Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes

[John Savard]

I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is the fourth movie in the reboot of
the Planet of the Apes series, which started from a different basic
premise than the originals.

A friend of mine took me with him to see the movie, out of gratitude
for my having heled him with his computer.

I enjoyed this movie. It's been praised for lovable chasracters and
lush visual effects; that praise is spot on. It has... a twist ending
that naturally I must not spoil.

But one thing I can speak of, since it is present right from the
beginning of this movie: it has achieved something rare, making it
reminiscent of the movie Avatar. It's a blockbuster movie that was
actually _improved_ by being "woke", a characteristic which has ruined
several other movies.

John Savard

[Paul S Person]

On Tue, 14 May 2024 08:35:13 -0600, John Savard

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

I saw it in the Army. One of the sequels had some sort of rocket
launch at the end. It didn't happen, which is good because it would
have destroyed the Earth or the last refuge of Man or something (my
memory is vague). I saw this in a theater that used carbon-arc
lighting for its projector. The carbon rod [1] had a wet spot at this
point, so we never got to see how it was stopped. A Babylon 5 movie
(ie, not part of the series) did the same thing when I saw it on TV,
but that was probably a really bad DVD effect (ie, the dummies who
scanned it didn't catch it when their equipment failed).

The surprise isn't that Army Post Theater projection equipment was old
or that the projectionists were incompetent. The surprise a few years
later, back in Seattle, when the same level of incompetence was seen
in an actual theater. Presumably, the projectionist had learned his
trade in the Army. Just not very well.

In the Army, of course, this sort of thing was protected by Military
Discipline, which forbids rioting in this situation. But in real life
... these guys were definitely potentially in danger.

[1] If there were two, then one of them.

Post by John Savard
Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is the fourth movie in the reboot of
the Planet of the Apes series, which started from a different basic
premise than the originals.
A friend of mine took me with him to see the movie, out of gratitude
for my having heled him with his computer.
I enjoyed this movie. It's been praised for lovable chasracters and
lush visual effects; that praise is spot on. It has... a twist ending
that naturally I must not spoil.
But one thing I can speak of, since it is present right from the
beginning of this movie: it has achieved something rare, making it
reminiscent of the movie Avatar. It's a blockbuster movie that was
actually _improved_ by being "woke", a characteristic which has ruined
several other movies.

Sadly, being reminiscent -- in any way -- of /Avatar/ is not a
positive feature for me.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 14 May 2024 08:35:13 -0600, John Savard

<snip>

Post by Paul S Person
I saw it [The original. ed] in the Army. One of the sequels had some sort of rocket
launch at the end. It didn't happen, which is good because it would
have destroyed the Earth or the last refuge of Man or something (my
memory is vague). I saw this in a theater that used carbon-arc
lighting for its projector. The carbon rod [1] had a wet spot at this
point, so we never got to see how it was stopped. A Babylon 5 movie
(ie, not part of the series) did the same thing when I saw it on TV,
but that was probably a really bad DVD effect (ie, the dummies who
scanned it didn't catch it when their equipment failed).

<snip>

Post by Paul S Person
[1] If there were two, then one of them.

There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

The more likely cause would be a fault in the
mechanism that maintains a consistent gap
between the electrodes as they burn up (which
the operator needs to adjust to the burn rate
for the particular carbons being used).

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Post by Scott Lurndal
The more likely cause would be a fault in the
mechanism that maintains a consistent gap
between the electrodes as they burn up (which
the operator needs to adjust to the burn rate
for the particular carbons being used).

It doesn't really do that very well (at least on typical lamphouses) so
it always requires the projectionist to spend a little time fiddling with
the rheostat that runs the motor to keep things stable without much
tinkering. If the gap is getting too wide or too narrow you can tell
pretty easily on screen without even having to look at the sight glass
on the lamphouse. But you have to be paying attention.

My experience with AFEES projectionists is they were all pretty good
and pretty careful (and much better than the Navy guys). And the selections
at the AFEES theatres were great and included films like Godzilla On
Monster Island, The Devil Bat, and Au Pair Girls. I spent much of my
childhood hanging out in the booths at AFEES theatres.
--scott

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Post by Scott Lurndal
The more likely cause would be a fault in the
mechanism that maintains a consistent gap
between the electrodes as they burn up (which
the operator needs to adjust to the burn rate
for the particular carbons being used).

It doesn't really do that very well (at least on typical lamphouses) so
it always requires the projectionist to spend a little time fiddling with
the rheostat that runs the motor to keep things stable without much
tinkering. If the gap is getting too wide or too narrow you can tell
pretty easily on screen without even having to look at the sight glass
on the lamphouse. But you have to be paying attention.
My experience with AFEES projectionists is they were all pretty good
and pretty careful (and much better than the Navy guys). And the selections
at the AFEES theatres were great and included films like Godzilla On
Monster Island, The Devil Bat, and Au Pair Girls. I spent much of my
childhood hanging out in the booths at AFEES theatres.
--scott

Saw many films at AAFES theaters at Fort Jackson. Before every movie, they
would play the "Star Spangled Banner" as the audience stood and saluted
(or held our hands over our hearts).

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Saw many films at AAFES theaters at Fort Jackson. Before every movie, they
would play the "Star Spangled Banner" as the audience stood and saluted
(or held our hands over our hearts).

Always! I think Arisia's film archives includes 16mm and 35mm versions of
those from the Air Force and Navy back in the sixties.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Not where we were. The story we were told was that they didn't have
that many, so they had to use what they had and do the best they
could.

We did eventually get a new! Base Theater. For its inaugural film it
showed /The Hindenberg/ (judging from IMDb, this as a pre-release
version shown to the troops to see how it went down).

It was anamorphic widescreen. The projectionist forgot to use the
right lens. The Base Commander was in the audience. He was not happy.

Something similar happened with a film I say decades later.

But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
The more likely cause would be a fault in the
mechanism that maintains a consistent gap
between the electrodes as they burn up (which
the operator needs to adjust to the burn rate
for the particular carbons being used).

It doesn't really do that very well (at least on typical lamphouses) so
it always requires the projectionist to spend a little time fiddling with
the rheostat that runs the motor to keep things stable without much
tinkering. If the gap is getting too wide or too narrow you can tell
pretty easily on screen without even having to look at the sight glass
on the lamphouse. But you have to be paying attention.
My experience with AFEES projectionists is they were all pretty good
and pretty careful (and much better than the Navy guys). And the selections
at the AFEES theatres were great and included films like Godzilla On
Monster Island, The Devil Bat, and Au Pair Girls. I spent much of my
childhood hanging out in the booths at AFEES theatres.

On the whole, they generally managed to do the job. But "generally" is
not "always". The selections may have been great (and many were [1])
but they were often pre-release versions with the troops as a test
audience.

One of my DVDs (/The Big Sleep/) has two versions of the film: the
official release and the pre-release version shown to the troops. The
feedback caused those strange "camera-mugging" scenes by Bacall,
dropped some of the actual "detective work" scenes, and had a re-shot
ending because the actress who played the missing wife in the
pre-release version wasn't available for the reshoot to give Bacall
more screen time.

OTOH, /Star Wars/ didn't play in AAFES for a while after it was
released. The reason is the way I saw it: projected by me with a small
projector onto a wall. Lucas (or his attorneys) didn't want any of the
small-size prints (14mm?) to "escape" the AAFES system for a while.

[1] When /M*A*S*H/ played at Fort Ord, the Defense Language Institute
at Monterey got it last. When I left the theater after the last
/scheduled/ perfomance at Ft Ord, there was a long line if people
waiting to get in to an extra showing the people-in-charge had gotten
permission to put on. I knew people who saw it, mostly in various
theaters on Ft Ord itself, all seven of the days it was playing there.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Not where we were. The story we were told was that they didn't have
that many, so they had to use what they had and do the best they
could.
We did eventually get a new! Base Theater. For its inaugural film it
showed /The Hindenberg/ (judging from IMDb, this as a pre-release
version shown to the troops to see how it went down).
It was anamorphic widescreen. The projectionist forgot to use the
right lens. The Base Commander was in the audience. He was not happy.

So it went down like a le(a)d zeppelin?

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Not where we were. The story we were told was that they didn't have
that many, so they had to use what they had and do the best they
could.
We did eventually get a new! Base Theater. For its inaugural film it
showed /The Hindenberg/ (judging from IMDb, this as a pre-release
version shown to the troops to see how it went down).
It was anamorphic widescreen. The projectionist forgot to use the
right lens. The Base Commander was in the audience. He was not happy.

So it went down like a le(a)d zeppelin?

To be fair, Mythbusters flew a lead zeppelin...

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Not where we were. The story we were told was that they didn't have
that many, so they had to use what they had and do the best they
could.
We did eventually get a new! Base Theater. For its inaugural film it
showed /The Hindenberg/ (judging from IMDb, this as a pre-release
version shown to the troops to see how it went down).
It was anamorphic widescreen. The projectionist forgot to use the
right lens. The Base Commander was in the audience. He was not happy.

To be very picky, it's _The Hindenburg_ (1975).
Or _Th Hndbrg_ is what you saw, I suppose.
Someone has made Wikipedia call it "highly
speculative", but it's based on a true airship.
The rest? I guess maybe.

Post by Paul S Person
Something similar happened with a film I say decades later.
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_? :-)

A blank blue screen throughout. The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

ObSF: when _Star Trek III_ starts out tiny and
monochrome.

[Paul S Person]

On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Lurndal
There are two, and "wet spot" as the cause is
incredibly unlikely given the temperature
of the arc. They're solid carbon (think old
carbon battery electrode) rods coated in copper.

When carbons are kept in the damp, they get absorb moisture... and then they
shatter when they get hot. A competent projectionist can swap it out in
a matter of seconds without even stopping the film.

Not where we were. The story we were told was that they didn't have
that many, so they had to use what they had and do the best they
could.
We did eventually get a new! Base Theater. For its inaugural film it
showed /The Hindenberg/ (judging from IMDb, this as a pre-release
version shown to the troops to see how it went down).
It was anamorphic widescreen. The projectionist forgot to use the
right lens. The Base Commander was in the audience. He was not happy.

To be very picky, it's _The Hindenburg_ (1975).
Or _Th Hndbrg_ is what you saw, I suppose.
Someone has made Wikipedia call it "highly
speculative", but it's based on a true airship.
The rest? I guess maybe.

Thanks for catching the typo.

The effect of not using the right lens is to make everything (and
everyone) look /very very tall and very very thin/. We saw the title
all right, it just look ... squeezed.

The correct lens was applied once the error was noticed. This didn't
help the Base Commander's mood.

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
Something similar happened with a film I say decades later.
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_? :-)
A blank blue screen throughout. The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.

The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! The
plot was about the monetization of water by a Greedy Corporation (one
of D's heroes, no doubt) who sequestered all the water available to
the protagonist's home town, held the town up for ransom, and starting
killing whoever resisted. The ending was pretty much what you would
expect.

Post by Robert Carnegie
ObSF: when _Star Trek III_ starts out tiny and
monochrome.

IIRC, /Windjammer/ started out small as well.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_? :-)
A blank blue screen throughout. The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or... You said art film.
So, satire?

In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites. The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

Post by Paul S Person
The plot was about the monetization of water by a Greedy Corporation (one
of D's heroes, no doubt) who sequestered all the water available to
the protagonist's home town, held the town up for ransom, and starting
killing whoever resisted. The ending was pretty much what you would
expect.

A remote-manipulated robot becomes U.S. President
(again), and the tables are turned?

A lot depends on the budget. But wasn't
_Terminator_ pretty cheap?

Post by Paul S Person

ObSF: when _Star Trek III_ starts out tiny and
monochrome.

IIRC, /Windjammer/ started out small as well.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

And there are house-sized 3d-printers:

https://www.mudbots.com/

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

https://www.mudbots.com/

Reminds me of an article I read quite some time ago, stating that 3D
Printing would produce a new Industrial Revolution, although since
Bing brings up references to at least /5/ such already, it is possible
that that phrase has lost its zing.

They were talking about simplifying/eliminating the "tool and die"
industry -- the part that builds the stuff that builds the stuff
people actually buy. And speeding up the development cycle from months
to days.

And not just industry. The film /Salvadore/ has a scene where, after
months of waiting, the wrong prosthetic (a simple one, not something
that would let a person run a marathon or climb Mt. Everest) was
received. Imagine how helpful a 3D printer with a computer with
designs for simple prosthetics that can be printed out overnight.

This would be an example. My house (excluding the basement and the
attic/roof) would fall between Model E25-25H10 and Model E35-35H10 in
size. These are /serious/ pieces of hardware.

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

https://www.mudbots.com/

Note to self, insure you've gotten all articles before replying.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

https://www.mudbots.com/

And 3-d house printers:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/3d-printed-homes-could-help-221842989.html

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 20:51:12 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<snippo>

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Dimensional Traveler
There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

https://www.mudbots.com/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/3d-printed-homes-could-help-221842989.html

This could help, if the cost of the land is reasonable and the
developers using it don't just build "McMansions" priced out of the
reach of the people who need housing most.

There is also the size problem: young people (singles) starting out
don't have a lot of (physical) stuff so don't need a lot of room
(hence college dorms and military barracks); but
couples/pairs-in-general will need more and those with, say, more than
two kids still more. So, in the long run, the trick is to having the
right size of housing available for an affordable price in the right
proportions.

Without, I should note, cutting down every single tree in the area. Or
paving over the parks. Preferably.

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

Does a 3D printer count as a robot>
https://builtin.com/articles/3d-printed-house

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 14:40:17 -0500, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar
happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_?  :-)
A blank blue screen throughout.  The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or...  You said art film.
So, satire?
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites.  The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

There is a Dutch company with an autonomous brick-laying robot in final
testing.

Does a 3D printer count as a robot>
https://builtin.com/articles/3d-printed-house

A stationary robot, perhaps.

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 18 May 2024 20:52:40 +0100, Robert Carnegie

On 15/05/2024 17:52, Paul S Person wrote: >>> Something similar happened with a film I say decades later.

Post by Paul S Person
But the /wierdest/ problem I ever saw -- or, rather, didn't see -- was
when the soundtrack played but there was no picture. Of course, since
this was an "art film", it seemed perfectly possible that that was the
intended experience. When caught, we heard the film being rewound and
then it started again.

Derek Jarman's _Blue_? :-)
A blank blue screen throughout. The narrative
is mostly about being gay in London, and getting
AIDS, so you may have not seen it at the
Base Theater.

No, this was later, in a 10-plex that later became a Sundance theater
and then was sold. (Sundance installed large seats with cupholders,
introduced reserved -- ie, assigned -- seating, and obtained a liquor
license so you had to be 21 to see a PG-13 film. Wierd.) It is,
however, nice to know that my suspicion that the blank screen was
intentional was not entirely unrealistic.
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

So is this science fiction or... You said art film.
So, satire?

Well, shown in a theater commonly regarded as an "art house", anyway.
So, if it wasn't, it could have been. How could I tell until they
restarted it with the visible stuff visible? When all I had was the
sound, "art film" sprung to mind.

Near-future SF. Among other things, it illustrates the idiocy of a
border wall by showing how it ends on the Pacific shore, and so can be
evaded by swimming or boating.

But it wasn't really a satire. A /real/ satire would show the USA
completely bunkered with a Wall on every coast as well as the land
borders. Imagine the maintenance on a thing like that!

Post by Robert Carnegie
In real life, we have robots on production
Lines, in farming now I think, but not quite
on construction sites. The trade prefers safety
violations committed by human machine operators
who are physically present.

These were, as I said, what Heinlein would have called "Waldoes" (I
don't remember the film using the term), working in the USA. Run
remotely from Mexico.

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
The plot was about the monetization of water by a Greedy Corporation (one
of D's heroes, no doubt) who sequestered all the water available to
the protagonist's home town, held the town up for ransom, and starting
killing whoever resisted. The ending was pretty much what you would
expect.

A remote-manipulated robot becomes U.S. President
(again), and the tables are turned?

Nope. But the greedy water company got what was coming to it.

Post by Robert Carnegie
A lot depends on the budget. But wasn't
_Terminator_ pretty cheap?

I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.

When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource. The film I
have been describing did the same thing, on a much smaller scale, but
nobody noticed.

IIRC, California is having problems with water distribution rights as
the value of the resource becomes all too apparent. Much the same can
be said of the Southwest in general, IIRC. My own State, Washington,
has a water emergency declared in all but two counties (one of which I
am in) and the farmers are apparently beginning to feel the pinch.

In time those films which treated water as a valuable resource worth
fighting over (on however small a scale) will be seen as prophetic.

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person

ObSF: when _Star Trek III_ starts out tiny and
monochrome.

IIRC, /Windjammer/ started out small as well.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?

Ever seen Chinatown?

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

"Cite" was referring to the statement that Quantum of Solace was roundly
ridiculed.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

"Cite" was referring to the statement that Quantum of Solace was roundly
ridiculed.

I got /that/ reference, but, in my reply, failed to say "yes, I have
seen /Chinatown/". But that didn't make the point the same way the
other two did. This is because it wasn't about an evil corporation
cornering the market in water for itself -- the water was run by a
public utility.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

I believe that would be the martini.
--scott

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

I believe that would be the martini.
--scott

According to Dave Allen it would be champagne, but I can't find the
clip, I'm fairly sure it was from "Dave Allen in Australia"...

So, a bloke is crawing across the desert, "Water, water, water, ...", he
gasps.
In the distance another bloke appears, also crawling across the desert,
but towards the first bloke.
As the second blokes nears, it becomes apparent that he is in Morning
Dress, and as he passes, is heard to be gasping, "Champagne, champagne,
champagne, ...".

Cheers,
Gary B-)

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:03:05 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"

Post by Gary R. Schmidt

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

I believe that would be the martini.
--scott

According to Dave Allen it would be champagne, but I can't find the
clip, I'm fairly sure it was from "Dave Allen in Australia"...
So, a bloke is crawing across the desert, "Water, water, water, ...", he
gasps.
In the distance another bloke appears, also crawling across the desert,
but towards the first bloke.
As the second blokes nears, it becomes apparent that he is in Morning
Dress, and as he passes, is heard to be gasping, "Champagne, champagne,
champagne, ...".

IIRC, "Moon of Alabama" describes yet another option.

[The Horny Goat]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by James Nicoll
Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

I believe that would be the martini.

Particularly when we've just been discussing James Bond - 'shaken not
stirred' no doubt!

[Paul S Person]

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

Indeed it should. As D would, no doubt, contend.

[vallor]

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 08:53:44 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Which is weird. Shouldn't the free market have responded to scarcity
by providing an alternative to water?

Indeed it should. As D would, no doubt, contend.

Alternatives to water, no. Alternative _sources_ of water -- it's
been talked about.

I remember an SF short story about bringing an iceberg to LA. Couldn't
tell you who wrote it, but I think it was in the 80's.

There are also desalination plants, skipping the water cycle
through adding energy and technology.

BTW, these suggestions are not to meant to support D's ideas;
most definitely not those about regulation and government. For
example, natural monopolies need, at the very least, regulation,
if not government administration.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by vallor
On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 08:53:44 -0700, Paul S Person
I remember an SF short story about bringing an iceberg to LA. Couldn't
tell you who wrote it, but I think it was in the 80's.

That was a plot point in Brewster's Millions in the 80s.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by vallor
On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 08:53:44 -0700, Paul S Person
I remember an SF short story about bringing an iceberg to LA. Couldn't
tell you who wrote it, but I think it was in the 80's.

That was a plot point in Brewster's Millions in the 80s.

It was a seriously considered idea in the 70s/80s. Seems to have fallen
out of favor once we noticed the icebergs were melting.

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 20:54:07 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

These films go beyond mere legal wrangling. Not quite to open war,
though.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?
Ever seen Chinatown?

Oh hell, the southwestern US states, various Native American groups and
Mexico have been legally fighting over the water from the Colorado River
for _decades_.

Decades? ITYM centuries. The oldest acequias were built in the 16th
century, and the Native American tribes in the area have rights
predating those.

Formal rules on the Colorado in particular go back at least to 1907.

https://uttoncenter.unm.edu/resources/research-resources/basic-water-law-concepts.pdf

pt

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?

After all these years? Probably Ebert. I was a big fan of Ebert.
Maltin ducks the issue by saying "prized natural resource" without
revealing what the resource is.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Ever seen Chinatown?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?

After all these years? Probably Ebert. I was a big fan of Ebert.
Maltin ducks the issue by saying "prized natural resource" without
revealing what the resource is.

IIRC, they were kind of stuck with a script that needed another pass
because of a writers' strike.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 09:29:15 +0100, Robert Carnegie
I don't think I ever said it was a big film. It was a film about a
young man who leaves his small town for the big city and eventually
saves the town from dying of thirst. It has some action, but the story
is, how should I say this?, rather ordinary.=20
When the second reboot Bond film (/Qantum of Solace/) come out, it was
roundly ridiculed for treater water as a vital resource.

Cite?

After all these years? Probably Ebert. I was a big fan of Ebert.
Maltin ducks the issue by saying "prized natural resource" without
revealing what the resource is.

IIRC, they were kind of stuck with a script that needed another pass
because of a writers' strike.

Scott Dorsey identified it
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804529/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_6_nm_1_q_Sleep%2520Dealer>.

I don't recall thinking it did (unlike, say, the animated /Beowulf/
[probably
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0442933/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_Beowulf>]);
I found it watchable and the near-future interesting, but not
exceptional.

Not exceptional just as most movies are. If I only watched exceptional
films, I wouldn't see very many.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

That would be Sleep Dealer. We showed it at Arisia and it was a great,
great film which I highly recommend to everyone.

Post by Robert Carnegie
So is this science fiction or... You said art film.
So, satire?

Watch it and decide.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Paul S Person
The film I was referring to was about Mexicans being hired to
manipulate what RAH called "Waldoes" across the border in USA
construction sites. At last, Mexican labor without the Mexican! P

That would be Sleep Dealer. We showed it at Arisia and it was a great,
great film which I highly recommend to everyone.

Yes it would.

Thanks for identifying it.

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Robert Carnegie
So is this science fiction or... You said art film.
So, satire?

Watch it and decide.

[Mike Van Pelt]

Post by Paul S Person
I saw it in the Army. One of the sequels had some sort of rocket
launch at the end. It didn't happen, which is good because it would
have destroyed the Earth or the last refuge of Man or something (my
memory is vague).

If this was the second movie ("Escape From the Planet of the Apes"),
and had Charleston Heston doing pretty much a cameo at the end, well

...


spoilers


...
...
...
...
...

They didn't stop it. Charleston Heson't character set off the
cobalt bomb. Somehow, Zira and Cornelius and one other chimp
had managed to get themselved launched back to Earth. This
wasn't explained, considering their tech level, but Cornelius
(Roddy McDowell) said he saw the Earth melt.

My favorite rendition of this ending is Mad Magazine's.

"Are you going to set off the bomb?"

"No, I'm calling my agent, he's got to get me out of
this cockamamie series!"

"You mean there are more sequels?!?"

"YES! And anyone surviving this one is IN IT!!"

"Here, let me press that button!"

[Mike Van Pelt]

... Charleston Heston ...
... Charleston Heson't

Dang auto-corrupt....

[Paul S Person]

On Tue, 14 May 2024 21:14:57 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Paul S Person
I saw it in the Army. One of the sequels had some sort of rocket
launch at the end. It didn't happen, which is good because it would
have destroyed the Earth or the last refuge of Man or something (my
memory is vague).

If this was the second movie ("Escape From the Planet of the Apes"),
and had Charleston Heston doing pretty much a cameo at the end, well

Thanks for this.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
...
spoilers
...
...
...
...
...
They didn't stop it. Charleston Heson't character set off the
cobalt bomb. Somehow, Zira and Cornelius and one other chimp
had managed to get themselved launched back to Earth. This
wasn't explained, considering their tech level, but Cornelius
(Roddy McDowell) said he saw the Earth melt.

Oh, well.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
My favorite rendition of this ending is Mad Magazine's.
"Are you going to set off the bomb?"
"No, I'm calling my agent, he's got to get me out of
this cockamamie series!"
"You mean there are more sequels?!?"
"YES! And anyone surviving this one is IN IT!!"
"Here, let me press that button!"

That's MAD all right.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.
Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is the fourth movie in the reboot of
the Planet of the Apes series, which started from a different basic
premise than the originals.
A friend of mine took me with him to see the movie, out of gratitude
for my having heled him with his computer.
I enjoyed this movie. It's been praised for lovable chasracters and
lush visual effects; that praise is spot on. It has... a twist ending
that naturally I must not spoil.

Does it involve the Statue of Liberty?

[John Savard]

On Tue, 14 May 2024 14:15:15 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by John Savard
I enjoyed this movie. It's been praised for lovable chasracters and
lush visual effects; that praise is spot on. It has... a twist ending
that naturally I must not spoil.

Does it involve the Statue of Liberty?

No, not in any way whatsoever. Nor even Mega-Maid.

John Savard

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.
--scott

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.
--scott

Fun fact: _Bridge On The River Kwai_, same author..

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Fun fact: _Bridge On The River Kwai_, same author..

Also well worth reading! But interestingly, the book that got me started
reading Boulle's work was _Ears of the Jungle_ which is slightly science
fiction but based on an actual US Army program.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

I believe I did.

The ending (IIRC) was a lot closer to the remake's.

[John Savard]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Actually, I did once read Monkey Planet by Pierre Boulle. In English
translation, though, not the original.

John Savard

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by John Savard

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Actually, I did once read Monkey Planet by Pierre Boulle. In English
translation, though, not the original.

In another recent thread, it was mentioned that in French, there aren't
separate words for 'monkey' and 'ape'. IIRC, 'singe' covers both.

pt

[Charles Packer]

Post by John Savard

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Actually, I did once read Monkey Planet by Pierre Boulle. In English
translation, though, not the original.
John Savard

I understand from Wikipedia that the book has a framing story about
a man and a woman in a spaceship who discover the manuscript of the
main story. What was the point of that?

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Charles Packer
I understand from Wikipedia that the book has a framing story about
a man and a woman in a spaceship who discover the manuscript of the
main story. What was the point of that?

Those are revealed to be apes who think that the idea of intelligent
humans pushes credibility too much.

[Charles Packer]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

I understand from Wikipedia that the book has a framing story about a
man and a woman in a spaceship who discover the manuscript of the main
story. What was the point of that?

Those are revealed to be apes who think that the idea of intelligent
humans pushes credibility too much.

Ahh, so that's why the Wikpedia article refers only to "a rich couple,"
leaving open the question of a couple of...what?

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Charles Packer

Post by Christian Weisgerber

I understand from Wikipedia that the book has a framing story about a
man and a woman in a spaceship who discover the manuscript of the main
story. What was the point of that?

Those are revealed to be apes who think that the idea of intelligent
humans pushes credibility too much.

Ahh, so that's why the Wikpedia article refers only to "a rich couple,"
leaving open the question of a couple of...what?

STOP IT WITH THE SPOILERS! STOP IT!
--scott

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

I did read Boulle's novel and found it poor. Extracted from my
20-year old review:

[...]
The story is hopelessly naïve. Three guys just hop onto a space ship,
designed by a genius professor of course, travel hundreds of light years
without giving much thought to the fact that they will only return after
centuries of relative time, and parade around on a strange planet like
tourists. I mean, this may have seemed plausible at Verne's time, but a
century later?

The protagonist, Ulysse Mérou, is a fool. Humans are the crown of
creation, apes are lowly beasts. If they had met intelligent tentacle
monsters, that would have been fine, but apes? Preposterous. Come on,
you idiot, this is a strange planet, face the facts! I would have been
preoccupied with figuring out how a different planet came to be
populated by primate species so similar to their terrestrial
counterparts. Parallel evolution doesn't cut it. But this mystery never
comes to the mind of the narrator and we're forced to just accept the
absurdity. And of course there are real anatomical differences that
account for the fact that humans behave as humans and apes behave as
apes on Earth. On Soror, we're told, the only difference are the
exchanged roles. Primatologists will have a heart attack.

The main shocker is supposed to be the revelation that apes actually
succeeded humans as the top species on Soror. Apart from being
intrinsically implausible as depicted, where's the problem? Obviously
humanity _will_ evolve or perish. The whole book is steeped in outdated
mindsets, and I can't tell whether the author tries to mock them or just
considers them normal.
[...]

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

I did read Boulle's novel and found it poor.

He did some nice short work. The collection _Time Out of Mind_ contains
some quirky stuff (along with a few things that aren't SF).

Scanning the contents, I'll call out:

"Time Out of Mind" features a transtemporal war, shown from the point of view
of a witness who was just trying to have a quiet glass of wine at a cafe.

"The Perfect Robot" points to something that may be necessary to get real AI.

"The Lunians" is an interesting take on first contact.

"Love and Gravity" is kind of silly; Niven would have written it if Boulle
hadn't gotten there first.

"E=mc^2" shows that equality is a symmetric relation.

It's been nine years since I last read it, so I can't say much about a lot
of the other stories. I do so miss the wire racks!

<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?215993>

Another collection of his short work is _Garden on the Moon_, about which I
remember absolutely nothing.

[Mike Van Pelt]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Yeah... In the book, it really was a different planet,
(with parallel evolution of humans and apes, *sigh*) and
he got the special relativity thing right as best as I
can recall.

The first "Planet of the Apes" movie was consistent with that.
But when they decided to do sequels, they introduced the
wacky space time wedgie thing to get back to present day.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Mike Van Pelt

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by John Savard
I remember the original Planet of the Apes movie quite well, despite
having only seen it on teleevision. That movie was justly praised...
and then its many sequels were justly execrated.

You should read the book. It's also good, but different.

Yeah... In the book, it really was a different planet,
(with parallel evolution of humans and apes, *sigh*) and
he got the special relativity thing right as best as I
can recall.

And - well, somebody gets back to Earth.
Sort of. See Wikipedia. Or read the
book, of course.

Post by Mike Van Pelt
The first "Planet of the Apes" movie was consistent with that.
But when they decided to do sequels, they introduced the
wacky space time wedgie thing to get back to present day.