Discussion:
(Tears) Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
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James Nicoll
2024-03-24 12:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber

Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Robert Woodward
2024-03-24 16:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2024-03-24 17:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Michael F. Stemper
2024-03-24 17:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
That's who immediately came to my mind. It's not really fair in my case,
since, as far as I know, he's the only son of a famous author that I've
read.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?27552>
--
Michael F. Stemper
Deuteronomy 10:18-19
James Nicoll
2024-03-24 17:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
That's who immediately came to my mind. It's not really fair in my case,
since, as far as I know, he's the only son of a famous author that I've
read.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?27552>
There's Joe Hill but I've not read him. Heard good things about his
books, though.

I like Rothman's The World is Round.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Titus G
2024-03-29 05:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
That's who immediately came to my mind. It's not really fair in my case,
since, as far as I know, he's the only son of a famous author that I've
read.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?27552>
There's Joe Hill but I've not read him. Heard good things about his
books, though.
I read his NOS4A2 A Novel, which I classified as more of a Horror story
than Fantasy and although I finished it with a rating of 3 stars, I have
not sought more because Horror doesn't appeal. I remember reading
father's "It" decades ago but wouldn't enjoy that genre today though Joe
does have his own style.
Post by James Nicoll
I like Rothman's The World is Round.
Robert Woodward
2024-03-25 17:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
I haven't read any of the Pern continuations written by McCaffery's son
Todd. I have wondered how good/bad they are.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
James Nicoll
2024-03-25 17:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Probably a Brian Herbert novel.
I haven't read any of the Pern continuations written by McCaffery's son
Todd. I have wondered how good/bad they are.
No more unreadable than any late McCaffrey but also not any more readable.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Scott Dorsey
2024-03-24 17:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Are Dune novels off the table for this one?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
James Nicoll
2024-03-24 17:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Are Dune novels off the table for this one?
My 10th anniversary of the last fuck awful Dune book I'd ever have to read
went by in March, I think.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Cryptoengineer
2024-03-25 20:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Are Dune novels off the table for this one?
My 10th anniversary of the last fuck awful Dune book I'd ever have to read
went by in March, I think.
You're the skipping 'Heroes of Dune' tetrology, by Brian Herbert and
Kevin J. Anderson? Book 3, "Princess of Dune", came out last October,
and you have at least one more dose of duney Duness on the way.

pt
James Nicoll
2024-03-25 20:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Are Dune novels off the table for this one?
My 10th anniversary of the last fuck awful Dune book I'd ever have to read
went by in March, I think.
You're the skipping 'Heroes of Dune' tetrology, by Brian Herbert and
Kevin J. Anderson? Book 3, "Princess of Dune", came out last October,
and you have at least one more dose of duney Duness on the way.
Nobody is paying me to read them so I won't. I might turn down the
money if offered.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Scott Dorsey
2024-03-24 17:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Alexey Tolstoy doesn't count since even though he claimed to be the son of
the Count, he probably wasn't. And Pliny the Younger turns out only to be
the nephew of Pliny the Elder, not the son.

Dorothy Parker writes:
"Oh, I have worked and seldom cease
At Dumas pere and Dumas fils
Alas, I cannot make me care
For Dumas fils and Dumas pere."

which my father would recite when I was a kid using "Pernod fils and Pernod
pere." But personally I liked the son's work.

I never read anything by Charles Dickens Jr. and Victor Appleton Jr. was
likely the same team of ghostwriters as his father.

What about Martin Amis's work?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Ahasuerus
2024-03-24 19:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Alexey Tolstoy doesn't count since even though he claimed to be the son of
the Count, he probably wasn't. [snip]
I don't think it matters whether Alexey Tolstoy was Count Nikolai
Tolstoy's biological father. Nikolai didn't write fiction.
Scott Dorsey
2024-03-25 00:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahasuerus
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Robert Woodward
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
Alexey Tolstoy doesn't count since even though he claimed to be the son of
the Count, he probably wasn't. [snip]
I don't think it matters whether Alexey Tolstoy was Count Nikolai
Tolstoy's biological father. Nikolai didn't write fiction.
So many counts, so little time!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Lynn McGuire
2024-03-25 22:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-03-26 01:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lynn McGuire
2024-03-26 04:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
There were two books found after Heinlein's death. The first was
"Variable Star" which was unfinished, an early work, and Spider Robinson
finished it. It was published in 2006 I think.

The other book is "The Pursuit of the Pankera: A Parallel Novel About
Parallel Universes" which was completed before "The Number Of The Beast"
and put into Heinlein's things for some reason. It was found and
published in 2019. I have bought it but not read it yet as I am
thinking about how reread the books starting with "I Will Fear No Evil".
I read "The Number Of The Beast" back in 1983 or 1985.

https://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Pankera-Parallel-Novel-Universes/dp/1647100291/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Number_of_the_Beast_(novel)

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-03-26 05:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
There were two books found after Heinlein's death. The first was
"Variable Star" which was unfinished, an early work, and Spider Robinson
finished it. It was published in 2006 I think.
The other book is "The Pursuit of the Pankera: A Parallel Novel About
Parallel Universes" which was completed before "The Number Of The Beast"
and put into Heinlein's things for some reason. It was found and
published in 2019. I have bought it but not read it yet as I am
thinking about how reread the books starting with "I Will Fear No Evil".
I read "The Number Of The Beast" back in 1983 or 1985.
https://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Pankera-Parallel-Novel-Universes/dp/1647100291/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Number_of_the_Beast_(novel)
Lynn
*That* one I read:

====
The Pursuit of the Pankera: A Parallel Novel About Parallel Universes
by Robert A. Heinlein
https://amzn.to/2WCNafL

I read _The Number of the Beast_ back in the day. Honestly I don't
recall it all that well, but I know I found it underwhelming, with
some good parts, and then a lot of bickering about "lifeboat rules"
and "white mutinies" followed by an ending that didn't really address
the threat that was the impetus to the plot.

For some reason, while he was writing TNOTB, Heinlein was also
writing _The Pursuit of the Pankera_, using the same characters and
starting point while taking the story in a different direction.
Perhaps he was making a point about the Many Worlds theory, alternate
history and characters who more than half suspect they are fictional.
Again, for some reason, he decided not to publish _The Pursuit of
the Pankera_ after TNOTB. In general I would say he should have
done the opposite and kept TNOTB in the trunk. TPOTP is a much
more fun book, not as bogged down in blind alleys as Beast, and
spends more time in interesting places.

I am struck, as well, by something I totally missed when reading
The Number Of The Beast back in the day. Despite all the invocations
of Doc Smith, I somehow did not see that at least the first third
of the book is a recapitulation of Smith's _The Skylark of Space_
(the first space opera): Two bantering couples, a brilliant scientist
and man of action, a deadly menace and a wonderful new conveyance
to unimagined worlds. To take it even a bit further, Smith was to
some extent lampooning Burroughs, with his naked, martial Martians,
so that the Skylark's first destination "Osnome" is modeled on (and
sounds like) "Barsoom". In Pankera Heinlein goes to the original
but even has the Earth party do the doubletalk grandiose introductions
to the natives that Smith pioneered.

The book opens at a campus party where Zebadiah John Carter, a man
with many escapades in his past who nonetheless enjoys playing the
campus dilettante, quickly meets Deja Thoris Burroughs, the young
woman who will be his bride, her brilliant mathematician father
Jake, who has been desperately trying to get in touch with him, and
somebody who is trying to kill them all, including the party's
hostess, Hilda Corners, who unknown to Carter (or to her) is his
imminent mother-in-law.

Making a quick escape in Zeb's flying car (we are at some indefinite
point in the future), the foursome quickly tie the knots in whirlwind
courtships and go to ground to try and figure out what is going on.

What that is, is that apparently some nonhuman species has infested
the Earth and has it violently in for anybody with enough mathematical
talent to figure out where they came from, or how to escape. Jake
had, in fact, been seeking out Zeb under the assumption (for
complicated reasons) that he was also a brilliant mathematician.
He's not. But he *does* have the practical engineering skill to
adapt Seaton's (ah, I mean Burroughs's) discoveries into a
multiuniversal drive which will fit in _Gay Deceiver_, the
aforementioned flying car.

With that barely done, the foursome bugs out just in advance of a
nuclear strike on their bolt-hole and decides that Earth is no
longer safe. A few adjustments and misadventures behind them, they
find themselves at Mars in a parallel universe and decide to take
a rest stop.. To find themselves on Barsoom, hosted by Carthoris,
Thuvia and the original Dejah Thoris (the warlord, whom Zeb has put
out is his cousin is off on adventures). Of course trouble has a
way of following one (or four)...

Although Zeb is essentially the main character, the story is told
in alternating first person sections, narrated by each of Zeb,
Hilda, Deety & Jake. This works pretty well, though Deety has an
"I'm X, I am" tic that can be annoying, and each of the characters
is distinct.

This was a fun book, better, as I said, than "the original". My
main criticism would be that he still doesn't totally "stick" the
ending, though it is better than TNOTB. After a whole book of
pretty much "real time" adventures, we suddenly go into fast forward
mode where there are a bunch of kids we never get to know, and the
foursome go off on a genocidal tear (that is not a good look for
them), before getting it under control and deciding to actually
address the threat seriously. And we are just about to see that
happen (with a whole bunch of cast additions that we have our
suspicions about, but which said are never wholly addressed) when
the book ends. Granted we know that they are going to carry the
day, and all live through the battle, but it's a bit of an anti-climax,
and still never really addresses the underpinnings of the threat.

Also, be aware this is late period Heinlein, so you have ideas on
sexual liberation from a man born in 1907, and who has very firm
ideas on sex roles. Of course, I think he turned it up to 11 to
make some heads explode on purpose, but yeah, those heads are going
to explode. (Mine just hurt a bit).

As for the trunk-novel status of the book.. There were a few places
where there were some obvious needs for edits (one chapter was
almost 100% dialogue for instance, so that apparently Heinlein
forgot whose chapter it was and dropped into third person at one
point), and a few spots that could have used another draft (Carthoris
came across looking too naive at one point, for instance), but in
general this is well flowing, sure-footed Heinlein prose.

If you are asking yourself: Did Lazarus Long show up like he did
in TNOTB? The answer is.. maybe.

On the Late Heinlein scale, this is closer to _Friday_ than anything
else, so if you detest LH, you may still like this one. I did.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Cryptoengineer
2024-03-26 17:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting!  Somehow I never heard of that.  I'll put it on the wish
list.
There were two books found after Heinlein's death.  The first was
"Variable Star" which was unfinished, an early work, and Spider Robinson
finished it.  It was published in 2006 I think.
The other book is "The Pursuit of the Pankera: A Parallel Novel About
Parallel Universes" which was completed before "The Number Of The Beast"
and put into Heinlein's things for some reason.  It was found and
published in 2019.  I have bought it but not read it yet as I am
thinking about how reread the books starting with "I Will Fear No Evil".
 I read "The Number Of The Beast" back in 1983 or 1985.
https://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Pankera-Parallel-Novel-Universes/dp/1647100291/
and
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Number_of_the_Beast_(novel)
You're forgetting 'For Us, the Living', written in 1938, prior to his
first published work. It was literally found in a box in his garage
after his death.

pt
Jerry Brown
2024-03-26 17:51:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 23:56:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Lynn McGuire
There were two books found after Heinlein's death. The first was
"Variable Star" which was unfinished, an early work, and Spider Robinson
finished it. It was published in 2006 I think.
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.

I enjoyed it to a point, and kept forgetting when it was written, so
was initally surprised that he didn't mention Sydney Opera House, then
realised it was then a couple of decades in the future.

I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.

There was at least one (for me) laugh out loud moment, when he
mentions that "Ticky" (Virginia H) was terrified of insects - with the
exception of butterflies which she regarded as "self-propelling
flowers",
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
John
2024-03-26 17:58:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.

The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.


john
Scott Dorsey
2024-03-27 13:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
Boswell and Johnson deserve credit for prior art in the snarky travel book
field.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Paul S Person
2024-03-27 16:15:12 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Cryptoengineer
2024-03-27 23:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.

I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.

pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-03-28 01:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
Loading Image...
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Scott Lurndal
2024-03-28 14:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
Cryptoengineer
2024-03-28 15:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
my wife will like too.

Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.

Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.

pt
Scott Lurndal
2024-03-28 16:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
my wife will like too.
Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.
Yes, those are nice. I assume you've been to Carmel and Monterey,
but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?
Filoli? Villa Montalvo?

Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?

Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?

Eureka and Ferndale (there's a redwood tree you can drive through).

You've probably visited the Livermore Labs professionally?

Highway 49 through gold country?

Tahoe.
Cryptoengineer
2024-03-28 23:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:58:24 +0000, John
Post by John
Post by Jerry Brown
There's also the non-fiction "Tramp Royale" in which RAH pioneers the
slightly snarky travel book decades before the likes of Bill Bryson
and his successors.
I guess you could say he pioneered the slightly snarky travel book, but
only because Mark Twain pioneered the *extremely* snarky travel book in
the previous century.
The title "Tramp Royale" may even be a wink to "A Tramp Abroad"
Post by Jerry Brown
I could have done without the final chapter in which he advises the
reader that they might as well travel the USA as its sights are better
than anything the rest of the world could offer.
A deeply Heinlein attitude, although I agree that some Americans have a
weird tendency to not view it as a "real" vacation unless an ocean was
crossed.
I came to the conclusion that "visiting the relatives" and "real
vacation" were not the same thing (except, of course, in my family) --
but I didn't think you had to cross an ocean to have a real vacation.
I've long used the term 'oblication' to describe the trips you Must Take
even if you'd rather go somewhere new.
I've been to Silicon Valley to visit my mother more times than I can
remember, and my wife and I have pretty well run out of sites to visit.
I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
my wife will like too.
Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.
Yes, those are nice. I assume you've been to Carmel and Monterey,
Yes and Yes.
Post by Scott Lurndal
but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?
Nope.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Filoli? Villa Montalvo?
My mom used to be a docent at Filoli, so yes, but not Montalvo
Post by Scott Lurndal
Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?
No, but I've been up close with SF-71s in NYC and DC. I've also
been to the Hiller Air Museum and Moffet Field.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?
I'll look into it. Overnights are a lot rarer than day trips.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Eureka and Ferndale (there's a redwood tree you can drive through).
Yes, to all 3.
Post by Scott Lurndal
You've probably visited the Livermore Labs professionally?
Actually no. There were public tours, but they have not been
restarted since the pandemic.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Highway 49 through gold country?
Yes.
Post by Scott Lurndal
Tahoe.
Probably too far.

Others we liked: Pt Reyes, Bolinas, Muir Woods, Big Basin
(worth seeing the near-alien regrowth since the fire),
Santa Cruz (scraping the bottom of the barrel, we even
went to The Mystery Spot, which was surprisingly fun).
Alice's Restaurant and the Skyline Drive, Buck's in
Woodside, the coastal highway up to Half Moon Bay, the
beaches on that stretch, Boulder Creek. Botanical
Gardens in Santa Cruz and Stanford. Santa Barbara,
Ventura (was eating in a Black Bear there when
'Ventura Highway' came on the radio).

In SF, Exploratorium, Zoo, Disney Museum, California
Academy of Sciences, Japanese Tea Garden SF Botanical
Garden, de Young, Chinatown, Tiki Room, Fisherman's Wharf,
Twin Peaks, Presido, Golden Gate Bridge, Coit Tower,
and all the usual tourist stuff.

pt
Scott Lurndal
2024-03-29 14:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
I've lived there for three decades and still haven't visited
every site of interest within a 180 minute drive.
Different interests, probably. I have to limit myself to things that
my wife will like too.
Next trip, I'm going to try to squeeze in a visit to the Stanford
Linear Accelerator. Tours are on a pretty limited schedule.
Best excursions have been overnights to Yosemite and Mt Shasta.
but how about Fort Bragg or Avila Beach? Or Pinnacles?
Nope.
Fort Bragg is worth an overnight. Pinnacles in the
late summer can be a bit warm.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Filoli? Villa Montalvo?
My mom used to be a docent at Filoli, so yes, but not Montalvo
Some nice hiking at Montalvo. They used to have a summer concert
series - seeing Etta James on the lawn was one of the best shows
I've ever seen.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Castle airpark museum (SR-71 and a RAF Vulcan are highlights)?
No, but I've been up close with SF-71s in NYC and DC. I've also
been to the Hiller Air Museum and Moffet Field.
The most notable aircraft at Castle is the B-36, there are only
two in existance (the other is in Dayton).
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Northeastern California (Alturas, in the great basin high desert)?
I'll look into it. Overnights are a lot rarer than day trips.
When I did that trip a few years ago, I spent the first night
in Oroville and explored the reservoir area (more nice hiking);
this was just after they had repaired the emergency spillway.

From there, take highway 70 across the sierra (a few tunnels
from the 1930s) - this again was just after the Camp fire
which affected the northern side of CA70. Beautiful drive,
nonetheless. US395 to Alturas - a flat high plain surrounded
by mountains. Spent another night there. Then CA299 west
through the scenic territory to Redding (If you haven't taken
the Shasta Dam tour, it's an interesting tour through the
center of the dam). Fall River Mills is a pretty town.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Tahoe.
Probably too far.
Nevada City/Grass valley is a bit closer and a pretty area.

Rent a ski chalet in Bear Valley in the summertime - some
nice alpine lakes in the area.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Others we liked: Pt Reyes, Bolinas, Muir Woods, Big Basin
I hiked Big Basin regularly before the fire. A beautiful
place, indeed (just watch for the banana slugs).
Post by Cryptoengineer
(worth seeing the near-alien regrowth since the fire),
Santa Cruz (scraping the bottom of the barrel, we even
went to The Mystery Spot, which was surprisingly fun).
Haven't done that yet.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Alice's Restaurant and the Skyline Drive,
Yup. Not the one in the song, however.

Castle Rock.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Buck's in
Woodside, the coastal highway up to Half Moon Bay, the
beaches on that stretch,
Elephant Seals.

Sunset State beach is 30 minutes from where I live, and
I visit at least once a week. Capitola is a pretty
town on the bay, Nicene Marks state park in the redwoods.
Post by Cryptoengineer
Boulder Creek.
Have you explored Bonny Doon to find the home that RAH built?
Post by Cryptoengineer
Botanical
Gardens in Santa Cruz and Stanford. Santa Barbara,
Big Sur, Hearst Mansion, Morro Bay, Solvang, Vandenburg.

Scott Dorsey
2024-03-27 13:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
I wasn't impressed by it at all, but I think it's worth reading just for
completeness.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
James Nicoll
2024-03-27 13:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Woodward
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
So what was the worst novel written by a son of a famous author that you
have read?
I enjoyed the Heinlein book that Spider Robinson finished, "Variable Star".
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Star-Tor-Science-Fiction/dp/0765351684/
Interesting! Somehow I never heard of that. I'll put it on the wish list.
I wasn't impressed by it at all, but I think it's worth reading just for
completeness.
Unsurprisingly, I've read it. Readers are probably best advised to
go into it expecting a Spider Robinson book, not a Heinlein.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
John Savard
2024-03-25 12:59:13 UTC
Permalink
The LORD is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me to lie down in green pastures: He leads me beside the
still waters.
He restores my soul: He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His
Name's sake.
Yes, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I will fear no evil,

for You are with me.
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies:
You anoint my head with oil; my cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Few novels have sources of inspiration that are quite so obvious.

The character walks though the valley of the shadow of death, and yet
comes out of it alive, but in a body with the wrong sex.

Ah, well; Heinlein is a good place to take inspiration from.

John Savard
John Savard
2024-03-25 14:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
Also, Amazon.ca did indeed try to spell check Justin Lieber to Justin
Bieber. But it's easy to get past that.

However, the results for the right name didn't include this book, even
though the entry for it

https://www.amazon.ca/Beyond-Rejection-Justin-Leiber/dp/B000FMIA7S/

did have the right author's name.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2024-03-25 18:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Beyond Rejection (Beyond, volume 1) by Justin Leiber
Revived in the body of a mind-wiped woman, Ishmael Forth is challenged
to adapt to new circumstances. But first, a two-fisted interstellar
adventure!
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/also-there-are-moby-dick-references
Also, Amazon.ca did indeed try to spell check Justin Lieber to Justin
Bieber. But it's easy to get past that.
However, the results for the right name didn't include this book, even
though the entry for it
https://www.amazon.ca/Beyond-Rejection-Justin-Leiber/dp/B000FMIA7S/
did have the right author's name.
The SFF family spelling is "LEIBER". It catches
out a lot of readers.

And while I'm picking: James's article says
"Ismael" throughout for the protagonist's name -
when they aren't going by Patricia - and that
seems to be agreed on. But in the teaser here,
it's Ishmael.

Yes, the /title/ of the review is, "Also, There
Are Moby Dick References".

This doesn't appear to be a line from a song.
Did those stop and I didn't notice?
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