“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT ‘Rewriting Of History’”

[Lynn McGuire]

“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history

““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”

"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."

"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"

"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"

Incredibly sad.

Lynn

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Lynn McGuire
“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-
on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"
"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"
Incredibly sad.
Lynn

Speaking out for girls and women but not transgender girls to say
nothing of Transgender men and boys. Transgender women can speak
for themselves. She and Janciee Raymond got the wrong idea about the
whole matter. TG Activists can do a lot of damage because their is
No ideology of Tansgender. Read the anciect60s tome by Harry
Benjamin "The TransSexual Phenomenon". Spelling is inventive.

The children are speaking of their experience and their
parents are listening. no surgery can yet change anyone from
male to female or female to male. It can make people more
comfortable in their bodies.

As far as I know no one is doing transgender surgery on
children under the age of consent. No school is taking children
and switching their gender before they go home as the great
satan called Trump has claimed.
One of the prominent books banned "Gender Queer" is a
beautiful graphic novel with the art done by the subject/s own
sister. It is about `er experience, not very sexual and worth
the read. That is just my humble opinion but others concur.
I read mine by request of the San Francisco Public
Library which had to borrow it from another system. That is
the funniest thing i ever heard of. SF is not TG heaven but
closer than Amarillo, Tx. So finding that SF had to go
elsewhere for the volume makes me giddy at the oversight.

bliss

[Paul S Person]

On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:12:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"
"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"
Incredibly sad.

As I have noted, wingnuts exist on /all/ sides.

What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:12:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire
“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"
"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"
Incredibly sad.

As I have noted, wingnuts exist on /all/ sides.

They certainly do. On the other hand Rowling casts
doubt on their humanity and questions the existence of the
transgender condition. Many very good writers have held
retrograde views of the rest of humanity. Creatures of the
times when the color or lack of color of skin meant more
than the character of the person wearing that skin and
those who believe that women are only accessories to men.

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

I doubt me very much that there are enough transgender
athletes to form two teams whether of transgender women or men.
Transgender people are around 0.01% of the total population. I
know one who is 88 and she is not seeking to be athletic as
much as to simply stay alive and active.
Also people who are unsympathetic to transgender issues
simply have never known a person who is transgender, as used to
be the case with LBGTQ+ people. Delaware elected a transgender
woman to the Congress whereupon one MAGA woman began to make an
issue around this post-operative transgender persons use of the
appropriate toilets in the building. You know that post-operative
means that the Gender Reassignment Surgery has been completed and
there is no threatening penis nor any of the external male anatomy.

Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

A lot of the transgender student athletes seeking to
participate are prepubertal which means that the bones and muscles
have not gone the changes from youthful to adult physique. This
obviates one of the arguments made by Rowlings and other TERF
advocates about strength. The arguments have been confused by
the very rare intersexual athletes who won some competitions at
the highest level with perhaps no knowledge of their own
conditions.
I recently finished reading an old book, Matt Ridley's
"Genome". I learned a bit about older genetic research which
included mention of a condition in which a female genome would
result in the formation of a more or less complete but perhaps
sterile male body. Genome is a fair read of what sort of stuff
had been learned before the turn of the century.

And nanobots are active!
Nanorobot hand made of DNA grabs viruses for diagnostics and
blocks cell entry...
<https://phys.org/news/2024-11-nanorobot-dna-viruses-diagnostics-blocks.html>
When they trick it out with the tools to repair DNA we
will have SF made real.


bliss - hobbling along

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.

Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies). Nobody complained. Nobody was
arrested. Nobody tried to make it illegal.

Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.

Much ado about nothing. Speak out in public, expect criticism.

Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.

OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

[BCFD 36]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies). Nobody complained. Nobody was
arrested. Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.

No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing. Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I have no idea what the hormone therapy a trans female takes does to the
muscle mass and strength she formerly possessed as a male.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies). Nobody complained. Nobody was
arrested. Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing. Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies). Nobody complained. Nobody was
arrested. Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing. Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)

Lynn

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.

bliss

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

    Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.
    bliss

There's a more recent, and much more relevant example.

Ann Andres is a Canadian transwoman who competes in powerlifting.
Powerlifting is scored by the total weight lifted a the Squat
Bench Press, and Deadlift.

She transitioned fully 20 years ago. She doesn't have any
more testosterone than an average woman, and has been that
way for a long time.

At the August 2023 CPU Western Canadian Championship, her combined
weight lifted was 597.5 kg. The second place SuJan Gill, lifted
387.5 kg. Ann set a new Canadian Woman's record (for her weight
class). At that match, she outlifted the second place contender by 54%.

For the top weight class, The male powerlift record is 1042 kg,
and the female 599 kg. Ann isn't in the top weight class, but
came close to beating the Woman's World Record.

https://fitnessvolt.com/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-multiple-womens-national-world-record/

In some sports, if you let transwomen compete against
biological women, then only transwomen would be left at the top.

Going through puberty with male hormones creates changes to a
person's skeleton that will last them the rest of their life,
even if the hormones are removed.

Unlike some others here, I'm happy to let transwomen and
transmen do their thing. It doesn't hurt or threaten me.

But in certain areas, transwomen are simply not on a
level playing field with biological women, and I don't
think they should compete with them.

pt

[Mad Hamish]

Apologies if this doesn't show up in the thread for people, I had to
change the subject line due to an invalid character error

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 22:49:04 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

    Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.
    bliss

There's a more recent, and much more relevant example.
Ann Andres is a Canadian transwoman who competes in powerlifting.
Powerlifting is scored by the total weight lifted a the Squat
Bench Press, and Deadlift.
She transitioned fully 20 years ago. She doesn't have any
more testosterone than an average woman, and has been that
way for a long time.
At the August 2023 CPU Western Canadian Championship, her combined
weight lifted was 597.5 kg. The second place SuJan Gill, lifted
387.5 kg. Ann set a new Canadian Woman's record (for her weight
class). At that match, she outlifted the second place contender by 54%.

https://www.openpowerlifting.org/m/cpu/2023-08-10
gives the results of all the competitors in the competition
Filtering it by the weight class and competion (Masters 1, 40-49 age
group) there were 3 competitors.
So dominating 2 other competitors isn't that unusual
According to online discussion of the competition
1 of the other competitors was in their 3rd powerlifting event ever,
another had a hip replacement in the 12 months before the competition
and had a strongwoman competition the next weekend so was splitting
their training

So it doesn't look overly worrysome that one of 3 competitors wallops
the other 2 in that situation

In the 2023 Canadian championships she finished 3rd with a total of
565kg, 97kg lower than the winner and 60kg below the runner up

https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/nat_records.php?age=Open&gender=Women&style=Classic&active=Yes
gives the Canadian powerlifting records and Anne doesn't have any of
them, Brittany Schlater set them all this year

https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/rankings.php
shows that by total weight lifted Anne's best is the 7th best effort
in Canadian competition, 110kg below the highest total

So the idea that she's dominant and definitely has an unfair advantage
seems pretty hard to defend based on winning a provincial masters
competition with 2 other competitors.

Post by Cryptoengineer
For the top weight class, The male powerlift record is 1042 kg,
and the female 599 kg. Ann isn't in the top weight class, but
came close to beating the Woman's World Record.

The international powerlifting site links to the world records at
https://goodlift.info/records.php?fd=0&ac=0&sx=W&eq=1
it gives the top weight category as 84kg+in women's competition and
120kg+ in men's

The world women's total record lift for teh 84kg+ category is 731kg,
set in 1996
in comparison the 63-69kg world record is 600kg, which is equal to
Anne's top lift when she weighed in at 116.69kg

when Anne Andres competed in the 2023 CPU Western Canadian
Championship she weighed in at 117.38 kg, so she was in the top weight
categoy in women's competition (and not much below the top weight
category in men's competion)

Post by Cryptoengineer
https://fitnessvolt.com/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-multiple-womens-national-world-record/
In some sports, if you let transwomen compete against
biological women, then only transwomen would be left at the top.

your evidence to support that claim is somebody dominated an age
restricted provincial event

The complete list of Olympic medals won by trans women after 20 years
of being allowed to compete


wanna see it again?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Going through puberty with male hormones creates changes to a
person's skeleton that will last them the rest of their life,
even if the hormones are removed.

got actual research that backs that up?
Because there's army research that shows that the drop in performance
after hormone treatement is more than the average gap between men and
women

and again, if there is such an advantage why haven't trans women won
any olympic medals in the 20 years they've been able to compete?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Unlike some others here, I'm happy to let transwomen and
transmen do their thing. It doesn't hurt or threaten me.
But in certain areas, transwomen are simply not on a
level playing field with biological women, and I don't
think they should compete with them.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mad Hamish
Apologies if this doesn't show up in the thread for people, I had to
change the subject line due to an invalid character error
On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 22:49:04 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

    Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.
    bliss

There's a more recent, and much more relevant example.
Ann Andres is a Canadian transwoman who competes in powerlifting.
Powerlifting is scored by the total weight lifted a the Squat
Bench Press, and Deadlift.
She transitioned fully 20 years ago. She doesn't have any
more testosterone than an average woman, and has been that
way for a long time.
At the August 2023 CPU Western Canadian Championship, her combined
weight lifted was 597.5 kg. The second place SuJan Gill, lifted
387.5 kg. Ann set a new Canadian Woman's record (for her weight
class). At that match, she outlifted the second place contender by 54%.

https://www.openpowerlifting.org/m/cpu/2023-08-10
gives the results of all the competitors in the competition
Filtering it by the weight class and competion (Masters 1, 40-49 age
group) there were 3 competitors.
So dominating 2 other competitors isn't that unusual
According to online discussion of the competition
1 of the other competitors was in their 3rd powerlifting event ever,
another had a hip replacement in the 12 months before the competition
and had a strongwoman competition the next weekend so was splitting
their training
So it doesn't look overly worrysome that one of 3 competitors wallops
the other 2 in that situation
In the 2023 Canadian championships she finished 3rd with a total of
565kg, 97kg lower than the winner and 60kg below the runner up
https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/nat_records.php?age=Open&gender=Women&style=Classic&active=Yes
gives the Canadian powerlifting records and Anne doesn't have any of
them, Brittany Schlater set them all this year
https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/rankings.php
shows that by total weight lifted Anne's best is the 7th best effort
in Canadian competition, 110kg below the highest total
So the idea that she's dominant and definitely has an unfair advantage
seems pretty hard to defend based on winning a provincial masters
competition with 2 other competitors.

Post by Cryptoengineer
For the top weight class, The male powerlift record is 1042 kg,
and the female 599 kg. Ann isn't in the top weight class, but
came close to beating the Woman's World Record.

The international powerlifting site links to the world records at
https://goodlift.info/records.php?fd=0&ac=0&sx=W&eq=1
it gives the top weight category as 84kg+in women's competition and
120kg+ in men's
The world women's total record lift for teh 84kg+ category is 731kg,
set in 1996
in comparison the 63-69kg world record is 600kg, which is equal to
Anne's top lift when she weighed in at 116.69kg
when Anne Andres competed in the 2023 CPU Western Canadian
Championship she weighed in at 117.38 kg, so she was in the top weight
categoy in women's competition (and not much below the top weight
category in men's competion)

Post by Cryptoengineer
https://fitnessvolt.com/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-multiple-womens-national-world-record/
In some sports, if you let transwomen compete against
biological women, then only transwomen would be left at the top.

your evidence to support that claim is somebody dominated an age
restricted provincial event
The complete list of Olympic medals won by trans women after 20 years
of being allowed to compete
wanna see it again?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Going through puberty with male hormones creates changes to a
person's skeleton that will last them the rest of their life,
even if the hormones are removed.

got actual research that backs that up?
Because there's army research that shows that the drop in performance
after hormone treatement is more than the average gap between men and
women
and again, if there is such an advantage why haven't trans women won
any olympic medals in the 20 years they've been able to compete?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Unlike some others here, I'm happy to let transwomen and
transmen do their thing. It doesn't hurt or threaten me.
But in certain areas, transwomen are simply not on a
level playing field with biological women, and I don't
think they should compete with them.

Don't you think that depends on individuals, the
motivation that they have for athletic achievement and
training. Further we must to take into account the limits
of the individual's transgender feelings.

Dr.Bemjamin rated feeling on a scale of 0-10. At 0 is your
person who is totaly unconscious of any desire to be of the
opposite gender and at the other end the Transsexual who endures
quite a bit of pain, is neutered and lives a quiet life in
as a woman or man. I know of one happily married who with her
husband raised an adopted infant to a grown employed University
graduate.
I have also known at least one paranoid schizophrenic
who decided that her problems would be cured by Gender Reassignment
Surgery killed her self a week or so later when her problems
did not automagically go away. And others who did not realize
that if what the results of the surgery might be and were very
unhappy but went on to work in their chosen field.

Most of that experience with transgender individuals is
from my more mobile past before 1984 when my problem began to
manifest itself. Now-a-day the falling off the Right Wing people
talk about a Transgender Agenda. 40 years ago the transgender
kids I talked to had one agenda which was to get enough money
to survive on. If they had hope of doing that on a regular
basis they saved and scrimped until they might have enough
money for desired procedures such as hormone replacement
therapy and a suite of plastic surgeries. Those that had
no hope got into alcohol and drugs which are a form of
living death. Some who had the money made serious mistakes.

bliss - hobbling slowly today.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Mad Hamish
Apologies if this doesn't show up in the thread for people, I had to
change the subject line due to an invalid character error
On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 22:49:04 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

    Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.
    bliss

There's a more recent, and much more relevant example.
Ann Andres is a Canadian transwoman who competes in powerlifting.
Powerlifting is scored by the total weight lifted a the Squat
Bench Press, and Deadlift.
She transitioned fully 20 years ago. She doesn't have any
more testosterone than an average woman, and has been that
way for a long time.
At the August 2023 CPU Western Canadian Championship, her combined
weight lifted was 597.5 kg. The second place SuJan Gill, lifted
387.5 kg. Ann set a new Canadian Woman's record (for her weight
class). At that match, she outlifted the second place contender by 54%.

https://www.openpowerlifting.org/m/cpu/2023-08-10
gives the results of all the competitors in the competition
Filtering it by the weight class and competion (Masters 1, 40-49 age
group) there were 3 competitors.
So dominating 2 other competitors isn't that unusual
According to online discussion of the competition
1 of the other competitors was in their 3rd powerlifting event ever,
another had a hip replacement in the 12 months before the competition
and had a strongwoman competition the next weekend so was splitting
their training
So it doesn't look overly worrysome that one of 3 competitors wallops
the other 2 in that situation
In the 2023 Canadian championships she finished 3rd with a total of
565kg, 97kg lower than the winner and 60kg below the runner up
https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/nat_records.php?age=Open&gender=Women&style=Classic&active=Yes
gives the Canadian powerlifting records and Anne doesn't have any of
them, Brittany Schlater set them all this year
https://www.powerlifting.ca/lifter_database/external/rankings.php
shows that by total weight lifted Anne's best is the 7th best effort
in Canadian competition, 110kg below the highest total
So the idea that she's dominant and definitely has an unfair advantage
seems pretty hard to defend based on winning a provincial masters
competition with 2 other competitors.

Post by Cryptoengineer
For the top weight class, The male powerlift record is 1042 kg,
and the female 599 kg. Ann isn't in the top weight class, but
came close to beating the Woman's World Record.

The international powerlifting site links to the world records at
https://goodlift.info/records.php?fd=0&ac=0&sx=W&eq=1
it gives the top weight category as 84kg+in women's competition and
120kg+ in men's
The world women's total record lift for teh 84kg+ category is 731kg,
set in 1996
in comparison the 63-69kg world record is 600kg, which is equal to
Anne's top lift when she weighed in at 116.69kg
when Anne Andres competed in the 2023 CPU Western Canadian
Championship she weighed in at 117.38 kg, so she was in the top weight
categoy in women's competition (and not much below the top weight
category in men's competion)

Post by Cryptoengineer
https://fitnessvolt.com/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-multiple-womens-national-world-record/
In some sports, if you let transwomen compete against
biological women, then only transwomen would be left at the top.

your evidence to support that claim is somebody dominated an age
restricted provincial event
The complete list of Olympic medals won by trans women after 20 years
of being allowed to compete
wanna see it again?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Going through puberty with male hormones creates changes to a
person's skeleton that will last them the rest of their life,
even if the hormones are removed.

got actual research that backs that up?
Because there's army research that shows that the drop in performance
after hormone treatement is more than the average gap between men and
women
and again, if there is such an advantage why haven't trans women won
any olympic medals in the 20 years they've been able to compete?

Post by Cryptoengineer
Unlike some others here, I'm happy to let transwomen and
transmen do their thing. It doesn't hurt or threaten me.
But in certain areas, transwomen are simply not on a
level playing field with biological women, and I don't
think they should compete with them.

Thanks. You've given me stuff to confirm, and think about.

pt

[Paul S Person]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 22:49:04 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.

I do remember the Billy Jean King match with Bobby Riggs.

Bobby Riggs was 26 years older than Billy Jean King so it was not an
even match.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)
Lynn

    Riggs took the chalenge under the impression that Billy Jean
would be easy to beat.
    bliss

There's a more recent, and much more relevant example.
Ann Andres is a Canadian transwoman who competes in powerlifting.
Powerlifting is scored by the total weight lifted a the Squat
Bench Press, and Deadlift.
She transitioned fully 20 years ago. She doesn't have any
more testosterone than an average woman, and has been that
way for a long time.
At the August 2023 CPU Western Canadian Championship, her combined
weight lifted was 597.5 kg. The second place SuJan Gill, lifted
387.5 kg. Ann set a new Canadian Woman's record (for her weight
class). At that match, she outlifted the second place contender by 54%.
For the top weight class, The male powerlift record is 1042 kg,
and the female 599 kg. Ann isn't in the top weight class, but
came close to beating the Woman's World Record.
https://fitnessvolt.com/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-multiple-womens-national-world-record/
In some sports, if you let transwomen compete against
biological women, then only transwomen would be left at the top.
Going through puberty with male hormones creates changes to a
person's skeleton that will last them the rest of their life,
even if the hormones are removed.
Unlike some others here, I'm happy to let transwomen and
transmen do their thing. It doesn't hurt or threaten me.
But in certain areas, transwomen are simply not on a
level playing field with biological women, and I don't
think they should compete with them.

Hence my suggestion that we let them compete ... with each other.

This would, of course, be more practical with individual sports than
with team sports.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.
I have no idea what the hormone therapy a trans female takes does to the
muscle mass and strength she formerly possessed as a male.

I don't have detailed knowledge either.
But I think that regulating sports participation
ought to be left to the agencies that regulate
sports participation. Along with figuring out
what the purpose of sport is anyway.

In some countries - including mine - sport
has been used to glorify the government of
the day, which claims that athletes' successes
are demonstrations of the value of the
government's policy. But presumably it's
good for other things.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports
stadiums e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a
whole line of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below
the Stanford stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.
I have no idea what the hormone therapy a trans female takes does to
the muscle mass and strength she formerly possessed as a male.

I don't have detailed knowledge either.
But I think that regulating sports participation
ought to be left to the agencies that regulate
sports participation.  Along with figuring out
what the purpose of sport is anyway.
In some countries - including mine - sport
has been used to glorify the government of
the day, which claims that athletes' successes
are demonstrations of the value of the
government's policy.  But presumably it's
good for other things.

Hormone replacement therapy:
For adults it slowly may reduce muscle
mass and strength though if well-nourished bones
may remain strong. Many were athletic and trained
for sport as a way of gaining acceptance in
the school or workplace.

The most serious transgender adults
go on to castration and vagina/vulva/plasty
surgeries as did Rene Richards the Tennis
player quite some years ago. She was not
top seeded before male or as a woman
after surgery.
Some will have bad reactions to the
castration in terms of loss muscle mass which
they do not mind but loss of muscle strength
and/or endurance is depressing.


The Purpose of sports competitions is Sports.
The purpose of sport is to harness
our human competitive energies and encourage
the young to excell at these physical
endeavors. Ancient rituals enacted over and
over again for fun. Do not think the American
version of Football is a good thing with all
those concussions.
We were a better nation when we all
preoccupied with Baseball or Basketball or
grades.

A healthy mind is not quite a healthy
body but it helps.

bliss - the hobbler was a nurse years and met
a few transgender people.

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:46:45 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by BCFD 36

Post by Scott Lurndal

    Actually a lot of statistics around the issue are simply
speculative as
are rumors of crimes done by Transgender people
in bathrooms belonging to any sex. Criminal men have been free
to enter women's toilets despite it being a crime.

Most of it is either political firewood (hatred/division) or
religious nutters pushing their vision of morality on the rest
of the country.
Back in the 80's, before they remodelled the facilities, one
would routinely find ladies in the men's room at the Hollywood
Bowl (just to avoid the hour-long lines for the few stalls
available in the ladies).  Nobody complained.  Nobody was
arrested.  Nobody tried to make it illegal.

I can remember seeing women in the restrooms of several sports stadiums
e.g. Stanford and Candlestick. I can also remember seeing a whole line
of men peeing under the railing and down the slope below the Stanford
stadium when there weren't enough restrooms.
No one seemed to care.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Unisex lavatories aren't uncommon in Europe and have been
for decades.
Much ado about nothing.  Speak out in public, expect criticism.
Doxing et. al. is illegal and abhorrent regardless of the target or the
reason behind it.
OTOH, verbal and written criticism should be expected when any
high-profile individual airs their opinion(s) on a controversial topic.

I don't think the debate about people with Y chromosomes competing
against XX people is over yet. Consider that Serena Williams (I think)
who was #1 in women's tennis said that the #200 man in men's tennis
would beat her.
I have no idea what the hormone therapy a trans female takes does to the
muscle mass and strength she formerly possessed as a male.

I don't have detailed knowledge either.
But I think that regulating sports participation
ought to be left to the agencies that regulate
sports participation. Along with figuring out
what the purpose of sport is anyway.
In some countries - including mine - sport
has been used to glorify the government of
the day, which claims that athletes' successes
are demonstrations of the value of the
government's policy. But presumably it's
good for other things.

Well, for school-aged persons, it /does/ help keep them off the
streets.

As Prof Hill put it in /The Music Man/: "Gotta keep the young ones
moral after school".

It also causes them to think about other things than current events,
thus quashing demonstrations before they begin.

And, because of the enforcement of rules, they are great at producing
conformity.

Other advantages (to those in charge) no doubt exist.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:12:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire
“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"
"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"
Incredibly sad.

As I have noted, wingnuts exist on /all/ sides.
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

I am wondering when a women's basketball team will be fielded with all
men claiming to be trans.

Lynn

[D]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:12:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

“JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
‘Rewriting Of History’”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
““Harry Potter” author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the “rewriting of history” about
transgender activists’ vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women.”
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their “unsparing criticism” of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"“The rewriting of history begins,” Rowling wrote. “Opponents of gender
ideology haven’t merely ‘endured unsparing criticism’. I haven’t simply
been told I ‘betrayed real feminism’ or received a few book-burning
videos.”"
"“I’ve been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence,” the
author outlined. “A trans woman posted my family’s home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman.”"
Incredibly sad.

As I have noted, wingnuts exist on /all/ sides.
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

I am wondering when a women's basketball team will be fielded with all men
claiming to be trans.
Lynn

With our king and lord Trump on the throne, this madness will soon stop!
In europe on the other hand, I expect all competitive sports to be banned
in the name of equality of outcome.

It has started among children, where football competitions are no longer
allowed to have a winner out of the fear of psychologically damaging the
children.

The sad part is that that is exactly what they are doing, and crippling
them for life.

As a teacher, and businesses owner, I see almost every day how weak gen Z
is and how unemployable they are. I've stopped employing them except in
exceptional cases, when I know I have a rockstar on my hands. Several of
my fellow businesses owners have adopted the same strategy.

It is better to let them go to the public sector, or to some anonymous
corporation for a few years to get exposed to life. After some years, the
ones who were too psychologically damaged become burned out and go on
welfare the rest of their lives, and _some_ (but sadly too few) wake up to
the realities of life, and actually start to perform. Those are the ones I
can then hire! =)

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.

To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.

Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.

A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.

I'm holding off against accepting "Boys are better
and will win all of the time" as the entire reason
to separate sports players by sex. Which is not
to say that it isn't what happens - depending on
the sport.

Post by Paul S Person
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 02:51:18 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie
I'm holding off against accepting "Boys are better
and will win all of the time" as the entire reason
to separate sports players by sex. Which is not
to say that it isn't what happens - depending on
the sport.

Fair enough - but if someone has gone through male puberty and
subsequently transitioned they've got the male skeleton which DOESN'T
change with a transition. If Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were
to transition at say age 20 he/she would retain their physique and
presumably their reflexes which had to be outstanding for him to
achieve what he did on the court.

Or even a second tier NBA player (aka "journeyman")

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 02:51:18 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie
I'm holding off against accepting "Boys are better
and will win all of the time" as the entire reason
to separate sports players by sex. Which is not
to say that it isn't what happens - depending on
the sport.

Fair enough - but if someone has gone through male puberty and
subsequently transitioned they've got the male skeleton which DOESN'T
change with a transition. If Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were
to transition at say age 20 he/she would retain their physique and
presumably their reflexes which had to be outstanding for him to
achieve what he did on the court.
Or even a second tier NBA player (aka "journeyman")

So I go back to: "The administrators of
the sport will deal with it. I will leave
it to them, unless I dislike what they do" -
like forbidding women, worldwide, to play
by the rules of soccer, once it was found
out how good they can get at it, and how
embarrassing that was for men.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.

I'm holding off against accepting "Boys are better
and will win all of the time" as the entire reason
to separate sports players by sex. Which is not
to say that it isn't what happens - depending on
the sport.

Post by Paul S Person
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

Please point to the decision by SCOTUS that says that discrimination
applies to transgenders.

Thanks,
Lynn

[Paul S Person]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 18:21:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

Please point to the decision by SCOTUS that says that discrimination
applies to transgenders.

I don't have a reference. This was some time back.

IIRC, it involved a business claiming that it was not discriminating
by sex (or possibly "gender", IANAL and may be putting one where I
should be putting the other) when it discriminated against a trans
employee.

The SC response was (essentially, IANAL): the action was /clearly/
based on the victim's gender (or sex -- again, IANAL), and so clearly
forbidden by the law. They did not buy the argument that, at the time
the law was passed, "trans" did not exist as a (legal) concept and so
the law did not include it when passed and so still did not.

Basically, the company lost because they claimed that ketchup was a
vegetable. Which a Republican President once did, to help public
schools wanting to avoid including vegetables in their meals. His
assertion crashed and burned too, but in the Press, not the SC.

This is not the same as the situation in school-related sports, where
discrimination by gender (or sex, IANAL) is allowed in locker rooms,
showers, teams, leagues, and awards and the issue is "Which gender (or
sex, IANAL) are trans players to be treated as?". Here, the
discrimination is in place and very few, if any, are disputing it.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 18:21:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 00:51:27 +0000, Robert Carnegie
=20

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person
What is strange is that the obvious solution -- four teams/leagues
instead of two -- does not appear to have occurred to anyone.

Or just one for all genders.
--scott

Are we talking about sports teams or about
"debating" gender and transgender issues?
I thought Paul was referring to the latter.

=20
I was, and I think the rejoinder is too.
=20
To be sure, it completely ignores the reason we have boys and girls
teams/leagues/tournaments/awards in the first place. And the reason
Federal Law requires (IIRC) schools receiving Federal Funds to have
girls teams/leagues/tournaments/awards that are provided just as
seriously as the boys' teams/leagues/tournaments/awards are.
=20
Note that the Supremes have already ruled that at least one part of
Federal Law concerning "discrimination by sex" /does/ apply to
transgender. IIRC, they were astounded that this wasn't clear to
everybody and that they had to point it out.
=20
A certain D. Trump will, of course, shortly be reversing all of this.
Or at least trying to do so.

Please point to the decision by SCOTUS that says that discrimination=20
applies to transgenders.

I don't have a reference. This was some time back.

Here is where you can look for your reference.

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/terms/

[Don]

"JK Rowling Details Cost Of Speaking Out On Trans Issue, Blasts NYT
'Rewriting Of History'"
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jk-rowling-details-cost-of-speaking-out-on-trans-issue-blasts-nyt-rewriting-of-history
"Harry Potter" author and female rights activist JK Rowling blasted The
New York Times on Monday for the "rewriting of history" about
transgender activists' vicious tactics, while Rowling outlined just how
much she and others have suffered for speaking out for girls and women."
"Rowling posted a screenshot of a Times article that suggests trans
activists are going to have to moderate their "unsparing criticism" of
those who disagree with them, ever since Democrats lost the 2024
election and Americans are increasingly disagreeing with the trans agenda."
"The rewriting of history begins," Rowling wrote. "Opponents of gender
ideology haven't merely 'endured unsparing criticism'. I haven't simply
been told I 'betrayed real feminism' or received a few book-burning
videos."
"I've been sent thousands of threats of murder, rape and violence," the
author outlined. "A trans woman posted my family's home address with a
bomb-making guide. My eldest child was targeted by a prominent trans
activist who attempted to doxx her and ended up doxxing the wrong young
woman."
Incredibly sad.

Realists are already conforming to the new political landscape. One of
my favorite New York City politicians dropped her social media pronouns
post-election.
Rowling knows better than me how the election impacts the London
literary circle Zeitgeist. It's unknown to me whether Yuval Noah Harari
intends to keep on keeping on, strumming Hirschfeldian [1] chords as an
intransigent ideologue on Berlin's political stage.
Back in the day, Hirschfeld scandalized Berlin's middle class. Their
sentiment helped launch a well known German politician unto the world
political stage, from where he figuratively morphed the One Big Gay
Disco:

into a Krampus Parad:

<https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ah0SyXQL5cI>

Note.

[1] Magnus Hirschfeld: the 'Einstein of Sex'

Magnus Hirschfeld was a gay Jew, sexologist, prolific writer and
liberal campaigner. In 1916 he helped to established Prussia's
progressive health and social welfare. He was a defender of
transexualism, sexual minorities and women and his legacy was an
influence on sex marriage counselling, the gay rights movement
and sex therapy. He was known as the 'Einstein of sex' studying
and categorising sexual behaviours such as sado-masochism,
phenomenon such as hyper-eroticism and coital hallucination, and
the darker side to sexual pathology such as the eroticism of war,
self-castration and lust-murder.

Hirschfeld supported the doctrine of 'sexual relativity' where,
between the idea of a full man and a full woman, sexual and gender
possibilities were naturally determined by a complex production
and balance of hormones. To support his beliefs he developed a
system which categorised 64 types of sexual intermediary across
androgyny, transsexualism, homosexuality and hermaphrodites. It
was Hirschfeld who first coined the term transvestite and
transsexual. By the end of his career he believed that 15-20% of
the population manifested sexual intermediary.

<https://adcochrane.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/sexual-derangement-and-the-nazi-burning-of-books/>

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.