(ReacTor) Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech

[James Nicoll]

Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech

Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).

https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

I think that Sea Wasp's _Grand Central Arena_ would qualify here. It's a
big dumb object that sucks in space ships from various species (including
H. Sap) to a situation which leads to combat/dueling.

I don't know if its age is speculated on in the sequels, which I have not
yet read, but it gives the impression of being pretty darn old.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?34912>

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

I think that Sea Wasp's _Grand Central Arena_ would qualify here. It's a
big dumb object that sucks in space ships from various species (including
H. Sap) to a situation which leads to combat/dueling.
I don't know if its age is speculated on in the sequels, which I have not
yet read, but it gives the impression of being pretty darn old.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?34912>

It's not at all clear to me that it's "dumb".

[William Hyde]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager. Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair. Which leads me to wonder, just how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?

Fans bought since then have rarely lasted more than five years. I do
have a Honeywell which lasted eight and still could be fixed if I could
only open it up - or so I think.

William Hyde

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by William Hyde

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager. Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair. Which leads me to wonder, just how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?

A long, long time. But it has a lot to do with maintenance as well as
design.

Also... it depends on whether it's fair to replace wear components. The
clock at Salisbury Cathedral has been running since the 14th century but
I suspect they have replaced some bushings over the years.

Lubricants today are a lot better than they were in the 14th century, though,
so the rate of wear on the Salisbury clock is likely a lot lower than it
used to be.... but entropy will catch up with it if maintenance is not done.
--scott

[The Horny Goat]

Post by William Hyde
I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager. Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair. Which leads me to wonder, just how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?
Fans bought since then have rarely lasted more than five years. I do
have a Honeywell which lasted eight and still could be fixed if I could
only open it up - or so I think.

Good question though I have a 3-position pole lamp in my living room
that was used in my parents' home some 50+ years ago that hasn't
required any work other than changing light bulbs (we're now using the
newer mini-fluorescents rather than the old incandescents but nothing
else is changed). I have a 30+ year old pair of lamps in my bed room.

No doubt others here have older gear than that.

[Paul S Person]

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by William Hyde
I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager. Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair. Which leads me to wonder, just how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?
Fans bought since then have rarely lasted more than five years. I do
have a Honeywell which lasted eight and still could be fixed if I could
only open it up - or so I think.

Good question though I have a 3-position pole lamp in my living room
that was used in my parents' home some 50+ years ago that hasn't
required any work other than changing light bulbs (we're now using the
newer mini-fluorescents rather than the old incandescents but nothing
else is changed). I have a 30+ year old pair of lamps in my bed room.
No doubt others here have older gear than that.

I have a two-pole lamp that may be older than I am -- but only the
actual /lamp/ is original. The shade vanished on a move; the cord was
replaced because it wasn't long enough; the inline switch was replaced
a while back because the one I bought in the 80s died; and the sockets
that the bulbs screw into were replaced when I managed to break the
older ones.

So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

I would guess that my 1980 Corolla has more original parts than
most philosophers (or me).

[William Hyde]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

In the 1660s, the UK parliament passed an act requiring the navy to
build a certain number of ships of the line. These were duly built.

But the technology of wooden warships was advancing. These ships were
getting less viable in the line of battle, as French and Spanish ships
were getting significantly larger.

The natural thing to do would be to scrap these elderly ships and build
new ones, but their existence was required by an act of parliament, and
their scrapping would be illegal.

So the ships were "rebuilt". Disassembled to piles of wood, with as
much as possible of the same wood used to create a larger ship of the
same class (so a 60 gun ship from 1750 would be much larger than one
from 1670 despite having the same rating (though they stated to call
them 64s about that time)).

Some ship were subject to several rebuilds, so there was only a
homeopathic amount of the original timber remaining. But it was still
legally the same ship.

William Hyde

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

In the 1660s, the UK parliament passed an act requiring the navy to
build a certain number of ships of the line. These were duly built.
But the technology of wooden warships was advancing. These ships were
getting less viable in the line of battle, as French and Spanish ships
were getting significantly larger.
The natural thing to do would be to scrap these elderly ships and build
new ones, but their existence was required by an act of parliament, and
their scrapping would be illegal.
So the ships were "rebuilt". Disassembled to piles of wood, with as
much as possible of the same wood used to create a larger ship of the
same class (so a 60 gun ship from 1750 would be much larger than one
from 1670 despite having the same rating (though they stated to call
them 64s about that time)).
Some ship were subject to several rebuilds, so there was only a
homeopathic amount of the original timber remaining. But it was still
legally the same ship.
William Hyde

It's too bad there were no new Acts of Parliament after the 1660s, though
I can see the attraction.

[William Hyde]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by William Hyde

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

In the 1660s, the UK parliament passed an act requiring the navy to
build a certain number of ships of the line. These were duly built.
But the technology of wooden warships was advancing. These ships were
getting less viable in the line of battle, as French and Spanish ships
were getting significantly larger.
The natural thing to do would be to scrap these elderly ships and build
new ones, but their existence was required by an act of parliament, and
their scrapping would be illegal.
So the ships were "rebuilt". Disassembled to piles of wood, with as
much as possible of the same wood used to create a larger ship of the
same class (so a 60 gun ship from 1750 would be much larger than one
from 1670 despite having the same rating (though they stated to call
them 64s about that time)).
Some ship were subject to several rebuilds, so there was only a
homeopathic amount of the original timber remaining. But it was still
legally the same ship.
William Hyde

It's too bad there were no new Acts of Parliament after the 1660s, though
I can see the attraction.

The parliament of those days was more difficult to deal with than the
ones today, with regimented party discipline. Getting anything done
required political capital.

Who wants to be seen as voting for the weakening of the Navy? As one's
opponents would doubtless paint it. Better to let the Navy handle it,
even if the solution was not optimal.


Bubb Doddington, for example, was a man who controlled six seats in
parliament. An astonishing amount of time was spent trying to get his
support in close votes circa 1750. He wasn't malignant or greedy, mind
you, just unreliable. And there were many like him.

William Hyde

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

I've read that there was a medieval idea that all the material in
a human's body was replaced over 7 years, and that this is where
the notion that 21 should be the age of majority came from.

pt

[Paul S Person]

On Tue, 14 May 2024 22:46:26 -0400, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

I've read that there was a medieval idea that all the material in
a human's body was replaced over 7 years, and that this is where
the notion that 21 should be the age of majority came from.

Oddly enough, I have run into the assertion that every cell in the
body is replaced every 7 years. Perhaps it's simply an updated
version.

Not all replaced at once, of course. Your "over 7 years" captures that
quite well.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 14 May 2024 22:46:26 -0400, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

I've read that there was a medieval idea that all the material in
a human's body was replaced over 7 years, and that this is where
the notion that 21 should be the age of majority came from.

Oddly enough, I have run into the assertion that every cell in the
body is replaced every 7 years. Perhaps it's simply an updated
version.
Not all replaced at once, of course. Your "over 7 years" captures that
quite well.

There's a belief in an indestructible bone of
the human body. Specifically, this is mentioned
by Judaism and Islam - with or without being
official - but apparently not in Christianity.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz_%28bone%29>

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Robert Carnegie
There's a belief in an indestructible bone of
the human body. Specifically, this is mentioned
by Judaism and Islam - with or without being
official - but apparently not in Christianity.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz_%28bone%29>

Back in the seventies, a young man assured me that Evel Knievel had broken
every single bone in his body. "You know those three tiny bones in your
ear? He even broke those!" This would seem a reasonable counter-case.
--scott

[The Horny Goat]

On Tue, 14 May 2024 22:46:26 -0400, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Paul S Person
So, like the car in /The World's End/, it is the same in one sense,
and yet not in another since almost everything has been replaced.

Aka "Ship of Theseus". People have been philosophizing about this
for at least two millennia.

I've read that there was a medieval idea that all the material in
a human's body was replaced over 7 years, and that this is where
the notion that 21 should be the age of majority came from.

Really? I learned in middle school that for sons of the nobility that
7 was the age their military training started as a page boy, 14 as a
squire with knighthood at age 21 (where they were encouraged to marry
and produce heirs ASAP).

I know that the "honeymoon" started when a Roman soldier married and
was given a month after his marriage to impregnate his wife before
being recalled to active duty - and was considered "less than a man"
if he did not get a message from home 9 months after his return to his
unit announcing a child (which admittedly only half were male)

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by William Hyde
I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager. Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair. Which leads me to wonder, just how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?

Good question though I have a 3-position pole lamp in my living room
that was used in my parents' home some 50+ years ago that hasn't
required any work other than changing light bulbs (we're now using the
newer mini-fluorescents rather than the old incandescents but nothing
else is changed). I have a 30+ year old pair of lamps in my bed room.
No doubt others here have older gear than that.

I have the lamp of Theseus in my bedroom. I bought it at a rummage sale in
roughly 1977. Obviously, the bulb has been repeatedly replaced. In about
2010, the shade and its hoop frame parted ways, so I bought a new shade.
In about 2015, its base got to be kind of rickety, so I replaced that.

No idea how old it was when I bought it 47 years ago, but it still works!

[Tony Nance]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by William Hyde
I am currently being cooled by a fan which is several years older than
Voyager.  Admittedly not such advanced technology, but a mere household
item. And it is one of a pair.  Which leads me to wonder, just  how long
could simple machines work, if we actually built them with longevity in
mind?

Good question though I have a 3-position pole lamp in my living room
that was used in my parents' home some 50+ years ago that hasn't
required any work other than changing light bulbs (we're now using the
newer mini-fluorescents rather than the old incandescents but nothing
else is changed). I have a 30+ year old pair of lamps in my bed room.
No doubt others here have older gear than that.

I have the lamp of Theseus in my bedroom. I bought it at a rummage sale in
roughly 1977. Obviously, the bulb has been repeatedly replaced. In about
2010, the shade and its hoop frame parted ways, so I bought a new shade.
In about 2015, its base got to be kind of rickety, so I replaced that.
No idea how old it was when I bought it 47 years ago, but it still works!

Do you keep it next to your Grandfather's Axe?

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

And of course I read the excellent "Galactic Derelict" by Andre Norton.

And this list desperately needs:
1. the awesome "Mutineer's Moon" by David Weber
2. "Ancient Shores" by Jack McDevitt
3. The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey

Lynn

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

And of course I read the excellent "Galactic Derelict" by Andre Norton.
1. the awesome "Mutineer's Moon" by David Weber
2. "Ancient Shores" by Jack McDevitt
3. The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey
Lynn

Hmm.

"Against The Fall Of Night" by Clarke
"The Sentinel" by Clarke
_Empire Of The Atom_ by Van Vogt
_The Rebel of Rhada_ by Gilman
_The Star Conquerors_ & _Star Watchman_ by Bova
"Twilight" & "Night" by Campbell
"The Space At Tinsori Light" by Lee & Miller
_Tuf Voyaging_ by Martin
_The Tar-Aiym Krang_ by Foster
_Ringworld_ by Niven

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

And of course I read the excellent "Galactic Derelict" by Andre Norton.
1. the awesome "Mutineer's Moon" by David Weber
2. "Ancient Shores" by Jack McDevitt
3. The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey
Lynn

Hmm.
"Against The Fall Of Night" by Clarke
"The Sentinel" by Clarke
_Empire Of The Atom_ by Van Vogt
_The Rebel of Rhada_ by Gilman
_The Star Conquerors_ & _Star Watchman_ by Bova
"Twilight" & "Night" by Campbell
"The Space At Tinsori Light" by Lee & Miller
_Tuf Voyaging_ by Martin
_The Tar-Aiym Krang_ by Foster
_Ringworld_ by Niven

How could I forget "The Tar-Aiym Krang" ? It is one of my six star books.

Lynn

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

And of course I read the excellent "Galactic Derelict" by Andre Norton.
1. the awesome "Mutineer's Moon" by David Weber
2. "Ancient Shores" by Jack McDevitt
3. The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey

Agreed on all. Also Gateway by Fred Pohl.

The Feeling Of Power is only a short story but probably deserves an
honorable mention.
--scott

[Tony Nance]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring technological
marvels built them to last (for better or worse).
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

Oooooh - The Dragon Never Sleeps is one of my very favorite books. It's
been so long since I read it, I'm trying to decide if I want to risk
those fond memories by reading it again.

A few that quickly came to mind:
Diaspar, from Clarke’s A City and the Stars/Against the Fall of Night
Culture - Banks (including whole civilizations that Sublimed and left
stuff behind)
A Fire Upon the Deep - Vinge
Old Tech in the Liaden universe - Lee & Miller
Revelation Space universe; also Terminal World - Reynolds
The Expanse series - Corey
Humanx Commonwealth (Pip & Flinx) - Foster

Tony

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

Iain M. Banks' _Against a Dark Background_ is set in a lone solar
system in an intergalactic void. There's nowhere else to go.
Earlier civilizations rose and fell, and the planets are littered
with their artifacts. The novel's McGuffin is the last Lazy Gun,
a weapon with impossible physics and a dark sense of humor. IIRC,
among other things, the protagonist picks up an ancient high-tech
equivalent of a motorcycle.

In _Captain Future and the Space Emperor_, the villain has stumbled
over artifacts left by the ancient Jovians and uses those to walk
through walls; hit victims with a de-evolution-ator (or whatever
it was called) that has them transforming backwards through
evolutionary history, from hairy apes to reptiles; etc.

| Lanier demonstrates considerable faith in the durability of
| modern-day technology. The travelers need only hit an on-switch for
| pre-war machines to activate. Impressive, considering that the novel
| is set in the year 7476 AD.

I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

| Often SF authors imagine that working alien relics will turn out
| to be doomsday devices.

_Forbidden Planet_. Well, not intended as such.

Didn't the first three or four Pip & Flinx books already feature
two ancient doomsday machines?

The 1980s _Flash Gordon_ novels anonymously authored by David Hagberg
see humanity drawn into the fizzled-out war between the machine
remnants of two long gone civilizations. At some point, our
protagonists find the Ultimate Weapon. Twice, I think.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

Iain M. Banks' _Against a Dark Background_ is set in a lone solar
system in an intergalactic void. There's nowhere else to go.
Earlier civilizations rose and fell, and the planets are littered
with their artifacts. The novel's McGuffin is the last Lazy Gun,
a weapon with impossible physics and a dark sense of humor. IIRC,
among other things, the protagonist picks up an ancient high-tech
equivalent of a motorcycle.
In _Captain Future and the Space Emperor_, the villain has stumbled
over artifacts left by the ancient Jovians and uses those to walk
through walls; hit victims with a de-evolution-ator (or whatever
it was called) that has them transforming backwards through
evolutionary history, from hairy apes to reptiles; etc.
| Lanier demonstrates considerable faith in the durability of
| modern-day technology. The travelers need only hit an on-switch for
| pre-war machines to activate. Impressive, considering that the novel
| is set in the year 7476 AD.
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

In Woody Allen's 'Sleeper', the protagonists find a 200 year old
VW Bug in a cave. It starts at the first try.

In the film of LRH's "Battlefield Earth", a 1000 year old fighter
jet is ready to fly, and fully fueled. I don't know if its in the book,
I boycott Hubbard's works.

pt

[BCFD 36]

[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.

I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car. Would water have
somehow collected in the gas tank under the gasoline? Would the gas be
so "flat" that it would not run?

[more stuff deleted]

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by BCFD 36
[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.
I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car.

Well, I can vouch for 4 year old gas - we just started the
'74 450SL in the barn which hadn't been started since
March 2020 - all it took was a new battery and it purred
like a 70's kitten.

I've heard anecdotally that modern gas doesn't deterioriate
as quickly as it used to.

Post by BCFD 36
Would water have
somehow collected in the gas tank under the gasoline? Would the gas be
so "flat" that it would not run?

It likely depends on how full the tank is/was
and how much headspace there is to produce condensation
and whether it is vented.

[BCFD 36]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36
[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.
I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car.

Well, I can vouch for 4 year old gas - we just started the
'74 450SL in the barn which hadn't been started since
March 2020 - all it took was a new battery and it purred
like a 70's kitten.

Interesting. Was this a gasoline or diesel Mercedes? I think diesel
lasts longer.

Post by Scott Lurndal
I've heard anecdotally that modern gas doesn't deterioriate
as quickly as it used to.

This does not surprise me at all.

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36
Would water have
somehow collected in the gas tank under the gasoline? Would the gas be
so "flat" that it would not run?

It likely depends on how full the tank is/was
and how much headspace there is to produce condensation
and whether it is vented.

My thinking too.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36
[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.
I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car.

Well, I can vouch for 4 year old gas - we just started the
'74 450SL in the barn which hadn't been started since
March 2020 - all it took was a new battery and it purred
like a 70's kitten.

Interesting. Was this a gasoline or diesel Mercedes? I think diesel
lasts longer.

Gasoline. The tank was close to full.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36
[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.
I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car.

Well, I can vouch for 4 year old gas - we just started the
'74 450SL in the barn which hadn't been started since
March 2020 - all it took was a new battery and it purred
like a 70's kitten.

Interesting. Was this a gasoline or diesel Mercedes? I think diesel
lasts longer.

Gasoline. The tank was close to full.

Every year, I have to mothball my lawn tractor and my snowblower (at
opposite times,
obviously). Current practice is to add some gas preserver (isopropyl
alcohol), and fill
up the tank.

Filling reduces the headspace, and so the amount of humid air to condense
water
out of, and the preserver allows what water does get in to dissolve into
the gas,
rather than sink to the bottom .

Pt

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36
[stuff deleted]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas
goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has
not been treated, it will not start the saw.
I have no idea how 10 year old gas would run in a car.

Well, I can vouch for 4 year old gas - we just started the
'74 450SL in the barn which hadn't been started since
March 2020 - all it took was a new battery and it purred
like a 70's kitten.

Interesting. Was this a gasoline or diesel Mercedes? I think diesel
lasts longer.

Gasoline. The tank was close to full.

Every year, I have to mothball my lawn tractor and my snowblower (at
opposite times,
obviously). Current practice is to add some gas preserver (isopropyl
alcohol), and fill
up the tank.

With both my generator and power washer, I valve off the gas
to the carb and let it run dry (so it doesn't gum up the carb),
but otherwise leave the gas alone.

Post by Cryptoengineer
Filling reduces the headspace, and so the amount of humid air to condense
water
out of, and the preserver allows what water does get in to dissolve into
the gas,
rather than sink to the bottom .

It is much less humid here in Sunny northern california than
it is in Ma. Thankfully.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower, chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the gas goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and has not been treated, it will not start the saw.

Interesting. I've never added any preservative, yet my chainsaw always started,
even when I went a year or more between uses. Just out of curiosity, did your
saw require a gas-oil mix as mine did? Maybe the oil acted as a preservative
for the gas.

[BCFD 36]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if the
gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise the
gas goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two old and
has not been treated, it will not start the saw.

Interesting. I've never added any preservative, yet my chainsaw always started,
even when I went a year or more between uses. Just out of curiosity, did your
saw require a gas-oil mix as mine did? Maybe the oil acted as a preservative
for the gas.

My chainsaw and weed wacker (both Stihl) are 2 cycle engines so run on
"mix", a 50:1 mixture of gasoline to chainsaw oil. Every saw I have
owned, and the saws down at the fire department were all pretty finicky
about the gasoline... it had to be somewhat fresh. There is nothing like
standing on a roof in the rain at night with the intention of cutting a
vent, and the saw won't start. Later someone puts fresh mix in it and it
fires right up. ARRRGGGGGH!

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Christian Weisgerber
I was already intrigued by the British TV mini-series _The Last Train_
(1999), where fifty years after the apocalypse our cryo-preserved
protagonists can just start up cars still sitting around in garages.
No flat batteries there.

Not only flat batteries, but flat gasoline. For those of us who have
gasoline powered power tools (in my case, weed whacker, lawn mower,
chainsaw), we have to add Stabil or some other gas preservative if
the gas is going to sit in a can more than a month or so. Otherwise
the gas goes "bad". If my chainsaw gas is more than a month or two
old and has not been treated, it will not start the saw.

Interesting. I've never added any preservative, yet my chainsaw always started,
even when I went a year or more between uses. Just out of curiosity, did your
saw require a gas-oil mix as mine did? Maybe the oil acted as a preservative
for the gas.

My chainsaw and weed wacker (both Stihl) are 2 cycle engines so run on
"mix", a 50:1 mixture of gasoline to chainsaw oil. Every saw I have
owned, and the saws down at the fire department were all pretty finicky
about the gasoline... it had to be somewhat fresh. There is nothing like
standing on a roof in the rain at night with the intention of cutting a
vent, and the saw won't start. Later someone puts fresh mix in it and it
fires right up. ARRRGGGGGH!

This is why my chainsaw, weedwacker, leafblower, etc, are all battery
powered - I don't have your requirements, and these work just find for
me.

The only gas engined devices in my house are the lawn tractor and snow
blower, and they're four cycle.

pt

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-about-rediscovering-ancient-tech/

| Often SF authors imagine that working alien relics will turn out
| to be doomsday devices.
_Forbidden Planet_. Well, not intended as such.

Would the Blight from _A Fire Upon the Deep_ count, or is "ancient tech"
implicitly hardware?

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Christian Weisgerber
| Often SF authors imagine that working alien relics will turn out
| to be doomsday devices.
_Forbidden Planet_. Well, not intended as such.

Would the Blight from _A Fire Upon the Deep_ count, or is "ancient tech"
implicitly hardware?

I think it counts as "humans discovering ancient tech", although
the distinction between technology and lifeform breaks down there.
But again, even ignoring the accidental nature of its release, this
appears to have been an equally accidental creation that turned on
its makers in the deep past. Or are there any hints that it was
designed as a weapon? The very name "Blight" brings to mind a
version of the paperclip maximizer.

[Default User]

Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Novels About Rediscovering Ancient Tech
Forget planned obsolescence--the creators of these enduring
technological marvels built them to last (for better or worse).

The Alastair Reynolds Revenger series has a background where a long ago
highly advanced civilization disassembled the solar system and used the
materials to build a vast number of habitats orbiting the Sun.
Thousands of years later, those are still in use.

Also, there have been many cycles of rising and falling civilizations
inhabiting those mini-worlds. Often, examples of their technology are
locked away in sort of vaults. Subsequent, often lower tech, groups try
to crack open those to gain access to the artifacts.


Brian