Discussion:
Heinlein 1966 & LBJ 1968
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a425couple
2020-01-20 17:24:28 UTC
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Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.

In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'

For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer
who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire.

LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."

Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind, that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
Peter Trei
2020-01-20 17:36:19 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.
In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'
For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer
who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire.
LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind, that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
They both echo statements by William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1800s, rejecting running for office.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement (1884)

"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected." Thirteen years prior, he had similarly asserted, "I hereby state, and mean all that I say, that I never have been and never will be a candidate for President; that if nominated by either party, I should peremptorily decline; and even if unanimously elected I should decline to serve."

Pt
Mike Van Pelt
2020-01-20 22:12:37 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
They both echo statements by William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1800s, rejecting running for office.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement (1884)
"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected."
Someone later had a variation: "If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will run for the border."
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Kevrob
2020-01-20 23:50:11 UTC
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Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Peter Trei
They both echo statements by William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1800s, rejecting running for office.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement (1884)
"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected."
Someone later had a variation: "If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will run for the border."
[quote]

In 1984, Representative Morris Udall of Arizona (whose son and nephew
represent Colorado and New Mexico, respectively, in the Senate) swore
off any intent to run again for president: "If nominated, I shall run
to Mexico. If elected, I shall fight extradition."

[/quote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/weekinreview/19powell.html

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-01-21 01:19:59 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
They both echo statements by William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1800s,
rejecting running for office.
Post by Peter Trei
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement (1884)
"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected."
That was U.S. Grant, after his first term.
Post by Peter Trei
Someone later had a variation: "If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will run for the border."
Which one?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Quadibloc
2020-01-22 17:05:49 UTC
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Post by Mike Van Pelt
Someone later had a variation: "If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will run for the border."
That seems to leave obvious room for improvement. Are you sure it wasn't:

If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will run - for the border.

John Savard
Kevrob
2020-01-22 17:15:13 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Someone later had a variation: "If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will run for the border."
If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will run - for the border.
I gave the group the original Udall quote:

Message-ID: <4597feb2-78da-4e04-bb87-***@googlegroups.com>

[quote]

In 1984, Representative Morris Udall of Arizona (whose son and nephew
represent Colorado and New Mexico, respectively, in the Senate) swore
off any intent to run again for president: "If nominated, I shall run
to Mexico. If elected, I shall fight extradition."

[/quote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/weekinreview/19powell.html

Kevin R
a425couple
2020-01-21 22:28:53 UTC
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Post by Peter Trei
Post by a425couple
Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.
In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'
For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer
who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire.
LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind, that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
They both echo statements by William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1800s, rejecting running for office.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement (1884)
"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected." Thirteen years prior, he had similarly asserted, "I hereby state, and mean all that I say, that I never have been and never will be a candidate for President; that if nominated by either party, I should peremptorily decline; and even if unanimously elected I should decline to serve."
Pt
Yes, thank you.
Of course, I should have remembered that. But I did not. Sorry.
Jack Bohn
2020-01-20 17:41:27 UTC
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There is a famous quote along the lines of, "If nominated, I will not run, if elected, I will not serve." (My more politically-minded brother once read me a variation: "If nominated, I will run -- to Mexico. If elected, I will fight -- extradition."

Googling the phrase finds it attributed to General William Tecumseh Sherman in the 1880s.
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
2020-01-20 17:47:56 UTC
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Wow! An echo of the days when a YASID would have three posts comparing time-stamps!
--
-Jack
Kevrob
2020-01-20 17:41:56 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.
In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'
For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer
who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire.
LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
https://web.archive.org/web/20131203055600/http://millercenter.org/scripps/archive/speeches/detail/3388
Post by a425couple
Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind, that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
Prof was probably echoing General Sherman.

https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/if_nominated_i_will_not_accept_and_if_elected_i_will_not_serve

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shermanesque_statement

One would not have to have read RAH to parallel Sherman.

Kevin R
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2020-01-20 17:45:34 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.
In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'
For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer
who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire.
LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind,  that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
Could you repeat the question?
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2020-01-21 02:49:41 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by a425couple
Heinlein wrote the book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
and my copy indicates a copyright of 1965, published 1966.
In my (?1987?) copy, on page 244,
'Prof looked shocked,, Sir, If nominated, I shall
repudiate it, if elected, I shall abdicate.'
For POTUS LBJ
on March 31, 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson appeared on national television.
His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of
political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil
Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and
Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on
the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the
system with big-government programs that trampled on individual
liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt
wheeler-dealer who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody
Vietnam quagmire.
LBJ announced, "Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
Is there much similarity?
Or was it only in my mind,  that there was a jump in memory from
the line in the book, to LBJ's announcement?
Could you repeat the question?
Okay, then fuck you.
Joseph Hurtgen
2020-02-02 02:52:11 UTC
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Peter Trei beat me to it with Sherman. I love the line so much that I incorporated it into my last novel Sherman:

https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
J. Clarke
2020-02-02 03:11:48 UTC
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On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Kevrob
2020-02-02 03:41:15 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Those would be the ones who walked to the Americas from Siberia,
back when there was a landbridge, maybe?

Looks like someone's spill chucker needs help.

Kevin R
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-02-02 04:11:57 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
Peter Trei beat me to it with Sherman. I love the line so much that I
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Those would be the ones who walked to the Americas from Siberia,
back when there was a landbridge, maybe?
Looks like someone's spill chucker needs help.
Unless they're Harry Turtledove.

Cf. _The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2020-02-02 18:05:53 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Those would be the ones who walked to the Americas from Siberia,
back when there was a landbridge, maybe?
Looks like someone's spill chucker needs help.
Nah.

Just a 20-something with a keyboard.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-02-02 21:39:38 UTC
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Post by Paul S Person
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
Peter Trei beat me to it with Sherman. I love the line so much that
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Those would be the ones who walked to the Americas from Siberia,
back when there was a landbridge, maybe?
Looks like someone's spill chucker needs help.
Nah.
Just a 20-something with a keyboard.
When I was a 20-something, I was damn good with a keyboard. (I
had taken a typing course as a sophomore in high school, and
because somebody had goofed, instead of "Typing for the
College-Bound," as they called it, I got into the typing for
potential secretariaes class, and the hows and whys got hammered
into my muscle memory.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Paul S Person
2020-02-03 17:55:50 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 18:52:11 -0800 (PST), Joseph Hurtgen
Post by Joseph Hurtgen
Peter Trei beat me to it with Sherman. I love the line so much that
https://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Novel-Joseph-Hurtgen-ebook/dp/B07XVKJ9TD
Please tell me that "Seminal Indians" is some kind of joke.
Those would be the ones who walked to the Americas from Siberia,
back when there was a landbridge, maybe?
Looks like someone's spill chucker needs help.
Nah.
Just a 20-something with a keyboard.
When I was a 20-something, I was damn good with a keyboard. (I
had taken a typing course as a sophomore in high school, and
because somebody had goofed, instead of "Typing for the
College-Bound," as they called it, I got into the typing for
potential secretariaes class, and the hows and whys got hammered
into my muscle memory.
So did I, although I don't think the distinction existed: typing was
only available as part of the Business Track. Although anybody could
take it. An uncle gave me an electric typewriter for graduation, and I
made /very/ good use of it in college and beyond.

Well, /if/ they could take it. It was, apparently, run like a typing
pool, which is to say, very harshly.

But that was then. This is now. Times change.

Let me guess: "Typing for the College-Bound" would have started out
with a nice, long historical and theoretical discussion of typing,
with actual experience (if any) crowded into the last two weeks.

Sometimes its possible to be /too/ intellectual.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-02-03 22:50:11 UTC
Reply
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Post by Paul S Person
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
When I was a 20-something, I was damn good with a keyboard. (I
had taken a typing course as a sophomore in high school, and
because somebody had goofed, instead of "Typing for the
College-Bound," as they called it, I got into the typing for
potential secretariaes class, and the hows and whys got hammered
into my muscle memory.
So did I, although I don't think the distinction existed: typing was
only available as part of the Business Track. Although anybody could
take it. An uncle gave me an electric typewriter for graduation, and I
made /very/ good use of it in college and beyond.
Well, /if/ they could take it. It was, apparently, run like a typing
pool, which is to say, very harshly.
Just so. The teacher did her best to emulate the kind of boss
you really don't want to have to talk to.
Post by Paul S Person
Let me guess: "Typing for the College-Bound" would have started out
with a nice, long historical and theoretical discussion of typing,
with actual experience (if any) crowded into the last two weeks.
No, but it did concentrate on the skills involved in typing term
papers. Speed, for instance, was not treated as a requirement.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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