Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it
in Atlantic.
Lynn

Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.

But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.

bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-10 00:42:55 UTC

    Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
    Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
    But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
    Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
    bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.

Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.

Lynn

Mad Hamish

2025-01-10 01:45:25 UTC

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire

    Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
    Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
    But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
    Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
    bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.

here's a list of equipment the US sent in the first year and a bit
https://globalaffairs.org/commentary-and-analysis/blogs/what-has-united-states-sent-ukraine-so-far?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAhP67BhAVEiwA2E_9gyllVy0urfwPV1wuiQFeK8lsCflUUfSU8ozkcLwqRwhdiQuPnreLMhoCYwQQAvD_BwE

as of Septemper last year
"Its important to note that of the $175 billion total, only $106
billion directly aids the government of Ukraine. Most of the remainder
is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine,
and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region."

here's an analysis of spending
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/29/ukraine-military-aid-american-economy-boost/
" Of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has
approved since Russia invaded Ukraine, almost 90 percent is going to
Americans, one analysis found."

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 03:52:37 UTC

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Lynn

Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.

My you are a fearful pessimist.

bliss

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-10 04:39:17 UTC

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine
will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in
nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

    Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
    My you are a fearful pessimist.
        bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.

Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 06:02:39 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will
end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn

How do you know that Putin has been living in his
bomb shelter?

He has been trying of course to get the rest of the
world living in bomb shelters since he started his rants
about super weapons such as hypersonic missiles.

bliss - hobbling about

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-10 21:41:01 UTC

On 1/10/2025 12:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn

    How do you know that Putin has been living in his
bomb shelter?
    He has been trying of course to get the rest of the
world living in bomb shelters since he started his rants
about super weapons such as hypersonic missiles.
    bliss - hobbling about

Because that is where Tucker Carlson interviewed him on Feb 6, 2024 last
year. I highly recommend the two hour plus interview. It starts off
with a one hour history lesson about Russia by Putin.
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 22:35:08 UTC

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn

     How do you know that Putin has been living in his
bomb shelter?
     He has been trying of course to get the rest of the
world living in bomb shelters since he started his rants
about super weapons such as hypersonic missiles.
     bliss - hobbling about

You are a useful idiot for Putin. I would no more trust his
version of Russian History than i would invest in his banks. As
for Tucker Carlson you must be joking. He too is a useful tool in
the camp of authoritarism.
A man living in a bomb shelter fearful of the people he
oppresses.

He chose to ruin his nation with the invasion of Ukraine.

bliss - hobbling but not mentally deficient.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-11 21:43:51 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Because that is where Tucker Carlson interviewed him on Feb 6, 2024 last
year. I highly recommend the two hour plus interview. It starts off
with a one hour history lesson about Russia by Putin.
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview

I highly recommend it because it says a whole lot about what Putin thinks
and what his original strategy was. The "history lesson" is especially
interesting.

Some of the history is correct, some of it is total bunkum (like the
assertation that "Ukraine has always been part of Russia.") Some of it
is accurate but distorted by being taken badly out of context (such
as the mention of Ukranian Nazis).

But -all- of it is what Putin wants people to believe the history actually
was, and it's what is being taught in Russian schools today. (It might
also be what was taught in Soviet schools too and that is something I would
be really curious about finding out.)

It's interesting to see him lapse into the dielectic too. Some of that
is just characteristically Soviet.

I would love to see a serious historian annotate some of that talk.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-10 15:38:49 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will
end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

2025-01-11 12:31:19 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
Â Â Â https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.Â Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine.Â Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it
in Atlantic.
Lynn

Â Â Â Â Â Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Â Â Â Â Â Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
Â Â Â Â Â But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Â Â Â Â Â Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
Â Â Â Â Â bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?Â The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.Â We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia.Â Any difference from that will end in nuclear weapon
exchanges.
Lynn

Â Â Â Â Â Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
Â Â Â Â Â My you are a fearful pessimist.
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bliss

Yes.Â That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the
nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the
Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and destruction
of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.

There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.

Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed
to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 20:03:43 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no
good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that
will end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look
at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion
with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry,
it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.

I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities
were designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university
professor, has left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go
to Germany but were denied access.

I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.

Lynn

2025-01-11 23:37:49 UTC

Post by D
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed
to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read that
the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's orders.

No, I do not think so. I think there are at least several people between Putin
and the button.

I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me down.
Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines, compressor
stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were designed
using my software. My agent, a Russian university professor, has left Russia
and taken his family out. They tried to go to Germany but were denied
access.

Were you able to help him? Where did he end up in the end? A member of a team i
mgmt was let go after I terminated my consulting gig, due to having a double
swedish/russian passport. There are many good russians who the current
catastrophy has punished. In his case, I was a reference for him and gave him
very good references and reviews, so all finished well with a new job after 3-4
months (out of 3 where paid vacation) and a salary that was 30% higher than in
his previous job. =)

I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I still
have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a couple of
others. I sell my software all over the world.

You are a good businessman! I have 1 small piece of software, and a
systems-creation in the form of lab environments for students, but I only sell
it in one country to a few schools.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-12 00:45:56 UTC

Post by D
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a
look at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in
proportion with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get
angry, it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.

No, I do not think so. I think there are at least several people between Putin
and the button.

I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities
were designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university
professor, has left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go
to Germany but were denied access.

I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and
a couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.

You are a good businessman! I have 1 small piece of software, and a
systems-creation in the form of lab environments for students, but I only sell
it in one country to a few schools.

Lynn

No, he had to do this on his own as I do not know anything about the
region. He eventually moved himself and his family to Azerbaijan which
I was surprised to think that it was better than Russia.

My employees and I write and sell this software. My father started the
business in 1968 when he was a chemical engineering prof at the
University of Oklahoma.
https://www.winsim.com/

Lynn

2025-01-12 11:41:38 UTC

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ?Â I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.

No, I do not think so. I think there are at least several people between Putin
and the button.

I have never been in Russia or Ukraine.Â I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were
designed using my software.Â My agent, a Russian university professor, has
left Russia and taken his family out.Â They tried to go to Germany but
were denied access.

I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while.Â I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others.Â I sell my software all over the world.

You are a good businessman! I have 1 small piece of software, and a
systems-creation in the form of lab environments for students, but I only sell
it in one country to a few schools.

Lynn

No, he had to do this on his own as I do not know anything about the region.
He eventually moved himself and his family to Azerbaijan which I was
surprised to think that it was better than Russia.
My employees and I write and sell this software. My father started the
business in 1968 when he was a chemical engineering prof at the University of
Oklahoma.
https://www.winsim.com/

Very imoressive! I like the fact that it is a software family business! =)
It is a very rare thing, or at least something which certainly doesn't
reach the public eye. I imagine that it tends to cover very unique and
niche segments of the market often overlooked by the big software houses.

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-12 00:19:34 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no
good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that
will end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter
under the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look
at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion
with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get
angry, it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ?

A more pertinent question is "Does PUTIN think he can actually launch
nukes if he tries?"

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-12 02:11:05 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no
good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that
will end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter
under the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look
at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion
with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get
angry, it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities
were designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university
professor, has left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go
to Germany but were denied access.
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.

Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss

pt

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-12 04:18:56 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on
fire and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no
good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood
and treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting
totally screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what
we do, Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference
from that will end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

     Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
     My you are a fearful pessimist.
         bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter
under the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a
look at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in
proportion with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get
angry, it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities
were designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university
professor, has left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go
to Germany but were denied access.
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and
a couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.

Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
pt

I can neither confirm nor deny any knowledge of the CIA's involvement in
the tragedy.

Lynn

2025-01-12 11:43:55 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
Â Â Â https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.Â Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine.Â Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?Â The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.Â We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia.Â Any difference from that will
end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

Â Â Â Â Â Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
Â Â Â Â Â My you are a fearful pessimist.
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bliss

Yes.Â That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
destruction of the Russian economy.

This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed
to take over Moscow without any resistance.

Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ?Â I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine.Â I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down.Â Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were
designed using my software.Â My agent, a Russian university professor, has
left Russia and taken his family out.Â They tried to go to Germany but
were denied access.
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while.Â I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others.Â I sell my software all over the world.

Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
pt

I can neither confirm nor deny any knowledge of the CIA's involvement in the
tragedy.

Aha! There's no better confirmation than that! ;)

Lynn

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 15:56:27 UTC

Post by Cryptoengineer
Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss

Rumors are that it was PLC code, and that the Russians pirated PLC software
updates to go with their hardware since they didn't have vendor support
contracts... and they pirated from the wrong place. Namely from a CIA
agent. Is this true? I don't know but it's what our security guys say and
they love to use it as an example of supply chain insecurity.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-12 17:53:38 UTC

The wikipedia article gives some reasons to doubt the story, such as a
claim that at the time, the USSR didn't have digital controls on the
pipelines.

We do know that *something* sure as hell made an explosion visible from
orbit.

pt

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 15:50:28 UTC

Yes, and this is in a country which is used to being used to support their
government rather than the other way around. They've served under crazy
dictators for the past seven hundred years.

But... what can the angry people do, that's the question? It took a lot of
very angry people combined with a depressed and disenchanted government to
take down the Soviet Union. Can people get that angry again and can the
upper reaches of the government get that demoralized?

Post by D
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.

Yeah, but they did that in WWI and WWII also.... the farmers have been
angry for a long time. How much more angry do they need to be? I wish
I knew.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

2025-01-12 19:03:16 UTC

Yes, and this is in a country which is used to being used to support their
government rather than the other way around. They've served under crazy
dictators for the past seven hundred years.
But... what can the angry people do, that's the question? It took a lot of
very angry people combined with a depressed and disenchanted government to
take down the Soviet Union. Can people get that angry again and can the
upper reaches of the government get that demoralized?

Yeah, but they did that in WWI and WWII also.... the farmers have been
angry for a long time. How much more angry do they need to be? I wish
I knew.
--scott

This is indeed a very difficult and important question. Someone did manage
to fire up the people around 1917, and the house collapsed when the soviet
union fell. It has happened. Will it happen soon? In a year? In two years?
Hopefully we will all be alive when it happens.

Paul S Person

2025-01-10 17:34:22 UTC

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine
will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in
nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

    Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
    My you are a fearful pessimist.
        bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Scott Lurndal

2025-01-10 18:44:43 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
=A0=A0=A0 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.=A0 Uncle has given several hundred =

billion=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =

thrown=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
it in Atlantic.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =

understand

how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the money is spent with our allies who buy from =

or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =

good=20

because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.=A0 We have sent blood and=20
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally=20
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, =

Ukraine=20

will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =

in=20

nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =

USA.

=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.

(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 20:39:41 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

billion=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =

thrown=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
it in Atlantic.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =

understand

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =

good=20

Ukraine=20

will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =

in=20

nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =

USA.

=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)

Definetely nearby at the Fortress of the Old Man of the Moutain
but they may have been copying Chinese Ninja. According to legend the
Old Man showed them Paradise via hashish (not just cannabis) and other
drugs of the time. Then with rigorous training he sent them into the
palaces and castles of those who would suppress his taxation of the
trade routes and when they planned to do the old Mans some harm they
activated to kill the planner.

bliss - hobbiing along

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 21:38:12 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

billion=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =

thrown=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
it in Atlantic.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =

understand

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =

good=20

Ukraine=20

will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =

in=20

nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =

USA.

=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of=20
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)

Definetely nearby at the Fortress of the Old Man of the Mountain
but they may have been copying Chinese Ninja. According to legend the
Old Man showed them Paradise via hashish (not just cannabis) and other
drugs of the time. Then with rigorous training he sent them into the
palaces and castles of those who would suppress his taxation of the
trade routes and when they planned to do the Old Man some harm they
activated to kill the planner.
bliss - hobbiing along

Corrected.

2025-01-11 12:39:12 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

billion=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =

thrown=20

Post by Lynn McGuire
it in Atlantic.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =

understand

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =

good=20

Ukraine=20

will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =

in=20

nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn

=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =

USA.

=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.

Due to the psychological pressures of being a dictator, most of them, if
not all, tend to become more and more paranoid and mentally ill over time.

This leads to the downfall of the kingdom eventually. We can just hope
that as the west increases the pressure, and the russian economy falls to
pieces, that Putin breaks down eventually. His brutuses will then remove
him swiftly by pushing him out of a window.

Post by Scott Lurndal
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:28:20 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire

<snip-a-bit>

Post by Paul S Person

Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.

Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?

Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)

Ah, yes -- the Hashishim. Servants of The Old Man of the Mountain.

Perhaps (who can say?) source of the "50 virgins" theory of Paradise.

I saw /Omar Khayyam/ when it came out in 1957.

Well, I /think/ that was the one. Even Wikipedia doesn't have a plot
summary adequate to link it to the Hashishim. IMDb focuses on the
romance, and Maltin dimisses it as "childishly idiotic" (since was 10
at the time, that means it was made for me).

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2025-01-11 12:28:59 UTC

Â Â Â Â Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
Â Â Â Â My you are a fearful pessimist.
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the
nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the
Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn

This is incorrect. The moment Putin reaches for the button, his head will
be served up to the Brussels Nobility by his brutuses. They want nothing
more than get their toys back in europe. If putin were to reach for the
button, they see a lifetime of isolation and starvation, so they will kill
him quickly, apologize, and install a new leader.

Putin knows this, which is why his position is getting weaker and wearker
every day.

First it was monetary support that was going to lead to nuclear war, then
it was tanks, then it was planes, now I think it is long range missiles
and troops of the ground.

Putins threats are hollow, and slowly the politicians will realize this,
and then the war will be ended quickly.

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:30:51 UTC

     Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
     Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
     But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
     Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
     bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch

Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear weapon
exchanges.
Lynn

    Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
    My you are a fearful pessimist.
        bliss

Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the
nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the
Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn

This is incorrect. The moment Putin reaches for the button, his head will
be served up to the Brussels Nobility by his brutuses. They want nothing
more than get their toys back in europe. If putin were to reach for the
button, they see a lifetime of isolation and starvation, so they will kill
him quickly, apologize, and install a new leader.
Putin knows this, which is why his position is getting weaker and wearker
every day.
First it was monetary support that was going to lead to nuclear war, then
it was tanks, then it was planes, now I think it is long range missiles
and troops of the ground.
Putins threats are hollow, and slowly the politicians will realize this,
and then the war will be ended quickly.

Hitler wasn't all that easy to kill, even by the military.

NATO troops on the ground might best be avoided, as might missiles
launched outside of Ukraine.

People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2025-01-11 23:46:29 UTC

Post by Paul S Person

Post by D
This is incorrect. The moment Putin reaches for the button, his head will
be served up to the Brussels Nobility by his brutuses. They want nothing
more than get their toys back in europe. If putin were to reach for the
button, they see a lifetime of isolation and starvation, so they will kill
him quickly, apologize, and install a new leader.
Putin knows this, which is why his position is getting weaker and wearker
every day.
First it was monetary support that was going to lead to nuclear war, then
it was tanks, then it was planes, now I think it is long range missiles
and troops of the ground.
Putins threats are hollow, and slowly the politicians will realize this,
and then the war will be ended quickly.

Hitler wasn't all that easy to kill, even by the military.
NATO troops on the ground might best be avoided, as might missiles
launched outside of Ukraine.
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.

Paul S Person

2025-01-12 16:53:20 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.

I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-12 17:02:11 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

Post by Paul S Person
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 17:04:55 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.

Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning
up in the laundry.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-12 17:39:45 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.

Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning
up in the laundry.
--scott

"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.

bliss

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-12 18:00:04 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.

Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning
up in the laundry.
--scott

"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.

IIRC, further authorization. It's a small case POTUS keeps on his
person, which, when needed, will be opened by breaking in half.
It contains a number of authorization codes, only one of which
is the real one. POTUS knows which one. I think this is used to
activate the football.

This means that simply having access to the football isn't
enough to start WW3. You also have to have access to the
biscuit, AND know which code is the real one.

pt

2025-01-12 19:05:55 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

Post by Paul S Person
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.

Maybe. I would be surprised however, if the US process, also does not
involve numerous steps and numerous people along the way.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 00:08:15 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Hitler wasn't all that easy to kill, even by the military.

It's true. His own generals failed to kill him at close range, even.
I believe Putin survived a similar attack.

Post by Paul S Person
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.

Yes, this is the main worry. Random panic and thrashing out, though,
loses wars. I have seen that at close hand a couple times now.
It can make a real mess in the process, though, and Vietnam is still
recovering from chemical defoliants.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Paul S Person

2025-01-10 17:33:04 UTC

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Post by Lynn McGuire
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.

Huh.

I thought of you as a patriotic American.

Not as a fan of Putin.

And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?

I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-11 02:07:56 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

Didn't they already do that last one?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:32:27 UTC

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:07:56 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Mad Hamish
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

Didn't they already do that last one?

That may be why I thought of it. Then again, maybe it wasn't his
/favorite/ dacha, just one of the others. If there are others.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-11 19:21:28 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:07:56 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Mad Hamish
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

Didn't they already do that last one?

That may be why I thought of it. Then again, maybe it wasn't his
/favorite/ dacha, just one of the others. If there are others.

I'm waiting for the Ukraine to decide they can spare a missile or
two for Putin's $1 billion palace on the Black Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin%27s_Palace

pt

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-11 19:37:39 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:07:56 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Mad Hamish
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

Didn't they already do that last one?

That may be why I thought of it. Then again, maybe it wasn't his
/favorite/ dacha, just one of the others. If there are others.

Oh, I'm sure he has plenty of dachas still.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

2025-01-11 12:36:40 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>

Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?

This is a correct statement!

Post by Mad Hamish
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?

Science has proven that in order to do this, they would have to steal or
destroy Putins favourite teddy bear named Boris. Only then might there be
a tiny risk.

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-10 03:32:03 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

But, here we are.

pt

Scott Lurndal

2025-01-10 14:47:56 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
Â Â https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.Â Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine.Â Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it
in Atlantic.
Lynn

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-10 15:39:55 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-10 16:23:44 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.

I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.

We're getting close:

The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.

Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.

Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.

It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.

We need to keep the pressure up.

pt

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 16:38:07 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.
pt

Hear! Hear!

bliss

Paul S Person

2025-01-10 17:38:44 UTC

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:23:44 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip Lynn as Putin Stooge, but the topic now changes>

Post by Cryptoengineer
I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.

Initially, at least, he tried to keep the Russians pliable by only
drafting other nationalities, and using North Koreans fits into that
scenario quite well.

Post by Cryptoengineer
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.

But ... but ... but ... Trump is a Friend of Putin.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-10 18:19:21 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:23:44 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<snip Lynn as Putin Stooge, but the topic now changes>

Initially, at least, he tried to keep the Russians pliable by only
drafting other nationalities, and using North Koreans fits into that
scenario quite well.

Post by Cryptoengineer
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.

But ... but ... but ... Trump is a Friend of Putin.

What we *need* to do, and what we *will* do are
different things.

pt

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:34:09 UTC

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 13:19:21 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:23:44 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<snip Lynn as Putin Stooge, but the topic now changes>

Initially, at least, he tried to keep the Russians pliable by only
drafting other nationalities, and using North Koreans fits into that
scenario quite well.

Post by Cryptoengineer
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.

But ... but ... but ... Trump is a Friend of Putin.

What we *need* to do, and what we *will* do are
different things.

You mean, "what the USA *needs* to do, and what Trump *will* do are
two different things". But that doesn't invalidate your statement,
merely clarifies it for those who don't think Trump is actually part
of the "we".

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-10 21:43:42 UTC

On 1/10/2025 10:23 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
...

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 22:50:30 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.
Lynn

Where do you buy your factoids? They seem stale.

bliss

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-11 01:45:05 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.
Lynn

Get the number right. Russia has under 6000 nuclear weapons, not 14,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_stockpiles_and_nuclear_tests_by_country

While 6000 nukes can certainly give you a Bad Day, I point it out to
show you that you need to update your knowledge of the situation.
You're working from assumptions that are simply out of date.

According to their own published nuclear doctrine, even as recently
amended, an internal collapse of Russia would not lead to nuclear
attacks on other countries, and almost certainly not within the country
either. Putin and the other Russian leadership are venal, cruel,
corrupt, and hold the Russian masses in contempt, but they aren't
stupid or insane. They don't want to shit where they eat, and use of
nukes would enshittify everything.

Russia has twice before collapsed in the aftermath of an economically
draining war, during WW1, and the Cold War. It looks like the pattern
is repeating.

I'd like to see Russia break up, similarly to how Yugoslavia did, though
preferably without the genocidal civil war. Only then will it cease
to present a threat to the West.

Muskovia delenda est.

pt

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-11 02:09:21 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.

We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually work.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 02:15:25 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.

We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually work.

Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.

Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-11 19:39:59 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.

We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually work.

Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).

Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 00:13:59 UTC

Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ?Â The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).

Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.

More interestingly, the US doesn't actually let the military control
nuclear weapons outright. They are mostly maintained by the DOE, a
civilian organization. It's part of that checks and balances thing.

The Russian army has not had a good history of maintenance on the whole.
In the Soviet era the Army had their own special fastener threads to keep
people from stealing nuts and bolts off military gear for personal use.
But then, the Navy also had their own special system, to keep the Army
from stealing nuts and bolts off of Navy equipment... and we thought
interservice rivalry in America was bad.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Paul S Person

2025-01-12 16:57:11 UTC

Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).

Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.

More interestingly, the US doesn't actually let the military control
nuclear weapons outright. They are mostly maintained by the DOE, a
civilian organization. It's part of that checks and balances thing.
The Russian army has not had a good history of maintenance on the whole.
In the Soviet era the Army had their own special fastener threads to keep
people from stealing nuts and bolts off military gear for personal use.
But then, the Navy also had their own special system, to keep the Army
from stealing nuts and bolts off of Navy equipment... and we thought
interservice rivalry in America was bad.

I once heard a story that a Saudi Arabian AA unit once fired on Saudi
Arabian aircraft flying over them because the planes were flown by
members of a different tribe, with which the AA crew's tribe had a
feud.

Weird things happen, and not just outside the USA.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Scott Lurndal

2025-01-12 16:33:54 UTC

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well.Â Not.

We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually work.

Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ?Â The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).

Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.

We also have something called the National Ignition Facility, to aid
in stockpile maintenance.

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:39:34 UTC

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:43:42 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.

And that, I take it, is today's official Putin/Trump Talking Point
(PTTP).

You do realize that nobody with a brain pays any attention to these
things at all, right? Except to ridicule them, as the other responders
do.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2025-01-11 12:34:13 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it.Â Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum for
some time now.

I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.

This is the truth! Ideally russian will be split up into a western part,
from europe to the urals, and any nr of defanged dirka-dirka-stans, that
can do what ever they please as long as they don't have any largers guns.

I believe, once the war is won and Putin defeated, that this will happen.
Russia will have depleted its financial and military reserves, and
numerous dirka-dirka-stans will see this as a great opportunity to break
away, and making themselves rich (the leaders that is).

The west will be anxious to keep the western part, and a pro-west leader
will be installed after talks between the oligarchs and the major western
powers.

Post by Cryptoengineer
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.

This is incorrect. We need to _increase_ the pressure now that we are
getting close to the end! I believe the war can be finished within 2-3
years!

Post by Cryptoengineer
pt

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 16:36:46 UTC

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia.
Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.

What Mr.McGuire seems to miss is that Hitler started WW II
with similar moves. Trump echoes Hitler with his demand for nations
to yield national sovereignty as with Panama, Mexico, Canada and
Denmark with Greenland. He unlike Putin who tried to sneak up on
take the Ukraine without formal notice of annexations and who
calls it a "Special Military Operation" instead of a war.
Of course I was a civilian child during WW II and just
knew what was broadcast and when I learned to read it took me
years to get back to paying attention to WW II. It was over by
then and Japan our West Coast bugaboo was recovering thanks to
the Korean War.

bliss - hobbling along.

2025-01-11 12:35:28 UTC

Post by Bobbie Sellers

I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.

Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it.Â Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.

He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum for
some time now.

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik

According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
What Mr.McGuire seems to miss is that Hitler started WW II
with similar moves. Trump echoes Hitler with his demand for nations
to yield national sovereignty as with Panama, Mexico, Canada and
Denmark with Greenland. He unlike Putin who tried to sneak up on
take the Ukraine without formal notice of annexations and who
calls it a "Special Military Operation" instead of a war.
Of course I was a civilian child during WW II and just
knew what was broadcast and when I learned to read it took me
years to get back to paying attention to WW II. It was over by
then and Japan our West Coast bugaboo was recovering thanks to
the Korean War.
bliss - hobbling along.

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:45:48 UTC

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia.
Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.

This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.

Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-11 19:14:18 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

Don't tell a Finn that, if you value your health.
Besides, genetic and linguistic evidence would suggest otherwise.

pt

Paul S Person

2025-01-12 17:06:16 UTC

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 14:14:18 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

Don't tell a Finn that, if you value your health.
Besides, genetic and linguistic evidence would suggest otherwise.

Yes, well, theories are like that. If it were certain, it wouldn't be
a theory.

And, Swede or Finn, that would make their Slavic language something
they adopted along the way.

And, of course, just because the /nobility/ wasn't Slavic doesn't mean
the people they governed were not.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-12 02:23:31 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

This is very interesting. Do you have any links or more information? In
terms of siberian folk religions, I have a theory that the religions and
customs of the early vikings at some point crossed with the siberian
folk religions. This is not proven, but I would not be surprised if
there's been some influence back and forth between the two.

Post by Paul S Person
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.

I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have
renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then
we can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.

Post by Paul S Person
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

Finns? Very interesting. How did you get that connection? I thought the
finns and the hungarians, and to a certain extent, the estonians where
off by themselves in a corner doing their thing.

Post by Paul S Person
[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.

Scandanavian Vikings penetrated far into what is now Russia, sailing
up rivers, and protaging between them. They even got down to the
Black Sea, and Constantinople, as attested by multiple runic
graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.

While the 'Rus' name *may* be cognate with a Norse word for 'red',
they don't seem to have affected Slavic culture much. However,
Wikipedia says:

"According to the Primary Chronicle, the word Rus' is derived from the
Rus' people, who were a Swedish tribe, and where the three original
members of the Rurikid dynasty came from.[34] The Finnish word for
Swedes, ruotsi, has the same origin.[35] Later archeological studies
mostly confirmed this theory.[36]"

pt

2025-01-12 11:43:26 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

Â Â Â Â Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia.
Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

This is very interesting. Do you have any links or more information? In
terms of siberian folk religions, I have a theory that the religions and
customs of the early vikings at some point crossed with the siberian folk
religions. This is not proven, but I would not be surprised if there's been
some influence back and forth between the two.

Post by Paul S Person
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.

I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have
renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then we
can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.

Post by Paul S Person
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

Finns? Very interesting. How did you get that connection? I thought the
finns and the hungarians, and to a certain extent, the estonians where off
by themselves in a corner doing their thing.

Post by Paul S Person
[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.

Scandanavian Vikings penetrated far into what is now Russia, sailing
up rivers, and protaging between them. They even got down to the
Black Sea, and Constantinople, as attested by multiple runic
graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.
While the 'Rus' name *may* be cognate with a Norse word for 'red',
they don't seem to have affected Slavic culture much. However,
"According to the Primary Chronicle, the word Rus' is derived from the
Rus' people, who were a Swedish tribe, and where the three original
members of the Rurikid dynasty came from.[34] The Finnish word for
Swedes, ruotsi, has the same origin.[35] Later archeological studies
mostly confirmed this theory.[36]"
pt

Interesting. The region where I have my summer house is called Roslagen.
It has excellent river/lake access out to the baltic sea in many places.

Paul S Person

2025-01-12 17:29:33 UTC

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:23:31 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snippo -- topic is Russian origins>

Post by Cryptoengineer
Scandanavian Vikings penetrated far into what is now Russia, sailing
up rivers, and protaging between them. They even got down to the
Black Sea, and Constantinople, as attested by multiple runic
graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.

The Varangian Guard was mostly Scandinavian.

IIRC, there were also trade connections. Imagine a trade route from
Sweden to Constantinople through Russia (or just West of Russia) with
outposts, immigrants, settlers ...

There was a movie about this that I saw when I was young, but I don't
recall the name offhand.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Paul S Person

2025-01-12 17:19:43 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe.
Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]

This is very interesting. Do you have any links or more information? In
terms of siberian folk religions, I have a theory that the religions and
customs of the early vikings at some point crossed with the siberian folk
religions. This is not proven, but I would not be surprised if there's
been some influence back and forth between the two.

The Siberians concerned were mostly a lot further to the East. But
anything is possible.

Post by Paul S Person
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.

I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have
renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then we
can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.

And yet it appears that Lukashenko is opposed to Belarus becoming part
of Russia. And Bing shows the Russian for "Sweden" transcribed as
"shvetsiya" (and in Belarusian). Which I suggest is as close to
"sverige" as you are likely to get.

The Russian for "german", OTOH, is "nemetsky". When I took Russian
Basic, we were told this meant ("dumb" -- not as in "stupid", but as
in "mute") because German was the first non-Slavic language they
encountered. If you were thinking their term for "Sweden" was
insulting, you may have been thinking of their term for "german".

Post by Paul S Person
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.

Finns? Very interesting. How did you get that connection? I thought the
finns and the hungarians, and to a certain extent, the estonians where off
by themselves in a corner doing their thing.

More specifically, a Finnish tribe. But clearly, if they were, they
changed their language to something slavic. And this was only a
theory, possibly long discredited.

Post by Paul S Person
[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-10 18:32:21 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.

So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.

Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.

In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.

So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Lurndal

2025-01-10 18:46:34 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

And Turkey. Don't forget Turkey - they seriously embarrassed the Russians
in the late 19th century by not allowing the Tsar to take Constantinople
and control the Bosphorus.

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-10 21:46:49 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.

Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-10 23:02:37 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how weak
this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine.
And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

` He will only do what we allow him to do.

First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.

You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.

Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?

If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.

Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.

bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 00:14:47 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine.
And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
    First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
    You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
    Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
    If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
    Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
    bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-11 00:36:29 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I hope there are plenty of people who believe
the capacity to mount a strong attackl is the best
defense.
We have investing billion or even trillions
of dollars in war machinery and it had better work
as the contractors who collected the profits stated
or we will be very unhappy.

You seem to be the sort of America First pacifist
who rallied with the German-American Bund in the 1930s
at venues such as Madison Square Garden.
A shopkeeper who will not raise a hand in
the defense of the nation as the NAZIs advised the
Japanese in the 1930s.

Shame on you.
bliss

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 02:16:16 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

    I hope there are plenty of people who believe
the capacity to mount a strong attackl is the best
defense.
    We have investing billion or even trillions
of dollars in war machinery and it had better work
as the contractors who collected the profits stated
or we will be very unhappy.
    You seem to be the sort of America First pacifist
who rallied with the German-American Bund in the 1930s
at venues such as Madison Square Garden.
    A shopkeeper who will not raise a hand in
the defense of the nation as the NAZIs advised the
Japanese in the 1930s.
    Shame on you.
    bliss

*PLONK*

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-11 04:56:30 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a
terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

     I hope there are plenty of people who believe
the capacity to mount a strong attackl is the best
defense.
     We have investing billion or even trillions
of dollars in war machinery and it had better work
as the contractors who collected the profits stated
or we will be very unhappy.
     You seem to be the sort of America First pacifist
who rallied with the German-American Bund in the 1930s
at venues such as Madison Square Garden.
     A shopkeeper who will not raise a hand in
the defense of the nation as the NAZIs advised the
Japanese in the 1930s.
     Shame on you.
     bliss

*PLONK*

Well keep on posting and I will keep on commenting
on your postings whenever I see a good reason to retute your
opinions It will only be so that young folk do not come
along and take your half-truths for sensiblity.
Obviously it does not move you toward sanity and
facts or other sensible people would have done so.
I would rather post about SF in any event but
right now I cannot get to the SFPL for the most recent
outrages on sense and science.

bliss

Titus G

2025-01-11 04:20:57 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

Shock! Horror!
I agree with Dimwire.

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-11 01:53:52 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.

This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.

pt

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 04:50:02 UTC

On 1/10/2025 7:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
...

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt

Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have
already sent my son to war twice. The first time he came back to us
severely damaged (double concussion, wouldn't let him come home for a
month until his eyes start focusing) but better than four of his buddies
who did not come back. One of his buddies died right next to him and
the Iraqi turncoat turned the AK on my son but had run out of bullets so
my son shot him ten times with his pistol. The second time he came back
in fairly good shape even though his platoon were bodyguards to the US
Marine Colonel of their battalion and driving him all over western Iraq
for a year trying to keep a civil war from starting.

My son is now 41 and a noncommisioned officer (corporal). He spent 8
years in the Corps (4 active, 4 reserve) and is subject to callup until
he is 46. He figures that he will be an instructor if he gets called up
but we never expected him to get sent to 100 yards away from Syria and
constantly fighting gun and mortar battles with them from Iraq. To this
day he cannot go to a fireworks display and it has been 18 years.

Lynn

2025-01-11 13:19:22 UTC

...

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt

Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have already
sent my son to war twice. The first time he came back to us severely damaged
(double concussion, wouldn't let him come home for a month until his eyes
start focusing) but better than four of his buddies who did not come back.
One of his buddies died right next to him and the Iraqi turncoat turned the
AK on my son but had run out of bullets so my son shot him ten times with his
pistol. The second time he came back in fairly good shape even though his
platoon were bodyguards to the US Marine Colonel of their battalion and
driving him all over western Iraq for a year trying to keep a civil war from
starting.
My son is now 41 and a noncommisioned officer (corporal). He spent 8 years
in the Corps (4 active, 4 reserve) and is subject to callup until he is 46.
He figures that he will be an instructor if he gets called up but we never
expected him to get sent to 100 yards away from Syria and constantly fighting
gun and mortar battles with them from Iraq. To this day he cannot go to a
fireworks display and it has been 18 years.
Lynn

I'm sorry to hear that. Was he drafted? =(

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 20:11:26 UTC

...

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt

Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have
already sent my son to war twice. The first time he came back to us
severely damaged (double concussion, wouldn't let him come home for a
month until his eyes start focusing) but better than four of his
buddies who did not come back. One of his buddies died right next to
him and the Iraqi turncoat turned the AK on my son but had run out of
bullets so my son shot him ten times with his pistol. The second time
he came back in fairly good shape even though his platoon were
bodyguards to the US Marine Colonel of their battalion and driving him
all over western Iraq for a year trying to keep a civil war from
starting.
My son is now 41 and a noncommisioned officer (corporal). He spent 8
years in the Corps (4 active, 4 reserve) and is subject to callup
until he is 46. He figures that he will be an instructor if he gets
called up but we never expected him to get sent to 100 yards away from
Syria and constantly fighting gun and mortar battles with them from
Iraq. To this day he cannot go to a fireworks display and it has been
18 years.
Lynn

I'm sorry to hear that. Was he drafted? =(

Volunteer for the US Marine Corps. The USA has not had a draft since
1973 or so.

Lynn

Cryptoengineer

2025-01-11 16:31:17 UTC

...

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt

Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have
already sent my son to war twice. The first time he came back to us
severely damaged (double concussion, wouldn't let him come home for a
month until his eyes start focusing) but better than four of his buddies
who did not come back. One of his buddies died right next to him and
the Iraqi turncoat turned the AK on my son but had run out of bullets so
my son shot him ten times with his pistol. The second time he came back
in fairly good shape even though his platoon were bodyguards to the US
Marine Colonel of their battalion and driving him all over western Iraq
for a year trying to keep a civil war from starting.
My son is now 41 and a noncommisioned officer (corporal). He spent 8
years in the Corps (4 active, 4 reserve) and is subject to callup until
he is 46. He figures that he will be an instructor if he gets called up
but we never expected him to get sent to 100 yards away from Syria and
constantly fighting gun and mortar battles with them from Iraq. To this
day he cannot go to a fireworks display and it has been 18 years.

I thank you for his service, and understand how it informs your
attitude.

But again, I call your attention to the Munich Agreement and Neville
Chamberlain. The circumstances are remarkably parallel. Appeasement
didn't work then, and it wont work now.

Any ceasefire would be used by Russia to re-arm, and in 4-8 years
they'll just attack again, as they did after seizing Crimea. At
that point your grandchildren might get called up.

pt

Scott Lurndal

2025-01-12 16:31:22 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt

Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have
already sent my son to war twice.

Thanks to your buddy GWB. It wasn't necessary or required to invade
Iraq over some made up nuclear danger, but you were cheering him on.

And Peter didn't advocate going to war; economic damage in Russia
will likely do the job of taking putin down eventually.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 17:01:34 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal
Thanks to your buddy GWB. It wasn't necessary or required to invade
Iraq over some made up nuclear danger, but you were cheering him on.

I'd blame Chaney and Rumsfeld much more, even though GWB really was very
enthusiastic about it. It confused the hell out of the generals and the
intelligence community, all of whom thought we were fighting Bin Laden
when they all had to do a complete turnaround and start fighting our ally.
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.

Post by Scott Lurndal
And Peter didn't advocate going to war; economic damage in Russia
will likely do the job of taking putin down eventually.

Russians are used to total economic failure, though. It takes a lot.
In the meantime all kinds of things could happen.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

2025-01-11 12:43:05 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine.Â And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland?Â When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire.Â Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible job
Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union.Â (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.)Â Putin talks about how weak
this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger.Â The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO.Â We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia.Â He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`Â Â Â He will only do what we allow him to do.
Â Â Â Â First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Â Â Â Â You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
Â Â Â Â Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
Â Â Â Â If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Â Â Â Â Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
Â Â Â Â bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not
end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise,
allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.

We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will
be well.

Doing nothing will end in ww3.

Paul S Person

2025-01-11 17:55:46 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not
end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise,
allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will
be well.

Sadly, WWII showed that winning WWI did not produce a world in which
"all will be well" was a realistic expectation.

It is /eternal/ vigilance which is the price of liberty.

Post by D
Doing nothing will end in ww3.

Indeed it will, but we are not doing nothing. Trump may do nothing,
but he is not us.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2025-01-11 23:46:48 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>

Post by Lynn McGuire
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not
end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise,
allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will
be well.

Sadly, WWII showed that winning WWI did not produce a world in which
"all will be well" was a realistic expectation.

Well, isn't the war in Ukraine called the war that will end all wars? =/

Post by Paul S Person
It is /eternal/ vigilance which is the price of liberty.

This is the correct statement!

Post by Paul S Person

Post by D
Doing nothing will end in ww3.

Indeed it will, but we are not doing nothing. Trump may do nothing,
but he is not us.

Trump, as our lord and saviour, will surprise us very positively in the
end. Of this I am sure. Now that he is elected, he does no longer have to
give the impression of being weird, in order to get weirdoes to vote for
him. Now he can just grab Putin by the pussy.

Lynn McGuire

2025-01-11 20:18:26 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did
not end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted.
Likewise, allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all
will be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.

The USA has been in constant war since WWII. Several of my uncles and
my wife's uncles fought in Korea and Vietnam. One of my cousins was in
the Army in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My
son fought in Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on
their own. There will be more wars coming after this one.

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2025-01-11 21:39:46 UTC

Post by Dimensional Traveler
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.

Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a
terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott

Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn

`    He will only do what we allow him to do.
     First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
     You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
     Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
     If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
     Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
     bliss - hobble on, hobble on.

There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did
not end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted.
Likewise, allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all
will be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.

Lynn echoes the 1930s when Linberg the Aviation hero led
the American First movement and allied with German-American Bund
to praise Fascist Germany and to say let Europe deal with its
own problems. Did not work out well then and it will not work
out well now if we let Putin have his agressive way.

Yes the USA entering on the World Stage has been rough but not
so rough except in some families that have suffered greatly. Yours is
one of those families and their casualities are horrific. But this
nation started with a war and has continued to fight even against the
Slavers of the South and the North. It stole most of the continent
from the Original Occupants by war. It feared the German Empire so
it very late joined WW I and then it was attacked in WW II by the
Japanese and beat them horrifically. No war no South Korea. We should
have stayed out of Vietnam but visions of profit motivated the USA,
not as a nation but as the powerful industrialists dreamed.
In the Afganistan business we were attacked and went after
the terrorists. In Iraq war I we were saving a trading partner but
in Iraq War II we were again motivated by profit and revenge with
a health dose of misunderstanding the idiot dictator.

We already have a war in Europe. Mr.Putin of Russia so degreed
it. Your advice is to let Putin take over the rest of the European
Continent and let our trading partners and suffer under whatever
regime Putin prefers. If your advice had been followed in 1941 we
would all be speaking German or Japanese. See Philip Dick's work
"The Man in the High Castle" and several other authors have dealt
with the outcome if we had been in truth a nation of shopkeepers.

You are happy with your sales in Europe it seems.

Will your sales to Europe under Putin decline? Or will he just
declare your copyrights void and let his software engineers play
with it. I bet they are already at this if he has not been so
foolish as to draft them.

Here are some interesting URLs I just dredged up.

<https://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/05/08/alternative-histories-on-ve-day-5-works-that-imagine-the-nazis-winning>

<https://www.young-diplomats.com/germany-japan-won-world-war-ii/>

bliss - hobble on...

2025-01-11 23:41:04 UTC

Lynn

This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not
end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise,
allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will
be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.

The USA has been in constant war since WWII. Several of my uncles and my
wife's uncles fought in Korea and Vietnam. One of my cousins was in the Army
in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in
Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There
will be more wars coming after this one.

It might sound strange, but I actually understand this point of view 100%, and
that is why I would not, and cannot criticize the US if it decides to drop
ukraine. I would of course be sad, and I do not think it would make for a safer
world, in fact, I think it will make for a much worse conflict further down the
line that the US will be pulled into, but... I do understand that the US cannot
play world police forever, and I think it is 100% true that the EU should start
to take responsibility itself, instead of riding on the US.

Lynn

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-12 15:45:37 UTC

in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in
Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There
will be more wars coming after this one.

I completely understand that point of view, and I think a number of the
wars that we have been in, such as Vietnam or the second Gulf War, were
gone into for the wrong reasons and started by America. Even a person
who supports war in general should not be able to support wars like that.

But... I also think this particular war can head off future wars. I don't
like it. I don't think it should ever have started but I also think that
diplomats on both sides did as much as they possibly could to prevent it.
I also think that the US has done a very good job of walking the line to
help finance the Ukranian defense without sending US troops. But I agree
that there have been too many wars amounting in the end to too much nothing.

There are people who say there will be no long-term effect of the Ukranian
invasion, that Putin will soon die and Russia will fall apart for a while
and have to be sewn back up by someone new, and that in that process
Ukraine has a better chance of escapsing than it does today. Maybe that is
correct, and waiting would have been a better thing to do. But the war
got started and now they're stuck in it, and Putin just becomes more angry
and resentful every day, listening less to his generals every day.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Dimensional Traveler

2025-01-12 17:05:39 UTC

in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in
Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There
will be more wars coming after this one.

I have to disagree with that last line. One side did their best to
prevent it without effectively surrendering their sovereignty. The
other side demanded surrender and invaded without warning.

Post by Scott Dorsey
I also think that the US has done a very good job of walking the line to
help finance the Ukranian defense without sending US troops. But I agree
that there have been too many wars amounting in the end to too much nothing.
There are people who say there will be no long-term effect of the Ukranian
invasion, that Putin will soon die and Russia will fall apart for a while
and have to be sewn back up by someone new, and that in that process
Ukraine has a better chance of escapsing than it does today. Maybe that is
correct, and waiting would have been a better thing to do. But the war
got started and now they're stuck in it, and Putin just becomes more angry
and resentful every day, listening less to his generals every day.
--scott

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

2025-01-12 19:00:11 UTC

Post by Scott Dorsey
got started and now they're stuck in it, and Putin just becomes more angry
and resentful every day, listening less to his generals every day.
--scott

I hope so. The crazier he gets, and the less he listens to people who know what
they are talking about, hopefully, the quicker the war will end.

Scott Dorsey

2025-01-11 23:50:19 UTC