Nebula Finalists 1982

[James Nicoll]

Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.

Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

I have read all of them. I would have picked either the Crowley or
the Hoban over the Wolfe, but only because I don't think the Wolfe
stands on its own.

Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?

The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge

I have read the Anderson, the Benford, and the Vinge. The Anderson
might well be worst novella to win both Nebula and Hugo. Stupid voters.

Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?

The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant

I have only read the Swanwick and the Bryant. I am a bit surprised
I missed the Tiptree. Of all the SFF authors who murdered their
spouse, she was probably the best writer. Although one can make a
case for William S. Burroughs.

Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?

The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan

Only the Gibson, the Varley, the Florance-Guthridge, and the Robinson.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

Wolfe, Crowley, Hoban, May

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?
The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge

Anderson, Vinge

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?
The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant

Bryant, Godwin

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?
The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan

Gobson, Varley

pt

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 6 May 2024 12:05:33 -0400, Cryptoengineer

Post by James Nicoll
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

The only one of those I read was Julian May's book - I was in business
school at the time and while I read her whole series (and used Aiken
Drum as my screen name for several years before I dropped it quickly
after I read that a British pedophile had also been using the name on
British forums) as pretty much my ONLY reading besides textbooks and
newspapers and especially business magazines.

Beyond that what spare time I had was romancing my girlfriend who I
married the summer after graduation - 37 years married before her
untimely death two years ago.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

Only the Wolfe and May titles.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?
The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge

Anderson, Vinge (I don't believe that I have read the Eisenstein, though
I do have the issue of F&SF that it was published in)

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?
The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant

I think I have read the Broxon.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?
The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan

The Varley doesn't look familiar, though I have the issue of F&SF it
appeared in. Don't believe I have read the others.

[Chris Buckley]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas
I have read all of them. I would have picked either the Crowley or
the Hoban over the Wolfe, but only because I don't think the Wolfe
stands on its own.

Read all. The Crowley and Wolfe are strong Favorites (though I agree
The Wolfe doesn't stand on its own; just that the quartet is that
good). The Hoban is very good, the May is good as is probably the
Charnas (less certain there without re-reading). The Attanasio I
managed to get through but didn't appreciate at all.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?
The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge
I have read the Anderson, the Benford, and the Vinge. The Anderson
might well be worst novella to win both Nebula and Hugo. Stupid voters.

The Anderson and Vinge. I have many copies of _True Names_ (at least 4 as
I wanted to reward Vinge for writing it.) A Favorite.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?
The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant
I have only read the Swanwick and the Bryant. I am a bit surprised
I missed the Tiptree. Of all the SFF authors who murdered their
spouse, she was probably the best writer. Although one can make a
case for William S. Burroughs.

None at all.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?
The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan
Only the Gibson, the Varley, the Florance-Guthridge, and the Robinson.

The Gibson and Varley.

Chris

[Titus G]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas
I have read all of them. I would have picked either the Crowley or
the Hoban over the Wolfe, but only because I don't think the Wolfe
stands on its own.

I did not enjoy the beginning of the Book of the New Sun for its stilted
style and content but over the years I have heard so much in favour of
it that in February last year, I read Shadow and Claw but was not
inspired to continue. However, I have read Little,Big three times and it
is a five star favourite.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.

I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.

Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).

I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.

I believe there are four books in that particular trilogy: The Shadow
of the Torturer, The Claw of the Conciliator, The Sword of the Lictor,
and The Citadel of the Autarch,

[Steve Coltrin]

begin fnord

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Michael F. Stemper
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.

I believe there are four books in that particular trilogy: The Shadow
of the Torturer, The Claw of the Conciliator, The Sword of the Lictor,
and The Citadel of the Autarch,

4.5, with _The Urth of the New Sun_ being a coda.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.

I believe there are four books in that particular trilogy: The Shadow
of the Torturer, The Claw of the Conciliator, The Sword of the Lictor,
and The Citadel of the Autarch,

Checking my book log from 2002 shows me that this the case, and that
I did indeed struggle through all four of those.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that? (Did we cover this before...)

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

[Paul S Person]

On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

Of course, paper copies can be sold to used-book stores, but I
wouldn't think that would be "selling them back".

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

=20
You can do that?=A0 (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

Sure, you can do that but you cannot sell them back UNTIL you have read
them because... maybe you'll change your mind and want to see how they end.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

=20
You can do that?=A0 (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

Sure, you can do that but you cannot sell them back UNTIL you have read
them because... maybe you'll change your mind and want to see how they end.

I agree with that in general, and apply it to movies and the arts
(fine or not-so-fine) in general, but, as noted recently, I have run
into two books that I did not finish because I lost all interest in
them -- IOW, I didn't care if they got better, they had become
offensive. And that's not counting the one I misplaced and simply
moved on to the next rather than getting a new copy to read.

One of the reasons I did this was so that nobody could tell me "it
gets better" because I had read/seen the thing through to the bitter
end and, no, it did not.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper
I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

Sure, you can do that but you cannot sell them back UNTIL you have read
them because... maybe you'll change your mind and want to see how they end.

You appear to fall into the "You have to..." camp.

As a friend of mine said many years back, "Life's too short to drink shit beer."
The same principle applies, IMO, to books.

[Chris Buckley]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.
Of course, paper copies can be sold to used-book stores, but I
wouldn't think that would be "selling them back".

I did that quite a bit when young, but that was when I was buying
hundreds of books a year from used book stores and flea markets in
the first place. Several went back to the original store (at a 50%
or larger loss to me) so I would say that was "selling them back".

None of these books went back because of the writing quality of the
book - they all were sold because I had more than one copy! At
10 to 20 cents per book (Oklahoma prices) it wasn't worth being careful.

Chris

[Paul S Person]

Post by Chris Buckley

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.
Of course, paper copies can be sold to used-book stores, but I
wouldn't think that would be "selling them back".

I did that quite a bit when young, but that was when I was buying
hundreds of books a year from used book stores and flea markets in
the first place. Several went back to the original store (at a 50%
or larger loss to me) so I would say that was "selling them back".

I did that to, when the local branch library kept me restricted to the
kid's section after I had read /every single book/ and promised do so
for the next three years and I "discovered" used book stores.

However, I've always regarded that as, in effect, a form of renting
since, not having enough space to keep them all, I bought them
planning to bring them back after they had been read. Duplicates or
not.

Post by Chris Buckley
None of these books went back because of the writing quality of the
book - they all were sold because I had more than one copy! At
10 to 20 cents per book (Oklahoma prices) it wasn't worth being careful.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

What about selling them back after not reading them?

Post by Paul S Person
Of course, paper copies can be sold to used-book stores, but I
wouldn't think that would be "selling them back".

Why not?

[Paul S Person]

On Wed, 29 May 2024 15:45:13 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:39:16 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

This seems to have been a bad year for my tastes.
I read the Wolfe, along with the rest of that trilogy. Then, I
sold them back.
Ditto the May (give or take it being part of a quadrology).
I got maybe fifty pages into the Crowley and sold it back.

You can do that?  (Did we cover this before...)

I think that there was a lengthy discussion along the lines of "Do
you have to finish every book you start?" I don't think that I
ever participated in it, but now you know where I stand on the
issue.

I think he may have been asking about selling books back after reading
them.

What about selling them back after not reading them?

Post by Paul S Person
Of course, paper copies can be sold to used-book stores, but I
wouldn't think that would be "selling them back".

Why not?

Becaise the impression I got was that he had purchased them /new/. And
so not at a used-book store.

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

Finally starting to get into stuff new enough that I could have found
them in the library contemporaneously. I have read the May, but I
actually started with INTERVENTION (1987) when it was on the "new
fiction" shelf and then found the earlier series in the card catalog.

I've at least heard of the Crowley, although I've never read it. 0/4
on the others.

-GAWollman

[William Hyde]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

The Wolfe and the Crowley, of course. Very find books, reread often.

I've read the May twice, but the series goes downhill rapidly, at least
for me.

Post by James Nicoll
I have read all of them. I would have picked either the Crowley or
the Hoban over the Wolfe, but only because I don't think the Wolfe
stands on its own.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?
The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson

I read this much later, and was disappointed with it. That's very rare
for me with Anderson.

Post by James Nicoll
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge

Somehow managed to miss all of these, unless the Benford wound up in one
of his novels. These are practically the only stories by Vinge or
Wilhelm that I have missed.

Post by James Nicoll
I have read the Anderson, the Benford, and the Vinge. The Anderson
might well be worst novella to win both Nebula and Hugo. Stupid voters.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?
The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant

Zero.

Post by James Nicoll
I have only read the Swanwick and the Bryant. I am a bit surprised
I missed the Tiptree. Of all the SFF authors who murdered their
spouse, she was probably the best writer. Although one can make a
case for William S. Burroughs.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?
The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan

Also zero.

I read less and less SF for a decade, until I discovered this group.
Clearly I still haven't caught up.

William Hyde

[Chris Buckley]

Post by William Hyde

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas

The Wolfe and the Crowley, of course. Very find books, reread often.
I've read the May twice, but the series goes downhill rapidly, at least
for me.

I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I think it's because May did such a nice job of the world and
character building in the first book, but then expanded on those
later in directions that were much less convincing.

It's a shame; I really liked the first book - enough so I got
the rest of the first quartet in their British paperbacks instead of waiting
for US publication.

Chris

[The Horny Goat]

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.

For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

(The books were written nearly 40 years ago so I'm skeptical ROT13ing
the above isn't needed to prevent spoiling)

[Paul S Person]

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.

Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

Post by The Horny Goat
(The books were written nearly 40 years ago so I'm skeptical ROT13ing
the above isn't needed to prevent spoiling)

Unless you are saying that you have doubts about <ROT13ing the above>
not being needed to prevent spoilers, you may not mean what you
thought you meant.

And, if you had such doubts, why isn't it ROT13-ed? If you doubt it
isn't needed, doesn't that mean that it would at least be a prudent
thing to do?

Of course, my mind persists in inserting "that": "I'm skeptical that
ROT13ing" rather than "I'm skeptical ROT13ing". Perhaps the latter
doesn't mean what /I/ think it means!

[BCFD 36]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.
Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

Post by The Horny Goat
(The books were written nearly 40 years ago so I'm skeptical ROT13ing
the above isn't needed to prevent spoiling)

Unless you are saying that you have doubts about <ROT13ing the above>
not being needed to prevent spoilers, you may not mean what you
thought you meant.
And, if you had such doubts, why isn't it ROT13-ed? If you doubt it
isn't needed, doesn't that mean that it would at least be a prudent
thing to do?
Of course, my mind persists in inserting "that": "I'm skeptical that
ROT13ing" rather than "I'm skeptical ROT13ing". Perhaps the latter
doesn't mean what /I/ think it means!

As far as I can tell, Thunderbird does not even do ROT13 anymore.
Annoying to say the least.

[The Horny Goat]

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Paul S Person
And, if you had such doubts, why isn't it ROT13-ed? If you doubt it
isn't needed, doesn't that mean that it would at least be a prudent
thing to do?
Of course, my mind persists in inserting "that": "I'm skeptical that
ROT13ing" rather than "I'm skeptical ROT13ing". Perhaps the latter
doesn't mean what /I/ think it means!

As far as I can tell, Thunderbird does not even do ROT13 anymore.
Annoying to say the least.

I use Agent 8 where you highlight your text and go <ctrl><alt>3 to
flip to and from ROT-13.

Of course one can always copy and paste into rot13.com to do your
conversions - it's not like rot-13'ing is much in vogue these days...

[The Horny Goat]

On Fri, 10 May 2024 08:25:36 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.

Well I'm pretty sure the creation of the Meditteranean wasn't caused
by a psychokinetic 21st century time traveller who went back in time
and used his powers to break a critical rock face.

Still I do consider even nearly 40 years later May's 'The Many-Colored
Land' one of the great SF romps I've ever read. And Aiken Drum one of
the most memorable anti-heroes in literature...

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Fri, 10 May 2024 08:25:36 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.

Well I'm pretty sure the creation of the Meditteranean wasn't caused
by a psychokinetic 21st century time traveller who went back in time
and used his powers to break a critical rock face.

I would draw your attention to the first appendix to THE GOLDEN TORC,
"Apologia Pro Geologia Sua", which goes into what was known about the
era and the ways in which May intentionally fudged details to meet the
needs of the story. (In a footnote, she also mentions the Great
Missoula Floods, which were much smaller events than the most recent
filling of the Med basin.)

And of course it was a *her*.

-GAWollman

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.
Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

The drying of both, and the subsequent flooding, aren't theories; they're
well established, with lots of evidence. Othboth occurred a few
million years ago, before modern humans evolved.

However, the Black Sea partially dried up during the Ice Ages, and flooded
again when the Mediterranean rose enough to enter through the Bosporus.
Various dates have been proposed, including around 5600 BC. That has been
proposed as the source of Flood legends.

Pt

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.
Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

The drying of both, and the subsequent flooding, aren't theories; they're
well established, with lots of evidence. Othboth occurred a few
million years ago, before modern humans evolved.
However, the Black Sea partially dried up during the Ice Ages, and flooded
again when the Mediterranean rose enough to enter through the Bosporus.
Various dates have been proposed, including around 5600 BC. That has been
proposed as the source of Flood legends.
Pt

As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.
Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

The drying of both, and the subsequent flooding, aren't theories; they're
well established, with lots of evidence. Othboth occurred a few
million years ago, before modern humans evolved.
However, the Black Sea partially dried up during the Ice Ages, and flooded
again when the Mediterranean rose enough to enter through the Bosporus.
Various dates have been proposed, including around 5600 BC. That has been
proposed as the source of Flood legends.
Pt

As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

Also Turtledove 'Down in the Bottomlands'.

Pt

[The Horny Goat]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

Glad to know Julian May wasn't the only one...

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

[James Nicoll]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

The series as a whole is called the Gandalara series. The books are:

1 1 The Steel of Raithskar (1981) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
2 The Glass of Dyskornis (1982) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
3 The Bronze of Eddarta (1983) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
4 The Well of Darkness (1983) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
5 The Search for KÀ (1984) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
6 Return to Eddarta (1985) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron
7 The River Wall (1986) by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron

They are currently published by JABberwocky Literary Agency and
available on Amazon and at Chapters.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

Sorry; I should have trimmed more so that my question was clearer.

Ted Nolan's already given me a link to the XKCD.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

For Garrett's "Gandalara Cycle", you can start here:

https://www.amazon.com/Steel-Raithskar-Gandalara-Cycle-Book-ebook/dp/B07KY4BW6N

For XKCD's "Time", you can start (among other places) here:

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1190:_Time

Be aware that watching the completed sequence is a much different experience
than watching it unfold over days & days.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1190:_Time
Be aware that watching the completed sequence is a much different experience
than watching it unfold over days & days.

Thanks! Now all that I need to do is find a way to pause (or at least slow down)
an animated GIF so that I can read what the characters are saying.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1190:_Time
Be aware that watching the completed sequence is a much different experience
than watching it unfold over days & days.

Thanks! Now all that I need to do is find a way to pause (or at least slow down)
an animated GIF so that I can read what the characters are saying.

Surprisingly, eog doesn't have this feature, and none of the methods
suggested on-line for pausing an animated GIF in Firefox (such as ESC)
have any effect. (I find the first rather surprising, but there you go.)

Fortunately, Cryptoengineer posted a link to a version that allows one
to step through it one frame at a time.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
As I recall Randall Garret (mostly his wife due to his declining health)
had a series with pre-human cat-people in a pre-deluge Mediterranian basin.
Also, there is a Hugo winning XKCD sequence set in a future dry Med basin.

How can I find this?

Here's one place:
https://deplicator.github.io/xkcd-time-at-your-pace/

There are over 3000 frames.

pt

[Paul S Person]

On Sat, 11 May 2024 03:30:19 -0000 (UTC), Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by Chris Buckley
I agree with the May (and the other two). The May is one of the rare
cases where my opinion of the first book of a series went down as I
read more of the series. There are plenty of series where my opinion
of the series goes down after I read more, but not many where the
opinion of the first book itself goes down.

I thought the first of the May books was the weakest of the series and
that they improved as she went on.
For me one of the best scenes was the creation of the Mediterranian
sea following the breaking of the rock formation of which Gibraltar
was part (and the only surviving portion of the rock face) - which one
of the main characters of the book played a critical part.

I've encountered that theory before. Also applied to the Red Sea with
the Bab al-Mandab the result of the breach.
Both, IIRC, were claimed to be what produced all those flood legends.

The drying of both, and the subsequent flooding, aren't theories; they're
well established, with lots of evidence. Othboth occurred a few
million years ago, before modern humans evolved.

Genetic memory can be a power thing. Well, so I have read. It may not
even exist, who can say?

Post by Cryptoengineer
However, the Black Sea partially dried up during the Ice Ages, and flooded
again when the Mediterranean rose enough to enter through the Bosporus.
Various dates have been proposed, including around 5600 BC. That has been
proposed as the source of Flood legends.

A third candidate!

All of these theories take it for granted that "all the earth" refers
to a local (if large) area. And enhancements to the story over time.

OTOH, with several of these stories running around, that something
happened to prompt them is an attractive proposition. Note that I do
not say a correct one, however.

[Tony Nance]

Post by James Nicoll
Another round of Nebula finalists, this time from the 1982 awards.
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?
The Claw of the Conciliator by Gene Wolfe
Little, Big by John Crowley
Radix by A. A. Attanasio
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban
The Many-Colored Land by Julian May
The Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas
I have read all of them. I would have picked either the Crowley or
the Hoban over the Wolfe, but only because I don't think the Wolfe
stands on its own.

Just the Wolfe and the May here. I have tried to read the Crowley at
least three times and stalled hard every time.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?
The Saturn Game by Poul Anderson
Amnesia by Jack Dann
In the Western Tradition by Phyllis Eisenstein
Swarmer, Skimmer by Gregory Benford
The Winter Beach by Kate Wilhelm
True Names by Vernor Vinge
I have read the Anderson, the Benford, and the Vinge.

Anderson and Vinge only

Post by James Nicoll
The Anderson
might well be worst novella to win both Nebula and Hugo. Stupid voters.

Yeah, it's not good, and it doesn't age well either. Not sure why it
won...was there a boom in D&D/LARPing in 1981/2?

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?
The Quickening by Michael Bishop
Lirios: A Tale of the Quintana Roo by James Tiptree, Jr.
Mummer Kiss by Michael Swanwick
Sea Changeling by Mildred Downey Broxon
The Fire When It Comes by Parke Godwin
The Thermals of August by Edward Bryant
I have only read the Swanwick and the Bryant. I am a bit surprised
I missed the Tiptree. Of all the SFF authors who murdered their
spouse, she was probably the best writer. Although one can make a
case for William S. Burroughs.

Just the Tiptree. Bryant's consistent appearances in these lists make me
want to track down a collection of some sort.

Post by James Nicoll
Which 1982 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?
The Bone Flute by Lisa Tuttle
Disciples by Gardner Dozois
Going Under by Jack Dann
Johnny Mnemonic by William Gibson
The Pusher by John Varley
The Quiet by George Florance-Guthridge
Venice Drowned by Kim Stanley Robinson
Zeke by Timothy Robert Sullivan
Only the Gibson, the Varley, the Florance-Guthridge, and the Robinson.

Just the Dozois, Gibson, and the Varley.

Tony