Hello? Anyone here?

[Robert Woodward]

One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).

I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
any present:

I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for

Yes, there are people here.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

It is Black Friday and nodes of aquistion are driving behavior.
If I was not poor I might well want to be shopping.

bliss

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

I have been bingeing "Dexter" on Netflix all day between running errands.

I am going to take my 86 year old father to go see our Aggies beat the
hell out of Texas University on Saturday. Or, maybe he is taking me
since he got the tickets.

Lynn

[Tony Nance]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

I have been bingeing "Dexter" on Netflix all day between running errands.
I am going to take my 86 year old father to go see our Aggies beat the
hell out of Texas University on Saturday.

A friend of mine put both kids through A&M (one in Mech Eng), and his
ex-wife got her degree from Texas. He is very much rooting for the same
result you are.

Post by Lynn McGuire
Or, maybe he is taking me since he got the tickets.

This is the first year we didn't get season tickets since 1988. It was
always fun to do, but turning a 7-8 hour commitment with 100K+ people
(and all that entails) into a 3-4 hour commitment in the comfort of my
home has gone pretty well.

Tony

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Tony Nance

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

I have been bingeing "Dexter" on Netflix all day between running errands.
I am going to take my 86 year old father to go see our Aggies beat the
hell out of Texas University on Saturday.

A friend of mine put both kids through A&M (one in Mech Eng), and his
ex-wife got her degree from Texas. He is very much rooting for the same
result you are.

Post by Lynn McGuire
Or, maybe he is taking me since he got the tickets.

This is the first year we didn't get season tickets since 1988. It was
always fun to do, but turning a 7-8 hour commitment with 100K+ people
(and all that entails) into a 3-4 hour commitment in the comfort of my
home has gone pretty well.
Tony

My Dad buys tickets every year. He has armchair tickets halfway up the
second deck at the 30 yard line. Great seats.

I got a degree in Mechanical Engineering from TAMU in 1982 with a minor
in Chemical Engineering and a minor in math.

Lynn

[Tony Nance]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list)

You're hypothesizing a third kind of puppy? Two was too many already!
- Tony

Post by Robert Woodward
or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 21:59:54 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

Yes it is. But (IIRC) it /was/ on-topic!

Thanksgiving, in the USA, is, of course, a major holiday, and I
believe the East Coast is currently snowed in down to at least
Northern Florida, but that's no excuse for residents of other places.

Post by Robert Woodward
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).

I strange affliction and, no doubt, an irritating one.

Post by Robert Woodward
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

I am divided on this point. While I would think even nominating a book
one hasn't read is ungood, it is, of course, a part of block voting to
vote with others in the same block, so not nominating them is ungood.

Fortunately for me, I never have and never plan to nominate anything
for anything.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 21:59:54 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

Yes it is. But (IIRC) it /was/ on-topic!
Thanksgiving, in the USA, is, of course, a major holiday, and I
believe the East Coast is currently snowed in down to at least
Northern Florida, but that's no excuse for residents of other places.

Post by Robert Woodward
I should try to fill the void; but I find myself unable to write very
quickly (it doesn't help that I keep deleting words after I write them).

I strange affliction and, no doubt, an irritating one.

Post by Robert Woodward
I did finish something after 15 minutes of struggle, thus a question for
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

I am divided on this point. While I would think even nominating a book
one hasn't read is ungood, it is, of course, a part of block voting to
vote with others in the same block, so not nominating them is ungood.
Fortunately for me, I never have and never plan to nominate anything
for anything.

Here in northern MA we got a dusting of snow last night. Further north
snow was over foot. It looks like upper NY will get slammed with lake
effect snow this winter.

For reasons, I had to drive in the vicinity to two major area
malls on 'Black Friday' - both were slammed with customers.

This year, we didn't do Thanksgiving dinner at home - we went
out to a restaurant 45 miles away that was doing a
Thanksgiving buffet. It was very nice, though spendy. There
were sand and salt trucks on the roads as we returned.

pt

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 12:08:48 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer
Here in northern MA we got a dusting of snow last night. Further north
snow was over foot. It looks like upper NY will get slammed with lake
effect snow this winter.
For reasons, I had to drive in the vicinity to two major area
malls on 'Black Friday' - both were slammed with customers.
This year, we didn't do Thanksgiving dinner at home - we went
out to a restaurant 45 miles away that was doing a
Thanksgiving buffet. It was very nice, though spendy. There
were sand and salt trucks on the roads as we returned.

Here in Vancouver BC we've had a snowfall and have woken up to snow on
the lawn but not the road but mostly it's been high 30s / low 40s
around here. (And we live at the foot of the mountain higher up than
most locals)

[Paul S Person]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 12:08:48 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer
Here in northern MA we got a dusting of snow last night. Further north
snow was over foot. It looks like upper NY will get slammed with lake
effect snow this winter.
For reasons, I had to drive in the vicinity to two major area
malls on 'Black Friday' - both were slammed with customers.
This year, we didn't do Thanksgiving dinner at home - we went
out to a restaurant 45 miles away that was doing a
Thanksgiving buffet. It was very nice, though spendy. There
were sand and salt trucks on the roads as we returned.

Here in Vancouver BC we've had a snowfall and have woken up to snow on
the lawn but not the road but mostly it's been high 30s / low 40s
around here. (And we live at the foot of the mountain higher up than
most locals)

No snow here, so far.

I hoping this will be true until late January. I have Jury Duty
starting 1/8/25 which could go on a couple weeks if I actually end up
on a jury.

Their methods have grown more sophisticated: instead of just telling
me up front where to go (there are three possibilities), I have to
wait until I am contacted. This means I have to plan for all three.
And I have to be alert on 1/7/25 (for 1/8/25) and 1/8/25. Adding snow
to the mix might produce more uncertainties, as even the date might
change.

OTOH, it could be just /one/ (1) day; the last time it was two days of
waiting around to be formed into jury pools and possibly selected. In
fact, if I am /not/ contacted by 4:30 PM 1/8/25, I can consider my
duty done. So the new method does have its advantages.

[Michael Benveniste]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

I guess people had different things to do, shocking as that might
seem. Myself, I tried to read myself to sleep with "Tress of the
Emerald Sea" last night, but ended up finishing the story instead.

[William Hyde]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

This may be the first time ever that there have been more posts on
rec.games.chess.misc than here. Certainly the first in the last couple
of decades.

The chess group is experiencing a micro-renaissance, with posters mostly
from Canada and Europe, hence not impacted by American Thanksgiving.

William Hyde

[D]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

This may be the first time ever that there have been more posts on
rec.games.chess.misc than here. Certainly the first in the last couple of
decades.
The chess group is experiencing a micro-renaissance, with posters mostly from
Canada and Europe, hence not impacted by American Thanksgiving.

Ahhhh.... thanksgiving! That would explain the decrease in messages! Yes,
rgcm is the group to be in. But only for real (chess)men!

Post by William Hyde
William Hyde

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:34:20 -0500, William Hyde

Post by William Hyde

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

This may be the first time ever that there have been more posts on
rec.games.chess.misc than here. Certainly the first in the last couple
of decades.
The chess group is experiencing a micro-renaissance, with posters mostly
from Canada and Europe, hence not impacted by American Thanksgiving.
William Hyde

Heh heh - well in the last 9 months the Chess world has seen a
Candidates Tournament, the Chess Olympics and a World Championship
match. (Since I'm a Canadian and the Candidates' was in Toronto I was
especially interested)

(The World Championship is in Singapore and I've watched a couple of
games on Youtube but here on the west coast what's a nice time in
Singapore is 1 am in Vancouver so I mostly watch the Youtube feed the
next morning on my second screen while I do my real work on the main
screen - you've probably done much the same with the Winter
Olympics....)

[Mike Van Pelt]

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

My understanding of the "puppies" thing was that the "Sad
Puppies" (name inspired by that "Give to the Humane Society"
ad with all the forlorn looking doggies in it) thought that
the kinds of stories they liked (and thought a bunch of
other people liked) were getting short shrift at the Hugos,
so made a list of what they considered worthy works, and said
"Here's some stuff we like that you might like as well; if so,
consider nominating it for a Hugo."

I don't see anything wrong with that, though it sure got a
lot of people upset.

A separate issue, of course, from Vox Diaboli, who glommed
onto the campaign with his "Rabid Puppies" block, which,
as you said, was definitely block voting.

The upset seemed to me to be a lot more about politics than
about quality of the works. And conflating the original
(arguably legitimate) campaign with the (reprehensible)
block vote.

I wasn't involved in either group, being a non-attender of
Worldcon that year.

I'd kind of lost interest in the Hugos years before, anyway;
little of the kind of thing I like ever seems to get nominated,
at least, since "The Mote in God's Eye." I note in particular
that no stories from Analog *ever* get nominated. (Or, hardly
ever. I can't think the last time I saw one on the list.)

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

My understanding of the "puppies" thing was that the "Sad
Puppies" (name inspired by that "Give to the Humane Society"
ad with all the forlorn looking doggies in it) thought that
the kinds of stories they liked (and thought a bunch of
other people liked) were getting short shrift at the Hugos,
so made a list of what they considered worthy works, and said
"Here's some stuff we like that you might like as well; if so,
consider nominating it for a Hugo."

<snip>

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I'd kind of lost interest in the Hugos years before, anyway;
little of the kind of thing I like ever seems to get nominated,
at least, since "The Mote in God's Eye." I note in particular
that no stories from Analog *ever* get nominated. (Or, hardly
ever. I can't think the last time I saw one on the list.)

Last story from Analog that was nominated was "Ray of Light" by
Brad R. Torgerson in 2012. BTW, last story from Asimov's (which had
multiple entries just about every year before 2010 in each of the 3
non-novel categories) was "Wind Will Rove" by Sarah Pinsker in 2018.

[Michael Ikeda]

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo
nominations. While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block
voting, the Sad Puppies appeared to be different. Either there
were secret puppies with their own nominations lists (which
overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of the Sad Puppies were
only nominating works that they had read. If the latter was the
case, while they could be accused of ungood literary taste, was
this block voting?

My understanding of the "puppies" thing was that the "Sad
Puppies" (name inspired by that "Give to the Humane Society"
ad with all the forlorn looking doggies in it) thought that
the kinds of stories they liked (and thought a bunch of
other people liked) were getting short shrift at the Hugos,
so made a list of what they considered worthy works, and said
"Here's some stuff we like that you might like as well; if so,
consider nominating it for a Hugo."

Not quite. They nominated a specific organized slate of works (at
least in Sad Puppies 3). After the blowback to their slate the
"Sads" backed off the next year but VD and his "Rsbids" continued
on for a while.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I don't see anything wrong with that, though it sure got a
lot of people upset.
A separate issue, of course, from Vox Diaboli, who glommed
onto the campaign with his "Rabid Puppies" block, which,
as you said, was definitely block voting.

"Glommed in" isn't the right description. He waS deliberately
brought in by the "Sad Puppies" and played an active role in
selecting their slate. And then (partly) betrayed them by creating
his own slate that included most of their nominations and a few of
his own.

(Naomi Kritzer summarized some of the events at
https://naomikritzer.com/2015/04/13/vox-days-involvement-in-the-
sad-puppies-slate/)

(Carnestros Felaptron colleded links to his detailed history of the
whole matter (and the prelude and aftermath) at Debarkle:
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/debarkle/)

[James Nicoll]

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

My understanding of the "puppies" thing was that the "Sad
Puppies" (name inspired by that "Give to the Humane Society"
ad with all the forlorn looking doggies in it) thought that
the kinds of stories they liked (and thought a bunch of
other people liked) were getting short shrift at the Hugos,
so made a list of what they considered worthy works, and said
"Here's some stuff we like that you might like as well; if so,
consider nominating it for a Hugo."

Nah, it started off as a scheme to get Larry Correia in particular
a Hugo, and "worthy works" were defined as "stuff Larry wrote",
to which "stuff Larry's pals" wrote being added later on. They
had an evolving set of justications, often contradictory because
it doesn't seem to have occurred to them people could read their
old posts.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I don't see anything wrong with that, though it sure got a
lot of people upset.

Because block-voting was legal (so the votes couldn't be tossed)
but completely against convention.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
A separate issue, of course, from Vox Diaboli, who glommed
onto the campaign with his "Rabid Puppies" block, which,
as you said, was definitely block voting.

Nope. Vox got invited in by Larry and then hijacked the idea
with more effective organization. The Rabid Puppies are an
offshoot of the Sad Puppies but definitely connected to them.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
The upset seemed to me to be a lot more about politics than
about quality of the works. And conflating the original
(arguably legitimate) campaign with the (reprehensible)
block vote.

Please point out to me the Sad/Rabid Puppies nominees (human
shields aside) you think were worthy of a Hugo.

(Chuck Tingle being a hilarious exception. VD definitely misjudged
that particular human shield)

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I wasn't involved in either group, being a non-attender of
Worldcon that year.
I'd kind of lost interest in the Hugos years before, anyway;
little of the kind of thing I like ever seems to get nominated,
at least, since "The Mote in God's Eye." I note in particular
that no stories from Analog *ever* get nominated. (Or, hardly
ever. I can't think the last time I saw one on the list.)

It really can't help that the Big Three really have not weathered
the last 40 years very well. I don't see them on magazine shelves
anymore, whereas it's easy to find the online magazines. Obs
distributor consolidation is part of that but then there are
issues like Asimov's letting their online board devolve into a
sewer before dropping it and F&SF making it next to impossible
to determine if they are still in business at all.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

My understanding of the "puppies" thing was that the "Sad
Puppies" (name inspired by that "Give to the Humane Society"
ad with all the forlorn looking doggies in it) thought that
the kinds of stories they liked (and thought a bunch of
other people liked) were getting short shrift at the Hugos,
so made a list of what they considered worthy works, and said
"Here's some stuff we like that you might like as well; if so,
consider nominating it for a Hugo."

Nah, it started off as a scheme to get Larry Correia in particular
a Hugo, and "worthy works" were defined as "stuff Larry wrote",
to which "stuff Larry's pals" wrote being added later on. They
had an evolving set of justications, often contradictory because
it doesn't seem to have occurred to them people could read their
old posts.

It is my impression that the small size of the nomination pool offended
Correia's knowledge of statistics was a factor.

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I don't see anything wrong with that, though it sure got a
lot of people upset.

Because block-voting was legal (so the votes couldn't be tossed)
but completely against convention.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
A separate issue, of course, from Vox Diaboli, who glommed
onto the campaign with his "Rabid Puppies" block, which,
as you said, was definitely block voting.

Nope. Vox got invited in by Larry and then hijacked the idea
with more effective organization. The Rabid Puppies are an
offshoot of the Sad Puppies but definitely connected to them.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
The upset seemed to me to be a lot more about politics than
about quality of the works. And conflating the original
(arguably legitimate) campaign with the (reprehensible)
block vote.

Please point out to me the Sad/Rabid Puppies nominees (human
shields aside) you think were worthy of a Hugo.

Note that the 2016 Sad Puppie list included 3 Hugo winners. As for the
2015 list ... what was especially wrong with Arlan Andrew's "Flow" and
Michael Flynn's "The Journeyman: In the Stone House"? (Other than both
were published in _Analog_)

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I wasn't involved in either group, being a non-attender of
Worldcon that year.

You missed a great convention. Swanwick was worth the price
of admission alone.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
I'd kind of lost interest in the Hugos years before, anyway;
little of the kind of thing I like ever seems to get nominated,
at least, since "The Mote in God's Eye." I note in particular
that no stories from Analog *ever* get nominated. (Or, hardly
ever. I can't think the last time I saw one on the list.)

So submit them for nomination!
--scott

[BCFD 36]

Post by Robert Woodward
One post in 24 hours; this is really bad.

I've been busy! On Thanksgiving, I Webered a turkey for dinner. Then,
yesterday I was finishing my woodshed among other things. Then I got
sent to the store, and then had to go by the firehouse to pick up some
info on "special districts". This info will put you right to sleep.

Then I had to wash my hair and study for a midterm. Wait... That was
what was used on me in college. They could have just said "You are a
dork and I don't want to go out with you."

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Robert Woodward
I once spent a good deal of time studying the 2015 Hugo nominations.
While the Rabid Puppies were definitely block voting, the Sad Puppies
appeared to be different. Either there were secret puppies with their
own nominations lists (which overlapped the Sad Puppy list) or many of
the Sad Puppies were only nominating works that they had read. If the
latter was the case, while they could be accused of ungood literary
taste, was this block voting?

The Sad Puppies were people with a legitimate gripe about the content
of the Hugo nominations and winners, and they were honestly trying to
change things for what they considered to be the better. You could
argue that they were bloc voting but they were not trying to promote
specific works quite so much as a whole genre of works. You may or
may not agree with their aims but they were legitimate readers who
wanted change.

The Rabid Puppies were a bunch of kids who like to destroy things,
who found the Hugo system an easy target to try to destroy. They
did not actually care about what got nominated as long as they could
piss off as many people as possible. Bloc voting was a technique
they used for this.
--scott