Discussion:
"Mutineer's Moon (Dahak Series)" by David Weber
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Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
Permalink
"Mutineer's Moon (Dahak Series)" by David Weber
https://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/

Book number one of a three book space opera military science fiction
series. I read the well printed and bound MMPB published by Baen. This
is my favorite SF book and series of all time as I have reread it eight
or ten times now. I did buy a new copy of the MMPB which is the six
printing from 2004, the original publishing was in 1991. I am rereading
the second book in the series now which sadly, has gone out of print as
a standalone book.
https://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Inheritance-David-Weber/dp/0671721976/

55,000 years ago, a Fourth Imperium Utu class 2,000 km diameter
planetoid, Dahak hull number 177291, dropped out of Euchanch drive due
to a supposed failure. Dahak and his 250,000 person crew were headed to
a picket post for forty years at the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy. It
had been 7,000 years since the last genocidal invasion of the
Achuultani, a race who periodically swept the Milky Way of all life, who
had destroyed three Imperiums and countless civilizations. But the FTL
drive failure was not a accident, it was sabotage. And the mutiny that
followed exiled the mutineers and crew alike on Earth, the third planet
of the Sol System.

Today, the unmanned picket posts are warning of the imminent invasion by
the Achuultani. And Dahak is not receiving any warnings by hypercom
from Central Command. Nor can he transmit a warning to Central Command
as that capability was sabotaged also. Dahak needs a crew and a NASA
pilot on a solitary mission, Colin McIntyre, around the Moon looks to be
a good candidate. For you see, Dahak is the Moon.

I do not know why this is my favorite SF book and series of all time. I
like the standup position of the chief protagonist, Colin the First. Or
that there are so many different species of intelligent space races. Or
that the book is written so tightly, especially when compared to Weber's
later works. Or that an self aware artificial intelligence shares the
main protagonist job in the book, much like Heinlein's _The Moon Is A
Harsh Mistress_.

I keep on hoping that David Weber will write more books in the Dahak
series but, I doubt it. He did write the Safehold series which is along
the same lines as this book, overpowering space aliens and self aware
artificial intelligences. BTW, there is an ending to the Safehold,
Honorverse, and Dahak series that David Weber wrote as joke:
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/443-how-safehold-wont-end.html

The entire series is also available in an omnibus book, _Empire From The
Ashes_ in either kindle or trade paperback. I also own this book in
trade paperback.
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Ashes-David-Weber/dp/141650933X/

Here is my 2006 review of the book: "I love this book. Of my 5,000+
SciFi books, it is my favorite. True, it is a little bit raw. But, it
tells a SOLID story and leaves you wanting more more more at the end.
That is the sign of a great book. A sentient ship the size of the moon
and the unique story of the "space aliens" makes for a totally cool
story. BTW, I am reading it for the 5th or 6th time (who keeps count
?). Weber owes a couple of authors for his story: Heinlein's The Moon
is a Harsh Mistress and the Perry Rhodan series. There are two sequels
to this book, also 5 stars. I am valiantly waiting for the fourth ..."

My rating: 6 out of 5 stars (yes 6 stars, I have about 20 six star books)
Amazon rating: 4.6 out of 5 stars (211 reviews)

Lynn
Bill Gill
3 years ago
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'Mutineers Moon' was the first book by Weber that I read. I enjoyed it
a lot. I didn't think the 2nd book was quite as good, but it was still
good. The third I thought was kind of jumbled. It seemed to me to be a
pastiche of 2 or 3 stories that he patched together to make a book out
of.

Bill
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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To me, the Safehold ten book series is a complete rewrite of the third
book of the Dahak series. And stretched mightily.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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Yes, Mutineer's Moon was Weber's first published work.

Lynn
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
3 years ago
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...
But not, as I recall, the first written.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
3 years ago
Permalink
...
I have a vague recollection of a fantasy book. That's about it.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
The Horny Goat
3 years ago
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
'Mutineers Moon' was the first book by Weber that I read. I enjoyed it
a lot. I didn't think the 2nd book was quite as good, but it was still
good. The third I thought was kind of jumbled. It seemed to me to be a
pastiche of 2 or 3 stories that he patched together to make a book out
of.
Weber has confirmed he based Honor Harrington on Horatio Hornblower.

Now obviously 28th century Manticore wasn't early 19th century Britain
but much of the social structure was similar.
Torbjorn Lindgren
3 years ago
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
'Mutineers Moon' was the first book by Weber that I read.
Wasn't it his first published work?
Nope, his first published NOVEL was Insurrection with Steve White
(it's the same for him), Wikipedia says the contract was signed in
1989 and that it was published in 1990.

Before this he worked on the Task Force game Starfire and they MAY
have published something that constitutes "published work" and where
he wrote at least some of it.

But they might have not, but neither ISFDB nor Wikipedia is likely to
list that so it's no way to really know without a lot of digging or
asking people who would know. This is the universe that Insurrection
*was* set in (Starfire has since developed differently).

Mutineers Moon was his first SOLO published novel (and likely also
first solo published work) and was published in 1991.

Both Insurrection and Mutineers Moon were published by Baen, I tend to
assume the pitch for Insurrection was what got him started with Jim
Baen.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?2243
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Weber
Bob Casanova
3 years ago
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 21:34:37 -0000 (UTC), the following
appeared in alt.books.david-weber, posted by Torbjorn
Post by Torbjorn Lindgren
Post by Bill Gill
'Mutineers Moon' was the first book by Weber that I read.
Wasn't it his first published work?
Nope, his first published NOVEL was Insurrection with Steve White
(it's the same for him), Wikipedia says the contract was signed in
1989 and that it was published in 1990.
Wiki is correct; the book says the original version of
"Insurrection" was published in 1990 (the "revised and
expanded" version in Volume II of "The Stars At War" was
published in 2005). Fooled me; if I'd been asked I would
probably have said his first novel was "On Basilisk
Station", but it was published in 1992.

Thanks!
...
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
3 years ago
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...
That was his breakout work. Before that, he showed all the signs of
being a competent mid-list author capable of steady work, but not
especially notable. OBS made him a superstar, at least so far as Baen
was concerned.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Bob Casanova
3 years ago
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 15:58:49 -0700, the following appeared
in alt.books.david-weber, posted by Jibini Kula Tumbili
...
And his later work didn't disappoint.
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
3 years ago
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...
I would say "And his middle work didn't disappoint".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ninapenda Jibini
3 years ago
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...
Does every book he publishes still outsell the one before it? I
know they did at one point, and it wasn't that early in his career.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Hamish Laws
3 years ago
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I'd doubt that the War God Series of fantasy books outsold the Honor Harrington books, nor the Hells Gate books
Bill Gill
3 years ago
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I think the Wargod series is some of his best work. I know I reread it
a lot more often. Except for a couple of his standalones, 'Path of
the Fury' and 'Apocolypse Troll'. They are also pretty good.

Bill
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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I have never tried the "War God" books. Those just do not interest me.

Lynn
Robert Woodward
3 years ago
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Post by Torbjorn Lindgren
Post by Bill Gill
'Mutineers Moon' was the first book by Weber that I read.
Wasn't it his first published work?
Nope, his first published NOVEL was Insurrection with Steve White
(it's the same for him), Wikipedia says the contract was signed in
1989 and that it was published in 1990.
Before this he worked on the Task Force game Starfire and they MAY
have published something that constitutes "published work" and where
he wrote at least some of it.
David Weber wrote the _Starfire III: Empires_, which added strategic
level rules to the original Starfire game. He is also listed as the
designer for the strategic level rules for at lest 2 later editions of
the Starfire system (but not any since 1990 or so). Task Force Games had
a support magazine back in the 1980s, _Nexus_, and David Weber had at
least one Starfire scenario in that which, IIRC, came with a short story.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
Jack Bohn
3 years ago
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Attic time!
I have Nexus 7,8, 10-12 (1984-5) in which David M. Weber is credited as Associate Editor or Editor for Starfire. I suspect he was for #6, but my copy is missing page one and the masthead. (It is missing the leaves for pages 1-8 and 33-40, but has a double serving of the leaves for 9-32.) The editorial column "Starfall" there appears under his name, ones in other issues are uncredited. There are a number of unattributed items in the Starfire section, timelines and Encyclopaedia Galactica articles on various star nations that might be his creation or compilation, but see the arguments about xkcd.com/2546 for facts about fictional creations. The closest thing to narrative I can find are "Incidents from the First Interstellar War" (one published with his byline, the other with no byline) which are written as history.
--
-Jack
Robert Woodward
3 years ago
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...
I checked my issues of _Nexus_ and I suspect that "Incidents..." was
what I was thinking of (which is just an infodump without story). The
scenario is in issue #2 (the seed of the entire Arachnid war sequence).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com
David Johnston
3 years ago
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It is a matter of bafflement to me that there every was a Starfire game
that didn't have strategic rules, considering how dull the tactical
rules were on their own. The interesting built was building the empire
and designing and building a fleet that would be victorious.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
3 years ago
Permalink
...
Pocket games that were simple to the point of being dull after
you'lve plaed a couple of times were vary pouplar in the 80s. There
were entire companies based on the idea.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Johnny1A
3 years ago
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...
I suspect he ran into an issue inherent to the setting.

The idea of Luna as an immense starship works well under the Rule of Cool...but once you start writing detailed stories about it, a bunch of problems emerge, esp. with regard to scale.

The power level implied by Fourth Imperium/Empire technology makes it hard to create problems for the people possessing it, unless you give the enemy comparable tech. But if you do give the enemy comparable tech, suddenly a war starts to look a lot like MAD at a galactic scale.

Also, the concept carries certain believability issues related to scale. For ex, Weber never really _writes_ the starship _Dakah_ as if it is 2000 miles in diameter. Oh, he _tries_, but he keeps falling short simply because the scale issue is so ridiculous.

For ex, _Dahak_ carries 200 sub-warships each the size of a WWII battleship. That probably sounded like a lot...but _Dakak_ is supposed to be 2000 miles across! Assuming such miniships are useful, why stop at 200? Why not carry 2,000,000? There would be lots of room, even assuming that half or more of the interior volume of the ship is machinery!

_Dahak's_ pre-mutiny crew was 250,000. Again, that probably sounded like a lot...but it's not. Two hundred and fifty thousand people could wonder the interior of _Dahak_ for years and only rarely run across each other. That would be true even if 80% of the interior is machinery!

Which of course leads to another contradiction that appears when you really _think_ about the setting, say to write detailed fiction in it. The Fourth I/E routinely busted up whole planets to mine their raw materials, they built artificial structures thousands of miles wide equally routinely, structures that could fly FTL. The master control complex in the Bia System was, IIRC, 3000 miles or more in diameter, for ex.

Yet apparently the _people_ of the Fourth I/E lived...on planetary surfaces, in cities and so forth recognizable to Earthly experience. That makes _no sense at all_, not economically, not socially, not infrastructurally, and most especially not for a society supposedly organized around defense against the ominous Achuultani.

I suspect Weber moved on to other stories, and esp. Honor Harrington, precisely because of those inherent scale issues.
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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Aren't all wars MAD at any scale ? Just about any war that does not
immediately destroy a country usually eventually economically destroys
the country.

The reason why Dahak (an Utu class planetoid) and other planetoids are
so large is so they can have a Core Tap. The Core Tap is the only way
that the Hyper and Euchanach FTL drives can have enough power to work.
And for defense shields that require almost infinite power. And for
energy weapons that also require almost infinite power. The Core Tap
works by extreme handwavium and requires a planet of at least 3,000 km
in diameter.

Dahak is a thin cladding (80 km IIRC) of battle steel built around a
small planet of 3,000 km diameter. The Core Tap is the only major
penetration into the interior of the planet.

BTW, Dahak carries 200 space battleships of 300 meter size. There are
also several hundred space fighters, maybe several thousand. There are
also space cutlasses, pinnaces, and destroyers.

Lynn
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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I forgot, Dahak also carries two industrial manufacturing space ships of
several km in size for repairing damage to Dahak using ore mined from
asteroids. And Dahak also carries several space cruisers to support the
sub-light space battleships.

The planetoids are built to survive in deep space for decades alone by
themselves. Accidents happen and battles happen. The Milky Way Galaxy
is a big place and they are not sure where the Achuultani come from.

Lynn
Johnny1A
3 years ago
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Um...no. They aren't.

Just about any war that does not
Post by Lynn McGuire
immediately destroy a country usually eventually economically destroys
the country.
Five thousand years of recorded history tells us otherwise.

Genuine MAD-level warfare means that both sides are _wiped out_ , dead, gone, or at least shattered beyond recovery organizationally, and furthermore that this outcome is nearly inherent to the situation. That's historically rare to non-existent prior to 1945.
Post by Lynn McGuire
The reason why Dahak (an Utu class planetoid) and other planetoids are
so large is so they can have a Core Tap. The Core Tap is the only way
that the Hyper and Euchanach FTL drives can have enough power to work.
Enchanach, yes. They require core taps. Hyperdrives can get by on less power, IIRC, esp. if they aren't moving planetary masses around.
Post by Lynn McGuire
And for defense shields that require almost infinite power. And for
energy weapons that also require almost infinite power. The Core Tap
works by extreme handwavium and requires a planet of at least 3,000 km
in diameter.
None of which changes the fact that the technology enabling that would make living in cities on planetary surfaces as incongruous as people building _Gerald Ford_ class aircraft carriers living in mud huts and surviving by hunter-gathering.
Lynn McGuire
3 years ago
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My default WSOD must be cranked up much higher than yours !

Lynn
Dan Swartzendruber
3 years ago
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I must have read this trilogy 10 times already :)
Dan Swartzendruber
3 years ago
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In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@buzz.off
says...
On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:12:07 -0500, the following appeared
in alt.books.david-weber, posted by Dan Swartzendruber
Post by Dan Swartzendruber
I must have read this trilogy 10 times already :)
Only about 4 for me... ;-)
step your game up, bro! :)
Lynn McGuire
about a year ago
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Maybe I will read this again in 2024.

Lynn
WolfFan
about a year ago
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My problem with this book is the severe suspension of disbelief issues.
There’s ’the Moon is really an alien warship’ bit, which is bad enough,
but those who have read EE Smith and the likes of Skylark of Valeron and
assorted loose planets might swallow. With difficulty. There’s the really
interesting biology, in that humans are aliens, despite biology saying that
they’re related to all other life on Earth, but those who have read Larry
Niven and Protector can swallow that. With difficulty. There’s the secret
history, and how the Big Bad was behind most of the villains in history...
and let them lose..., but again EE Smith was there in Triplanetary.
Swollowable, with difficulty. There’s the Really Neat Supertech, very like
swarms of stories from the 1930s, 40s, 50s... and with all the problems of
those stories, plus additional handicaps in that the Really Neat Supertech
has to be hidden from John Public. Again, swallowable. With difficulty. The
problem is, all of that is in one story. EE Smith and Niven and Campbell and
van Vogt and the rest spread things around in multiple stories, building on
each, they didn’t just pile it into one huge blob and try to ram it down
reader’s throats. Weber did exactly that. Plus infodumps. Nope, not buying
it. Nope.

And the three books in this series were an early indicator of another Weber
problem: he can’t finish a series. He stopped at three here. He’s written
himself into corners with Honor Harrington and Safehold... including just
stopping at incredibly annoying cliffhangers. (I’ve given up on Honor, and
am getting very tired of waiting for the problems dumped in the last few
pages of the last Safehold to be resolved. There is, so far as I know, no
planned date for the release of the next Safehold book If there ever will be
a next Safehold book.) The Bloody Hand has vanished, along with an
explaination for a certain wild wizard’s actions, and exactly why the
Bloody Hand’s daughter is so incredibly important. After Weber spent three
books setting things up. Instead we have space vampires, and I suspect that
that’s going to pitter out, too.

Weber is almost as bad as Ringo with respect to finishing a series. This is
not a compliment.
Don
about a year ago
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Escapism is catnip to me. Your suspension of disbelief and infodump issues
are relatively minor, in my case. (From my perspective, it takes a far
greater suspension of disbelief and a bellyful of bigger info-dump blobs
to believe in the reportedly real Higgs Boson.)
The story's start IN SPACE is excellent. It channels Perry Rhodan.
And Jiltanith's characterization entertains me.
Unfortunately the story soon comes down to Earth. Then its inner
_Jerico Sanction_ (North) takes over to flick me in the face over and
over again.
My patient wait for less Black Mecca and more Moon was mostly in
vain. This feels like my MilSF Baen baptism. The genre's not for me.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.
Lynn McGuire
about a year ago
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"Safehold" has been finished. You just don't like the ending.
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/443-how-safehold-wont-end.html

There may be an alternate ending to "Safehold". Time will tell.

Lynn
Bob Casanova
about a year ago
Permalink
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 14:55:31 -0500, the following appeared
in alt.books.david-weber, posted by Lynn McGuire
...
Actually, it hasn't; the last book left open what will
happen, with the Archangel's testimony.
Post by Lynn McGuire
http://www.davidweber.net/posts/443-how-safehold-wont-end.html
Yeah, even David says that is how it *won't* end (although I
enjoyed it ;-) ).
Post by Lynn McGuire
There may be an alternate ending to "Safehold". Time will tell.
You mean a *real* ending. It will indeed; I just hope I'm
still around for the finish.
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
Lynn McGuire
about a year ago
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...
David Weber gave a list of his next twenty-five books plans on Facebook
on Aug 29, 2022.

https://www.facebook.com/david.weber.5621/posts/pfbid02FjnvX56nzzcej5PLiPn6n4fy6KHygEm2LVihw38KXcGyYLAD1sDCSaQpLPoXWKuDl

"Okay, I am looking to the future of the Honorverse and several of the
other series I have going. There almost certainly WILL be at least one,
and probably 2-3, more novels in the Honorverse, following END IN FIRE's
merger of the main series and the Crown of Slaves series. They won't be
written with ERIC (which i hate) but he and I always knew exactly where
the books were going, and they will go there. It is possible that the
collaborator I have in mind will also replace ME before the end of the
journey (as someone said, I am --- alas --- mortal, and I am one of
those writers who will never be "done"), but the end will be reached,
Tim Zahn, Tom Pope, and I will be wrapping the MANTICORE ASCENDANT
series in the next couple of books, at which point we will tie it off
with a bow. Jacob Holo and I will be writing the story of Edward
Saganami shortly. Joelle and I are working on the next MULTIVERSE/HELL'S
GATE book, and we know precisely where that series will ultimately end
up. I don't know that I'll be here to see the final book, but I know
what will be in it and I totally trust Joelle, Sharon, and Toni
Weisskopf to get the series there with quality writing. Richard Fox and
I have about 3 more books to bring Terrence Murphy's immediate story to
a close, though we may go a tiny bit farther than that. We are looking
at doing the second book in the Murphyverse later this fall/winter. It's
already plotted and ready to go. Chris Kennedy and I just handed in the
sequel to INTO THE LIGHT, and I think it's solid. I'm not sure how far
we're going to get into that one, but I think we can keep our readers
satisfied. And the only reason I'm not sure how far we'll get is that I
set up a heck of a big enemy when I created the Hegemony, and it's
likely to "end up" with a case of Mutually Assured Destruction rather
than a clear cut military victory. Can't say that for sure; we got
farther in the current book than we'd really expected. I need to sit
down with Jane Lindskold some time in the next couple of months and lay
out the writing outline for the next STAR KINGDOM novel. We are
envisioning three more in that series, too. I have at least two more
novels in SAFEHOLD (might be 3) at which point I will be at a thoroughly
satisfying stopping point. (Could go farther if I brought in the right
collaborator, but I don't think it's likely.) 3-4 more books in the
SWORD OF THE SOUTH series, and then that's done.
So, by my calculations, that's another 22 books I need to get written to
wrap up my current series plans.
I'm 70 this October. I sold the first novel thirty-three years ago.
Since then, I have published (or have currently turned in, awaiting
production) 74 solo and collaborative novels, which works out to roughly
2.24 per year. That doesn't count the anthologies, of course.
I lost roughly 2 years to the concussion, and about a year and a half to
the Covid, so let's call it 30 years, not 33, which brings the
production up to 2.5 per year. And let's assume that I write for another
ten years, which (at the moment, and barring any anticipated encounters
with mortality) seems entirely plausible. By my calculations, that comes
to another TWENTY-FIVE solo and collaborative novels, in the process of
which I will be working with some of my collaborators to establish them
firmly in the existing universes going forward.
People, like the characters in Richard Adams' PLAGUE DOGS, I'll probably
still be writing "when the dark comes down." That means, obviously, that
I won't be "finished" when I leave, but don't go around thinking that
you're getting rid of me next week!
Just saying."

That is an incredible amount of work for an old man who has already
published 74 books in 33 years to that Aug 29, 2022 date.

Lynn
Bob Casanova
about a year ago
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 13:35:04 -0500, the following appeared
in alt.books.david-weber, posted by Lynn McGuire
...
2-3 more novels until Safehold finishes sounds about right.
And I'd *really* like to see a Prince Roger sequel or 3.
Post by Lynn McGuire
That is an incredible amount of work for an old man who has already
published 74 books in 33 years to that Aug 29, 2022 date.
It is indeed.

(Whaddya mean, "old man"?!? He was born when I was 7! ;-) )
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
WolfFan
about a year ago
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...
Another one. the first since 2018, is due in April. I’m not holding my
breath.
...
nothing here since 2016. Eight years and counting...
Post by Lynn McGuire
and we know precisely where that series will ultimately end
up. I don't know that I'll be here to see the final book, but I know
what will be in it and I totally trust Joelle, Sharon, and Toni
Weisskopf to get the series there with quality writing. Richard Fox and
I have about 3 more books to bring Terrence Murphy's immediate story to
a close, though we may go a tiny bit farther than that. We are looking
at doing the second book in the Murphyverse later this fall/winter.
that one came out. Very late. In 2021. Nothing since then. Three years and
counting...
...
the 3rd book is due out shortly. Space vampires, we got.
Post by Lynn McGuire
I need to sit
down with Jane Lindskold some time in the next couple of months and lay
out the writing outline for the next STAR KINGDOM novel. We are
envisioning three more in that series, too. I have at least two more
novels in SAFEHOLD (might be 3) at which point I will be at a thoroughly
satisfying stopping point.
zero new Safehold. None. None in sight, either. Five years and counting...
Post by Lynn McGuire
(Could go farther if I brought in the right
collaborator, but I don't think it's likely.) 3-4 more books in the
SWORD OF THE SOUTH series,
none of these, either. Sword of the South came out in 2015. It’s nine years
and counting...
...
I used to get some Weber series as soon as they arrived, usually in hardback.
I’ve quite recovered from doing that kind of thing now. Waiting most of a
decade will do that.

Someone wake me when he actually ships new Bazhel or Safehold or Murphy
books. I might stir myself to get the ebook version. If the pricing is
reasonable. Maybe.

He can keep the space vampires. And, probably, Honor.
Dimensional Traveler
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Is out. Got it from Amazon last week.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
WolfFan
about a year ago
Permalink
...
That’s two space vampires since 2021 vs zero Safehold, Bazhel, Honor, and
one Murphy. And Amazon wants $15 for the Kindle version. I’ll hold and see
if the price falls.
Lynn McGuire
about a year ago
Permalink
...
I would not hold my breath.

Lynn
WolfFan
about a year ago
Permalink
...
the probability of my paying $15 for space vamires part 3 is extremely low.
Gone are the days when I’d drop $20-25 or more on Weber in hardback. $15
for an ebook is simply greed. Especially as I’m not too fond of the Kindle
UI. and would have to deDRM it and convert it to EPUB to feed it to an ebook
reader that I like. And to put it where Amazon can’t touch it; they have
been known to reclaim ebooks. see
https://www.pcworld.com/article/519855/amazon_kindle_1984_lawsuit.html

I don’t trust them.
Lynn McGuire
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Me either. That is one reason why I buy dead tree books. I also spend
up to 12 hours a day at one or all of my three computers writing
software. So the last thing I want to do at the end of the day is read
on a computer for relaxation.

Both my father and my son read on Kindles though. So I am the Luddite.

Lynn
Dimensional Traveler
about a year ago
Permalink
On 3/22/2024 5:14 PM, WolfFan wrote:
And to put it where Amazon can’t touch it; they have
Post by WolfFan
been known to reclaim ebooks. see
https://www.pcworld.com/article/519855/amazon_kindle_1984_lawsuit.html
I don’t trust them.
Ya, that whole incident was just stupid. And of all the titles to
reclaim THAT had to be first?!
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:43:30 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
And to put it where Amazon can’t touch it; they have
Post by WolfFan
been known to reclaim ebooks. see
https://www.pcworld.com/article/519855/amazon_kindle_1984_lawsuit.html
I don’t trust them.
Ya, that whole incident was just stupid. And of all the titles to
reclaim THAT had to be first?!
Much as I agree that reasonably-limited copyrights are helpful, what,
exactly, is a vendor supposed to do when it finds that it has broken
the law by selling something it has no right to sell? Go to jail? Pay
ginormous fines [1] for copyright violation?

I don't know if this is the case I remember, but, in the one I
remember, the /real/ problem was that the book was an over-the-summer
reading assignment requiring a book report -- and the notes the kid
was planning to use for that report vanished as well.

[1] At the rate of one fine per book sold, they will mount up
endlessly.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Dimensional Traveler
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Yes, part of what raised the volume on the screaming was that users'
notes and annotations had also been erased.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 12:14:54 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
...
As it should have -- /that/ was actual damage sustained by the
customer. Just having to buy a legal copy if you wanted to finish the
book was merely inconvenient.

Speaking of Kindle annoyances -- my new Kindles (both old ones stopped
working on their own with no encouragement [such as being dropped]
from me) now show /every/ passage underlined that anyone else has
annotated and tells me how many annotators there are -- as part of
Whispersync. No option to drop this "feature" has been found so far.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Dimensional Traveler
about a year ago
Permalink
...
If one were paranoid or had ever dealt with a tech company before (but I
repeat myself) one might suspect deliberate remote bricking....
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 10:11:46 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
...
The Kindles that died were purchased in Feb 2014. One (a refurbished
replacement for one whose screen I managed to crack) died in Dec 2023,
the other in Feb 2024. The batteries still charged (well, the amber
charging light eventually turned green), but they just didn't respond,
even to attempted rebooting. Ten years of use isn't all that bad,
although what part(s) failed is a mystery.

I returned both of them. The first was a hoot: I was supposed to print
a Special Lable in color, but didn't have a color printer. So I
printed it on my trusty B&W dot matrix Panasonic (older than the
Kindles, BTW) and used a red marker to add color to the parts that
were supposed to be red (something to do with the type of battery
inside). The second required no such lable. I got $25 back (as a
credit) on each replacement.

Technically, that was a $5 coupon and 20% off the price of the
replacement. The $20 was taken off when I ordered the replacement
after setting up the return; the email acknowledging acceptance of the
return was written as if the $20 would be taken off only after
acceptance. So they appear to have conflicting theories. They did say
that, if I didn't return it or it wasn't accepted they would recoup
the $20 (and maybe the $5 as well).

The other weird thing I have noticed (aside from a new user interface,
which is not, IMHO, an improvement on the old one) is that, with the
"ads" set to "targetted" what I am being targetted /with/ is a
rotating set of "bedtime stories for parents and children" with
cutesy-poo cover illustrations and cutesy-poo titles. It's a good
thing I'm not diabetic; if I were, that much sugar (only a wee bit
each time, but it accumulates over time) would be fatal.

I am reading Dumas on one and Deaver on the other. Neither are
cutesy-poo, so Amazon's ad targetting appears to be off. Way off.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
about a year ago
Permalink
...
I'm getting those too.

I've lost one jailbroken 2011 Kindle Keyboard to some sort of
hardware issue, but the other is still going strong. It is amusing
how slow search gets when you have 1240 books loaded. Definitely
don't want to "trade up" to one without the read-out-loud feature and
a headphone jack.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Cryptoengineer
about a year ago
Permalink
...
I use the kindle app on ipad and an android phone, and haven't
noticed any ads beyond 'you might like this book'.

...but I don't get the text-to-voice, and I'd love to have it.

pt
Titus G
about a year ago
Permalink
snip
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I've lost one jailbroken 2011 Kindle Keyboard to some sort of
hardware issue, but the other is still going strong.  It is amusing
how slow search gets when you have 1240 books loaded.  Definitely
don't want to "trade up" to one without the read-out-loud feature and
a headphone jack.
 I use the kindle app on ipad and an android phone, and haven't
noticed any ads beyond 'you might like this book'.
...but I don't get the text-to-voice, and I'd love to have it.
My first Kindle was bought in 2011 but my books are all stored in
Calibre so I never would have had more than a hundred on it so never
noticed speed of response to anything but the touch screen on later
models is far superior for ease of use. I use the Amazon provided Kindle
for PC and do not register the Kindle so do not receive any ads.
I suspect you would be very disappointed with the quality of text to
voice on this 2011 Kindle as the computer just produces words in a
computer voice with no change in emotion, speed or volumne.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Yeah, I have all my ebooks in Calibre as well, the 1240 also on the
Kindle are just the ones I haven't read yet.

I posted an example of the text-to-voice here a few weeks ago, let me
dig it up agian:



There are a few settings you can tweak. As I recall I picked a female
voice and either sped it up a little or slowed it down a little the
default was off one way or the other.

It takes a little getting used to, but I find it quite comprehensible.

There are occasional comic aspects. For instance, Lindsay Buroker has
a writing tic where her characters say "Hmm." as a thinking pause.
The Kindle pronounces this as "hectameters". Since the first place
I encountered it was a semi-steampunk setting where "hectameters" was
a plausible mild swear, it took me a while to figure out what was going
on.

I get the feeling from reading Amazon reviews that lots of people expect
audiobooks to be something close to radio dramas. I don't get that at
all. A narrator should not try to act the book.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Titus G
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Thanks, but I thought that that was terrible and I couldn't understand
much without reading at the same time.
...
My complaint is with the Kindle as narrator. I have never listened to an
audio book. I am sure my eyes, not knowing what to do, would close
inducing sleep.
Cryptoengineer
about a year ago
Permalink
...
One I use on my Android phone (Moon+ reader) has a text to voice feature.
It has a little inflection, rising at the end of questions, an momentary
pauses
at the end of sentences. However, it makes errors, particularly with names
and
acronyms. At one point, it enchanterd a text referring to a woman's 'DD'
assets, which it pronounced 'Doctor of Divinity'.

BTW, I'm posting this using 'NewsTal', the only iPad capable newsreader on
the Apple Store. It has some truly brain dead design decisions, but sort of

works. Does it look ok?

Pt
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Looks fine!

Supposedly Thunderbird for Ipad is in the works..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 01:04:08 -0000 (UTC), Cryptoengineer
...
Looks fine.

I'm not sure about "enchanterd", however. Perhaps "encountered"?

And, as an academic or honorary degree, "DD" can be "Doctor of
Divinity". But "DDiv" can be as well.

But it's all about context, and teaching a machine about that
particular context might be very ... interesting.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Cryptoengineer
about a year ago
Permalink
...
'enchantered' was a typo for 'encountered' - sorry.

I found the error on 'DD' amusing more than anything.

pt

Titus G
about a year ago
Permalink
snip
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I posted an example of the text-to-voice here a few weeks ago, let me
http://youtu.be/f0nxRIQz0kc
There are a few settings you can tweak.
Today I read of the advancement of this topic. The web reference address
tells all.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/31/openai-deems-its-voice-cloning-tool-too-risky-for-general-release
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Actually, I found the mechanical Kindle (the Refurbished one) easier
to use overall. For one thing, the keyboard is set up alphabetically,
which makes sense since touch typing is not involved.

It also worked better with footnotes. A few novels have had footnotes
and some even implement them rather than just show the numbers and put
the text wherever it falls. With the mechanical Kindle, you can select
the number, go to the note, and then return. With the touch-screen
Kindle, I had to increase the font size/line spacing so that I could
reliable touch the footnote number (as opposed to anything else in its
vicinity), but I will say that things went more smoothly after I did.
Still, having to turn my book into a Large Print edition just to
follow the footnotes is a definite disadvantage, IMHO.

OTOH, the touch Kindles apparently list all the groups I form whether
they contain books on that Kindle or not.

The newest Kindles have a new USB socket and a shorter cable (solved
with an extension cable and the fact that both use the same USB
socket), and a new user interface with insists on showing (by default)
/all/ collections and /all/ Books on a scrolling display (instead of a
bunch of screens). The closest I can come to what I want (the
Paperwhite interface, which did not show books that were in
collections outside of the collections, at least when configured
properly), is to show only unread books. I have to remember to add
each new book to a collection when it is received, since it won't be
visible after it is read. But only if I view it in the Library, which
is /not/ the default view. The default view is the Store. Of course,
since I spend 99% of my time on the Kindle reading the books, I don't
have to deal with these annoyances very often.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Mad Hamish
about a year ago
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:43:30 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
And to put it where Amazon can’t touch it; they have
Post by WolfFan
been known to reclaim ebooks. see
https://www.pcworld.com/article/519855/amazon_kindle_1984_lawsuit.html
I don’t trust them.
Ya, that whole incident was just stupid. And of all the titles to
reclaim THAT had to be first?!
What were they meant to do when they found that the publisher didn't
have the rights to the book?
Dimensional Traveler
about a year ago
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:43:30 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by WolfFan
And to put it where Amazon can’t touch it; they have
Post by WolfFan
been known to reclaim ebooks. see
https://www.pcworld.com/article/519855/amazon_kindle_1984_lawsuit.html
I don’t trust them.
Ya, that whole incident was just stupid. And of all the titles to
reclaim THAT had to be first?!
What were they meant to do when they found that the publisher didn't
have the rights to the book?
Stop selling it, same as if it were physical printed copies.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
WolfFan
about a year ago
Permalink
...
Exactly. Yanking it from custyomers’ devices was, and is, totally
unacceptable. The fact that they sold something that they shouldn’t have is
a THEM problem, not a CUSTOMER problem.
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
...
We are wandering here into the legal wasteland of just what it means
to "own" -- well, anything digital (book, music, video).

For example, can such things be /inherited/? Or do they cease to be
legally useable by anyone when the purchaser moves on? I don't know it
this has come up yet, but it will, oh yes, it will.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
The Horny Goat
about a year ago
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 08:29:40 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
We are wandering here into the legal wasteland of just what it means
to "own" -- well, anything digital (book, music, video).
=46or example, can such things be /inherited/? Or do they cease to be
legally useable by anyone when the purchaser moves on? I don't know it
this has come up yet, but it will, oh yes, it will.
Why not? I have numerous times both given and received books from
other members of my family.

It's one of the reasons I refuse to deal with Apple because of all the
crap they've given me concerning my late wife's iPad - they actually
demanded proof of purchase (which I gave to her in a sealed envelope
as part of the present) despite the fact her name phone # and e-mail
address was engraved on the back of the iPad. I later found the e-copy
of my order for it but since they require me to take it to their Apple
Store IN PERSON (which is downtown in the middle of a office mall
where it's $12/hr for parking and thus not something I'm willing to do
repeatedly) for service (I want it either transferred to my account or
re-initialized) with no assurance they'll actually do it.

I'd happily return it to where it was purchased - but that was Staples
not Apple themselves. (When I went to Apple I took the iPad, copy of
will and death certificate to prove my ownership)
The Horny Goat
about a year ago
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:07:30 +1100, Mad Hamish
Post by Mad Hamish
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Ya, that whole incident was just stupid. And of all the titles to
reclaim THAT had to be first?!
What were they meant to do when they found that the publisher didn't
have the rights to the book?
Pay the legitimate rights holder.

NOT their own customers who in good faith had purchased the book -
since they themselves made the original sale and part of the
reasonable expectations of a customer is that the vendor had the right
to sell the item they purchased in good faith. (Of course when
discussing a book there's also the expectation that the book is
readable - ie that all the pages are there...)

To me (a recently retired store owner who sold goods to the jewelry
trade) of course my customers' had a right to believe I had the right
to sell them the goods I was selling them. Their agreement to purchase
was with me not the original manufacturer. Their main duty was to pay
the price - and owning their purchases and receiving them in usable
condition was part of the purchase. I as vendor didn't have the right
to reclaim the goods to repay my obligations to the manufacturer.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
about a year ago
Permalink
...
There are other ebook vendors.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Paul S Person
about a year ago
Permalink
...
I will pay that much for a book I really really want [1]. What I
dislike is the occasional older book that claims to have been produced
with care and charges a price commensurate with effort being expended
on it which then turns out to be a "run it through OCR and sell it"
special.

Books under copyright, particularly modern and/or popular books, may
be entangled with all sorts of overhead expenses or royalties due the
author which must be collected even if the production cost is minimal
because the text from the file they sent to the printer is available
to use in the Kindle.

[1] I'll pay a lot more for hardcover books that I really really want
but there aren't many of those -- since text works fine on Kindle,
only manga/comics/graphic novels/art books are left.
Post by WolfFan
I don’t trust them.
I trust them enough to buy things from them. But, for non-physical
items, there is definitely a risk: digitial ownership does not appear
to be the same as physical ownership. Although I suppose the courts
will eventually sort this out. Or Congress, if it ever gets its sh*t
together.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
Bob Casanova
about a year ago
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 20:14:44 -0400, the following appeared
in alt.books.david-weber, posted by WolfFan
...
Two of those issues are easy to fix (not, unfortunately, the
greed of publishers); Calibre (which is free) has plugins to
deDRM every current format, including azw3, and will convert
between formats. And once it's in the Calibre library, which
is *far* superior to Kindle for PC, Amazon can't touch it.
Post by WolfFan
I don’t trust them.
Neither do I, but the above means I don't have to.
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
Mad Hamish
about a year ago
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:29:08 -0500, Lynn McGuire
...
Pretty decent odds that the kindle price will drop when there's a
paperback release.