Discussion:
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
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James Nicoll
2024-05-06 14:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs

From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...

https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Scott Dorsey
2024-05-06 15:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
What the hell?
Five SF works about mind-altering drugs and NOT A SINGLE ONE from Philip
K. Dick. At LEAST you could have added Deus Irae.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Paul S Person
2024-05-06 16:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
What the hell?
Five SF works about mind-altering drugs and NOT A SINGLE ONE from Philip
K. Dick. At LEAST you could have added Deus Irae.
Perhaps, being aware that PK Dick had problems selling his work once
/Dangerous Visions/ tagged him as a druggee (or so I have read ...
somewhere), James Nicoll was merely being kind.

That said, /A Scanner Darkly/ was quite interesting. As novel and as
film.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Robert Carnegie
2024-05-17 10:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
What the hell?
Five SF works about mind-altering drugs and NOT A SINGLE ONE from Philip
K. Dick. At LEAST you could have added Deus Irae.
Describing books that readers haven't read -
or seen described by James before - may be
more pleasing. I suppose this means that
most readers haven't read _Brave New World_.
Well... you don't have to. It is disturbing.
On reflection, appalling.
Lynn McGuire
2024-05-07 00:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
Zero for Five as usual.

Need to add "Bloodhype (Adventures of Pip & Flinx Book 3)" by Alan Dean
Foster.

https://www.amazon.com/Bloodhype-Adventures-Pip-Flinx-Book-ebook/dp/B000FBFOLO/

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2024-05-07 00:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
Zero for Five as usual.
Need to add "Bloodhype (Adventures of Pip & Flinx Book 3)" by Alan Dean
Foster.
https://www.amazon.com/Bloodhype-Adventures-Pip-Flinx-Book-ebook/dp/B000FBFOLO/
Lynn
"The Yellow Pill" By Rog Phillips

James K. Morrow, _The Wine of Violence_.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
John Savard
2024-05-08 04:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.

Then in Carcinoma Angels... it's still a mystery about how a
mind-altering drug could alterl a problem with one's body, a thing in
reality, not one's experience of it.

The fact that rich men can control what people regard as desirable in
their own reality... doesn't give them, when they're fictional
characters, the power to control what readers of the books they're in
consider acceptable. But at the time this book was written, we hadn't
achieved the situation where famines only happened locally in the
Third World when food distribution was disrupted locally by war.

So I'm not surprised that sterilizing millions of Third World women
might well have raised fewer eyebrows back then, as preferable to
millions of babies in the Third World dying agonizing deaths from
starvation. That could not be prevented by the rich world just beilng
more generous, because exponential growth has a way of expanding out
of the reach of anything.

Akira: well, the scientists had to be where the big libraries were. I
guess this was before the Internet was invented.

John Savard
Michael F. Stemper
2024-05-09 21:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.
Can you provide a quote from the text to that effect?
--
Michael F. Stemper
There's no "me" in "team". There's no "us" in "team", either.
Robert Carnegie
2024-05-17 09:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.
Can you provide a quote from the text to that effect?
I don't think that's right in _Brave New World_.
Soma is very popular. There is a scene where
it seems to be used for euthanasia for the
unproductive. Other stories may have a drug
with that effect and possibly with that name.

The truth drug in the extended "Family D'Alembert"
series - by Stephen Goldin writing as E.E. Smith -
kills fifty percent of subjects, often before
interrogation begins. I say "often" - I think
I remember it's more often threatened than used.

It works really well though... mostly...
Cryptoengineer
2024-05-17 14:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.
Can you provide a quote from the text to that effect?
I don't think that's right in _Brave New World_.
Soma is very popular.  There is a scene where
it seems to be used for euthanasia for the
unproductive.  Other stories may have a drug
with that effect and possibly with that name.
Looking at the references in the partial copy at
archive.org confirms my memories that soma is
used casually for 'holidays' from reality. It is
specifically said (by characters who may be
unreliable) to be without side effects.

But like much in that society, there's a darker
side. I found this passage:

Speaking of Linda, the Savage's mother, who is
massively overdosing on soma. The doctor says
it will kill her 'in a month or two', by stopping
breathing. It shortens life:

‘In one sense, yes,’ Dr Shaw admitted. ‘But in
another we’re actually lengthening it.’ The young
man started, uncomprehending. ‘Soma may make you
lose a few years in time,’ the doctor went on.
‘But think of the enormous, immeasurable durations
it can give you out of time. Every soma-holiday
is a bit of what our ancestors used to call eternity.’

Nevertheless, there is discussion of people in their
60s.

So, not a year per dose, but some life shortening.

pt
Michael F. Stemper
2024-05-17 17:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.
Can you provide a quote from the text to that effect?
I don't think that's right in _Brave New World_.
Soma is very popular.  There is a scene where
it seems to be used for euthanasia for the
unproductive.  Other stories may have a drug
with that effect and possibly with that name.
Looking at the references in the partial copy at
archive.org confirms my memories that soma is
used casually for 'holidays' from reality.
That matches my recollection. Thanks.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Exodus 22:21
Robert Carnegie
2024-06-05 19:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by John Savard
Post by James Nicoll
Five SF Works About Mind-Altering Drugs
From Huxley's Brave New World to Akira's Neo-Tokyo, science fiction
has dreamed up some very strange and powerful drugs...
https://reactormag.com/five-sf-works-about-mind-altering-drugs/
In the case of Brave New World... you didn't mention that each use of
Soma shortens one's life by a year.
Can you provide a quote from the text to that effect?
I don't think that's right in _Brave New World_.
Soma is very popular.  There is a scene where
it seems to be used for euthanasia for the
unproductive.  Other stories may have a drug
with that effect and possibly with that name.
Looking at the references in the partial copy at
archive.org confirms my memories that soma is
used casually for 'holidays' from reality. It is
specifically said (by characters who may be
unreliable) to be without side effects.
But like much in that society, there's a darker
Speaking of Linda, the Savage's mother, who is
massively overdosing on soma. The doctor says
it will kill her 'in a month or two', by stopping
‘In one sense, yes,’ Dr Shaw admitted. ‘But in
another we’re actually lengthening it.’ The young
man started, uncomprehending. ‘Soma may make you
lose a few years in time,’ the doctor went on.
‘But think of the enormous, immeasurable durations
it can give you out of time. Every soma-holiday
is a bit of what our ancestors used to call eternity.’
Nevertheless, there is discussion of people in their
60s.
So, not a year per dose, but some life shortening.
In real life, pain relief by morphine can have that
dual effect. Doctors sometimes talk disturbingly
about that as an unofficial form of assisted dying.

The doctor here sees Linda as not worth saving
because she is unemployed. It is a long time since
I read the whole book, but I suspect that anybody
who is unable to work gets similar treatment,
particularly in hospital - which here it isn't:
I don't remember if that comes later. But I see
people that the story world doesn't need, as being
disposable in that world. Someone has to work,
in order to earn, in order to consume. No one has
family, no one has dependents. No one cares.

And I don't remember if the story world treats
older people with plastic surgery and sex drugs,
or if when you're old, you're done. They don't have
people who are old. Linda is ugly-old, and fat, and
this disgusts people. She is rejected. They also
find her tiresome. I don't know if she just is
physically unfit For cosmetic repairs. But drugging
herself to death is "a good thing" apparently.
Because she isn't a worker.

So the doctor says, "No, we can’t rejuvenate.
But I’m very glad to have had this opportunity
to see an example of senility in a human being.
Thank you so much for calling me in."

Old people are either rejuvenated if that exists,
or self-euthanised, is my interpretation.
Geriatric care doesn't exist for most doctors.

Of course, this isn't a real world we are looking
at, but a cultural dystopia which is sometimes
painted in broad strokes. What I'm inferring
may not be intended by Aldous Huxley. Practically
he is depriving John of his mother so that John is
alone in the brave new world of incomprehensible
Fordian human beings. And it would be possible to
have Linda simply drop dead. Perhaps too convenient.
What does happen debases Linda, humiliates her,
and it leaves John alone, and perhaps those are
the only reasons why what happens, happens this way.

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