “intelligent life” means they already
would have a lot in common in humanity. And being shaped by the same
basic survival needs that humanity is means that alien advanced tool
users would actually have a lot in common with the way we think.
Yes, there would be differences, in form and in thought. But when people
declare that that aliens would all be utterly bizarre in form and
incomprehensible in action…well that’s just overcompensation.
Huh.

When the machines take over and keep us as pets or slaves
or some kind of weird battery, at least scarcity won't be
a problem for us any more.

Helping evolution to occur seems to have been an idea
of Hitler's. Otherwise... if we're talking about us,
there's a lot to improve. Resistance is futile^W^W^W
Some of us would like to have been born with better
designed eyes that don't end up needing spectacles.
Also, Teflon teeth. True, they can be implanted -
would anyone recommend a skull-implanted false tooth?
I have space for one.

There's considerable diversity of appearance, behaviour,
and size just among mammals. Including the herbivores.
Birds generally are more constrained, flying ones anyway,
by the physical need for them to be possible to recreate
in origami. Then of course there's the octopus and
its rudimentary urban settlements of Octopolis and
Octlantis - of course the names in their own language
are pronounced using colour change and several tentacles...

Conventionally, at least if you don't bother a herbivore
then it won't bother you, although Jack Campbell's
"Lost Fleet" encounters aliens that don't obey this.
To a carnivore you're a larder on legs. There also may
be human sneering at people who don't get meat, dating
back from when you had to fight a mammoth, a sabertooth,
and then your tribal leader to get a share of the party
of the first part. Vegetables were for losers.
(Traditionally.)

Now who shall I insult next?
David Johnston
2018-09-24 01:10:47 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
“Our culture is post-scarcity. We have outgrown the need for primitive
concepts such as “money”.” There is no such thing as “post-scarcity”.
Personal services are never in unlimited supply, people’s desires expand
to match their supply and I want my own personal starship. Also
replicators violate conservation laws.
“Evolution has a predestined outcome and we have a moral obligation to
help reach it.” No, it doesn’t, and no we don’t. We are no more
obligated to “help” evolution than we are obligated to “help” gravity.
Nor are we constrained to avoid interfering in either of those things.
And no, we aren’t destined to become more and more intelligent until we
turn into balls of light.
“Alien intelligent life would look and think nothing like humanity” OK,
sure, pasting a few appliances on a human actor’s face or painting them
blue or green isn’t a realistic way of portraying an independently
evolved lifeform. But at the same time the general human body plan, an
upright bilaterally symmetrical biped with a head is actually really
likely for an advanced tool-user. Advanced tool use requires
manipulative members and locomotion. Efficient locomotion under gravity
requires limbs with bones or at least an exoskeleton. Placing your
ranged sensory organs and your pie-hole at the front of a horizontal
body makes so much sense that it would probably be extremely unlikely
for any other arrangement to evolve and means a head at the top when
they transition to an upright posture. And probably with a neck because
being able to turn your sensory organs is a huge advantage.
It’s the same thing with alien intelligent life thinking nothing like
humanity. Just defining them as “intelligent life” means they already
would have a lot in common in humanity. And being shaped by the same
basic survival needs that humanity is means that alien advanced tool
users would actually have a lot in common with the way we think.
Yes, there would be differences, in form and in thought. But when people
declare that that aliens would all be utterly bizarre in form and
incomprehensible in action…well that’s just overcompensation.
Huh.
When the machines take over and keep us as pets or slaves
or some kind of weird battery, at least scarcity won't be
a problem for us any more.
Helping evolution to occur seems to have been an idea
of Hitler's. Otherwise... if we're talking about us,
there's a lot to improve. Resistance is futile^W^W^W
Some of us would like to have been born with better
designed eyes that don't end up needing spectacles.
Also, Teflon teeth. True, they can be implanted -
would anyone recommend a skull-implanted false tooth?
I have space for one
There's considerable diversity of appearance, behaviour,
and size just among mammals. Including the herbivores.
Birds generally are more constrained, flying ones anyway,
by the physical need for them to be possible to recreate
in origami. Then of course there's the octopus and
its rudimentary urban settlements of Octopolis and
Octlantis - of course the names in their own language
are pronounced using colour change and several tentacles.
There's considerable diversity of appearance, behavior and size among
mammals because mammals pursue a wide variety of approaches to survival.
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.

..
Post by Robert Carnegie
Conventionally, at least if you don't bother a herbivore
then it won't bother you, although Jack Campbell's
"Lost Fleet" encounters aliens that don't obey this.
To a carnivore you're a larder on legs.
To an herbivore you're either a predator or competition for territory.

There also may
Post by Robert Carnegie
be human sneering at people who don't get meat, dating
back from when you had to fight a mammoth, a sabertooth,
and then your tribal leader to get a share of the party
of the first part. Vegetables were for losers.
(Traditionally.)
Now who shall I insult next?
Juho Julkunen
2018-09-24 11:36:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <po9dil$1n9t$***@gioia.aioe.org>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by David Johnston
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.
How do you know this?
--
Juho Julkunen
David Johnston
2018-09-24 15:13:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
says...
Post by David Johnston
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.
How do you know this?
Logic. You need manipulative members to be a sophisticated tool user
and you probably need to be motile. You need to have a large body to
support a big brain. You need a skeleton, endo or exo to make a large
body motile in gravity. Endo's better for a large body unless the
gravity is a lot lighter. The advantages of putting your sensory organs
and your piehole on the front top of your body are obvious. The
advantages of being able to turn your sensory organs are obvious. The
fewer limbs a large body has the easier it is to avoid starving to death
but you need enough to ensure that you remain motile and manipulative so
any less than four limbs and you're looking at awkward workarounds with
significant disadvantages. Three would require you to abandon bilateral
symmetry and on land the advantages of bilateral symmetry in terms of
locomotion are substantial. You could go the liquid medium route but
that substantially reduces the advantages of even being an advanced tool
user.

I'm not saying the humanoid body plan is unavoidable but I am saying
that expecting technological aliens to have to be totally bizarre is, as
I said, overcompensation.
David DeLaney
2018-09-28 11:13:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by David Johnston
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.
How do you know this?
Logic. You need manipulative members to be a sophisticated tool user
and you probably need to be motile.
Unless they're some other species' members. (... quiet, you.)
Post by David Johnston
You need to have a large body to support a big brain.
Unless you use several small bodies instead, or your thoughts are an emergent
property, or your species is down around the Planck scale, or you live on a
neutron star, or...

(And TOO big a brain comes with its own issues.)
Post by David Johnston
You need a skeleton, endo or exo to make a large body motile in gravity.
Or a way to extract hydrogen from the surroundings and hollows to store it in.

And I take it you're not counting "underwater" as "in gravity"?
Post by David Johnston
The advantages of putting your sensory organs
and your piehole on the front top of your body are obvious.
... Assuming you always move forward, and always are the same way up, anyways.
Post by David Johnston
The advantages of being able to turn your sensory organs are obvious.
Being able to have them process input from different angles. Which may not
involve turning them at all. (You probably have a pair that your brain does
this with, actually.)
Post by David Johnston
The fewer limbs a large body has the easier it is to avoid starving to death
unless you eat through them, or they're not on the same scale as your body
Post by David Johnston
but you need enough to ensure that you remain motile and manipulative so
any less than four limbs and you're looking at awkward workarounds with
significant disadvantages.
There's a snake on line one for you.
And a hoopsnake on line two.
No, I don't know how they lifted the receivers.
Post by David Johnston
Three would require you to abandon bilateral symmetry
unless you abandon "all limbs MUST be on one side or other of the symmetry
plane". That one's not even SF, that's just math.
Post by David Johnston
You could go the liquid medium route but that substantially reduces the
advantages of even being an advanced
mined, carved, sculpted, smelted, or otherwise non-organically grown
Post by David Johnston
tool user.
I'm not saying the humanoid body plan is unavoidable but I am saying
that expecting technological aliens to have to be totally bizarre is, as
I said, overcompensation.
I'm saying that your imagination seems to have several sets of blinders on.

Dave, for gosh sakes, one book I reread a lot has a perfectly good humanoid
sculpting herself into a _mathematical construct made out of statistics
about various kinds of life forms in the local area_. I don't think that
fits ANY of your criteria, and I am NOT going to argue with her (OR her
unicorn) that she can't have done it
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-28 14:35:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by David Johnston
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.
How do you know this?
Logic. You need manipulative members to be a sophisticated tool user
and you probably need to be motile.
Unless they're some other species' members. (... quiet, you.)
James White's Sector General series contains at least two species-
teams wherein the large heavy clumpfooted thinker has a small
delicate symbiont with extreme manipulative skills.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
David Johnston
2018-09-28 17:44:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by David Johnston
But just as flight constrains what will work and what won't work so
does being a big-brained social user of sophisticated tools. There
aren't that many approaches that work.
How do you know this?
Logic. You need manipulative members to be a sophisticated tool user
and you probably need to be motile.
Unless they're some other species' members. (... quiet, you.)
Post by David Johnston
You need to have a large body to support a big brain.
Unless you use several small bodies instead, or your thoughts are an emergent
property, or your species is down around the Planck scale, or you live on a
neutron star, or...
If you use several small bodies instead you need a biological real time
communications channel with the bandwidth to accommodate the full output
of a nearly human mind. An organic transmitter capable of doing
that...would not be a small body. As for the rest...you know those
things aren't real right?
Post by David DeLaney
(And TOO big a brain comes with its own issues.)
Post by David Johnston
You need a skeleton, endo or exo to make a large body motile in gravity.
Or a way to extract hydrogen from the surroundings and hollows to store it in.
And I take it you're not counting "underwater" as "in gravity"?
I am not. I address the issue of being in a liquid medium later.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
The advantages of putting your sensory organs
and your piehole on the front top of your body are obvious.
... Assuming you always move forward, and always are the same way up, anyways.
The disadvantages of being a pushmepullyou are also obvious.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
The advantages of being able to turn your sensory organs are obvious.
Being able to have them process input from different angles. Which may not
involve turning them at all. (You probably have a pair that your brain does
this with, actually.)
If you don't turn your head to try to figure out where sounds are coming
from you are missing a bet.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
The fewer limbs a large body has the easier it is to avoid starving to death
unless you eat through them, or they're not on the same scale as your body
You can't have your limbs and eat them too. (And yes there are metabolic
costs to regenerating your limbs) And if they aren't on the same scale
they aren't going to be a hell of a lot of use.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
but you need enough to ensure that you remain motile and manipulative so
any less than four limbs and you're looking at awkward workarounds with
significant disadvantages.
There's a snake on line one for you.
And a hoopsnake on line two.
No, I don't know how they lifted the receivers.
That you don't know how they lifted the receivers is part of the point.
And yes there are significant disadvantages to ophidian locomotion.
There are advantages as well like the ability to slip through narrow
apertures but they aren't terribly relevant to the tool-user strategy. I
wouldn't exclude the possibility of aliens with snake-like lower bodies
but I wouldn't consider them to be _likely_. It comes under the
category of "awkward workarounds".
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
Three would require you to abandon bilateral symmetry
unless you abandon "all limbs MUST be on one side or other of the symmetry
plane". That one's not even SF, that's just math.
Post by David Johnston
You could go the liquid medium route but that substantially reduces the
advantages of even being an advanced
mined, carved, sculpted, smelted, or otherwise non-organically grown
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by David Johnston
tool user.
I'm not saying the humanoid body plan is unavoidable but I am saying
that expecting technological aliens to have to be totally bizarre is, as
I said, overcompensation.
I'm saying that your imagination seems to have several sets of blinders on.
Yes it does when it comes to the issue of the claim that it is
_unrealistic_ to expect aliens to ever be roughly human-like in
conformation (to the same extent that bats are roughly bird-like in
conformation). Realism is a blinder on the imagination. It requires
one to consider what is impossible, what is impractical and what is
likely. Science fiction isn't obligated to be realistic. In fact
almost all of the best science fiction contains unrealistic elements.

But the idea that annoys me is not "the galaxy has many bizarre aliens
in it" but rather "there is something wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads". No. There is nothing wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-09-28 18:37:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:44:05 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
But the idea that annoys me is not "the galaxy has many bizarre aliens
in it" but rather "there is something wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads". No. There is nothing wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads.
I thought the position was "there is something wrong with ONLY having
bipedal aliens with heads".

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future"
- Niels Bohr
David Johnston
2018-09-28 18:57:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:44:05 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
But the idea that annoys me is not "the galaxy has many bizarre aliens
in it" but rather "there is something wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads". No. There is nothing wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads.
I thought the position was "there is something wrong with ONLY having
bipedal aliens with heads".
Nope. I regularly hear people opining that aliens would have to be
physically bizarre and mentally incomprehensible.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2018-09-28 19:13:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:57:53 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:44:05 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
But the idea that annoys me is not "the galaxy has many bizarre aliens
in it" but rather "there is something wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads". No. There is nothing wrong with having bipedal aliens
with heads.
I thought the position was "there is something wrong with ONLY having
bipedal aliens with heads".
Nope. I regularly hear people opining that aliens would have to be
physically bizarre and mentally incomprehensible.
That's as indefensible as saying they'll always be bipedal with heads.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"You could say that Apple charges for incremental upgrades while
Microsoft charges for excremental ones" -- Daniel James, uk.c.h
p***@hotmail.com
2018-09-24 00:19:19 UTC
Reply
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Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
This was nicely subverted in the novel _March Upcountry_ by David Weber and John Ringo, where Prince Roger MacClintock (fourth in line to the throne of
the Empire of Man, hated and distrusted by the rest of the royal family)
and his bodyguard marine company are marooned on the extrasolar planet
Marduk inhabited by big amphibians and even bigger reptiles. When they
first encounter triceratops size animals most of the humans are relieved
that the animals are herbivores, but Prince Roger has hunted the most
dangerous game on the varied planets of the empire and recognizes
the strop marks on trees as a sign that the animals are strongly
territorial.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
m***@sky.com
2018-09-24 04:05:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Hereditary aristocracies in technological societies. I don't think that it's an accident that it went away for all practical purposes as technology came in, and my Father was just old enough to remember the tail end of this in Northern Ireland and found it very irritating.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-24 04:12:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Hereditary aristocracies in technological societies. I don't think that
it's an accident that it went away for all practical purposes as
technology came in, and my Father was just old enough to remember the
tail end of this in Northern Ireland and found it very irritating.
How close did we come to alternating Bush/Clinton presidencies?
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-24 04:52:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Hereditary aristocracies in technological societies. I don't think that
it's an accident that it went away for all practical purposes as
technology came in, and my Father was just old enough to remember the
tail end of this in Northern Ireland and found it very irritating.
How close did we come to alternating Bush/Clinton presidencies?
Dunno, but Denmark had alternating Kings Christian and Frederick
for several centuries. They currently have a Queen, Margrethe
II.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
J. Clarke
2018-09-24 05:27:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Hereditary aristocracies in technological societies. I don't think that
it's an accident that it went away for all practical purposes as
technology came in, and my Father was just old enough to remember the
tail end of this in Northern Ireland and found it very irritating.
How close did we come to alternating Bush/Clinton presidencies?
Not very. The Democrats stabbed Hillary in the back the first time
and the second time she was damaged goods. I mean if a buffoon who
uses a dead cat for a toupee could beat her, she didn't have a chance.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-24 05:32:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by m***@sky.com
Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
Hereditary aristocracies in technological societies. I don't think that
it's an accident that it went away for all practical purposes as
technology came in, and my Father was just old enough to remember the
tail end of this in Northern Ireland and found it very irritating.
How close did we come to alternating Bush/Clinton presidencies?
Not very. The Democrats stabbed Hillary in the back the first time
and the second time she was damaged goods. I mean if a buffoon who
uses a dead cat for a toupee could beat her, she didn't have a chance.
Ah, but if it hadn't been Trump, she would have probably been running
against a Bush, and a win for him would have been even more of an
hereditary aristrocracy marker..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ninapenda Jibini
2018-09-24 06:25:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting goo
constantly. They must drink an awful lot of fluids to not die of
dehydration.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-24 06:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting goo
constantly. They must drink an awful lot of fluids to not die of
dehydration.
Sounds like me several weeks of the year. Maybe they just need some
claratin.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2018-09-24 09:14:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting goo
constantly. They must drink an awful lot of fluids to not die of
dehydration.
Sounds like me several weeks of the year. Maybe they just need some
claratin.
I think I heard that dolphins don't drink; they get
fluid from the bodies of their prey. So if these aliens
eat enough other cast members, it's problem solved.
Scott Lurndal
2018-09-24 13:36:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting goo
constantly.
Have you ever been around a human infant?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-09-24 16:21:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting
goo constantly.
Have you ever been around a human infant?
Have you ever seen a human infant survive without constant care?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Michael F. Stemper
2018-09-24 17:33:06 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting goo
constantly. They must drink an awful lot of fluids to not die of
dehydration.
I've only ever encountered that in Julian May's Galactic Milieu. There's
one galactic race that does constantly ooze. They absolutely *love*
humanity because we invented Kleenex.

In retrospect, they sound pretty dumb.
--
Michael F. Stemper
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-09-24 17:40:44 UTC
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Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
There's always at least one alien species that oozes disgusting
goo constantly. They must drink an awful lot of fluids to not
die of dehydration.
I've only ever encountered that in Julian May's Galactic Milieu.
There's one galactic race that does constantly ooze. They
absolutely *love* humanity because we invented Kleenex.
It's more common on TV (yeah, I'm looking at *you*, Star Trek), but
it's a common enough meme in books, too.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
In retrospect, they sound pretty dumb.
In retrospect, most aliens sound dumb because most aliens are
cardboard cutouts of humans, only with rubber foreheads.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Peter Trei
2018-09-24 17:10:32 UTC
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Post by David Johnston
Which unrealistic science fiction tropes annoy you the most? Why?
David Johnston
“That animal is herbivorous, therefore it is not dangerous.” Herbivorous
animals attack all the time. The most dangerous large land animals on
Earth (excluding humans) are herbivorous.
“Our culture is post-scarcity. We have outgrown the need for primitive
concepts such as “money”.” There is no such thing as “post-scarcity”.
Personal services are never in unlimited supply, people’s desires expand
to match their supply and I want my own personal starship. Also
replicators violate conservation laws.
“Evolution has a predestined outcome and we have a moral obligation to
help reach it.” No, it doesn’t, and no we don’t. We are no more
obligated to “help” evolution than we are obligated to “help” gravity.
Nor are we constrained to avoid interfering in either of those things.
And no, we aren’t destined to become more and more intelligent until we
turn into balls of light.
“Alien intelligent life would look and think nothing like humanity” OK,
sure, pasting a few appliances on a human actor’s face or painting them
blue or green isn’t a realistic way of portraying an independently
evolved lifeform. But at the same time the general human body plan, an
upright bilaterally symmetrical biped with a head is actually really
likely for an advanced tool-user. Advanced tool use requires
manipulative members and locomotion. Efficient locomotion under gravity
requires limbs with bones or at least an exoskeleton. Placing your
ranged sensory organs and your pie-hole at the front of a horizontal
body makes so much sense that it would probably be extremely unlikely
for any other arrangement to evolve and means a head at the top when
they transition to an upright posture. And probably with a neck because
being able to turn your sensory organs is a huge advantage.
It’s the same thing with alien intelligent life thinking nothing like
humanity. Just defining them as “intelligent life” means they already
would have a lot in common in humanity. And being shaped by the same
basic survival needs that humanity is means that alien advanced tool
users would actually have a lot in common with the way we think.
Yes, there would be differences, in form and in thought. But when people
declare that that aliens would all be utterly bizarre in form and
incomprehensible in action…well that’s just overcompensation.
1. Flatly ignoring speed of light delays.

In the recent Salvation series on CBS, there's one scene where controllers on
Earth are controlling a probe out at Jupiter. They do so in real-time, sending
commands and observing results on HDTV screens without any latency.

2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.

On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.

pt
Jack Bohn
2018-09-25 05:52:30 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in 1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
--
-Jack
David Johnston
2018-09-25 07:32:16 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in 1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
In Stark's War lack of low gravity experience cripples the new troops
sent out to suppress the protagonist and his mutinous troops.
Moriarty
2018-09-25 07:52:36 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in 1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a really big guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the fight was fought at Martian gravity, rendering the weight disadvantage less so. He was a native Martian too, an advantage the RBG didn't stop to consider.

-Moriarty
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 13:14:46 UTC
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Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon
Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth
have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact
that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in
1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of
them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a really big
guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the fight was fought at
Martian gravity, rendering the weight disadvantage less so. He was a
native Martian too, an advantage the RBG didn't stop to consider.
I would have listed those two advantages of his in the opposite
order.

I still have a complete set of Lucky Starrs on my shelf; haven't
read them in years. I really should get rid of them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Lynn McGuire
2018-09-25 21:07:25 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon
Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth
have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact
that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in
1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of
them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a really big
guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the fight was fought at
Martian gravity, rendering the weight disadvantage less so. He was a
native Martian too, an advantage the RBG didn't stop to consider.
I would have listed those two advantages of his in the opposite
order.
I still have a complete set of Lucky Starrs on my shelf; haven't
read them in years. I really should get rid of them.
Uh oh. So I haven't reread a book in a decade, I should dispose of it ?

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2018-09-25 22:55:24 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon
Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth
have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact
that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in
1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of
them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a really big
guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the fight was fought at
Martian gravity, rendering the weight disadvantage less so. He was a
native Martian too, an advantage the RBG didn't stop to consider.
I would have listed those two advantages of his in the opposite
order.
I still have a complete set of Lucky Starrs on my shelf; haven't
read them in years. I really should get rid of them.
Uh oh. So I haven't reread a book in a decade, I should dispose of it ?
Lynn
Given you can replace it for $0.05 in two days, why not? (*)

(*)Doasisaynotasido
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2018-09-25 22:39:59 UTC
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Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as if they were on
Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking _The Moon
Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from Earth
have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made worse by the fact
that they have the "high ground;" they don't know how to move quickly in
1/6 gravity, and going downhill the fact that the ground in front of
them is even lower means it takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a really big
guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the fight was fought at
Martian gravity, rendering the weight disadvantage less so. He was a
native Martian too, an advantage the RBG didn't stop to consider.
I would have listed those two advantages of his in the opposite
order.
I still have a complete set of Lucky Starrs on my shelf; haven't
read them in years. I really should get rid of them.
Uh oh. So I haven't reread a book in a decade, I should dispose of it ?
Up to you. I desperately need to get rid of about a cubic yard
of books that I have never read, Hal has never read, and never
will. A legacy from his late sister who ... I learned this when
I was packing them ... never got around to reading most of them
either. The original sales slips were tucked inside them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-09-25 21:30:36 UTC
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Post by Juho Julkunen
In article
On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 3:52:33 PM UTC+10, Jack Bohn
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by Peter Trei
2. Everywhere is exactly 1G.
On the Moon, on Mars, etc everyone walks around exactly as
if they were on Earth - because they are.
Any stories affected by different gravities? I'm thinking
_The Moon
Is a Harsh Mistress_ has one scene where the troops sent up from
Earth have difficulty in a low-ceilinged room, possibly made
worse by the fact that they have the "high ground;" they don't
know how to move quickly in 1/6 gravity, and going downhill the
fact that the ground in front of them is even lower means it
takes them even longer to get to traction.
One of Asimov's Lucky Starr juvies had a fist fight between a
really big guy and a really little guy. The RLG won because the
fight was fought at Martian gravity, rendering the weight
disadvantage less so. He was a native Martian too, an advantage
the RBG didn't stop to consider.
I would have listed those two advantages of his in the opposite
order.
Edgar Rice Burroughs certainly did.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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