YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
idea what it was called and can’t really remember the plot except that
there was a conflict between “normal” humans and those who had their
genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
similar books?"

Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-14 19:27:55 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
recommendations about similar books?"

Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

The reddit thread covers this.

Thanks,
Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2024-03-15 00:25:29 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point
where it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes.
There was a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had
some feline features and some of their agility, people with snake
genes that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous,
smooth movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for
YEARS, but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really
remember the plot except that there was a conflict between “normal”
humans and those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions,
or even recommendations about similar books?"

Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

The reddit thread covers this.

I don't read Reddit.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-15 19:04:50 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point
where it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes.
There was a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who
had some feline features and some of their agility, people with
snake genes that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had
sensuous, smooth movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this
book for YEARS, but I have no idea what it was called and can’t
really remember the plot except that there was a conflict between
“normal” humans and those who had their genes modified. Any help,
suggestions, or even recommendations about similar books?"

Is this to specifically exclude uplifted animals to human level sentience?

The reddit thread covers this.

I don't read Reddit.

Here are the comments to date (what a mess !):

Cordwainer Smith's Ballad of Lost C'Mell and Norstrilia, perhaps?
14
User avatar
level 1
Bioceramic
·
3 days ago
· edited 3 days ago

This could be describing the Ousters from Dan Simmons' Hyperion series.
Plus one of the main characters spent a few years as a goat man.
14
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level 1
Xeelee1123
·
3 days ago

Could it be S. Andrew Swann´s Moreau Series?
11
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volunteeroranje
·
3 days ago

Some of the revelation space universe (most The Prefect series and Chasm
city) have similar descriptors and stuff. Not sure it’s central enough
for your description but it’s present at least.
9
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Outrageous_Reach_695
·
3 days ago

Thanks! Chasm City is the one I was trying to suggest in my response.
3
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Bleatbleatbang
·
3 days ago
· edited 3 days ago

2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Main character has cat genes and can purr.
5
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level 1
ShadowFlux85
·
3 days ago

Not your book but some similar ideas in Adrian Tzaikovsky's works, both
in children of time later books and the shadows of the apt series
7
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dblowe
·
3 days ago

Sounds a lot like Cordwainer Smith’s”Underpeople”
5
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stimpakish
·
3 days ago

Another vote for Cordwainer Smith's works others mentioned.

There are also similar elements in Linda Nagata's Bohr Maker (and
series), to name one that hasn't been metioned yet.
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Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

SM Stirling's Draka (drakensis sapien) used a little bit of this and
that from terrestrial animals when they completely remade themselves
genetically. Being a slave-owning "race", they were able to completely
outpace western democracies in the biological sciences because they
didn't shy away from human testing at all. Got a serf that's giving your
plantation trouble? Send that tool-that-thinks to the Security Directorate.

The Draka books were amazingly well-written. A trilogy that basically
sees a cold war from what we would consider as the objectively evil side
of things. He followed that with the Nantucketer trilogy and for a while
there I was willing to buy anything with his name as the author. After
the first three books of the emberverse, though...kinda soured on him. I
think he was making up for perceived liberties taken with the Draka books.
4
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level 2
FTLast
·
3 days ago

Don’t give up on Mr Stirling entirely. The Peshawar Lancers is quite
good, as are the two The Sky People books. The Black Chamber books have
been quite entertaining as well.
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level 3
Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

Read those, of course! And agreed though I wish the Lords of Creation
had been finished. The endless and off the rails emberverse did me in
though. All that build up...zero payoff.
3
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level 4
FTLast
·
2 days ago

Yeah, I gave up on those, too. Stirling has a couple of hobbyhorses-
food, martial arts and lesbians- that he overdoes. Throw in Wiccans… ugh.
3
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Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

I'm glad you mentioned food, lol. His lists of food became ubertolkein.
Personally, I think he got a lot of flak for the main protagonists in
Stone Dogs and Drakan, tried to make up with Marion Alston/Swindapa in
the Nantucketer trilogy, and then just kept going in that direction. I
actually have had a couple of conversations with him, both online and in
person, and we didn't agree either time :)
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level 2
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

There are five Draka books in total. The fourth book, Drakon, is the
best. And the scariest with all of the genetic modifications finished in
their universe.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671877119/
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Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

Four novels, one omnibus, and a collection of shared universe shorts.
What am I missing?
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level 4
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

You got them all. I did not even know about the omnibus. The fifth book
is a book of short stories.
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Ravenloff
·
3 days ago

When I say he was my favoirte author, I meant it :) I talked my wife
into spending our 10th anniversary on Nantucket so I could visit the
sites mentioned in the trilogy. But I have to say again...was.
2
level 6
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

Why was ?

David Weber is my favorite author with Robert Heinlein almost a photo
finish with him. Then there is a quite a few with S. M. Stirling in the
bunch along with Alan Dean Foster, John Varley, Martha Wells, Seanan
McGuire, Lois McMaster Bujold, Steven Gould, John Ringo, Larry Correia,
Andy Weir, Faith Hunter, etc.
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Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

No Peter F Hamilton?? If you liked 90's/2000's Stirling, you would
probably love PFH. Start with Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained. I've
definitely read me some Weber and strapped in for the entire Safehold
series, but honestly...it's artillery porn with a huge cast ;) Would
love for him to finish the Hell's Gate series. I only remember seeing
two books there and no finale. I've got writer friends that collaborate
with him here and there so I keep up to date. Can honestly say, though,
while I do enjoy a lot of his work, I could never get into the
Honorverse. No idea why.
2
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level 7
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

Oh...and to answer your question...he just leaned way too heavily into
dead end story arcs and even with my ample suspension of disbelief, made
choices, especially in the emberverse, that I just couldn't get beyond.
Mainly the massive build-up to zero payoff thing, and then it
just...kept...going...no thanks.
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level 8
codejockblue5
·
2 days ago

For instance, I loved the first four books of The Emberverse (Dies The
Fire) series. The next 5 or 6 ??? books, not so much. I have the next
two books in my SBR.
2
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level 9
Ravenloff
·
2 days ago

I got through their trip to Nantucket and back so I think that was six
total. Didn't see any reason to continue after that.
2
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ImaginaryEvents
·
3 days ago

I have a vague memory of a pantheroid as the best friend of a mc, maybe
in the "Jak Jinnaka" series by John Barnes starting with The Duke of
Uranium (2002)
4
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level 1
MegC18
·
3 days ago

Lois McMaster Bujold’s Vorkosigan saga has a teenage mercenary with
feline genes
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level 2
codejockblue5
·
3 days ago

I thought Tara had wolf genes ???
3
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tegeus-Cromis_2000
·
3 days ago

As others have suggested, Cordwainer Smith is the closest fit. There's
also Brian Aldiss's An Island Called Moreau.
4
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Bquestnow
·
3 days ago

Gridlinked by Neal Asher
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AlwaysSayHi
·
3 days ago

The various 'adapts show up even more as the series goes on.
3
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Outrageous_Reach_695
·
3 days ago

Were combat enhancements illegal?

Did one of the main characters have some sort of ocular upgrades?

(Also not pulling a title up for the book I'm thinking of. Thought it
was something to do with 'rift', but that's a dead end.)
3
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Wolf_Daddy87
Op ·
3 days ago

Combat enhancements were not illegal, but modifications in general were
looked down upon by the public at large. Kind of like Goths in the 90s…
Looked down upon by society at large, but very popular within certain
communities. And yes, ocular enhancements were a thing.
2
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ActonofMAM
·
3 days ago

John Scalzi's "Android's Dream" has several humans with other mammalian
genes, but we really only meet one of them.
3
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TungstenChap
·
3 days ago

There is human/animal gene-splicing like you describe in Kim Stanley
Robinson's Mars trilogy, either in Green Mars or Blue Mars: people
routinely re-customize their genome for aesthetical purpose, to add
tiger stripes for example, which manifest themselves after a few days
following the splicing session
3
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Fr0gm4n
·
3 days ago

It's certainly not the book you are looking for, but in a similar
posthuman genre you might look into Bruce Sterling's Schizmatrix stories
in his Shaper/Mechanist universe.
3
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unkilbeeg
·
3 days ago

H. G. Wells, The Island of Dr. Moreau.
3
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hvyboots
·
3 days ago

This is 100% not the book you read, but if you want to read something
more in the genre, then The Daughter of Doctor Moreau by Silvia
Moreno-Garcia is right up your alley. It's more magical realism than
science fiction (and takes place in the 1800s, I think) but it's
definitely in that niche of literature.
3
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tykeryerson
·
3 days ago

Definitely Dogs of War by Adrian Tchaikovsky
3
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B0b_Howard
·
3 days ago

Sounds a bit like "Lucifer's Dragon" by Jon Courtenay Grimwood.
2
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Sovietgnome
·
3 days ago

Elizabeth Bear featured similar human/animal hybrids, what she calls
"moreaux," in her Edda of Burdens trilogy. I don't think it has the same
human / non-human conflict you're looking for though.
2
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anonyfool
·
3 days ago

There is significant genetic modification in the Xenogenesis series by
Octavia Butler and Old Man's War by John Scalzi but not in the way you
describe, to reveal more would spoil stuff. People are mentioning Oryx
and Crake, but that does not have conflict with genetically modified or
even genetically modified humans IIRC, it's used for making diseases and
cures and biological weapons and making new hybrid creatures that are
not possible in our world or replacements for extinct species.
Tchaikovsky's Children of Time series starts with genetically modifying
animals to increase chances for terraforming planets but that morphs
into much more.
2
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Fappy_as_a_Clam
·
3 days ago

Not the book your looking for but this type of thing is all over
Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space books
2
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CambodianDrywall
·
3 days ago

Not your book, but the Koban series by Stephen Bennett are based on
humans working towards genetic modifications in order to compete with an
invading alien species.
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danklymemingdexter
·
3 days ago

Surprised no one's mentioned Beasts, John Crowley's second novel. It's a
bit overshadowed by Engine Summer and Little, Big now, but I really like
it. Lion/human genetic hybrids, being hunted down by humans.

Yet to read anything by Crowley I've felt let down by.
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scythianraider
·
3 days ago

Reading 'Plague Bird' right now, forget the author but he was one of the
ones who helped uncover the Hugo scandal this year so his book was worth
a buy to me.

As someone else mentioned, it's hard to beat Hyperion.
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UnculturedWomble
·
3 days ago

Another in the "it's not this but" vein, but Zoo City by Lauren Beukes,
people (criminals mostly) get partnered/spliced with animals to keep
them under control in some way (the main character gets paired with a
sloth). Looked down upon because of the negative connotations of it. I
liked it when I read it years back.
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lrosa
·
3 days ago

James Kahn's World Enough, and Time (1980) and its sequel Time's dark
laughter (1982) are set in a post-apocalyptic future where genetic
modifications allowed to create various kind of mythological creatures
mixing human genome.

There is a third book of the series, Timefall (1987) but I didn't read
it (yet).
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Bollalron
·
3 days ago

Boy have I got a movie for you. I hope you like Rob Schneider.
2
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dan_dorje
·
3 days ago

This is ringing some bells for me rn but I'm struggling to think of the
story. Was the protagonist like a lonesome old unmodded guy trying to
track down an ex or something like that?
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larry-cripples
·
2 days ago

Could it be Babel-17?
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Wolf_Daddy87
Op ·
1 day ago

Thank you all for the great responses! Haven’t had a chance to look into
all of y’all’s suggestions/recommendations, but you’ve definitely given
me a lot to look for; much appreciated!
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level 2
codejockblue5
·
1 day ago

I take it we did not find the book that you are looking for ?
1
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Wolf_Daddy87
Op ·
23 hr. ago

Haven’t had a chance to go through them all yet; maybe 🤔
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rodrigo-benenson
·
3 days ago

A google search says that Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood might be the
book you are looking for.
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anonyfool
·
3 days ago

There's no conflict between the genetically modified and unmodified -
there essentially cannot be due to certain things, and the genetically
modified are not mixing with the normals until a critical plot event.
4
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SpoilerAvoidingAcct
·
3 days ago

Oryx and Crake comes to mind.
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edcculus
·
3 days ago

It’s definitely Animorphs.
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Agile-Dragonfruit-85
·
3 days ago

Thundercats
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Wolf_Daddy87
Op ·
3 days ago

Not Animorphs, although I did love the series. The book I’m referring to
wasn’t about people turning into animals, it was about humans that added
traits from animals into their genome. Some of the changes were purely
cosmetic, but some actually provided enhance abilities.
1
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level 3
edcculus
·
3 days ago

lol, I shouldn’t have needed a /s on my post to be obvious it was a joke
2
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Sovietgnome
·
3 days ago

Hey, it got a laugh out of me at least!
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rodrigo-benenson
·
3 days ago

Perplexity.ai suggests:

"Oryx and Crake" by Margaret Atwood, which features genetic engineering
and a post-apocalyptic setting. Another possibility is the "Uplift
Series" by David Brin, which involves genetically improved animal.

If you're looking for recommendations on similar books, the Reddit
threads in the search results offer numerous suggestions for works that
involve genetic engineering as a central theme, such as "The Revelation
Space series" by Alastair Reynolds, "Old Man's War" by John Scalzi, and
"The Sleepless Series" by Nancy Kress. Additionally, "The Mutant
Project" by Eben Kirksey discusses the ethical and social implications
of human genetic modification.
1

Tony Nance

2024-03-14 19:18:10 UTC

Did they already rule out Cordwainer Smith's Underpeople stories? I
don't remember much about snake people, but there were cat people (like
C'Mell), and dog-people (like D'Joan), and bovine people (like B'dikkat).

Tony

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-14 19:27:34 UTC

Post by Tony Nance

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
recommendations about similar books?"
Lynn

The reddit thread covers this.

Thanks,
Lynn

Robert Carnegie

2024-03-15 17:38:56 UTC

I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
to create a reddit account, I see it as
something that happens to other people.
But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
reader book (and we could debate which
stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
also whether this is about being born
with animal traits, or about getting a
treatment as a teenager or an adult.

It's extremely unlikely to be
Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
in which, happily as a minor theme,
animal-hybrid people have been devised
by an evil sex magician. One appears
as the magician's henchman.

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-15 19:02:24 UTC

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
recommendations about similar books?"

I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
to create a reddit account, I see it as
something that happens to other people.
But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
reader book (and we could debate which
stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
also whether this is about being born
with animal traits, or about getting a
treatment as a teenager or an adult.
It's extremely unlikely to be
Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
in which, happily as a minor theme,
animal-hybrid people have been devised
by an evil sex magician. One appears
as the magician's henchman.

Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?

Lynn

Scott Lurndal

2024-03-15 21:38:01 UTC

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
movements, and so on. Iâve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
but I have no idea what it was called and canât really remember the
plot except that there was a conflict between ânormalâ humans and
those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
recommendations about similar books?"

I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
to create a reddit account, I see it as
something that happens to other people.
But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
reader book (and we could debate which
stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
also whether this is about being born
with animal traits, or about getting a
treatment as a teenager or an adult.
It's extremely unlikely to be
Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
in which, happily as a minor theme,
animal-hybrid people have been devised
by an evil sex magician.Â One appears
as the magician's henchman.

Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?

You must be signed in to 'answer', which is what Robert said above.

Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

Cryptoengineer

2024-03-15 23:49:45 UTC

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was
a whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some
feline features and some of their agility, people with snake genes
that had some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth
movements, and so on. I’ve been trying to find this book for YEARS,
but I have no idea what it was called and can’t really remember the
plot except that there was a conflict between “normal” humans and
those who had their genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even
recommendations about similar books?"

I don't have an answer and I'm hesitating
to create a reddit account, I see it as
something that happens to other people.
But I'd ask whether this is a "young adult"
reader book (and we could debate which
stories since Dr. Moreau quality), and
also whether this is about being born
with animal traits, or about getting a
treatment as a teenager or an adult.
It's extremely unlikely to be
Ben Aaronovitch's _Moon Over Soho_ (2011),
in which, happily as a minor theme,
animal-hybrid people have been devised
by an evil sex magician. One appears
as the magician's henchman.

Can you not see Reddit posts without creating an account ?

You must be signed in to 'answer', which is what Robert said above.
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet.

It does have problems; in particular, the management is in the process
of platform enshittification - moving from pleasing users on to
pleasing advertisers. The step after that is pleasing investors,
followed by platform death.

But its still not bad. You don't need an account to read. You DO need
one to reply, but you can set up one WITHOUT SUPPLYING AN EMAIL. No
personally identifying info need be supplied. The registration page
will ask for an email page, but you can leave it blank.

pt

Garrett Wollman

2024-03-16 01:44:40 UTC

But its still not bad. You don't need an account to read [reddit].

Actually, you do, if you happen to be on an IP address that the
management have arbitrarily decided to ban.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Ahasuerus

2024-03-16 01:57:51 UTC

[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain differences:

1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.

2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".

3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.

4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
(RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.

5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.

6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-16 03:26:54 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet is
1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit admins
also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit account.
2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".
3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a certain
amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to comment. Reddit
also requires a certain amount of karma to create new subreddits.
4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit user
interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement Suite"
(RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to and
sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

I have been accused of being an AI on reddit so many times that one of
the moderators actually rescued me from the pitchfork and torch waving
mob after we exchanged a few emails. They gave me a large amount of
karma which stopped the AI screaming mob.

I hang out on five different reddit groups: r/printSF, r/Cplusplus,
r/fortran, r/dilbert, and r/ChemicalEngineering. r/printSF is
unbelievably busy.

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2024-03-16 04:11:18 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web. And
failed badly.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Chris Buckley

2024-03-16 12:16:41 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web. And
failed badly.

How has Reddit failed?

Usenet has failed, as is only proper. It was meant primarily as an
information dissemination mechanism and content control was a much
later secondary consideration. It worked very well as long as it
wasn't popular enough or lucrative enough to attract people wanting to
exploit it. The only reason good corners like this still exist is
that they are unpopular! (We just saw what a single nefarious
individual can do to Usenet.)

I don't participate in any Reddit communities, but I lurk in a couple
and I search it all the time. If I want honest opinions on products
or services or practices, I simply add "reddit" to my search. Much higher
quality than elsewhere. The communities are real.

Chris

Cryptoengineer

2024-03-16 15:24:27 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
account.
2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".
3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users upvoting
or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits require a
certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or to
comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create new
subreddits.
4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Sounds like "someone" tried to copy or update Usenet to the web. And
failed badly.

Reddit may not match Usenet in unmoderated discussion, but it
remains by far the most widely used long-text discussion forum on the web.

It currently has 62 million daily users. /r/printsf, the nearest
equivalent to this newsgroup, has 314,000 users. [Modulo spam and bot
accounts, but we get those on usenet too]

pt

Cryptoengineer

2024-03-16 19:31:23 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.

In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.

Not all moderation is bad.

pt

Ahasuerus

2024-03-16 23:02:24 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.
Not all moderation is bad.

Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.

Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-17 00:25:39 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
account.
2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".
3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or
to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create
new subreddits.
4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.
Not all moderation is bad.

Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.
Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

Most of the moderation on usenet has blown up because the moderators
allowed themselves to die off rather than recruit new moderators. So
nobody could post new messages to those moderated groups and reply yo
old postings.

The moderation on reddit is reactive rather than pre moderation like on
usenet. The moderators allow members of a group to post freely unless
there is a problem.

Lynn

Cryptoengineer

2024-03-17 04:26:21 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
is a collection of "newsgroups". However, there are certain
1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to
deal with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword.
Reddit admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can
ban Reddit account.
2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".
3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post
and/or to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to
create new subreddits.
4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical
Usenet client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable --
reading Reddit without it is painful.
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that
Large Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.
Not all moderation is bad.

Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity,
Questionable Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies
and different moderators apply them differently, which leads to
various controversies.
Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with
for a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I
subscribed to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing
controversy over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

Most of the moderation on usenet has blown up because the moderators
allowed themselves to die off rather than recruit new moderators. So
nobody could post new messages to those moderated groups and reply yo
old postings.
The moderation on reddit is reactive rather than pre moderation like on
usenet. The moderators allow members of a group to post freely unless
there is a problem.
Lynn

Yeah. Moderation on usenet is pre-post - a post requires approval by
the moderator before anyone could see it. The meant that mods have to
read, and approve, *every single post* to the group.

Reddit moderating is post-post - they can remove posts after they've
hit the sub. They can also ban specific users for either a period of
time, or permanently. There's zero recourse, beyond appealing in a
private message to one of the sub's mods.

I've been permabanned from a number of subs, and banned and reinstated
on some others. Some I arguably deserved, others I did not; some subs
auto-ban any one who has posted in a sub they object to.

Most of the time, it isn't an issue.

pt

Robert Carnegie

2024-03-21 23:24:06 UTC

Post by Cryptoengineer
Yeah. Moderation on usenet is pre-post - a post requires approval by
the moderator before anyone could see it. The meant that mods have to
read, and approve, *every single post* to the group.

Well, it can be run automatically, instead of
by a human. I don't know the details.

Post by Cryptoengineer
Reddit moderating is post-post - they can remove posts after they've
hit the sub. They can also ban specific users for either a period of
time, or permanently. There's zero recourse, beyond appealing in a
private message to one of the sub's mods.
I've been permabanned from a number of subs, and banned and reinstated
on some others. Some I arguably deserved, others I did not; some subs
auto-ban any one who has posted in a sub they object to.
Most of the time, it isn't an issue.

I've been banned on other forums without
being told that no one was seeing my
contributions. That's unjustified.

Mike Van Pelt

2024-03-24 21:52:11 UTC

Post by Robert Carnegie
I've been banned on other forums without
being told that no one was seeing my
contributions. That's unjustified.

I can see a case where this would be justified: A spammer,
or a particularly pernicious troll. Just to (hopefully)
delay them switching to yet another throw-away account.

Not accusing you of falling into this category at all;
this is just a situation where I've thought "shadowbanning"
would be justified. Perhaps including "Panopticlick" type
PC identification for particularly pernicious ones who
keep creating new accounts to get around a justified ban.

Like I said, for spamming, pernicious trolling, or repeatedly
creating new accounts to get around a ban, not for "has an
opinion that differs from the host" cases.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

Cryptoengineer

2024-03-17 04:19:22 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus

Post by Ahasuerus
[snip-snip]

Post by Scott Lurndal
Personally, I have no interest in reddit, with or without an account.

I honestly find the reddit-hate on usenet a bit dissapointing. Perhaps
because its the closest thing to usenet, but is not usenet. [snip]

It's true that Reddit is a collection of "subreddits" the way Usenet
1. All subreddits are moderated, which, as anyone who has had to deal
with moderated newsgroups knows, is a double-edged sword. Reddit
admins also function as site-wide super-moderators and can ban Reddit
account.
2. Subreddit moderators have to follow site-wide Reddit content
policies, which have been known to change. To quote
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct , "your
subreddit and moderator team can be held accountable for individual
moderator actions".
3. Reddit has a "karma" system, which is based on other users
upvoting or downvoting your posts and comments. Some subreddits
require a certain amount of positive Reddit-wide karma to post and/or
to comment. Reddit also requires a certain amount of karma to create
new subreddits.
4. Usenet clients are generally more robust than the default Reddit
user interface. However, certain add-ons like "Reddit Enhancement
Suite" (RES) provide additional functionality which is comparable to
and sometimes even superior to what you will find in a typical Usenet
client. I find the Reddit Enhancement Suite indispensable -- reading
Reddit without it is painful.
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" --
which facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.
Not all moderation is bad.

Oh, I didn't say that moderation was bad. I said that it was a
double-edged sword. We have seen it on Usenet as well as on Web-based
SF-related forums like Space Battles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable
Questing, etc. Different forums have different policies and different
moderators apply them differently, which leads to various controversies.
Re: spam filtering, it's something that Usenet has been dealing with for
a very long time. One of the first things that I saw when I subscribed
to rec.arts.sf.written in April 1994 was an ongoing controversy over
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic 's spam.

That takes me back....

pt

Scott Lurndal

2024-03-17 16:02:28 UTC

Post by Ahasuerus
5. Usenet newsgroups are hierarchical -- "rec.arts.sf.written" -- which
facilitates discovery. Subreddits are less structured.
6. Curiously, Reddit spam is becoming more of an issue now that Large
Language Models are better at impersonating humans.

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.

I would point out that since google shut down, there hasn't been
any spam to filter. Nor was there any before the recent
google thai spam storm.

My usenet provider refused to filter that Thai spam because
they don't filter or moderate at all.

Dimensional Traveler

2024-03-17 17:27:43 UTC

Need I point out that you are posting from eternal-september.org,
which exercises moderation of this newsgroup.
In fact, most of us use ES specifically *because* rasfw here is
moderated, to filter out spam posts.

I would point out that since google shut down, there hasn't been
any spam to filter. Nor was there any before the recent
google thai spam storm.
My usenet provider refused to filter that Thai spam because
they don't filter or moderate at all.

I've seen a few bits of spam since The Great Google Shutdown ( :P ) but
very little. I also have my own reader's filters still in place so it
is possible that there is some more that I don't see but I agree it is
better now.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

The Horny Goat

2024-03-19 02:37:30 UTC

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:27:43 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler
I've seen a few bits of spam since The Great Google Shutdown ( :P ) but
very little. I also have my own reader's filters still in place so it
is possible that there is some more that I don't see but I agree it is
better now.

I'm still getting LOTS of spam in the movie + TV binary groups. I
usually go through them manually to delete the sporger's crap before I
look at the headers. I use Agent which has the feature of downloading
headers and by default ONLY downloads bodies for messages you ask it
to.

Gary R. Schmidt

2024-03-19 06:20:53 UTC

Post by The Horny Goat
I'm still getting LOTS of spam in the movie + TV binary groups. I
usually go through them manually to delete the sporger's crap before I
look at the headers. I use Agent which has the feature of downloading
headers and by default ONLY downloads bodies for messages you ask it
to.

Possibly because Easynews don't do any filtering...

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Scott Lurndal

2024-03-19 15:36:29 UTC

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:27:43 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

I'm still getting LOTS of spam in the movie + TV binary groups.

Most of the free providers (e-s, etc.) don't support the binary
groups at all.

The rest don't bother filtering them.

Dimensional Traveler

2024-03-19 17:48:17 UTC

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:27:43 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

I'm still getting LOTS of spam in the movie + TV binary groups.

Most of the free providers (e-s, etc.) don't support the binary
groups at all.
The rest don't bother filtering them.

Filtering the binaries would be contrary to their grey internet aspect.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

2024-03-19 17:53:05 UTC

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:27:43 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

I'm still getting LOTS of spam in the movie + TV binary groups.

Most of the free providers (e-s, etc.) don't support the binary
groups at all.
The rest don't bother filtering them.

Filtering the binaries would be contrary to their grey internet aspect.

Not even sure how you could do that.

--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Scott Dorsey

2024-03-17 19:02:35 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal
I would point out that since google shut down, there hasn't been
any spam to filter. Nor was there any before the recent
google thai spam storm.

Oh, there certainly has been. It's been pretty effectively dealt with
however, but you can look at the control messages and see what is going
on under the hood if you want to see them kicking along. The volume has
not been huge and the filtering system has been very effective.

The google spam storm (and it wasn't just Thai, it was in a dozen languages
including English) was an outlier because the volume was so huge that it
completely broke down the filtering system which has worked so well for
so long.

Post by Scott Lurndal
My usenet provider refused to filter that Thai spam because
they don't filter or moderate at all.

That's good, but someone upstream of them likely does. Which is the real
beauty of usenet.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

r***@myaccess.ca

2024-03-17 03:51:09 UTC

In article <usvh14$1pioj$***@dont-email.me>, ***@gmail.com
says...

Post by Lynn McGuire
YASID "Sci-fi Books, Humans with Animal genes/modifications?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1bcw0l7/scifi_books_humans_with_animal_genesmodifications/
"I read a book maybe 10 years or more ago, set in a future where
humanity had played with gene splicing/gene therapy to the point where
it was entirely common to see people with animal attributes. There was a
whole community of peoples who had Cat/Lion genes who had some feline
features and some of their agility, people with snake genes that had
some scaled patterns on their skin and had sensuous, smooth movements,
and so on. I?ve been trying to find this book for YEARS, but I have no
idea what it was called and can?t really remember the plot except that
there was a conflict between ?normal? humans and those who had their
genes modified. Any help, suggestions, or even recommendations about
similar books?"

Reminded of _Beasts_ by John Crowley

Lynn McGuire

2024-03-17 04:19:10 UTC