(Worst) Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein

[James Nicoll]

Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein

Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

With respect to _Tunnel in the Sky_ (no, I won't use the initialism),
Rod Walker describes one gal as having Zulu ancestry, and at a
different point, looking a lot like his sister.

(This is from memory; I haven't read it since 2006.)

[James Nicoll]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

With respect to _Tunnel in the Sky_ (no, I won't use the initialism),
Rod Walker describes one gal as having Zulu ancestry, and at a
different point, looking a lot like his sister.
(This is from memory; I haven't read it since 2006.)

That could might mean Rod and his sister are black but it might not.

However, TitS does have interacial marriage out the wazoo, which was
pretty unusual for a kids book in the 1950s.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

With respect to _Tunnel in the Sky_ (no, I won't use the initialism),
Rod Walker describes one gal as having Zulu ancestry, and at a
different point, looking a lot like his sister.
(This is from memory; I haven't read it since 2006.)

That could might mean Rod and his sister are black but it might not.

Their father was not happy that Rod was friends with that girl (which
doesn't mean that Rod wasn't black, but I suspect that she was
significantly darker than Rod).

Post by James Nicoll
However, TitS does have interacial marriage out the wazoo, which was
pretty unusual for a kids book in the 1950s.

[WolfFan]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

With respect to _Tunnel in the Sky_ (no, I won't use the initialism),
Rod Walker describes one gal as having Zulu ancestry, and at a
different point, looking a lot like his sister.
(This is from memory; I haven't read it since 2006.)

Caroline was big, husky, and had a problem with other people’s self-imposed
authority. Rod’s sister was big, husky (thick ankles if I’m thinking of
the correct book) and at least a company-grade sort of officer in the
military.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?

Lynn

[Mike Van Pelt]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?

It seems clear to me that the cannibalism was included so Heinlein
could make the statment through Farnham that slavery was a worse
evil than cannibalism.

[The Horny Goat]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 06:17:43 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?

It seems clear to me that the cannibalism was included so Heinlein
could make the statment through Farnham that slavery was a worse
evil than cannibalism.

My first reaction was "WTF?", my second reaction was the same as
yours.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?

I will have you know that sort of thing does NOT happen in the Royal Navy.
--scott

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?

I will have you know that sort of thing does NOT happen in the Royal Navy.

And when I say "none", I mean there is a certain amount.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?
Lynn

If cannabilism for survival is indicated do not eat the
brains. Stick to muscle meat and alway cook it well done. In
the long series about the return of magic to the world and
the death of high tech such as internal compubution engines.
Insane cannibals are the fate of city populations.
The Emberverse of S.M. Stirling consoders cannabalism to be
the ultimate and unforgivable sin.
Read them all. Would read more if he was so bold as to
write more about a world with magic.

bliss

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?
Lynn

    If cannabilism for survival is indicated do not eat the
brains. Stick to muscle meat and alway cook it well done. In
the long series about the return of magic to the world and
the death of high tech such as internal compubution engines.
Insane cannibals are the fate of city populations.
The Emberverse of  S.M. Stirling consoders cannabalism to be
the ultimate and unforgivable sin.
    Read them all. Would read more if he was so bold as to
write more about a world with magic.
    bliss
Read them all. Would read more if he was so bold as to
write more about a world with magic.

Is he S.M. Stirling ? If so, I have read over 20 of his books. The
Emberverse is the best but it declines rapidly after the first four
books, Conquistador, Draka books, Island books, etc.

Lynn

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by James Nicoll
Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein
Can atomic Commiegeddon and the end of the world distract comely young
Barbara from the allure of irresistibly middle-aged Hugh Farnham's
interminable lectures? And what of the Race Question?
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/sic-transit-gloria-mundi

And what of the cannibalism question ?
Lynn

     If cannabilism for survival is indicated do not eat the
brains. Stick to muscle meat and alway cook it well done. In
the long series about the return of magic to the world and
the death of high tech such as internal compubution engines.
Insane cannibals are the fate of city populations.
The Emberverse of  S.M. Stirling considers cannabalism to be
the ultimate and unforgivable sin.
     Read them all. Would read more if he was so bold as to
write more about a world with magic.
     bliss
      Read them all. Would read more if he was so bold as to
write more about a world with magic.

Is he S.M. Stirling ?  If so, I have read over 20 of his books.  The
Emberverse is the best but it declines rapidly after the first four
books, Conquistador, Draka books, Island books, etc.
Lynn

Indeed as stated in my first paragraph.
After he brought in the Magical Empress of Japan versus
the Korean shaman supporting the anti-life forces he must
have decided the limb he was out on was too weak to support
further developement
Any time he wants to do a sequel to Conquistador I await
with abated breath. Same for Charles Stross contining his
inter-world saga. The Laundry files were over with the manifestation
of careless evil savoring brutality taking over the government
of the UK. They need a magic draining spell to clear that whole
messy world up.

bliss

[quadibloc]

Since Heinlein has a mama's boy end up as an eunuch, it's clear he was
using the book as a platform for his views.
But that doesn't mean he was racist; the nature of the future society
was likely just there for the plot.
Instead, it seems to me that the view the book was sermonizing for is
one we've seen in other Heinlein works: extolling the virtues of the
rugged self-reliant individual, of which Farnham in this book is an
example.
What is a product of the time in which the book was written... was
simply that one didn't expect the apparent possible racism to be an
issue.

John Savard

[William Hyde]

Post by quadibloc
Since Heinlein has a mama's boy end up as an eunuch, it's clear he was
using the book as a platform for his views.

Since the sky is blue, it is clear that sea cucumbers are Riemann sums.

Post by quadibloc
But that doesn't mean he was racist; the nature of the future society
was likely just there for the plot.
Instead, it seems to me that the view the book was sermonizing for is
one we've seen in other Heinlein works: extolling the virtues of the
rugged self-reliant individual, of which Farnham in this book is an
example.
What is a product of the time in which the book was written...

My memory may be failing, but I don't recall a lot of novels in the
1960s in which future cannibalistic black societies were portrayed.
Well, maybe by KKK publishing but they were not distributed up here,
being banned by the grammar police.


was

Post by quadibloc
simply that one didn't expect the apparent possible racism to be an
issue.

One should have.

As a young white teen, in an all-white area, so far from woke that I was
not clear on the difference between Nat King Cole and Martin Luther
King, I was not happy with Heinlein's choice. Not deeply disturbed (see
above), but not happy.

Had I already read "Sixth Column" it would have bothered me more.

People older and wiser than I, who knew of recondite subjects like Jim
Crow, or even the civil rights act, could well be expected to be
perturbed a great deal more.

A world "upside down" is a well known theme in writing through the ages.
The Romans even acted it out in Saturnalia, during which the slaves were
free, and the masters fed the slaves (mostly food cooked by those same
slaves the day before, admittedly). But the addition of castration,
other casual mutilation, and cannibalism is questionable, at the least,
if such events are not common in the "upside up" society.

William Hyde