(Tears) Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne

[James Nicoll]

Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne

Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

[Robert Woodward]

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have, but it
appears to be the Louis Mercier translation from the 19th century.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have, but it
appears to be the Louis Mercier translation from the 19th century.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------

There was some news item of 10 years or so ago to the effect that Leagues
had never received a decent translation (not just 'it reads like it was
translated!', but dropping characers & plot points -- that kind of thing),
and that someone connected with the Navy had now done one,
and it was much improved:

Oh, here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/20-000-Leagues-Under-Sea/dp/0870216783

For the past 120 years, readers of English have known only
a poor imitation of Jules Verne's classic French novel Vingt
Mille Lieues Sous les Mers and consequently relegated the
writer to the category of a "boy's author". Since 1873 the
standard English version has been Lewis Mercier's mangled
"translation," a work that's filled with errors, mistranslations,
and bogus additions, and missing nearly a quarter of Verne's
original text.

Now, thanks to the life-long efforts of two Verne scholars,
the English-speaking world at last has access to a definitive
translation, the only English version based solely on the
level of literary artist and scientific visionary, a category
he has always enjoyed in Europe and Russia.

Mercier's act of literary vandalism went unnoticed until
1965, when New York University English professor Walter
Miller discovered the missing text and began the restoration
of the Verne masterpiece. After nearly thirty years of work,
including rigorous examinations of his translation by experts
in marine technology and biology, Miller teamed that Frederick
Paul Walter in 1992 to create this landmark scientific and
literary achievement.

Restored to the volume along with the original woodcut
illustrations are the entertaining and often prescient drams
of Captain Nemo, widely considered the prototypical
science-fiction character. In this novel alone Verne has
anticipated submarine diving planes, scuba gear, underwater
laboratories, and marine ecological disasters. He also
inspired large-scale underwater mining and farming of flora
and fauna, and electricity from thermoclines, all currently
in development.

Restoration of these visionary ideas and some twenty-three
percent of the original text is certain to elevate Verne's
standing in American scientific and literary circles.

[Ahasuerus]

On 10/13/2024 1:37 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
[snip-snip]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
There was some news item of 10 years or so ago to the effect that Leagues
had never received a decent translation (not just 'it reads like it was
translated!', but dropping characers & plot points -- that kind of thing),
and that someone connected with the Navy had now done one,

[snip-snip]

For values of "10 or so" that include "31" --
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2495619

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
There was some news item of 10 years or so ago to the effect that Leagues
had never received a decent translation (not just 'it reads like it was
translated!', but dropping characers & plot points -- that kind of thing),
and that someone connected with the Navy had now done one,

[snip-snip]
For values of "10 or so" that include "31" --
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2495619

Loading Image...

[Paul S Person]

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
There was some news item of 10 years or so ago to the effect that Leagues
had never received a decent translation (not just 'it reads like it was
translated!', but dropping characers & plot points -- that kind of thing),
and that someone connected with the Navy had now done one,

[snip-snip]
For values of "10 or so" that include "31" --
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?2495619

This is because "10 years or so" is often a synonym for "a long time
ago".

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
has mine:
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

[Tony Nance]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

Hm. I had read this as a kid, and I have no idea which version I read.
Many many years ago, having seen discussions here about poor
translations, I picked up a more recent copy, but I haven't read it yet.[1]

My copy is a Bantam Classic 1981 printing of a 1962 copyrighted version
translated by Anthony Bonner, with an Introduction by Ray Bradbury. The
Bradbury intro is 12 pages long, titled "The Ardent Blasphemers".

Poking around a little, it seems this is a fine translation, but they
cleaned it up and improved it in 1985.

I'll toss this in the short stack and read it some time.
Tony
[1] I did read The Mysterious Island in the last 1-2 years.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Woodward
My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

Hm. I had read this as a kid, and I have no idea which version I read. Many many years ago, having seen discussions here about poor translations, I picked up a more recent copy, but I haven't read it yet.[1]
My copy is a Bantam Classic 1981 printing of a 1962 copyrighted version translated by Anthony Bonner, with an Introduction by Ray Bradbury. The Bradbury intro is 12 pages long, titled "The Ardent Blasphemers".
Poking around a little, it seems this is a fine translation, but they cleaned it up and improved it in 1985.

I have the Bantam Pathfinder edition:
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295423>

I pulled it off of the shelf to find out what translation it is, but its
contents start with page 23, so that was less than helpful. I would think
it likely that Bantam might have re-used the translation. Any way to find
out for sure? Where did your research take you?

[Tony Nance]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Tony Nance

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Woodward
My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

Hm. I had read this as a kid, and I have no idea which version I read.
Many many years ago, having seen discussions here about poor
translations, I picked up a more recent copy, but I haven't read it yet.[1]
My copy is a Bantam Classic 1981 printing of a 1962 copyrighted
version translated by Anthony Bonner, with an Introduction by Ray
Bradbury. The Bradbury intro is 12 pages long, titled "The Ardent
Blasphemers".
Poking around a little, it seems this is a fine translation, but they
cleaned it up and improved it in 1985.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295423>
I pulled it off of the shelf to find out what translation it is, but its
contents start with page 23, so that was less than helpful. I would think
it likely that Bantam might have re-used the translation. Any way to find
out for sure? Where did your research take you?

Seems very likely to be the same translation I have, especially since
the date listed under the Contents line on the isfdb page you linked to
says "1962".

This page http://www.najvs.org/works/V006_VL.shtml
seems to have info on many translations, and was the source of my "1985"
improvement. However, it appears I misread that - 1985 was not the
improvement, it was what a 2003 post was referring to. So the improved
Bantam translation may well have been 2003.

Tony

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

My copy is a Bantam Classic 1981 printing of a 1962 copyrighted version translated by Anthony Bonner, with an Introduction by Ray Bradbury. The Bradbury intro is 12 pages long, titled "The Ardent Blasphemers".
Poking around a little, it seems this is a fine translation, but they cleaned it up and improved it in 1985.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295423>
I pulled it off of the shelf to find out what translation it is, but its
contents start with page 23, so that was less than helpful. I would think
it likely that Bantam might have re-used the translation. Any way to find
out for sure? Where did your research take you?

Seems very likely to be the same translation I have, especially since the date listed under the Contents line on the isfdb page you linked to says "1962".
This page   http://www.najvs.org/works/V006_VL.shtml
seems to have info on many translations, and was the source of my "1985" improvement. However, it appears I misread that - 1985 was not the improvement, it was what a 2003 post was referring to. So the improved Bantam translation may well have been 2003.

Well, then I think that I'll give it a whirl. I've been skittish ever since the discussion
here that gave the impression that the Naval Press translation was the first good English
version. Maybe I misread.

[Paul S Person]

On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 08:03:53 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Michael F. Stemper

My copy is a Bantam Classic 1981 printing of a 1962 copyrighted version translated by Anthony Bonner, with an Introduction by Ray Bradbury. The Bradbury intro is 12 pages long, titled "The Ardent Blasphemers".
Poking around a little, it seems this is a fine translation, but they cleaned it up and improved it in 1985.

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295423>
I pulled it off of the shelf to find out what translation it is, but its
contents start with page 23, so that was less than helpful. I would think
it likely that Bantam might have re-used the translation. Any way to find
out for sure? Where did your research take you?

Seems very likely to be the same translation I have, especially since the date listed under the Contents line on the isfdb page you linked to says "1962".
This page   http://www.najvs.org/works/V006_VL.shtml
seems to have info on many translations, and was the source of my "1985" improvement. However, it appears I misread that - 1985 was not the improvement, it was what a 2003 post was referring to. So the improved Bantam translation may well have been 2003.

Well, then I think that I'll give it a whirl. I've been skittish ever since the discussion
here that gave the impression that the Naval Press translation was the first good English
version. Maybe I misread.

I'm currently heading toward the End of Dumas, and it has long been
apparent to me that learning French and reading French novels in
French might have been a better idea. With the proper aids, of course.
Which in Dumas' case would have been a detailed French history.

But that is not the path I chose. As to Verne, I don't know if I want
to extend my stay in 19th century France. Perhaps after a break ...
apparently CJ Cherryh has written another Alliance novel.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

Oops, you are right (I missed that entry in the long list of
translations).

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Robert Woodward

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Robert Woodward
My copy of this is an early 1960s Scholastic Book Library edition
without translator credit or credit for the one interior illustration.
The ISFDB doesn't acknowledge the Scholastic Book edition I have,

I can't believe that there were that many early 1960s SBS editions. The ISFDB
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?295370>

Oops, you are right (I missed that entry in the long list of
translations).

Easy to do; I had trouble sorting it out myself. If I recall correctly, what I
finally did was search on "Scholastic".

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne

This would have been a great opportunity to review the original
French novel, given how you keep mentioning that you are Canadian,
and we all know that French is Canada's other language.

| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.

I had to look up the timeline: Construction of the USS Nautilus,
the world's first nuclear-powered submarine, began in 1952 and it
was launched in January 1954. The Disney movie was shot over the
first half of 1954 and released starting Christmas 1954.

Also, _Vingt Mille Lieues sous les mers_[1] was published in
1869-1870. Radioactivity wasn't discovered until 1896.


[1] French title capitalization rules are baroque.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#Principes_de_capitalisation_des_titres

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Christian Weisgerber
| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.

I thought it was a big deal that it was powered by electricity, seeing
that when I read the book for the first time I was fascinated and
impressed with electricity. I still am, for that matter.

However, this was one of the more minor things that Disney did wrong,
beginning with casting Peter Lorre twenty years too late when he was
just phoning in all his performances.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Christian Weisgerber
| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.

I thought it was a big deal that it was powered by electricity, seeing
that when I read the book for the first time I was fascinated and
impressed with electricity. I still am, for that matter.
However, this was one of the more minor things that Disney did wrong,
beginning with casting Peter Lorre twenty years too late when he was
just phoning in all his performances.

I thought he did a fine job ... as the humorous side-kick.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Christian Weisgerber
| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.

I thought it was a big deal that it was powered by electricity, seeing
that when I read the book for the first time I was fascinated and
impressed with electricity. I still am, for that matter.
However, this was one of the more minor things that Disney did wrong,
beginning with casting Peter Lorre twenty years too late when he was
just phoning in all his performances.

I thought he did a fine job ... as the humorous side-kick.

As humorous side kicks go, he was no Chico or Harpo. He wasn't even a Zeppo.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Christian Weisgerber
| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.

I thought it was a big deal that it was powered by electricity, seeing
that when I read the book for the first time I was fascinated and
impressed with electricity. I still am, for that matter.
However, this was one of the more minor things that Disney did wrong,
beginning with casting Peter Lorre twenty years too late when he was
just phoning in all his performances.

I thought he did a fine job ... as the humorous side-kick.

As humorous side kicks go, he was no Chico or Harpo. He wasn't even a Zeppo.

I think you are confusing "humorous" with "over the top".

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 13 Oct 2024 18:11:17 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne

This would have been a great opportunity to review the original
French novel, given how you keep mentioning that you are Canadian,
and we all know that French is Canada's other language.
| 1: The Nautilus was not nuclear-powered, whatever Disney claimed in
| their film adaptation.
I had to look up the timeline: Construction of the USS Nautilus,
the world's first nuclear-powered submarine, began in 1952 and it
was launched in January 1954. The Disney movie was shot over the
first half of 1954 and released starting Christmas 1954.

And nuclear-powered submarines were all the rage back then.

As were nuclear explosions wiping out a laboratory inside a volcano
island.

The documentary of the DVD had a writer asserting that they had the
devil of a time actually getting a plot out of the book, which was
mostly about oceanography.

And, BTW, adaptation is /not/ transcription.

[Don]

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

Excerpt:

The crew of the Nautilus, all male, are left in the
background because they speak a conlang not shared
with Aronnax, Conseil, and Land.

Matthew Ward's short story, "The Code" conceivably contains courtship
conlang concocted by committee:

The committee got the first version of the Code wrong.
Their cleverness hindered achieving their goal. They
created natural sounding language for the oral contracts
in an attempt to be as unobtrusive as possible. Sadly,
people agreed to things without realizing it

In Saussure v Gettier, Eric Gettier was on a date and
asked, “How do your lips feel?”

Carla Saussure seemed to forget that this initiated a
contract. She replied, “They are rather dry. Good thing
I brought my lip balm with me. What about you? Do you
want some?”

Saussure’s response put Gettier in a bind, because
prompting the correct response invalidated the contract
as attempted coercion. Gettier tried again, “No. I’m not
actually asking how your lips are.”

Saussure continued to seem ignorant of the Gettier problem.

“Well, then why did you ask me?”

“Because I want to kiss you, of course!”

“Oh. That’s silly. Of course you can.”

Gettier lost himself in the moment and forgot that he had
not fulfilled the proper wording. He leaned over and kissed
her. She sued for sexual harassment and won.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

[Don]

Correction to "The Code" excerpt.

Post by James Nicoll
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (Captain Nemo, volume 1) by
Jules Verne
Professor Pierre Aronnax sets out to classify what he hopes is a
novel species of narwhal, only to find himself on board a
submarine captained by a self-exiled genius.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/like-the-ocean

Excerpt:

The crew of the Nautilus, all male, are left in the
background because they speak a conlang not shared
with Aronnax, Conseil, and Land.

Matthew Ward's short story, "The Code" conceivably contains courtship
conlang concocted by committee:

The committee got the first version of the Code wrong.
Their cleverness hindered achieving their goal. They
created natural sounding language for the oral contracts
in an attempt to be as unobtrusive as possible. Sadly,
people agreed to things without realizing it and denied
agreements they didn’t wish to deny. Take, for instance,
the original initiation for kissing, "How do your lips
feel?" To agree, you replied, "Ready to be kissed." The
law considered everything else to be refusing the contract.

In Saussure v Gettier, Eric Gettier was on a date and
asked, "How do your lips feel?"

Carla Saussure seemed to forget that this initiated a
contract. She replied, "They are rather dry. Good thing
I brought my lip balm with me. What about you? Do you
want some?"

Saussure’s response put Gettier in a bind, because
prompting the correct response invalidated the contract
as attempted coercion. Gettier tried again, "No. I’m not
actually asking how your lips are."

Saussure continued to seem ignorant of the Gettier problem.

"Well, then why did you ask me?"

"Because I want to kiss you, of course!"

"Oh. That’s silly. Of course you can."

Gettier lost himself in the moment and forgot that he had
not fulfilled the proper wording. He leaned over and kissed
her. She sued for sexual harassment and won.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.