Discussion:
For self publishing authors on AmazonKDP, Scott Adams Says
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2024-10-03 20:22:40 UTC
Permalink
Scott Adams Says:

“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”

“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”

“So I lit them up on X.”

“Problem solved.”

“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”

That is not a good production model.

Lynn
Paul S Person
2024-10-04 15:47:19 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.

They have flooded the moat. They have released the piranha and the
crocodiles. The have drawn up the drawbridge. They are unassailable.
They have no customer complaints other than those they have thought of
themselves.

They can also be dispensed with any time they manage to do something
they /did/ not anticipate which is serious enough.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
William Hyde
2024-10-04 18:22:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.

Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.


I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.

But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.

William Hyde
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-10-04 18:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Cryptoengineer
2024-10-05 00:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book

https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8

'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.

I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.

pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-10-05 02:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book
https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
the UK (which I have no experience with):

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jerry Brown
2024-10-05 07:20:25 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Cryptoengineer
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
I'm in the UK and born in the sixties. I recall my parents saying it
took months for the phone to be installed.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Robert Carnegie
2024-10-12 10:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book
https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
I see the article is from 2001, when telephones
and most other services in the UK except for
medicine were purely private by then.

In 2024, private public drains are somehow
removing great quantities of money from us,
and what they are supposed to remove, not
so much.
Paul S Person
2024-10-12 16:44:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:56:32 +0100, Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book
https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
I see the article is from 2001, when telephones
and most other services in the UK except for
medicine were purely private by then.
In 2024, private public drains are somehow
removing great quantities of money from us,
and what they are supposed to remove, not
so much.
Perhaps an investigation of who's cousin got the contract would be in
order.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
William Hyde
2024-10-12 17:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:56:32 +0100, Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book
https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
I see the article is from 2001, when telephones
and most other services in the UK except for
medicine were purely private by then.
In 2024, private public drains are somehow
removing great quantities of money from us,
and what they are supposed to remove, not
so much.
Perhaps an investigation of who's cousin got the contract would be in
order.
The great investor Peter Lynch, who ran the Magellan fund for over a
decade with a 22% average annual return, had a saying:

"If the Queen's selling, I'm buying".

The public assets sold under Thatcher were vastly under-priced. Most of
the water company stocks doubled in a year, far too short a time for
"efficient" private sector management to increase value to such a degree.

Thus the companies tended to attract those keen on share appreciation,
which is not always the same thing as running the company well.
"Financial Engineering" can damage a company while temporarily inflating
the stock price. Dividends are a wonderful thing, if paid responsibly,
if not they can bring disaster as happened, for example, to Tuscon
electric power circa 1990 or Sears Canada more recently.

"Thames Water", one of the companies Robert is referring to above, was
debt free when it went private. It is now one of the most indebted
companies in the UK, and is asking for a 40% price increase to remain
solvent.

The company maintains that this debt was acquired in the process of
upgrading services, but the paper trail argues otherwise.

And my contacts in Thames Valley's area of service are unanimous in
saying they haven't seen any improvements in the company's performance,
rather the reverse.


William Hyde
Paul S Person
2024-10-13 15:18:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 13:37:53 -0400, William Hyde
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:56:32 +0100, Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
That's odd. This book
https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S-ebook/dp/B000RH0DU8
'Ciao America!" byu Beppe Severgnini (2002), written by an Italian
who spent a year in the US, has the exact opposite story - getting
a phone connected in Italy took month or years with the government
telco, while it blew him away that in the US, it was done in hours
by the non-government telephone company.
I grew up in Europe in the 60s and 70s. The sheer competency of the
Bell System was a wonder by comparison.
pt
Actually I found the essay, and it turns out the guy was talking about
https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-uses-of-corruption
I see the article is from 2001, when telephones
and most other services in the UK except for
medicine were purely private by then.
In 2024, private public drains are somehow
removing great quantities of money from us,
and what they are supposed to remove, not
so much.
Perhaps an investigation of who's cousin got the contract would be in
order.
The great investor Peter Lynch, who ran the Magellan fund for over a
"If the Queen's selling, I'm buying".
The public assets sold under Thatcher were vastly under-priced. Most of
the water company stocks doubled in a year, far too short a time for
"efficient" private sector management to increase value to such a degree.
Thus the companies tended to attract those keen on share appreciation,
which is not always the same thing as running the company well.
"Financial Engineering" can damage a company while temporarily inflating
the stock price. Dividends are a wonderful thing, if paid responsibly,
if not they can bring disaster as happened, for example, to Tuscon
electric power circa 1990 or Sears Canada more recently.
"Thames Water", one of the companies Robert is referring to above, was
debt free when it went private. It is now one of the most indebted
companies in the UK, and is asking for a 40% price increase to remain
solvent.
The company maintains that this debt was acquired in the process of
upgrading services, but the paper trail argues otherwise.
And my contacts in Thames Valley's area of service are unanimous in
saying they haven't seen any improvements in the company's performance,
rather the reverse.
In the old days (note that I do not say they were "good"), this might
have called for tar, feathers, and a rail.

Today perhaps a massive lawsuit would be worth trying. Or
re-nationalization.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Paul S Person
2024-10-05 16:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
With the most recent supreme court ruling, bribes are on their
way back....
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scope-of-anti-bribery-law/
Or it will require prosecutors to demonstrate the Quid that matches
the Quo. Such as a prior agreement between the parties.

To put another way, they took a stand against the semantic goo being
used to extend and blur the definition of bribery.

And, BTW, shouldn't this really have been treated as a Kickback? Or
has the semantic goo already turned that into Bribery?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Paul S Person
2024-10-05 16:54:17 UTC
Permalink
On 4 Oct 2024 18:53:33 GMT, ***@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:

<snippo>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
My brother, who was stationed in Sicily for a while when he was in the
Navy, reported a story: an American sailor stationed in Sicily "on the
economy" kept getting really large electric bills. So, after dark one
evening, he threw the master switch on his breaker box.

All the streetlights on his block went out.

The relevant Italian organization was out the next day rewiring those
streetlights.

Is this true? Who can say? I don't doubt my brother heard the story,
but that doesn't mean it really happened.

Then again, when my Mother, having visited my brother in Sicily first,
tried to call my number in Germany, the employee who had to dial the
number (ah! Europe in the late 70s/early 80s!) refused to do so
because it had "too many numbers". It was rather long and it didn't
get any shorter when the various prefixes needed because it came from
Italy were applied. (She called when she was in-country, so we did get
together.)
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Robert Carnegie
2024-10-12 11:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
<snippo>
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
My brother, who was stationed in Sicily for a while when he was in the
Navy, reported a story: an American sailor stationed in Sicily "on the
economy" kept getting really large electric bills. So, after dark one
evening, he threw the master switch on his breaker box.
All the streetlights on his block went out.
The relevant Italian organization was out the next day rewiring those
streetlights.
Is this true? Who can say? I don't doubt my brother heard the story,
but that doesn't mean it really happened.
"Bad electric wiring" stories are plausible.
Always, basically.

I expect that street lighting shouldn't run
on a private metered supply. Unless somehow
it's the responsibility of each house to
provide lighting. It isn't, where I am.

We do hear about municipalities saving on
their bill by fitting cheaper lighting or
by turning it off, but I don't know if that's
on a metered or an estimated supply.

On the other hand, it's also plausible that
someone's meter is illegally wired to one or
even all of the apartments in a building, or
even one or more adjacent buildings. I suppose
that if the someone isn't paying their own bill,
then they are more likely to be targeted,
as being not concerned about it.
Jay E. Morris
2024-10-13 00:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
On the other hand, it's also plausible that
someone's meter is illegally wired to one or
even all of the apartments in a building, or
even one or more adjacent buildings.  I suppose
that if the someone isn't paying their own bill,
then they are more likely to be targeted,
as being not concerned about it.
California man discovers he's paid his neighbor's electricity bill for
up to 18 years

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-man-discovers-paid-neighbors-electricity-bill-18/story?id=113850973
Robert Carnegie
2024-10-06 06:48:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
But at least it was capitalism! If that was a government operation,
surely I would have been shot and then sent to a concentration camp. Or
so I have been assured.
William Hyde
I recall an essay on corruption in Italy to the effect that yes, of course,
you had to pay a bribe to the state telephone company to get your phone
installed, but you *would* get your phone installed. In the US no govt
official would ever ask for a bribe, but conversely, your problem would
never be solved..
Where are the concentration camps? And where is
the government's telephone company? Just to
clarify the picture.
Mike Van Pelt
2024-10-05 03:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
I was offered two days off my bill. When I mentioned that I'd saved the
chat logs and was prepared to post them I was offered a lot more.
Ah. Good point. Save the chat logs. Good blackmail material.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Paul S Person
2024-10-05 16:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 15:22:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
“AmazonKDP reverses their disapproval”
“I had trouble with AmazonKDP (where independent publishers upload their
books to Amazon) because they kept rejecting the versions of Win Bigly
(2nd edition) in softcover and Kindle. No reasons given, canned
messages, no way to reach a human.”
“So I lit them up on X.”
“Problem solved.”
“My suggestion for all of you having trouble with tech support is to
first get a million followers on X. I'm not aware of any other solution
path.”
That is not a good production model.
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
I had a similar problem when I tried to restart my furnace in
September 2023. Similar in that I was "added to" an already full
service schedule for that day (Thursday) and the serviceperson never
came. The person I spoke to was very efficient at her job and the call
didn't take very long at all.

When I called back the next day (Friday) and she tried to do the same
thing, I told her that it wasn't /that/ cold yet (had it been working,
the furnace would have come on when the thermostat clicked over from
"night" to "day", done its thing, and stayed off all the rest of the
day and night until the next morning) and asked about Monday. Monday
was fine. The serviceman showed up at the start of the time frame
indicated.

Sometimes /not/ treating it as an emergency and getting on the
schedule before the schedule has already been filled works better. For
one thing, they are less likely to think they are doing you a favor by
trying to get to you ASAP instead of that they are simply doing their
job.
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Yep, once you get people out to you, the problem is often solved quite
quickly.

Convincing the person you speak to that you /really do have a problem/
and not something that their list can fix is often the hard part.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Paul S Person
2024-10-05 16:45:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 21:59:55 -0700, Robert Woodward
(snip of somebody else's Amazon publishing problem)
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Several years ago, my cable modem lost its connection (BTW, the outlet
that my TV was connected to was still working). It didn't take me that
long for the Cable company to promise a technician (but not the next
day, for the day after that).
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Who showed up on time and, after a bit of investigation (maybe 30
minutes total), was able to isolate the problem and fixed it (I live in
a townhouse complex, my unit is in a building with 4 units - somebody
else in the building had activated their cable connection and the
installer disconnected one of my outlets, I think to get access to the
other unit's wiring, and didn't reconnect).
After my optic fiber was installed, Windows would occasionally, when
the Troubleshooter was run, tell me to check the LAN cable. I was
focused at that time on the WiFi problems, so I ignored it.

But eventually I decided to check the LAN cable. There was only one:
the one the installer installed between the modem and the gateway. I
found it was /loose at both ends/. Pushing both ends in until they
were secure did help a bit but, as I noted at the time (some years
ago) the actual solution to my problems lay elsewhere.

Professional installers who didn't know how to install a LAN cable.
They did, however, know how to configure the modem to connect me to my
ISP, which was, of course, the point of the exercise.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-10-05 17:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 21:59:55 -0700, Robert Woodward
(snip of somebody else's Amazon publishing problem)
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Several years ago, my cable modem lost its connection (BTW, the outlet
that my TV was connected to was still working). It didn't take me that
long for the Cable company to promise a technician (but not the next
day, for the day after that).
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Who showed up on time and, after a bit of investigation (maybe 30
minutes total), was able to isolate the problem and fixed it (I live in
a townhouse complex, my unit is in a building with 4 units - somebody
else in the building had activated their cable connection and the
installer disconnected one of my outlets, I think to get access to the
other unit's wiring, and didn't reconnect).
After my optic fiber was installed, Windows would occasionally, when
the Troubleshooter was run, tell me to check the LAN cable. I was
focused at that time on the WiFi problems, so I ignored it.
the one the installer installed between the modem and the gateway. I
found it was /loose at both ends/. Pushing both ends in until they
were secure did help a bit but, as I noted at the time (some years
ago) the actual solution to my problems lay elsewhere.
Professional installers who didn't know how to install a LAN cable.
They did, however, know how to configure the modem to connect me to my
ISP, which was, of course, the point of the exercise.
--
When I was first trying to install internet at our beach house, the only
option (without involving 6 other people) was Verizon. The first time
I tried I put in our number on the web page and was assured it was good
for DSL and they sent me the kit and it turned out, oops no, we were
beyond the distance from whatever limit.

Watited a year or so and tried again, this time they sent me the kit
and the modem installer was not a web page on the modem but a Windows
installation CD. I had no Windows PC so I loaded a laptop when I got
home and brougt that the next time I went to the beach. Oops, the installer
wanted more ram than I had! I diddled something in the system to make
it report more ram figuring OK, it will be slow, but so what. I then
spent the next 3 days tring to run the installation process to completion,
and it just wouldn't go, and had clearly been writen by idiots. Finally
I got to a point where an error message had a phone number, so I called
and said: Look, I'm not trying to do anything complex here. I don't care
about free virus scanning, or your portal or whatever, I'm just trying to
setup wifi so we & our renters can get online, and I've been working at
it three days!. The guy said: Yep, the installer is trash, really all it
is good for is getting you my number. He did some things on his side,
and 20 minutes later, I was good to go. (Mind you we were still *almost*
at the distance limit, so it was slow as molasses, but it was up & reliable).
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Paul S Person
2024-10-06 16:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 21:59:55 -0700, Robert Woodward
(snip of somebody else's Amazon publishing problem)
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Several years ago, my cable modem lost its connection (BTW, the outlet
that my TV was connected to was still working). It didn't take me that
long for the Cable company to promise a technician (but not the next
day, for the day after that).
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Who showed up on time and, after a bit of investigation (maybe 30
minutes total), was able to isolate the problem and fixed it (I live in
a townhouse complex, my unit is in a building with 4 units - somebody
else in the building had activated their cable connection and the
installer disconnected one of my outlets, I think to get access to the
other unit's wiring, and didn't reconnect).
After my optic fiber was installed, Windows would occasionally, when
the Troubleshooter was run, tell me to check the LAN cable. I was
focused at that time on the WiFi problems, so I ignored it.
the one the installer installed between the modem and the gateway. I
found it was /loose at both ends/. Pushing both ends in until they
were secure did help a bit but, as I noted at the time (some years
ago) the actual solution to my problems lay elsewhere.
Professional installers who didn't know how to install a LAN cable.
They did, however, know how to configure the modem to connect me to my
ISP, which was, of course, the point of the exercise.
--
When I was first trying to install internet at our beach house, the only
option (without involving 6 other people) was Verizon. The first time
I tried I put in our number on the web page and was assured it was good
for DSL and they sent me the kit and it turned out, oops no, we were
beyond the distance from whatever limit.
Watited a year or so and tried again, this time they sent me the kit
and the modem installer was not a web page on the modem but a Windows
installation CD. I had no Windows PC so I loaded a laptop when I got
home and brougt that the next time I went to the beach. Oops, the installer
wanted more ram than I had! I diddled something in the system to make
it report more ram figuring OK, it will be slow, but so what. I then
spent the next 3 days tring to run the installation process to completion,
and it just wouldn't go, and had clearly been writen by idiots. Finally
I got to a point where an error message had a phone number, so I called
and said: Look, I'm not trying to do anything complex here. I don't care
about free virus scanning, or your portal or whatever, I'm just trying to
setup wifi so we & our renters can get online, and I've been working at
it three days!. The guy said: Yep, the installer is trash, really all it
is good for is getting you my number. He did some things on his side,
and 20 minutes later, I was good to go. (Mind you we were still *almost*
at the distance limit, so it was slow as molasses, but it was up & reliable).
Unlike dial-up modems, and perhaps 5G or Starlink, DSL, cable, and
fibre optic all seem to require the ISP to do something on their end
to allow the connection to occur.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
William Hyde
2024-10-05 18:33:44 UTC
Permalink
(snip of somebody else's Amazon publishing problem)
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Several years ago, my cable modem lost its connection (BTW, the outlet
that my TV was connected to was still working). It didn't take me that
long for the Cable company to promise a technician (but not the next
day, for the day after that).
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Who showed up on time and, after a bit of investigation (maybe 30
minutes total), was able to isolate the problem and fixed it (I live in
a townhouse complex, my unit is in a building with 4 units - somebody
else in the building had activated their cable connection and the
installer disconnected one of my outlets, I think to get access to the
other unit's wiring, and didn't reconnect).
There are two major TV/phone/internet companies around here.

My previous company, Rogers, had excellent repair personnel who showed
up when they said they would, and fixed things. But Rogers's equipment
broke down with amazing frequency,

I switched to Bell, whose equipment has given me no trouble since that
installation, but whose repair people don't show up when they should.

I'm not big on corporate mergers, but if the resulting entity combined
he best of both ... but more likely it would use Bell's technical
support with Rogers' equipment.

What they both have in common is that they staff their help desks with
people trained to fix the top five likely problems (i.e. "is your box
plugged in?") and nothing else. If they face any other problem they
keep reiterating the five solutions they know, as they cannot consult a
superior given that they are mostly alone working from home.

But I should note that once in a while I actually contacted someone who
had read beyond the five problems, and could help. I learned that I had
to call Rogers three times on average to get such a person, and to cut
the others off rapidly because they *would* try all the things that
didn't work. Eagerly, in fact.


William Hyde
Jay E. Morris
2024-10-05 22:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
My previous company, Rogers, had excellent repair personnel who showed
up when they said they would, and fixed things.  But Rogers's equipment
broke down with amazing frequency,
Not cable or internet but the best tech support I ever got was for a
(IIRC) modem. I'd just purchased it and was have trouble getting it to
talk to the computer. Called tech support and got bumped to another
number. The manufacturer had just been bought out. The support person
for the new company apologized, saying that all the support documents
for the old company's products had not been distributed yet and were in
a locked cabinet. Then she said hold on. Came back in minutes and said
"had to find a screwdriver to break the lock. Now, what's the problem?"

That's support.
Paul S Person
2024-10-06 16:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hyde
(snip of somebody else's Amazon publishing problem)
Post by William Hyde
Post by Paul S Person
But pretty main-stream: my phone company not only has automated
screeners on both its help line and its chat sessions, both of which
are very good at not paying any attention at all to any problem they
were not programmed to recognize, but the phone system, the last time
I tried it, actually offered me the abilitiy to /text/ an assistor,
but not to /speak/ with one.
When the phone company installed a defective modem, I spent a total of
eleven hours over three days on chat with various human agents. They
passed my case from one to another, and all tried to repeat the failed
attempts of the previous agent. Whatever I said. Each night an
appointment was finally made for someone to drop by and look at the
modem. Three days in row, nobody showed up.
Several years ago, my cable modem lost its connection (BTW, the outlet
that my TV was connected to was still working). It didn't take me that
long for the Cable company to promise a technician (but not the next
day, for the day after that).
Post by William Hyde
Finally someone arrived on the fourth day, and he happened to have the
required modem in his truck. Fixed the problem in 20 minutes.
Who showed up on time and, after a bit of investigation (maybe 30
minutes total), was able to isolate the problem and fixed it (I live in
a townhouse complex, my unit is in a building with 4 units - somebody
else in the building had activated their cable connection and the
installer disconnected one of my outlets, I think to get access to the
other unit's wiring, and didn't reconnect).
There are two major TV/phone/internet companies around here.
My previous company, Rogers, had excellent repair personnel who showed
up when they said they would, and fixed things. But Rogers's equipment
broke down with amazing frequency,
When I was investigating -- well, I forget what, "portable hard
drives" perhaps -- I ran into a company that had, on its first screen,
a prominent button you could press if your device was being worked on
to see if and when you were likely to get it back.

This was so discouraging I gave up on the entire idea until I bought
my HP Envy desktop and found a portable 2TB USB3 drive at Office
Depot.

I don't know about anyone else, but my experience with Office Depot
has been that their prices may be higher than, say, Amazon, but they
don't sell junk. If they sell it, chances are that it will work and
work well.

Well, unless you drop it on the floor and crack the screen or
something, of course.
Post by William Hyde
I switched to Bell, whose equipment has given me no trouble since that
installation, but whose repair people don't show up when they should.
Most of my appointments for service (mainly the furnace, once a year)
are "will arrive between 8 and 12" or a similar four-hour window. My
appointment for the fiber optic installation was "between 8 AM and 5
PM").

In the Army in the 70s, this was actually called "the military
appointment system". "Hurry up and wait" was a description of military
life, not a joke.
Post by William Hyde
I'm not big on corporate mergers, but if the resulting entity combined
he best of both ... but more likely it would use Bell's technical
support with Rogers' equipment.
What they both have in common is that they staff their help desks with
people trained to fix the top five likely problems (i.e. "is your box
plugged in?") and nothing else. If they face any other problem they
keep reiterating the five solutions they know, as they cannot consult a
superior given that they are mostly alone working from home.
I don't try for a suupervisor. I try for a a tech support person (as
opposed to the customer service type you get at first). If possible, a
transfer; if necessary, a referral.

Note that the supervisor doesn't have to be in the assistor's home for
them to transfer the call. Calls are transferred over long distances
every day.
Post by William Hyde
But I should note that once in a while I actually contacted someone who
had read beyond the five problems, and could help. I learned that I had
to call Rogers three times on average to get such a person, and to cut
the others off rapidly because they *would* try all the things that
didn't work. Eagerly, in fact.
Well, the five things /work/ most of the time. They should have
something they can do when none of them work, however.

And of course they are eager. They are doing what they are supposed to
do. And someone may be listening!
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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