Discussion:
[Illimitable Dominion] The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
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j***@panix.com
2020-05-07 13:34:16 UTC
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The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
Jerry Brown
2020-05-07 13:50:50 UTC
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Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
It's "Crichton".
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
James Nicoll
2020-05-07 14:24:57 UTC
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Post by Jerry Brown
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
It's "Crichton".
CRAP. Thank you.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Carl Fink
2020-05-07 21:56:33 UTC
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Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
--
Carl Fink ***@finknetwork.com
https://reasonablyliterate.com https://nitpicking.com
If you want to make a point, somebody will take the point and stab you with it.
-Kenne Estes
Peter Trei
2020-05-08 03:29:10 UTC
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Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.

Pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-05-08 03:34:03 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
Pt
If he had done nothing else, I would remember him for his coining and
definition of Gell-Mann Amnesia.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-gell-mann-amnesia-effect-is-as-follows-you
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 03:57:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
At least, not if the Man in question is bone-stupid.

A treatise from a while back on computer security, subset not
being an idiot and not treating your programmers like junk.

---------------------------quote--------------------------------

JURASSIC PARK
A security analysis by Michel E. Kabay
Copyright 1993 Network World

IS YOUR SECURITY PROCESS A DINOSAUR?

The current hit movie JURASSIC PARK stars several holdovers
from 65 million years ago. It also shows errors in network
security that seem to be as old.

For those of you who have just returned from Neptune, JURASSIC
PARK is about a dinosaur theme park that displays live dinosaurs
created after scientist cracked extinct dinosaur DNA code
recovered from petrified mosquitos. The film has terrific live
action dinosaur replicas and some heart stopping scenes. It also
dramatizes awful network management and security. Unfortunately,
the policies are as realistic as the dinosaurs.

Consider a network security risk analysis for Jurassic Park.
The entire complex depends on computer controlled electric fences
and gates to keep a range of prehistoric critters from eacing the
tourists and staff. So at a simple level, if the network fails,
people turn into dinosaur food.

Jurassic Park's security network is controlled by an
ultramodern UNIX system, but its management structures date from
the Stone Age. There is only one person who maintains the
programs which control the security network. This breaks Kabay's
Law of Redundancy, which states, "No knowledge shall be the
property of only one member of the team." After all, if that
solitary guru were to leave, go on vacation, or get eaten by a
dinosaur, you'd be left without a safety net.

Jurassic Park's security system is controlled by computer
programs consisting of two million lines of proprietary code.
These critical programs are not properly documented. An
undocumented system is by definition a time bomb. In the movie,
this bomb is triggered by a vindictive programmer who is angry
because he feels overworked and underpaid.

One of the key principles of security is that people are the
most important component of any security system. Disgruntled and
dishonest employees cause far more damage to networks and
computer systems than hackers. The authoritarian owner of the
Park dismisses the programer's arguments and complaints as if
owning a bunch of dinosaurs gives him the privilege of treating
his employees rudely. He pays no attention to explicit
indications of discontent, including aggressive language,
resentful retorts, and sullen expressions. If the owner had
taken the time to listen to his employee's grievances and take
steps to address them, he could have prevented several dinosaur
meals.

Bad housekeeping is another sign of trouble. The console
where the disgruntled programmer works looks like a garbage dump;
it's covered in coffee cup fungus gardens, historically
significant chocolate bar wrappers, and a treasure trove of
recyclable soft drink cans. You'd think that a reasonable
manager would be alarmed by the number of empty calories per hour
being consumed by this critically important programmer. The poor
fellow is so overweight that his life expectancy would be short
even if he didn't become dinosaur fodder.

Ironically, the owner repeats, "No expenses spared" at several
points during the movie. It doesn't seem to occur to him that
with hundreds of millions of dollars spent on hardware and
software, not to mention the buildintgs and grounds and an entire
private island, modest raises for the staff would be trivial in
terms of operating expenses but significant for morale.

In the movie, the network programmer is bribed by competitors
to steal dinosaur embryos. He does so by setting off a logic
bomb that disrupts network operations completely. The network
outage causes surveillance and containment systems to fail,
stranding visitors in, well, uncomfortable situations. Even
though the plot is not exactly brilliant, I'd like to leave at
least something to surprise those who haven't seen the movie yet.

When the systems fail, for some reason all the electric locks
in the park's laboratory are instantly switched to the open
position. Why aren't they automatically locked instead?
Normally, when a security controller fails, the default should be
to keep security high, not eliminate it completely. Manual
overrides such as crash bars (the horizontal bars that open
latches on emergency exits) can provide emergency egress without
compromising security.

As all of this is happening, a tropical storm is bearing down
on the island. The contingency plan appears to consist of
sending almost everyone away to the mainland, leaving a pitifully
inadequate skeleton crew. The film suggests that the skeleton
crew is not in physical danger from the storm, so why send
essential personnel away? Contingency plans are supposed to
include redundancy at every level. Reducing the staff when more
are needed is incomprehensibl.

At one point, the systems are rebooted by turning the power
off to the entire island on which the park is located. This is
equivalent to turning the power off in your city because you had
an application failure on your PC. Talk about overkill: why
couldn't they just power off the computers themselves?

Where were the DPMRP (Dinosaur Prevention Mitigation and
Recovery Planning) consultants when the park was being designed?
Surely everybody should know by now that the only way to be ready
for dinosaurs, uh, disasters, is to think, plan, rehearse, refine
and update. Didn't anyone think about what would happen if the
critters got loose? Where are the failsafe systems? The
uninterruptible power supplies? The backup power generators?
Sounds like Stupidosaurians were in charge.

We may be far from cloning dinosaurs, but we are uncomfortably
close to managing security with all the grace of a Brontosaurus
trying to type.

I hope you see the film. And bring your boss.

Best wishes, Mich

Michel E. Kabay, Ph.D.
Director of Education
National Computer Security Association

The above text is Copyright (c) 1993 by Network World. All
rights reserved.

Permission is granted by the copyright holder and the author to
distribute this file electronically or otherwise as long as the
entire file is printed without modification.


--------------------So I did that.----------------------------------
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 05:06:38 UTC
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In article
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept
through microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It
had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not
meddle'.
At least, not if the Man in question is bone-stupid.
A treatise from a while back on computer security, subset not
being an idiot and not treating your programmers like junk.
---------------------------quote--------------------------------
JURASSIC PARK
A security analysis by Michel E. Kabay
Copyright 1993 Network World
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will be
taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.

Script writers, producers and directors all believe they do this on
purpose because the audience is too stupid to grasp anything else,
but the reality is that it's nearly impossible to write characters
smarter than the writer, and most script writers are *stupid*. They
*have* to be, in order to get into that line of work in the first
place. The only reason *any* of them are successful at all in life
is because Hollywood has to have *someone* who can spell their own
name well enough to sign the contract.

And why should the movies be any different than TV shows. Some of
the funniest shows on TV, if you know anything about computers, are
cop shows. I mean, yeah, I get why they'll reel off an IP address
with numbers outside the possible range, sure. It's stupid, but so
are the writers, and they can't really get past "IP addresses are
like phone numbers," and you *never* use a real phone number on a
TV show.

But the *only* time that any place of interest to the episode
doesn't have a security camera there, these days, is when the
subject comes up in the first act (and thus, cannot add anything to
the story except perhaps a red herring), and *all* cameras
*everywhere* are *always* accessible in realtime to the detectives
who probably can't even spell "warrant." And despite having a
resolution worse than a 1950s B&W television with a coat hanger for
an antenna (which is, by far, the most realistic aspect), it can
*always* be enhanced enough for "facial rec" to identify the perp,
with 100% accuracy (unless it's the first act - see above).

I'd pay real money to see a top rated TV show in which the
detectivce asks Skippy The Wonder Tech if he can enhance the
grainy, blurry, out of focus security video enough to identify the
perp, and Skippy replies, "Sure. Who do you *want* it to look
like?"
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Quadibloc
2020-05-10 18:31:53 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will be
taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand that the
audience can follow it while they are sitting in the theater watching the movie.

I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of things being the
way they are is that the bad guys in the movies don't give real-life criminals
ideas that would actually work.

John Savard
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-05-10 18:34:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will be
taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand that the
audience can follow it while they are sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of things being the
way they are is that the bad guys in the movies don't give real-life criminals
ideas that would actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-10 18:58:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will be
taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand that the
audience can follow it while they are sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of things being the
way they are is that the bad guys in the movies don't give real-life criminals
ideas that would actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>

"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-11 01:05:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, 10 May 2020 19:34:22 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In article
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:06:41 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a
room temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the
opening credits, because the entire story simply can't
happen, or will be taken care of by a routine, automated
system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to
understand that the audience can follow it while they are
sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing
this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of
things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would
actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>
"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
The movie, however, had fuckall to do with the actual events.
"Based on the title of a popular novel we haven't read."
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Alan Baker
2020-05-11 02:16:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, 10 May 2020 19:34:22 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In article
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:06:41 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a
room temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the
opening credits, because the entire story simply can't
happen, or will be taken care of by a routine, automated
system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to
understand that the audience can follow it while they are
sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing
this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of
things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would
actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>
"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
The movie, however, had fuckall to do with the actual events.
"Based on the title of a popular novel we haven't read."
Really?

Frank Abagnale disagrees:

'In the interview included in the 2003 edition of the book, Abagnale
claims about 80% of the movie is accurate (book “Catch Me If You Can”,
page 214). In his foreword to “Catch Me If You Can — The Complete
Screenplay” (page 8), he goes even further: “[...] 90% of the film is
accurate. [...] the movie really captures my essence of the story.”'

<http://www.spielberg-ocr.com/abagnale.html>

Now please.. ...carry right on being the world's expert about everything.

:-)
David Johnston
2020-05-11 03:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, 10 May 2020 19:34:22 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In article
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:06:41 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a
room temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the
opening credits, because the entire story simply can't
happen, or will be taken care of by a routine, automated
system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to
understand that the audience can follow it while they are
sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing
this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of
things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would
actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>
"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
The movie, however, had fuckall to do with the actual events.
"Based on the title of a popular novel we haven't read."
Really?
'In the interview included in the 2003 edition of the book, Abagnale
claims about 80% of the movie is accurate (book “Catch Me If You Can”,
page 214). In his foreword to “Catch Me If You Can — The Complete
Screenplay” (page 8), he goes even further: “[...] 90% of the film is
accurate. [...] the movie really captures my essence of the story.”'
<http://www.spielberg-ocr.com/abagnale.html>
Now please.. ...carry right on being the world's expert about everything.
:-)
Lord knows Frank Abagnale would never bend the truth.
Alan Baker
2020-05-12 01:23:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, 10 May 2020 19:34:22 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In article
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:06:41 PM UTC-6, Ninapenda
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a
room temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the
opening credits, because the entire story simply can't
happen, or will be taken care of by a routine, automated
system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to
understand that the audience can follow it while they are
sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of
things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would
actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>
"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
The movie, however, had fuckall to do with the actual events.
"Based on the title of a popular novel we haven't read."
Really?
'In the interview included in the 2003 edition of the book, Abagnale
claims about 80% of the movie is accurate (book “Catch Me If You Can”,
page 214). In his foreword to “Catch Me If You Can — The Complete
Screenplay” (page 8), he goes even further: “[...] 90% of the film is
accurate. [...] the movie really captures my essence of the story.”'
<http://www.spielberg-ocr.com/abagnale.html>
Now please.. ...carry right on being the world's expert about everything.
:-)
Lord knows Frank Abagnale would never bend the truth.
He might...

...but how does our oracle know what the true story is in order to
declare so confidently that it had "fuckall to do with actual events".
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-12 10:25:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by David Johnston
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
On Sunday, 10 May 2020 19:34:22 UTC+1, Ted Nolan <tednolan>
In article
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a
room temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the
opening credits, because the entire story simply can't
happen, or will be taken care of by a routine, automated
system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to
understand that the audience can follow it while they are
sitting in the theater watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing
this so that we could
have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good result of
things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would
actually work.
John Savard
If they worked, we wouldn't know about it...
Well...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_%28book%29>
"describes how he cashed $2.5 million worth of bad checks"
The movie, however, had fuckall to do with the actual events.
"Based on the title of a popular novel we haven't read."
Really?
'In the interview included in the 2003 edition of the book, Abagnale
claims about 80% of the movie is accurate (book “Catch Me If You Can”,
page 214). In his foreword to “Catch Me If You Can — The Complete
Screenplay” (page 8), he goes even further: “[...] 90% of the film is
accurate. [...] the movie really captures my essence of the story.”'
<http://www.spielberg-ocr.com/abagnale.html>
Now please.. ...carry right on being the world's expert about everything.
:-)
Lord knows Frank Abagnale would never bend the truth.
He might...
...but how does our oracle know what the true story is in order to
declare so confidently that it had "fuckall to do with actual events".
Of course he doesn't "know". He is merely trolling. He got you again.

Or, (b), he IS Frank Abagnale.

Or, both (a) and (b).
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-11 01:04:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will
be taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand
that the audience can follow it while they are sitting in the
theater watching the movie.
No, that's just what Hollywood believes. It's really easy enough
for the *writers* and *directors* to understand, and they are
idiots.
Post by Quadibloc
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this
so that we could have more intelligent movies and TV shows.
Such do exist. And sometimes do very well. But they're very hard to
make in Hollywood, due to the all pervasive arorgance of the idiots
in charge.
Post by Quadibloc
One
good result of things being the way they are is that the bad
guys in the movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that
would actually work.
Bad guys with overly complicated, unworkable plans (that, even if
they work, won't do what the bad guys want to do) are certainly
common enough. The only place you see realistic "too stupid to be
anything but a criminal" crimes is on police procedurals like Law &
Order (and only some of the time then).
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-11 02:10:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will
be taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand
that the audience can follow it while they are sitting in the
theater watching the movie.
No, that's just what Hollywood believes. It's really easy enough
for the *writers* and *directors* to understand, and they are
idiots.
Post by Quadibloc
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this
so that we could have more intelligent movies and TV shows.
Such do exist. And sometimes do very well. But they're very hard to
make in Hollywood, due to the all pervasive arorgance of the idiots
in charge.
Post by Quadibloc
One
good result of things being the way they are is that the bad
guys in the movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that
would actually work.
Bad guys with overly complicated, unworkable plans (that, even if
they work, won't do what the bad guys want to do) are certainly
common enough. The only place you see realistic "too stupid to be
anything but a criminal" crimes is on police procedurals like Law &
Order (and only some of the time then).
https://www.bozocriminal.com/
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Titus G
2020-05-11 04:07:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Most movies aimed at the masses, especially big budget ones,
consist of a story in which, if a single character has a room
temperature IQ or higher, the movie is over before the opening
credits, because the entire story simply can't happen, or will be
taken care of by a routine, automated system somewhere.
Yes. This is done so that the plot is easy enough to understand that
the audience can follow it while they are sitting in the theater
watching the movie.
I have not been able to come up with a better way of doing this so
that we could have more intelligent movies and TV shows. One good
result of things being the way they are is that the bad guys in the
movies don't give real-life criminals ideas that would actually
work.
One of the more intelligent TV shows I have seen was "The Wire" an
"American crime drama television series created and primarily written by
author and former police reporter David Simon." (Wikipedia).
Not only did it provide working examples of how to organise real-life
crime but also clearly showed the interaction of criminals with
bureaucracy. (It was also entertaining and full of suspense.)
Ninapenda Jibini
2020-05-08 04:44:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept
through microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It
had become apparent that his go to theme was 'There are things
in which Man should not meddle'.
That's pretty much his entire career, innit?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Paul S Person
2020-05-08 18:21:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.

But some of his novels make a really good movie.

And he did a good job directing /Coma/.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Scott Lurndal
2020-05-08 19:18:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had become apparent that his
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 20:20:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.

/e searches saved files for analogy

Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.

---------------------------------------------------------

From ***@attglobal.net Tue Feb 28 12:56:30 PST 2006

[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-08 20:40:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 21:24:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-08 22:30:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
Too many layers of Meta for your comfort? :)
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 22:47:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
Too many layers of Meta for your comfort? :)
No, but it sounds as though it would be bad elf-based fiction
rather than good elf-based fiction.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Dimensional Traveler
2020-05-09 01:44:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
Too many layers of Meta for your comfort? :)
No, but it sounds as though it would be bad elf-based fiction
rather than good elf-based fiction.
That's why it would be such a good game! :D
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-09 02:52:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
Too many layers of Meta for your comfort? :)
No, but it sounds as though it would be bad elf-based fiction
rather than good elf-based fiction.
That's why it would be such a good game! :D
For some, maybe.

I play The Lord of the Rings Online, and there's elves there, all
right, but (just as in the books, if you look at them carefully)
there's very little magic. Most of the important magic-users are
NPCs: Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond. The closest thing we
get to a magic-using PC is the Lore-master class, who is really
more of an applied physicist/chemist/zoologist. The first
skill an LM learns is Burning Embers, which consist of setting a
pine cone afire and throwing it at the mob; it does damage over
time.

The game has been running for thirteen years now, and the devs
have done their best to stick to the logic of the story. Once a
new character gets out of the starting instance (which serves
mostly to let the player learn to use the game engine), s/he
lands in one of the easy areas and it's late September, right
after Frodo and company have left the Shire. As you progress
into different regions, it gets later in the story.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2020-05-09 03:06:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
LoTR and related writings are a fakeout. "The Twilight Saga"
is _history!_ :)

ObSF: the "Dunedain Rangers" in Stirling's Emberverse books.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
I hope you're wrong.
"The Marching Dead."

Kevin R
David Duffy
2020-05-10 03:44:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
Unfortunately, I haven't read it, but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Ruyer
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Gnose_de_Princeton

Ruyer's _La Gnose de Princeton_ was a French bestseller, with a
conspiracy that included Samuel Butler, A. N. Whitehead, David Bohm, Richard
Feynman, Fred Hoyle and Arthur Koestler.
D B Davis
2020-05-10 04:51:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Duffy
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Peter Trei
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Oooo, I sense a new computer RPG based on that coming soon.
Unfortunately, I haven't read it, but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Ruyer
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Gnose_de_Princeton
Ruyer's _La Gnose de Princeton_ was a French bestseller, with a
conspiracy that included Samuel Butler, A. N. Whitehead, David Bohm, Richard
Feynman, Fred Hoyle and Arthur Koestler.
As an aside,

_The Nature of Time_ is the report of a meeting held at
Cornell University on the thirtieth and thirty-first of
May and the first of June, 1963. The meeting was convened
by Professor H. Bond and Professor T. Gold, and it was
to a large extent supported by a contract and grant from
the United States Air Force Office of Scientific Resarch
(No. AFOSR AF49 [638]-1527).

Among others, Fred Hoyle and Mr. X attended.

One participant, hereafter referred to as "Mr. X," was
against publication. To him the informality of the
conversation had been such an essential part of the
conference the he felt our promised privacy was being
violated.

On the facing page, handwriting in ink denotes:

<-"X" is Richard Feynman

Allow me to also note that _The Nature of Time_ uses correct punctuation
as promulgated by _The Associated Press Guide to Punctuation_.



OK, enough of preliminaries. My French is extremely rusty.
_La Gnose de Princeton_ supposedly uses a Borgés short story as a
scapegoat or something. Borgés ranks as one of my favorite Spanish
authors. My website hosts a translation of "Animales de los espejos" at

https://crcomp.net/arts/animalesdelosespejos/index.php

Not to be too snotty about it, but sometimes only my own translation
proves satisfactory to me. Anyhow, does anyone know the title of the
Borgés short story?



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Titus G
2020-05-10 05:21:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 10/05/20 4:51 pm, D B Davis wrote:
snip
OK, enough of preliminaries. My French is extremely rusty. _La Gnose
de Princeton_ supposedly uses a Borgés short story as a
In 1974, the French philosopher of science Raymond Ruyer (1902-1987)
published a book entitled The Gnosis of Princeton: Scientists in Search
of a Religion, which purported to present the esoteric ideas of an
influential but secretive group of scientists working at several
prestigious American universities during the 1960s and 1970s.1 The
premise of the book, however, was a deliberate ruse, a fiction. Ruyer
had invented the subterfuge of an imaginary group of gnostic thinkers
working at Princeton and elsewhere to present his own ideas and make
them accessible to a wider public, laying out a new perspective on
science and a new articulation of the relation between matter and mind.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337413691_Raymond_Ruyer_and_the_Metaphysics_of_Absolute_Forms
scapegoat or something. Borgés ranks as one of my favorite Spanish
authors. My website hosts a translation of "Animales de los espejos" at
https://crcomp.net/arts/animalesdelosespejos/index.php
Not to be too snotty about it, but sometimes only my own translation
proves satisfactory to me. Anyhow, does anyone know the title of the
Borgés short story?
No. I have only Labyrinths and don't remember it being there so the odds
that it is may not have changed much as I have not read it since last
century. I dislike sneaky magic realism and Borges is too deep for me to
understand without assistance (thank you www).
D B Davis
2020-05-10 13:50:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip
OK, enough of preliminaries. My French is extremely rusty. _La Gnose
de Princeton_ supposedly uses a Borgés short story as a
In 1974, the French philosopher of science Raymond Ruyer (1902-1987)
published a book entitled The Gnosis of Princeton: Scientists in Search
of a Religion, which purported to present the esoteric ideas of an
influential but secretive group of scientists working at several
prestigious American universities during the 1960s and 1970s.1 The
premise of the book, however, was a deliberate ruse, a fiction. Ruyer
had invented the subterfuge of an imaginary group of gnostic thinkers
working at Princeton and elsewhere to present his own ideas and make
them accessible to a wider public, laying out a new perspective on
science and a new articulation of the relation between matter and mind.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337413691_Raymond_Ruyer_and_the_Metaphysics_of_Absolute_Forms
scapegoat or something. Borgés ranks as one of my favorite Spanish
authors. My website hosts a translation of "Animales de los espejos" at
https://crcomp.net/arts/animalesdelosespejos/index.php
Not to be too snotty about it, but sometimes only my own translation
proves satisfactory to me. Anyhow, does anyone know the title of the
Borgés short story?
No. I have only Labyrinths and don't remember it being there so the odds
that it is may not have changed much as I have not read it since last
century. I dislike sneaky magic realism and Borges is too deep for me to
understand without assistance (thank you www).
Philosophy's over my head. But Borgés still suits my tastes. It must be
his "magic realism" that actually appeals to me, if that's the technical
name for it.



Thank you,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Titus G
2020-05-11 04:13:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
On 10/05/20 4:51 pm, D B Davis wrote: snip
OK, enough of preliminaries. My French is extremely rusty. _La
Gnose de Princeton_ supposedly uses a Borgés short story as a
In 1974, the French philosopher of science Raymond Ruyer
Scientists in Search of a Religion, which purported to present the
esoteric ideas of an influential but secretive group of scientists
working at several prestigious American universities during the
1960s and 1970s.1 The premise of the book, however, was a
deliberate ruse, a fiction. Ruyer had invented the subterfuge of an
imaginary group of gnostic thinkers working at Princeton and
elsewhere to present his own ideas and make them accessible to a
wider public, laying out a new perspective on science and a new
articulation of the relation between matter and mind.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337413691_Raymond_Ruyer_and_the_Metaphysics_of_Absolute_Forms
scapegoat or something. Borgés ranks as one of my favorite Spanish
Post by D B Davis
authors. My website hosts a translation of "Animales de los
espejos" at
https://crcomp.net/arts/animalesdelosespejos/index.php
Not to be too snotty about it, but sometimes only my own
translation proves satisfactory to me. Anyhow, does anyone know
the title of the Borgés short story?
No. I have only Labyrinths and don't remember it being there so the
odds that it is may not have changed much as I have not read it
since last century. I dislike sneaky magic realism and Borges is
too deep for me to understand without assistance (thank you www).
Philosophy's over my head. But Borgés still suits my tastes. It must
be his "magic realism" that actually appeals to me, if that's the
technical name for it.
Philosophy's over my head as well but Borges would just about have to be
the most speculative speculative fiction author ever if intellect and
philosophy were included as criteria. I did first year philosophy at
university for interest's sake but found it very dreary. At the time
there was developing discussion of internal assessment rather than just
our end of year examination and my only surviving memory of lectures was
that of an Englishman who praised the English system where you chased
the opposite sex and stayed drunk for two and a half years before six
months work to gain your degree. I was more interested in following that
attitude than in studying philosophy.
But there are plenty of Borges aficionados with websites.
Titus G
2020-05-11 08:37:45 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
It must
be his "magic realism" that actually appeals to me, if that's the
technical name for it.
Sorry but I think that the technical term is magical realism not magic
realism as I wrote in error in my prior post.
Don
2020-06-11 16:13:31 UTC
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Post by D B Davis
Post by D B Davis
On 10/05/20 4:51 pm, D B Davis wrote: snip
OK, enough of preliminaries. My French is extremely rusty. _La
Gnose de Princeton_ supposedly uses a Borgés short story as a
In 1974, the French philosopher of science Raymond Ruyer
Scientists in Search of a Religion, which purported to present the
esoteric ideas of an influential but secretive group of scientists
working at several prestigious American universities during the
1960s and 1970s.1 The premise of the book, however, was a
deliberate ruse, a fiction. Ruyer had invented the subterfuge of an
imaginary group of gnostic thinkers working at Princeton and
elsewhere to present his own ideas and make them accessible to a
wider public, laying out a new perspective on science and a new
articulation of the relation between matter and mind.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337413691_Raymond_Ruyer_and_the_Metaphysics_of_Absolute_Forms
scapegoat or something. Borgés ranks as one of my favorite Spanish
Post by D B Davis
authors. My website hosts a translation of "Animales de los
espejos" at
https://crcomp.net/arts/animalesdelosespejos/index.php
Not to be too snotty about it, but sometimes only my own
translation proves satisfactory to me. Anyhow, does anyone know
the title of the Borgés short story?
No. I have only Labyrinths and don't remember it being there so the
odds that it is may not have changed much as I have not read it
since last century. I dislike sneaky magic realism and Borges is
too deep for me to understand without assistance (thank you www).
Philosophy's over my head. But Borgés still suits my tastes. It must
be his "magic realism" that actually appeals to me, if that's the
technical name for it.
Sorry but I think that the technical term is magical realism not magic
realism as I wrote in error in my prior post.
"Magic realism" [1] is used by some people in reference to visual art.
One website argues that Dali's "The Angelus of Gala" [2] incorporates
magic realism [4]. Although it erroneously identifies "Angelus" as
"Portrait of Gala" [4] both works use magic realism, if you ask me.

"The Hallucinogenic Toreador" [5] is my favorite Dali; a poster of it
hangs in my bedroom. The spheres shown on a Morrow Perry Rhodan cover
[6] remind me of the pattern of small multi-colored circles painted
lower mid-line left in the Dali.

[1] http://www.monograffi.com/magic.htm
[2] https://www.salvador-dali.org/en/artwork/catalogue-raisonne-paintings/1930-1939/399/the-angelus-of-gala
[3] http://tendreams.org/magic4.htm
[4] https://www.salvador-dali.org/en/artwork/catalogue-raisonne-paintings/1933/310/portrait-of-gala
[5] https://www.salvador-dali.org/en/artwork/catalogue-raisonne-paintings/1970/822/the-hallucinogenic-toreador
[6] Loading Image...

Danke,
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``.
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Peter Trei
2020-05-08 23:00:18 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
Its been well established that the whole Priory of Sion story is a hoax,
concocted in post-war France. Baigent & Leigh (the authors of HBHG) claim
to have been taken in. I first became aware of the story when it was on BBC's
'Chronicle' back in the 70s, along with references in Robert Anton Wilson's
work at that time. I later read HBHG, with great skepticism; I knew too much
of the background material.

After TDC came out, B&L sued Brown for plagiarism. They lost, but not
because Brown showed his work was original; that would be difficult, seeing
as one of the characters in the book is named Baigent. They lost because they
claimed in HBHG to be reporting actual historical events, not making things
up. Writing a book citing "actual history" isn't plagiarism.

As I've said before, when I first read TDC, I wasn't impressed by the 'history'.
For me, it was like riding the Haunted Mansion at Disney with all the house
lights on - I could see every jump scare and surprise revelation coming in a
predictable way. So I wasn't distracted from noticing the crappy research,
plotting, and writing.

I've never picked up another DB book.

pt
Paul S Person
2020-05-09 17:46:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
That sounds ... wierd.

Then again, /Foucault's Pendulum/ (by Umberto Eco) does involve the
dangers of ... well, the summary here is actually pretty good:
https://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X

The point I got from it was that it doesn't matter whether what you
believe is true or not -- it can have real-world consequences either
way.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-09 18:34:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
That sounds ... wierd.
Then again, /Foucault's Pendulum/ (by Umberto Eco) does involve the
https://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X
The point I got from it was that it doesn't matter whether what you
believe is true or not -- it can have real-world consequences either
way.
Yes, but believing in dragons won't get you roasted by a giant, fire-breathing lizard

Similarly looking for the holy grail is unlikely to get you interacting with a church group protecting Jesus' descendents
Paul S Person
2020-05-10 16:22:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 May 2020 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Carl Fink
Crichton was a qualified medical doctor, but it seems he slept through
microbiology and never took a modern physics class.
I gave up on Crichton after the first Jurassic Park novel. It had
become apparent that his
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Peter Trei
go to theme was 'There are things in which Man should not meddle'.
I gave up with the really-smart ape novel. His "tech" was utter
nonsense, even then.
You want bad tech, try Dan Brown's crypto novel.
No thanks.
/e searches saved files for analogy
Here we are, with most of the headers snipped.
---------------------------------------------------------
[On whether _The DaVinci Code_ had plagiarized _Holy Blood, Holy
Grail_]
Post by Peter Trei
My point is that Brown relies on the same historic fictions about
the same historic personages that proceeded from the syphilitic
brains of the HBHG gang. It is as though someone to write a novel
in which Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love
affair, and John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast
him off, and then someone else were to write a novel in which a
modern private detective goes through the whole Maltese-Falcon bit
in search of a bit of paper stating that Abraham Lincoln and
Jefferson Davis had a homosexual love affair, and John Wilkes
Booth shot Lincoln because Davis had cast him off.
Anyway, it's not just Biblical material. The whole thing turns on
/demonstrably/ false ideas of medieval history, medieval literary
history, and modern history. (To begin with, there was never any
real-world Grail cult. You might as well posit a
"late-20th-century elf cult", and then go on to suggest that
Tolkien and all his imitators (not to mention D&D) are actually
writing a "code" obscuring the secret doctrines of a nest of
vampire worshippers.)
That sounds ... wierd.
Then again, /Foucault's Pendulum/ (by Umberto Eco) does involve the
https://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X
The point I got from it was that it doesn't matter whether what you
believe is true or not -- it can have real-world consequences either
way.
Yes, but believing in dragons won't get you roasted by a giant, fire-breathing lizard
Consider Quarrel in /Doctor No/.

Not real-life, but certainly possible.
Post by h***@gmail.com
Similarly looking for the holy grail is unlikely to get you interacting with a church group protecting Jesus' descendents
I don't see why not.

Nutters are everywhere.

I see no reason why nutters who are protecting those who they /believe
to be/ Jesus' descendants might not be involved in such a quest.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Ross Presser
2020-05-08 21:19:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
Interestingly, this showed on phys.org today:
"New 'planetary quarantine' report reviews risks of alien contamination of Earth"
https://phys.org/news/2020-05-planetary-quarantine-alien-contamination-earth.html
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-08 22:38:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Presser
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
"New 'planetary quarantine' report reviews risks of alien contamination of Earth"
https://phys.org/news/2020-05-planetary-quarantine-alien-contamination-earth.html
And vice versa: sterile cleaning of the space probe before it
leaves Earth is mentioned, as James quoted from _The Andromeda Strain_.

We've had space stuff come in already from probes - and a lot
comes in on its own of course - and I was just reading about another:
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/08/asteroid_ryugu_sun_heating/>

This is from an asteroid encounter some time ago from which
some new science has been produced in the meantime. And the
sample is meant to be landed on Earth in December, it says.
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-05-08 22:23:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Presser
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
"New 'planetary quarantine' report reviews risks of alien contamination of Earth"
https://phys.org/news/2020-05-planetary-quarantine-alien-contamination-earth.html
I remember, after Apollo 11 splashed down, the crew were kept in
quarantine for ... I forget how long, a couple of weeks? in case
of alien life-form contamination. There wasn't any.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-10 15:30:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
So, I didn't recognise "illimitable dominion", but I did Google
and this looks like a series on maybe "lockdown literature"?
James Nicoll
2020-05-10 15:52:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by j***@panix.com
The Andromeda Strain by Michael Chrichton
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-fall-down
So, I didn't recognise "illimitable dominion", but I did Google
and this looks like a series on maybe "lockdown literature"?
Pandemic fiction.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/post/illimitable-dominion
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
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