Discussion:
[Because My Tears Are Delicious to You] The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
(too old to reply)
James Nicoll
2019-08-11 14:22:22 UTC
Permalink
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/as-dreamers
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Default User
2019-08-11 19:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts, just or unjust.


Brian
Dimensional Traveler
2019-08-11 19:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts, just or unjust.
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Default User
2019-08-11 19:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts, just or unjust.
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.


Brian
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-11 20:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
I have no idea of when/how the standard spelling of "that which
is deserved" was established. (Presumably some time after Caxton.)

But "desert," now spelled with one S, means "that which is
deserted." We nowadays assume that desert land is deserted
because it's too arid to support life, but consider that a
"desert island" is usually assumed to be overgrown with tropical
vegetation, complete with coconut trees.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-08-11 21:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I have no idea of when/how the standard spelling of "that which
is deserved" was established. (Presumably some time after Caxton.)
But "desert," now spelled with one S, means "that which is
deserted." We nowadays assume that desert land is deserted
because it's too arid to support life, but consider that a
"desert island" is usually assumed to be overgrown with tropical
vegetation, complete with coconut trees.
Isn't that because there is no source of fresh water (other than rain)?
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Default User
2019-08-11 21:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
I have no idea of when/how the standard spelling of "that which
is deserved" was established. (Presumably some time after Caxton.)
But "desert," now spelled with one S, means "that which is
deserted." We nowadays assume that desert land is deserted
because it's too arid to support life, but consider that a
"desert island" is usually assumed to be overgrown with tropical
vegetation, complete with coconut trees.
Indeed, archaic uses preserved through phrases can cause confusion. In the case you cite, at least the words are related. That's not the case with "just deserts" and "just desserts".


Brian
Joe Pfeiffer
2019-08-11 23:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts, just or unjust.
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
Kevrob
2019-08-11 23:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts, just or unjust.
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
As a children, "dessert" was explained to us as what we would
only deserve if we ate the earlier course(s), and otherwise
behaved ourselves at table.

Dessert and desert have differing etymologies, though.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/dessert

https://www.etymonline.com/word/desert

If Mom and/or Dad are aren't strict, the undeserving may
well enjoy dessert.

Let's not get into the psychological problems of using
"the pudding" to enforce compliance, and any connection
to eating disorders.

Cue "Pink Floyd".....

Kevin R
a.a #2310
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-12 00:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
As a children, "dessert" was explained to us as what we would
only deserve if we ate the earlier course(s), and otherwise
behaved ourselves at table.
Dessert and desert have differing etymologies, though.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dessert
https://www.etymonline.com/word/desert
If Mom and/or Dad are aren't strict, the undeserving may
well enjoy dessert.
Let's not get into the psychological problems of using
"the pudding" to enforce compliance, and any connection
to eating disorders.
"Pudding, Alice; Alice, Pudding."
Post by Default User
Cue "Pink Floyd".....
/whoosh
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-08-12 03:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Default User
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
As a children, "dessert" was explained to us as what we would
only deserve if we ate the earlier course(s), and otherwise
behaved ourselves at table.
Dessert and desert have differing etymologies, though.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dessert
https://www.etymonline.com/word/desert
If Mom and/or Dad are aren't strict, the undeserving may
well enjoy dessert.
Let's not get into the psychological problems of using
"the pudding" to enforce compliance, and any connection
to eating disorders.
"Pudding, Alice; Alice, Pudding."
Post by Default User
Cue "Pink Floyd".....
/whoosh

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Dorothy J Heydt
2019-08-12 00:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat” to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
Actually, I've always pronounced "just des[s]erts" as though it
were spelled with a z. Because "deserve" does the same.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Joe Pfeiffer
2019-08-12 01:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Default User
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
The Traveler in Black by John Brunner
Similarly, some editions add Compleat⬝ to the title.
It's interesting to consider the effect on future generations if
Walton had titled his work "The Complete Angler".
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Default User
Post by James Nicoll
watching people get their just desserts.
It's "just deserts", of course. Not that I'm opposed to desserts,
just or unjust.
Post by Default User
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The mnemonic I learned for that is that dessert is twice as sweet as
desert. And given the way I've always heard it said, desserts is correct.
"Desert" is an archaic word meaning "that which is deserved". The
Grammarist does say that "just desserts" is probably more common in
writing these days. I still consider it to be incorrect.
How should it be pronounced? I've always heard it pronounced as if it
were spelled "desserts" (accent on second syllable).
Actually, I've always pronounced "just des[s]erts" as though it
were spelled with a z. Because "deserve" does the same.
I've always heard them (and pronounced them) as if the s or ss were a z
(like you). But I pronounce dessert as dehZERT and desert as DEZurt.
Loading...