Discussion:
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
Add Reply
Lynn McGuire
2019-06-08 19:21:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"

https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books

I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/

Lynn
a***@yahoo.com
2019-06-08 20:35:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I would add Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem
Robert Carnegie
2019-06-08 23:50:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
o***@gmail.com
2019-06-09 00:08:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
My POV is:

1. They are no challenge to write

2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-06-09 00:14:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
1. They are no challenge to write
2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
I doubt 1 whether 2 is true or not.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lynn McGuire
2019-06-09 03:53:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
1. They are no challenge to write
2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
I doubt 1 whether 2 is true or not.
Hi Ted,

Would you consider _Mutineer's Moon_ by David Weber to be post-apocalyptic ?

Thanks,
Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-06-09 03:58:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems>
?
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by o***@gmail.com
1. They are no challenge to write
2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
I doubt 1 whether 2 is true or not.
Hi Ted,
Would you consider _Mutineer's Moon_ by David Weber to be post-apocalyptic ?
Thanks,
Lynn
From what I recall, I would say not.

I think you have to know about the apocalypse for it to count. Maybe the
Empire had an apocalypse, but at the beginning of the book, nobody on
Earth even knew the Empire existed.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Woodward
2019-06-09 05:01:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-
dystopian-fiction-books
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
1. They are no challenge to write
2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
I doubt 1 whether 2 is true or not.
Hi Ted,
Would you consider _Mutineer's Moon_ by David Weber to be post-apocalyptic ?
I don't think so. However, the sequel, _The Armageddon Inheritance_,
certainly has post-Apolcalyptic (post as in many millennia) features.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
a***@yahoo.com
2019-06-10 14:03:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by o***@gmail.com
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
It's possible that some books on this subject are not
very different from others. Can you apply
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne–Thompson_classification_systems> ?
1. They are no challenge to write
2. They are all, pretty much, the same.
There is a reason I listed Amnesia Moon: There is not much like it...
Peter Trei
2019-06-09 04:18:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
This is a *much* better list than I anticipated when I read the thread title.

I'd add Blish's Black Easter/The Day After Judgement, which are literally
post-apocalyptic.

pt
Jack Bohn
2019-06-12 15:15:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books" 
  
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books 
Am I missing a distinction, or are they missing the trope namer, The Book of Revelation? The advice it gives on preparedness is different from these others. That brings in the Left Behind series... did they ever get to the part with scorpions as big as horses? I once had a book from way earlier in the century that had the disappearance of the elect in its contemporary time.
--
-Jack
Richard Hershberger
2019-06-12 16:00:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books" 
  
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books 
Am I missing a distinction, or are they missing the trope namer, The Book of Revelation? The advice it gives on preparedness is different from these others. That brings in the Left Behind series... did they ever get to the part with scorpions as big as horses? I once had a book from way earlier in the century that had the disappearance of the elect in its contemporary time.
--
-Jack
He specifies that these are fictional books. Do we know whether he believes the Revelation of St. John to be fiction?

Richard R. Hershberger
D B Davis
2019-06-14 19:07:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"?
??
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books?
Am I missing a distinction, or are they missing the trope namer, The Book
of Revelation? The advice it gives on preparedness is different from these
others. That brings in the Left Behind series... did they ever get to the
part with scorpions as big as horses? I once had a book from way earlier
in the century that had the disappearance of the elect in its contemporary
time.
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the
Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand because
it abounds in unfamiliar and extravagant symbolism, which
at best appears unusual to the modern reader. Symbolic
language, however, is one of the chief characteristics of
apocalyptic literature, of which this book is an outstanding
example. Such literature enjoyed wide popularity in both
Jewish and Christian circles from ca. 200 B.C. to A.D. 200.

This book contains an account of visions in symbolic and
allegorical language borrowed extensively from the Old
Testament, especially Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Daniel. Whether
or not these visions were real experiences of the author or
simply literary conventions employed by him is an open question.

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not
to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant
to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and
repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes;
yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6).
The author used these images to suggest Christ’s universal
(seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant
feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors,
metals, garments (Rev 1:13-16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1-8; 17:4; 19:8),
and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven
totality or perfection, twelve Israel’s tribes or the apostles,
one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in
the book (Rev 6:9-10; 18:1-19:4) is also to be understood
symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the
lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact
literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader
and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that
will be severely punished by God.

(excerpt)

http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch



Thank you,
--
Don
Jack Bohn
2019-06-16 15:38:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the
Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand
I've said The Apocalypse was written for those without enough imagination to read Luke 12:20 -- "God said unto him: Thou fool! This night thy soul shall be required of thee."
--
-Jack
D B Davis
2019-06-16 16:27:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by D B Davis
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the
Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand
I've said The Apocalypse was written for those without enough imagination
to read Luke 12:20 -- "God said unto him: Thou fool! This night thy soul
shall be required of thee."
Although rich fools certainly need all the Spiritual help they can get,
the Apocalypse was primarily written to cope with Christian persecution:

The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except
against the historical background that occasioned its writing.
Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was composed as
resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself
suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early
church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes
pagan Rome, the city on seven hills (Rev 17:9). The book is,
then, an exhortation and admonition to Christians of the first
century to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with
paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they
are to await patiently the fulfillment of God’s mighty promises.
The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a
mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope. It is
a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of Nazareth and
continues to unfold in the history of the individual Christian
who follows the way of the cross, even, if necessary, to a
martyr’s death.

(excerpt)

http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch




Thank you,
--
Don
Robert Carnegie
2019-06-16 19:42:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by D B Davis
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the
Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand
I've said The Apocalypse was written for those without enough imagination
to read Luke 12:20 -- "God said unto him: Thou fool! This night thy soul
shall be required of thee."
Although rich fools certainly need all the Spiritual help they can get,
The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except
against the historical background that occasioned its writing.
Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was composed as
resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself
suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early
church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes
pagan Rome, the city on seven hills (Rev 17:9). The book is,
then, an exhortation and admonition to Christians of the first
century to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with
paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they
are to await patiently the fulfillment of God’s mighty promises.
The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a
mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope. It is
a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of Nazareth and
continues to unfold in the history of the individual Christian
who follows the way of the cross, even, if necessary, to a
martyr’s death.
(excerpt)
http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch
That and Wikipedia don't seem to give much consideration
to the author being mentally ill. There are signs.
Ninapenda Jibini
2019-06-16 21:01:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by D B Davis
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by D B Davis
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of
the Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand
I've said The Apocalypse was written for those without enough
imaginati
on
Post by D B Davis
Post by Jack Bohn
to read Luke 12:20 -- "God said unto him: Thou fool! This
night thy sou
l
Post by D B Davis
Post by Jack Bohn
shall be required of thee."
Although rich fools certainly need all the Spiritual help they
can get, the Apocalypse was primarily written to cope with
The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood
except against the historical background that occasioned
its writing. Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was
composed as resistance literature to meet a crisis. The
book itself suggests that the crisis was ruthless
persecution of the early church by the Roman authorities;
the harlot Babylon symbolizes pagan Rome, the city on
seven hills (Rev 17:9). The book is, then, an exhortation
and admonition to Christians of the first century to stand
firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with paganism,
despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they
are to await patiently the fulfillment of God’s mighty
promi
ses.
Post by D B Davis
The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a
mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope.
It is a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of
Nazareth and continues to unfold in the history of the
individual Christian who follows the way of the cross,
even, if necessary, to a martyr’s death.
(excerpt)
http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch
That and Wikipedia don't seem to give much consideration
to the author being mentally ill. There are signs.
Which are about as credible as the signs that you are mentally ill.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
D B Davis
2019-06-17 00:24:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by D B Davis
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by D B Davis
The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the
Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand
I've said The Apocalypse was written for those without enough imagination
to read Luke 12:20 -- "God said unto him: Thou fool! This night thy soul
shall be required of thee."
Although rich fools certainly need all the Spiritual help they can get,
The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except
against the historical background that occasioned its writing.
Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was composed as
resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself
suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early
church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes
pagan Rome, the city on seven hills (Rev 17:9). The book is,
then, an exhortation and admonition to Christians of the first
century to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with
paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they
are to await patiently the fulfillment of God’s mighty promises.
The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a
mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope. It is
a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of Nazareth and
continues to unfold in the history of the individual Christian
who follows the way of the cross, even, if necessary, to a
martyr’s death.
(excerpt)
http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch
That and Wikipedia don't seem to give much consideration
to the author being mentally ill. There are signs.
John of Patmos' mental health is probably a red herring. It doesn't
seem to matter because Revelation continues to serve its purpose as
resistance literature unabated over millennia.
As an aside, it's plausible to me that cruel incarcerations of
political prisoners, such as John of Patmos, creates mental illness.
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.



Thank you,
--
Don
Juho Julkunen
2019-06-17 20:17:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.
Getting arrested thankfully did.
--
Juho Julkunen
Peter Trei
2019-06-17 21:10:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by D B Davis
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.
Getting arrested thankfully did.
Torture?

He was free to walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy at any time. He stayed
there voluntarily to avoid being tried for rape in Sweden.

Even if he had walked out, and was whisked of to the US for trial, the max
sentence he could have received for conspiracy was shorter than his time
in the Embassy. I don't know how long he'd have served if convicted in Sweden.

I have zero sympathy for this man.

pt
D B Davis
2019-06-17 22:48:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by D B Davis
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.
Getting arrested thankfully did.
Torture?
He was free to walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy at any time. He stayed
there voluntarily to avoid being tried for rape in Sweden.
Even if he had walked out, and was whisked of to the US for trial, the max
sentence he could have received for conspiracy was shorter than his time
in the Embassy. I don't know how long he'd have served if convicted in Sweden.
I have zero sympathy for this man.
... "Since 2010, when Wikileaks started publishing evidence
of war crimes and torture committed by US forces, we have
seen a sustained and concerted effort by several States
towards getting Mr. Assange extradited to the United States
for prosecution, raising serious concern over the
criminalization of investigative journalism in violation of
both the US Constitution and international human rights law,"
[Nils Melzer, UN Special Rapporteur on torture] spelled out.

Since then, he said that there has been a "relentless and
unrestrained campaign of public mobbing, intimidation and
defamation" against the defendant - not only in the US,
but also in the UK, Sweden and more recently, Ecuador -
that includes humiliating, debasing and threatening
statements in the press and online as well as by senior
political figures and magistrates involved in proceedings.

"In the course of the past nine years, Mr. Assange has
been exposed to persistent, progressively severe abuse
ranging from systematic judicial persecution and arbitrary
confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive
isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy,
and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and
humiliation, to open instigation of violence and even
repeated calls for his assassination", the UN expert asserted.

Cellblock meeting

On 9 May, the Special Rapporteur visited Mr. Assange with two
medical experts who specialize in examining victims of
ill-treatment. The team spoke to the prisoner and conducted
a thorough medical assessment.

"It was obvious that Mr. Assange's health has been seriously
affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment
he has been exposed to for many years," the expert said.
"Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr.
Assange showed all symptoms typical for prolonged exposure
to psychological torture, including extreme stress, chronic
anxiety and intense psychological trauma." ...

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581



Thank you,
--
Don
Peter Trei
2019-06-18 12:32:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by D B Davis
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.
Getting arrested thankfully did.
Torture?
He was free to walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy at any time. He stayed
there voluntarily to avoid being tried for rape in Sweden.
Even if he had walked out, and was whisked of to the US for trial, the max
sentence he could have received for conspiracy was shorter than his time
in the Embassy. I don't know how long he'd have served if convicted in Sweden.
I have zero sympathy for this man.
... "Since 2010, when Wikileaks started publishing evidence
of war crimes and torture committed by US forces, we have
seen a sustained and concerted effort by several States
towards getting Mr. Assange extradited to the United States
for prosecution, raising serious concern over the
criminalization of investigative journalism in violation of
both the US Constitution and international human rights law,"
[Nils Melzer, UN Special Rapporteur on torture] spelled out.
Since then, he said that there has been a "relentless and
unrestrained campaign of public mobbing, intimidation and
defamation" against the defendant - not only in the US,
but also in the UK, Sweden and more recently, Ecuador -
that includes humiliating, debasing and threatening
statements in the press and online as well as by senior
political figures and magistrates involved in proceedings.
"In the course of the past nine years, Mr. Assange has
been exposed to persistent, progressively severe abuse
ranging from systematic judicial persecution and arbitrary
confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive
isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy,
and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and
humiliation, to open instigation of violence and even
repeated calls for his assassination", the UN expert asserted.
Cellblock meeting
On 9 May, the Special Rapporteur visited Mr. Assange with two
medical experts who specialize in examining victims of
ill-treatment. The team spoke to the prisoner and conducted
a thorough medical assessment.
"It was obvious that Mr. Assange's health has been seriously
affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment
he has been exposed to for many years," the expert said.
"Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr.
Assange showed all symptoms typical for prolonged exposure
to psychological torture, including extreme stress, chronic
anxiety and intense psychological trauma." ...
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581
While the 'attack on independent journalism' claim has some validity (though
Assange's actions show him as effectively an agent of the Russian
propaganda machine), this article is hardly written from a neutral point of
view.

He was not a prisoner.
He was not in a cell.
He was not in solitary confinement.
He could have walked out of the building any time he chose to do so.

It also completely ignores the rape charges. Do you think he should get a pass
on those, because journalism?

Anything he suffered in the Ecuadorian embassy, he did of his own free will.

pt
D B Davis
2019-06-18 14:54:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581
While the 'attack on independent journalism' claim has some validity (though
Assange's actions show him as effectively an agent of the Russian
propaganda machine), this article is hardly written from a neutral point of
view.
He was not a prisoner.
He was not in a cell.
He was not in solitary confinement.
He could have walked out of the building any time he chose to do so.
It also completely ignores the rape charges. Do you think he should get a pass
on those, because journalism?
Anything he suffered in the Ecuadorian embassy, he did of his own free will.
The Spy Files Russia dump suggests that Assange isn't a Russian
propagandist.

"Mr Assange was about as 'free to leave' as a someone sitting on a
rubber boat in a shark pool." - Nils Melzer.

Anglo-America typically tries to at least follow the letter of the law
when it intends to mock the spirit of the law. In Assange's case, Anglo-
America had to bend the letter of the law a little too. Although Sweden
dropped its alleged sexual misconduct charges against Assange in 2017
when the statute of limitations expired, Anglo-America made an end run
around Swedish law and arranged to have the case reopened.

Anglo-America uses Assange's alleged sexual misconduct as a pretext to
whisk Assange to America where he'll be taken to task for the release of
Collateral Murder. America made a $4.2 billion bailout deal with the new
President of Ecuador in order to get its talons into Assange. America
also had to pledge that it wouldn't outright kill Assange, who faces up
to 175 years in prison for conspiring to leak classified documents under
the Espionage Act.



Thank you,
--
Don
Peter Trei
2019-06-18 15:33:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581
While the 'attack on independent journalism' claim has some validity (though
Assange's actions show him as effectively an agent of the Russian
propaganda machine), this article is hardly written from a neutral point of
view.
He was not a prisoner.
He was not in a cell.
He was not in solitary confinement.
He could have walked out of the building any time he chose to do so.
It also completely ignores the rape charges. Do you think he should get a pass
on those, because journalism?
Anything he suffered in the Ecuadorian embassy, he did of his own free will.
The Spy Files Russia dump suggests that Assange isn't a Russian
propagandist.
"Mr Assange was about as 'free to leave' as a someone sitting on a
rubber boat in a shark pool." - Nils Melzer.
Anglo-America typically tries to at least follow the letter of the law
when it intends to mock the spirit of the law. In Assange's case, Anglo-
America had to bend the letter of the law a little too. Although Sweden
dropped its alleged sexual misconduct charges against Assange in 2017
when the statute of limitations expired, Anglo-America made an end run
around Swedish law and arranged to have the case reopened.
Anglo-America uses Assange's alleged sexual misconduct as a pretext to
whisk Assange to America where he'll be taken to task for the release of
Collateral Murder. America made a $4.2 billion bailout deal with the new
President of Ecuador in order to get its talons into Assange. America
also had to pledge that it wouldn't outright kill Assange, who faces up
to 175 years in prison for conspiring to leak classified documents under
the Espionage Act.
The only charge against him at this time is 'conspiracy to hack', which
has a maximum 5 year sentence. Bringing other charges of violating US
laws against a non-US citizen who did nothing on US soil would be difficult.

pt
Juho Julkunen
2019-06-18 16:29:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581
While the 'attack on independent journalism' claim has some validity (though
Assange's actions show him as effectively an agent of the Russian
propaganda machine), this article is hardly written from a neutral point of
view.
He was not a prisoner.
He was not in a cell.
He was not in solitary confinement.
He could have walked out of the building any time he chose to do so.
It also completely ignores the rape charges. Do you think he should get a pass
on those, because journalism?
Anything he suffered in the Ecuadorian embassy, he did of his own free will.
The Spy Files Russia dump suggests that Assange isn't a Russian
propagandist.
Not very convincingly.
Post by D B Davis
"Mr Assange was about as 'free to leave' as a someone sitting on a
rubber boat in a shark pool." - Nils Melzer.
Nils Melzer appears to have genuine merits. I'm not sure why he felt
compelled to write bespoke apologia for Mr. Assange and call it an
impartial report. Then again, Mr. Assange still has a legion of adoring
fans and I legitimately don't understand why.
Post by D B Davis
Anglo-America typically tries to at least follow the letter of the law
when it intends to mock the spirit of the law. In Assange's case, Anglo-
America had to bend the letter of the law a little too. Although Sweden
dropped its alleged sexual misconduct charges against Assange in 2017
when the statute of limitations expired, Anglo-America made an end run
around Swedish law and arranged to have the case reopened.
Perhaps you should not rely on Mr. Assange's propaganda on the matter?
The statue of limitations has expired for three of the less serious
charges, but not the rape charge, not until 2020. The case was closed
as Mr. Assange had made himself unavailable, but it was duly reopened
after he ended his fugitive ways.
Post by D B Davis
Anglo-America uses Assange's alleged sexual misconduct as a pretext to
whisk Assange to America where he'll be taken to task for the release of
Why do you choose to believe Mr. Assange's conspiracy fantasy? That was
never anything but a blatant lie from a man running from a rape charge.

The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.

All they ever needed to do is charge Mr. Assange with a crime, and ask
UK to extradite him. They had not done so at the time Mr. Assange fled
to the Equadorian embassy to hide from the rape investigation. They
have decided to do so since, and issued a sealed indictment in 2018,
which was unsealed after Assange was arrested.
Post by D B Davis
Collateral Murder. America made a $4.2 billion bailout deal with the new
President of Ecuador in order to get its talons into Assange. America
also had to pledge that it wouldn't outright kill Assange, who faces up
to 175 years in prison for conspiring to leak classified documents under
the Espionage Act.
Ecuador had been getting increasingly fed up with their troublesome
house guest, and wanted to be rid of him.

Most European nations (including Sweden, incidentally) will not allow
extradition if there's a possibility of capital punishment.

The initial charge against him was conspiracy to commit computer
intrusion; he allegedly helped Chelsea Manning commit the crime for
which she was quite properly convicted.
--
Juho Julkunen
D B Davis
2019-06-18 17:17:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.



Thank you,
--
Don
Peter Trei
2019-06-18 17:51:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.
...or the asylum-granting nation revoking it, which what seems to have
happened. Assange had been a horrible 'entitled' guest, repeatedly violating
the conditions of his asylum.

pt
D B Davis
2019-06-18 19:10:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.
...or the asylum-granting nation revoking it, which what seems to have
happened. Assange had been a horrible 'entitled' guest, repeatedly violating
the conditions of his asylum.
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout. Moreno's
predecessor, former President Correa, called Moreno a traitor for
selling out Assange. In yet another mysterious cloak-and-dagger
maneuver, FaceBook censored Correa.



Thank you,
--
Don
Dimensional Traveler
2019-06-18 19:53:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.
...or the asylum-granting nation revoking it, which what seems to have
happened. Assange had been a horrible 'entitled' guest, repeatedly violating
the conditions of his asylum.
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout. Moreno's
predecessor, former President Correa, called Moreno a traitor for
selling out Assange. In yet another mysterious cloak-and-dagger
maneuver, FaceBook censored Correa.
You forgot to put your tinfoil hat on.
--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Peter Trei
2019-06-18 20:01:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by D B Davis
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.
...or the asylum-granting nation revoking it, which what seems to have
happened. Assange had been a horrible 'entitled' guest, repeatedly violating
the conditions of his asylum.
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout. Moreno's
predecessor, former President Correa, called Moreno a traitor for
selling out Assange. In yet another mysterious cloak-and-dagger
maneuver, FaceBook censored Correa.
You forgot to put your tinfoil hat on.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some quid pro quo, but the
hacking conspiracy charge is all that has been levied so far, if he ever
winds up in US hands.

Other charges would be much more difficult to use, with the Pentagon Papers
case settled on First Amendment grounds.

pt
D B Davis
2019-06-18 20:55:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Peter Trei <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Peter Trei
Other charges would be much more difficult to use, with the Pentagon Papers
case settled on First Amendment grounds.
Both sides are preparing for a battle royale in the American court
system. It's ever-so-slowly dawning on the dumbbells in mass media that
they share a stake in Assange's fate. Speaking of Ellsberg, he recently
weighed in on Assange. Care to guess who Ellsberg sides with?



Thank you,
--
Don
David Johnston
2019-06-18 20:02:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
<snip>
Post by Juho Julkunen
The United States don't need any pretext to get Mr. Assange on American
soil. Extraditions are not mysterious affairs requiring cloak-and-
dagger maneuvers between several states.
Be that as it may, prying someone who's been granted political asylum
out of an embassy is a mysterious affair that requires cloak-and-dagger
maneuvers between several states.
...or the asylum-granting nation revoking it, which what seems to have
happened. Assange had been a horrible 'entitled' guest, repeatedly violating
the conditions of his asylum.
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout. Moreno's
predecessor, former President Correa, called Moreno a traitor for
selling out Assange. In yet another mysterious cloak-and-dagger
maneuver, FaceBook censored Correa.
The guy published details of someone's bank account. That's not so
mysterious.
Leif Roar Moldskred
2019-06-19 04:55:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout.
What's mysterious about anything here? Assange's relationship with
Ecuador was based on a personal rapport with then president Correa.
So when the political winds in Ecuador changed and Correa was
ousted in favour of Moreno of course Assange relationship with
Ecuador soured -- not helped by WikiLeaks appearing to side with
Moreno's political opposition and Assange rocking the boat with
regards to Spain.

There's a pretty good writeup here:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/05/01/why-assange-and-ecuador-fell-out/

In short, you don't need a conspiracy or secret backroom deals to
explain why Moreno wanted to get rid of the problem of Assange.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred
D B Davis
2019-06-19 18:32:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by D B Davis
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout.
What's mysterious about anything here? Assange's relationship with
Ecuador was based on a personal rapport with then president Correa.
So when the political winds in Ecuador changed and Correa was
ousted in favour of Moreno of course Assange relationship with
Ecuador soured -- not helped by WikiLeaks appearing to side with
Moreno's political opposition and Assange rocking the boat with
regards to Spain.
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/05/01/why-assange-and-ecuador-fell-out/
In short, you don't need a conspiracy or secret backroom deals to
explain why Moreno wanted to get rid of the problem of Assange.
Assange Is Secretly Charged in U.S., Prosecutors Mistakenly Reveal

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has secretly filed criminal
charges against the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, a person
familiar with the case said, a drastic escalation of the
government’s yearslong battle with him and his anti-secrecy group.

Top Justice Department officials told prosecutors over the
summer that they could start drafting a complaint against Mr.
Assange, current and former law enforcement officials said.
The charges came to light late Thursday through an unrelated
court filing in which prosecutors inadvertently mentioned them.

...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/julian-assange-indictment-wikileaks.html


Thank you,
--
Don
Juho Julkunen
2019-06-19 19:01:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D B Davis
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by D B Davis
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout.
What's mysterious about anything here? Assange's relationship with
Ecuador was based on a personal rapport with then president Correa.
So when the political winds in Ecuador changed and Correa was
ousted in favour of Moreno of course Assange relationship with
Ecuador soured -- not helped by WikiLeaks appearing to side with
Moreno's political opposition and Assange rocking the boat with
regards to Spain.
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/05/01/why-assange-and-ecuador-fell-out/
In short, you don't need a conspiracy or secret backroom deals to
explain why Moreno wanted to get rid of the problem of Assange.
Assange Is Secretly Charged in U.S., Prosecutors Mistakenly Reveal
https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/sealed-indictment/
--
Juho Julkunen
D B Davis
2019-06-20 12:22:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by D B Davis
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by D B Davis
In a mysterious cloak-and-dagger maneuver newly elected Ecuadorian
President Moreno traded Assange for a $4.2 billion bailout.
What's mysterious about anything here? Assange's relationship with
Ecuador was based on a personal rapport with then president Correa.
So when the political winds in Ecuador changed and Correa was
ousted in favour of Moreno of course Assange relationship with
Ecuador soured -- not helped by WikiLeaks appearing to side with
Moreno's political opposition and Assange rocking the boat with
regards to Spain.
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/05/01/why-assange-and-ecuador-fell-out/
In short, you don't need a conspiracy or secret backroom deals to
explain why Moreno wanted to get rid of the problem of Assange.
Assange Is Secretly Charged in U.S., Prosecutors Mistakenly Reveal
https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/sealed-indictment/
Does a secret by any other name deceive as proudly?

Jb 34:22 There is no darkness so dense
that evildoers can hide in it.


The arrest of #JulianAssange is meant to send a message to all
Americans and journalists: be quiet, behave, toe the line. Or you
will pay the price.

- Tulsi Gabbard (@TulsiGabbard) April 11, 2019


Sanders, Warren, and Wyden Slam Assange Indictment, a Renegade
Use of the Espionage Act to Criminalize Journalism

"Let me be clear: it is a disturbing attack on the First
Amendment for the Trump administration to decide who is
or is not a reporter for the purposes of a criminal prosecution,"
Sanders wrote in a tweet Friday afternoon after The Intercept
contacted his office for comment. "Donald Trump must obey the
Constitution, which protects the publication of news about our
government."

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/24/julian-assange-extradition-espionage-congress/



Thank you,
--
Don
Robert Carnegie
2019-06-18 21:26:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
Post by D B Davis
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Juho Julkunen
Post by D B Davis
But it doesn't matter. Even if the sanctioned psychological torture
inflicted on Assange made him mentally ill it doesn't diminish his
words and deeds.
Getting arrested thankfully did.
Torture?
He was free to walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy at any time. He stayed
there voluntarily to avoid being tried for rape in Sweden.
Even if he had walked out, and was whisked of to the US for trial, the max
sentence he could have received for conspiracy was shorter than his time
in the Embassy. I don't know how long he'd have served if convicted in Sweden.
I have zero sympathy for this man.
... "Since 2010, when Wikileaks started publishing evidence
of war crimes and torture committed by US forces, we have
seen a sustained and concerted effort by several States
towards getting Mr. Assange extradited to the United States
for prosecution, raising serious concern over the
criminalization of investigative journalism in violation of
both the US Constitution and international human rights law,"
[Nils Melzer, UN Special Rapporteur on torture] spelled out.
Since then, he said that there has been a "relentless and
unrestrained campaign of public mobbing, intimidation and
defamation" against the defendant - not only in the US,
but also in the UK, Sweden and more recently, Ecuador -
that includes humiliating, debasing and threatening
statements in the press and online as well as by senior
political figures and magistrates involved in proceedings.
"In the course of the past nine years, Mr. Assange has
been exposed to persistent, progressively severe abuse
ranging from systematic judicial persecution and arbitrary
confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive
isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy,
and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and
humiliation, to open instigation of violence and even
repeated calls for his assassination", the UN expert asserted.
Cellblock meeting
On 9 May, the Special Rapporteur visited Mr. Assange with two
medical experts who specialize in examining victims of
ill-treatment. The team spoke to the prisoner and conducted
a thorough medical assessment.
"It was obvious that Mr. Assange's health has been seriously
affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment
he has been exposed to for many years," the expert said.
"Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr.
Assange showed all symptoms typical for prolonged exposure
to psychological torture, including extreme stress, chronic
anxiety and intense psychological trauma." ...
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039581
While the 'attack on independent journalism' claim has some validity (though
Assange's actions show him as effectively an agent of the Russian
propaganda machine), this article is hardly written from a neutral point of
view.
He was not a prisoner.
He was not in a cell.
He was not in solitary confinement.
He could have walked out of the building any time he chose to do so.
To freedom? As it turns out, no.
Post by Peter Trei
It also completely ignores the rape charges. Do you think he should get a pass
on those, because journalism?
No, but I think it's nuanced.
Post by Peter Trei
Anything he suffered in the Ecuadorian embassy, he did of his own free will.
Richard Hershberger
2019-06-12 15:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
I deeply appreciate how the list is simultaneously complete and incomplete, the latter because there are more books being written. Oh, and he only includes books he considers "good."

Richard R. Hershberger
Lynn McGuire
2019-06-12 18:52:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Complete List of Post-Apocalyptic, Prepper, and Dystopian Fiction Books"
https://www.prepperpress.com/complete-list-of-post-apocalyptic-prepper-and-dystopian-fiction-books
I have read 29 out of the 113 book list. And I have about 100 more
books for the list, half of which I have read such as the awesome
_Emergence_ by David Palmer.
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/194881806X/
Lynn
I deeply appreciate how the list is simultaneously complete and incomplete, the latter because there are more books being written. Oh, and he only includes books he considers "good."
Richard R. Hershberger
I liked that he started the list with an 1826 plague book by Mary
Shelley that I had never heard of.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/069222792X/

Lynn
Loading...