Discussion:
Uncle Hugo's (1974-2020), Minneapolis s-f book burned down in riots
(too old to reply)
l***@yahoo.com
2020-05-31 02:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Found it at alt.obituaries.



http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/

Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized

Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer

Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.

Uncle Hugo’s, in business since 1974, and neighboring mystery bookstore Uncle Edgar’s since 1980 (also burned), are located near the corner of Lake and Chicago, Uncle Hugo’s is the nation’s oldest surviving sf bookstore.

Owner Don Blyly told Facebook followers:

Friends: I’ve gone past heartsick into angry. This is from Don this morning: Hi Folks,

There was a call from the security company around 3:30 this morning that the motion detector was showing somebody in the building. I threw on clothes and headed over there. When I was 2 blocks away I received a call that the smoke detectors were showing smoke in the store. Every single building on both sides of Chicago was blazing and dozens of people dancing around. As I pulled into the dentist’s lot I could see that flames were leaping out the front windows of the Uncles. It looked to me like they had broken every window on the front of the Uncles and then squirted accelerant through each broken window. It looked hopeless to me, but I went around to the back door to see if I could get to a fire extinguisher. As soon as I opened the back door a wave of very thick black smoke poured out, so I quickly closed the door again… Since Chicago Ave. was full of dancing rioters, broken glass, and flaming debris, I went down the alley and took Lake St. home. There were blocks of Lake St. where every building was blazing. No sign of any cops, national guard troops, or any help.

I’m pretty sure the insurance policy excludes damage from a civil insurrection, so I suspect I won’t get a cent for either the building or the contents.

I am starting to investigate the best crowdsourcing to rebuild. Any donations – well – I’ll need to find where to send them

Located about two miles away, Greg Ketter’s Dreamhaven Books, Comics and Art was vandalized but not destroyed. Glass was broken and bookcases turned over.

DreamHaven’s Wendy Comeau said on Facebook:

We have a crew at DreamHaven. They smashed the front door, came in and smashed a lot of other glass, tried to bash their way into an empty cash box, and tried to set the store on fire. They took a few things, but so much was tossed around that it will be a while before we can figure it out.

Lots of cleaning is happening, glass slivers are everywhere. If anybody nearby has an industrial vacuum cleaner, that might be good for glass slivers.

Right now, we’re trying to get some cleaning done and not answering the phone, but feel free to swing by and chip in. Many thanks to everybody who already have.

[Thanks to Joyce Scrivner and Joe Sherry for the story.]

This entry was posted in Poor Trufan's Almanack and tagged Don Blyly, DreamHaven Books, Greg Ketter, Uncle Hugo's Science Fiction Bookstore by Mike Glyer. Bookmark the permalink.

https://maxonwriting.com/2020/05/30/uncle-hugos-bookstore-in-minneapolis-burned-down-during-riots-gofundme-open/

Uncle Hugo’s Bookstore in Minneapolis Burned Down During Riots, GoFundMe Open (Now Paused)

So this one hit me a little.

I’ve never been to Minneapolis (and this post will not be about the rioting or the situations associated with it, as I’m not trying to invite a firestorm of angry, opinionated people). I’ve never once set foot in Uncle Hugo’s Science Fiction Bookstore. I’ve never even ordered from them.

But I have heard stories about them. This is the place that picked up a self-pub book to sell before indie was a real thing and started sending it to publishers with notes along the lines of ‘here’s how many copies I bought, why are you not publishing this?’ From the stories I’ve heard at cons and from other authors, they’ve flat-out kickstarted a lot of careers.

The store itself is only halfway regarded as a store by many, given that the owner loved collecting rare Sci-Fi books. Many also referred to it as a “museum of Science Fiction literature.”

And well … last night it was burned to the ground. Complete loss. Here’s a picture of what the place normally looked like:

Given the stories I’ve heard about this place, this one hit even me. I’ve never even been there but I’ve heard the stories.

Worse, it seems that the insurance will not cover civil disturbance. At least, not to the degree that would be needed to recover from such a loss.

A GoFundMe page has been started to raise funds for recovery from this. EDIT: The GoFundMe has been paused while the owner works out his options. The GoFundMe was started by a fan, who has paused it at their request. If a GoFundMe by the owner goes up, I’ll update this link.


May 30, 2020

(end of post)
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 02:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state

White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems

https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran

Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
Magewolf
2020-05-31 03:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.

B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
J. Clarke
2020-05-31 05:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
I dunno how old everybody is, but if you're old enough you should
remember the Civil Rights movement all being the fault of "outside
agitators". When some government official says "outside agitators" he
generally means "people who expect their civil rights to be
recognized".
Quadibloc
2020-05-31 06:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
I dunno how old everybody is, but if you're old enough you should
remember the Civil Rights movement all being the fault of "outside
agitators". When some government official says "outside agitators" he
generally means "people who expect their civil rights to be
recognized".
Oh, yes, I'm old enough to remember that. Apparently, if it wasn't for those New
York Jews, the black people of the Deep South would never have known they had a
problem.

John Savard
Major Oz
2020-06-02 20:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
I dunno how old everybody is, but if you're old enough you should
remember the Civil Rights movement all being the fault of "outside
agitators". When some government official says "outside agitators" he
generally means "people who expect their civil rights to be
recognized".
In the context of the civil rights struggles of the 60's.....the subject was law, itself......as in allowing blacks to register and vote.

Beating of people was an ancillary subject, vicious though it was.

As such.......yes, the activists WERE, from outside the area.....as there was no local effective organization and the national focus cared ONLY when "yankees" got involved.

The murders of James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman tended to bring focus to the issue.
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 06:20:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553

Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court

Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/

New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)

Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/

White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows


Several reporters have been arrested on camera

There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/

a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310

and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
Major Oz
2020-06-02 20:59:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.

If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
Alan Baker
2020-06-02 21:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
Major Oz
2020-06-03 03:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 03:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.

Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.

Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.

And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...

...is contemptible.
Major Oz
2020-06-03 16:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?

....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 16:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
You think that it being a different irritant changes anything, asshole?

They fired into a peaceful crowd without warning.

They cleared PRIESTS from a church.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-03 16:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by Alan Baker
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 4:32:49 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:20:58 AM UTC-5,
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:18:56 PM UTC+10, Magewolf
Post by Magewolf
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:04:15 PM UTC+10,
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-anoth
er-vandal
ized/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught
up in the w
ave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the
death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore
has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into
and damaged.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St
Paul and MN
Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems
at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
White nationalist groups are posting about going there,
looting an
d stirring up problems
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people
not from
Atlanta...
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so
they can g
et
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
around actually having to do anything about it. And by
that I mean Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the
dark skinned people in the reams of video of the looting
and burning are white nationalist just like they were the
last time this happened and the
time
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting
arrows into
the crowd
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/12668985284225515
53
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers
-found-gu
il/?amp
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and
killed th
e day before his appearance at the court
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to
the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/pol
ice_in_sa
lt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-f
loyd/ (note that there are things being thrown at another
police car, it a
ppears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-offic
er-shovin
g-woman-to-ground/6221538/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-p
hotograph
er-with-pepper-balls/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with
protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl
Scout mast
urbating.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your
universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world
becomes...."contempt
able".
Post by Alan Baker
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber
bullets into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
Yeah, pretty much. If it had been tear gas, nobody would have been
walking through the area shortly thereafter, and tear gas and horse
are never used together for the safety of the horses.

So now the backpedally will start, and the goal posts will hit
supersonic speeds before they're done.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 16:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by Alan Baker
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 4:32:49 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:20:58 AM UTC-5,
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:18:56 PM UTC+10, Magewolf
Post by Magewolf
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:04:15 PM UTC+10,
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-anoth
er-vandal
ized/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught
up in the w
ave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the
death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore
has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into
and damaged.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St
Paul and MN
Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems
at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
White nationalist groups are posting about going there,
looting an
d stirring up problems
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people
not from
Atlanta...
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so
they can g
et
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
around actually having to do anything about it. And by
that I mean Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the
dark skinned people in the reams of video of the looting
and burning are white nationalist just like they were the
last time this happened and the
time
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Magewolf
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting
arrows into
the crowd
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/12668985284225515
53
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers
-found-gu
il/?amp
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and
killed th
e day before his appearance at the court
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to
the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/pol
ice_in_sa
lt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-f
loyd/ (note that there are things being thrown at another
police car, it a
ppears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-offic
er-shovin
g-woman-to-ground/6221538/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-p
hotograph
er-with-pepper-balls/
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with
protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl
Scout mast
urbating.
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your
universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world
becomes...."contempt
able".
Post by Alan Baker
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber
bullets into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
Yeah, pretty much. If it had been tear gas, nobody would have been
walking through the area shortly thereafter, and tear gas and horse
are never used together for the safety of the horses.
So now the backpedally will start, and the goal posts will hit
supersonic speeds before they're done.
The exact TYPE if irritant is you contemptible assholes' deflection.

They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
Mike Van Pelt
2020-06-03 20:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.

They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
Sjouke Burry
2020-06-03 20:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
You mean, they copied the potus policy, and used their imagination?
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 22:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
And who is the boss of the Park Police?

Independent reports have all stated there was no warning and that the
crowd was peaceful.
David Johnston
2020-06-03 22:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-03 23:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the
protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Paul S Person
2020-06-04 16:38:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the
protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?

I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Sjouke Burry
2020-06-04 16:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the
protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
Not while using your knee........
Dimensional Traveler
2020-06-04 17:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
Not while using your knee........
The current POTUS might approve of that, just not on the
King^H^H^H^HPresident.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-04 17:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the
protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team
"I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they
couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
Because physically assaulting the President of the United States is
a very serious crime.

And refusing to do their jobs is a good way to take up burger
flipping as a new career. Plus, if he left without them (and he
would, to make a point) and something happened, I suspect the
insubordinate agents would go to prison.
Post by Paul S Person
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever
they need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and
sitting on him.
You suspect a lot of stupid things, being a stupid person.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Major Oz
2020-06-04 17:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
--
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" -- law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.

[ badly worded, I admit ]
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-04 17:54:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 11:38:29 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team
"I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . .
they couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much
whatever they need to to keep him safe, including tackling him
and sitting on him. --
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" --
law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says
The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from
danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
But there's nothing to stop him from imposing consequences
afterwards, or telling them he would.

Ultimately, they work for him, not the other way around. It's never
a good idea to piss off the boxx.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Peter Trei
2020-06-04 22:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team
"I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . .
they couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much
whatever they need to to keep him safe, including tackling him
and sitting on him. --
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" --
law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says
The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from
danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
But there's nothing to stop him from imposing consequences
afterwards, or telling them he would.
Ultimately, they work for him, not the other way around. It's never
a good idea to piss off the boxx.
They don't work for Donald Trump directly. The Secret Service is under DHS.
They're loyalty isn't to Trump, but to the US.

If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to accept a loss,
he will cease to be President (and Pence to be VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021.
At that point, I expect the SS to remove him as a trespasser.

pt
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-04 23:19:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 1:54:18 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service
team "I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and
. . . they couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much
whatever they need to to keep him safe, including tackling
him and sitting on him. --
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" --
law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that
says The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming
away from danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
But there's nothing to stop him from imposing consequences
afterwards, or telling them he would.
Ultimately, they work for him, not the other way around. It's
never a good idea to piss off the boxx.
They don't work for Donald Trump directly. The Secret Service is
under DHS. They're loyalty isn't to Trump, but to the US.
And if Trump says "get rid of Bob," Bob is gone. And that's a very
bad career move.
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS to
remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to lead
the charge.

(Speaking of whom, it would also be a bad career move to piss the
President off enough to provoke a conflict between the Secret
Service and the Marines, who *do* work for the President. It
wouldn't turn out the way Trump wanted, but it wouldn't turn out
the way you want, either.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-06-05 02:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS to
remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to lead
the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I have seen much
evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I have seen _no_ evidence he plans
to make himself "President for Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's
not the same as grinding it into dust.

Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and Inauguration
Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President in defiance of the election
results (not counting asking for recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.

I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening *between*
Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he loses the election. But I'm
not sure _how_ worried I should be about that, at the moment, I don't see
evidence to expect that either.

John Savard
Chrysi Cat
2020-06-05 03:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS to
remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to lead
the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I have seen much
evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I have seen _no_ evidence he plans
to make himself "President for Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's
not the same as grinding it into dust.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and Inauguration
Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President in defiance of the election
results (not counting asking for recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening *between*
Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he loses the election. But I'm
not sure _how_ worried I should be about that, at the moment, I don't see
evidence to expect that either.
John Savard
Oh, no question of that. It's not a matter of "WILL he nuke someplace
between losing and leaving", it's "WHAT COUNTRY will his nuke targets be
in?" with about equal odds for every Pacific Rim country other than
Japan, Canada or South Korea (and yes, I am aware that the US is
currently still a Pacific Rim country).
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
J. Clarke
2020-06-05 06:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS to
remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to lead
the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I have seen much
evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I have seen _no_ evidence he plans
to make himself "President for Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's
not the same as grinding it into dust.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and Inauguration
Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President in defiance of the election
results (not counting asking for recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening *between*
Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he loses the election. But I'm
not sure _how_ worried I should be about that, at the moment, I don't see
evidence to expect that either.
John Savard
Oh, no question of that. It's not a matter of "WILL he nuke someplace
between losing and leaving", it's "WHAT COUNTRY will his nuke targets be
in?" with about equal odds for every Pacific Rim country other than
Japan, Canada or South Korea (and yes, I am aware that the US is
currently still a Pacific Rim country).
Nixon couldn't get the military to nuke Vietnam, so it's doubtful that
Trump, who is vastly less capable than Nixon, would be able to
persuade them to nuke anybody.

Something that is not well understood is that Trump's usurping the
legislative power is sanctioned by Congress--they're the ones who
delegated vast amounts of their legislative power to the executive, as
well as granting vast emergency powers.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-05 16:16:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 21:01:53 -0600, Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 5:19:11 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to
be VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect
the SS to remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come
to pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House
to lead the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I
have seen much evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I
have seen _no_ evidence he plans to make himself "President
for Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's not the
same as grinding it into dust.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day
and Inauguration Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain
President in defiance of the election results (not counting
asking for recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic
happening *between* Election Day and Inauguration Day in the
event he loses the election. But I'm not sure _how_ worried I
should be about that, at the moment, I don't see evidence to
expect that either.
John Savard
Oh, no question of that. It's not a matter of "WILL he nuke
someplace between losing and leaving", it's "WHAT COUNTRY will
his nuke targets be in?" with about equal odds for every Pacific
Rim country other than Japan, Canada or South Korea (and yes, I
am aware that the US is currently still a Pacific Rim country).
Nixon couldn't get the military to nuke Vietnam, so it's
doubtful that Trump, who is vastly less capable than Nixon,
would be able to persuade them to nuke anybody.
TDS hallucinations aside, why would anyone expect him to *want* to?
Something that is not well understood is that Trump's usurping
the legislative power is sanctioned by Congress--they're the
ones who delegated vast amounts of their legislative power to
the executive, as well as granting vast emergency powers.
Unlike some of his predecessors, who just acted unilaterally.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Major Oz
2020-06-05 03:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS to
remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to lead
the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I have seen much
evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I have seen _no_ evidence he plans
to make himself "President for Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's
not the same as grinding it into dust.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and Inauguration
Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President in defiance of the election
results (not counting asking for recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening *between*
Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he loses the election. But I'm
not sure _how_ worried I should be about that, at the moment, I don't see
evidence to expect that either.
John Savard
Not to worry......if he loses, he will peacefully leave.

But, if he wins.........LOOK FOR ALL HELL TO BREAK LOOSE.
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-05 16:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 5:19:11 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses
to accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence
to be VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I
expect the SS to remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come
to pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House
to lead the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy", but while I
have seen much evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I
have seen _no_ evidence he plans to make himself "President for
Life"; he may bend the Constitution, but that's not the same as
grinding it into dust.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and
Inauguration Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President
in defiance of the election results (not counting asking for
recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening
*between* Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he
loses the election. But I'm not sure _how_ worried I should be
about that, at the moment, I don't see evidence to expect that
either.
John Savard
Not to worry......if he loses, he will peacefully leave.
But, if he wins.........LOOK FOR ALL HELL TO BREAK LOOSE.
Yeah, a rapid economic recovery and the supression of violent
insurgents effective enough to allow actual improvements in race
relations would be absolutely horrible.

For the extremist left.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-05 16:15:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 5:19:11 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to
accept a loss, he will cease to be President (and Pence to be
VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021. At that point, I expect the SS
to remove him as a trespasser.
Assuming that your insane, apocalyptic fantasy were to come to
pass, I'd expect the Marines stationed in the White House to
lead the charge.
I don't know about "insane, apocalyptic fantasy",
This discussion has been in TDS induced insane, apocalyptic fantasy
land for some time.
but while I
have seen much evidence of character flaws in Donald Trump, I
have seen _no_ evidence he plans to make himself "President for
Life";
There's less than no reason to believe he would willingly do so if
if were offered to him on a silver platter. He'll make a *lot* more
money as an ex-president.
he may bend the Constitution, but that's not the same as
grinding it into dust.
He's acted within it more consistently than, say Obama, who just
shit all over it.
Also, there is a certain lapse of time between Election Day and
Inauguration Day. Fighting a losing battle to remain President
in defiance of the election results (not counting asking for
recounts) doesn't appear to be his style.
I'm more worried about something _really_ apocalyptic happening
*between* Election Day and Inauguration Day in the event he
loses the election. But I'm not sure _how_ worried I should be
about that, at the moment, I don't see evidence to expect that
either.
It's gonna matter much, since he's going to be reelected. That was
pretty likely anyway, but the actions of the left in the last three
months has pretty much carved it in stone.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
J. Clarke
2020-06-05 01:29:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:41:06 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team
"I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . .
they couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much
whatever they need to to keep him safe, including tackling him
and sitting on him. --
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" --
law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says
The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from
danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
But there's nothing to stop him from imposing consequences
afterwards, or telling them he would.
Ultimately, they work for him, not the other way around. It's never
a good idea to piss off the boxx.
They don't work for Donald Trump directly. The Secret Service is under DHS.
They're loyalty isn't to Trump, but to the US.
In other words somehow the chain of command clearly defined in the
Constitution has been tossed out the window? Their loyalty should be
to the Constitution which clearly states that the President is the
Commander In Chief. So, they don't take orders from him because he's
Trump, they take orders from him because he is the President.
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to accept a loss,
he will cease to be President (and Pence to be VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021.
At that point, I expect the SS to remove him as a trespasser.
One hopes that that will happen. But then who is the President?
Quadibloc
2020-06-05 02:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:41:06 -0700 (PDT), Peter Trei
Post by Peter Trei
If, somehow, DT manages to delay the election, or refuses to accept a loss,
he will cease to be President (and Pence to be VP)at 12 noon on Jan 20, 2021.
At that point, I expect the SS to remove him as a trespasser.
One hopes that that will happen. But then who is the President?
If he refuses to accept a loss, the President-elect.

If he delays an election, then either the delay is accepted as legitimate, so he
wouldn't be removed... or it isn't, in which case he is removed in time to hold
an election, which would make Pence President because his term as Vice-President
wouldn't be up yet.

John Savard
Paul S Person
2020-06-05 16:28:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 04 Jun 2020 10:54:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 11:38:29 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team
"I'm doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . .
they couldn't stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much
whatever they need to to keep him safe, including tackling him
and sitting on him. --
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" --
law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says
The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from
danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
But there's nothing to stop him from imposing consequences
afterwards, or telling them he would.
Ultimately, they work for him, not the other way around. It's never
a good idea to piss off the boxx.
There would pretty much have to be something like that, or they
couldn't do their job.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
David Johnston
2020-06-04 22:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
--
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" -- law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
[ badly worded, I admit ]
Only in extreme exigencies. It is of course an amazing coincidence that
the park police without knowing about Trump's plans just happened to
clear out everyone at just the right moment for Trump's procession so he
could pose in front of a church with his inverted bible.
Robert Carnegie
2020-06-05 01:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 16:32:55 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by David Johnston
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
So what was Trump's plan for how to handle the walk past the protesters?
It is entirely plausible that he told his Secret Service team "I'm
doing this right now, and you can't stop me" and . . . they couldn't
stop him.
Why? Because he's so large and heavy?
I suspect that his protection detail can do pretty much whatever they
need to to keep him safe, including tackling him and sitting on him.
--
I have no citations, but I recall that there is a "policy" -- law,resolution, whatever, Constitutionally cleared -- that says The secret service may drag him kicking and screaming away from danger...AND prohibit him from going into danger.
[ badly worded, I admit ]
Only in extreme exigencies. It is of course an amazing coincidence that
the park police without knowing about Trump's plans just happened to
clear out everyone at just the right moment for Trump's procession so he
could pose in front of a church with his inverted bible.
This isn't what we come here for but... I wasn't
fully paying attention, was the picture of George Floyd
holding up a bible trending before President Trump went
for a walk to stage his own version?

Do we count it as speculative fiction if the Apocalypse
is occurring right now? It's not in all bibles but
probably is in the ones we're talking about.
The U.S. presidential car has been called "The Beast"
over several recent administrations, which I may
have said here before, makes his role that of
Great Whore of Babylon, drunken with the blood of
martyrs, with whom (Babylon) the kings of the earth
have committed fornication. Though not since social
distancing of course.

Actual consensus is that "Babylon" actually represents
Rome. Or alternatively Jerusalem, or Cordoba in Spain,
or allegorical evil, or if you're Protestant then
Rome again. Or the United States of America, but
if /those/ guys are right it will be unbelievably
embarrassing. Anyway. Never actually Babylon, either.
Major Oz
2020-06-05 03:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Do we count it as speculative fiction if the Apocalypse
is occurring right now? It's not in all bibles but
probably is in the ones we're talking about.
The U.S. presidential car has been called "The Beast"
over several recent administrations, which I may
have said here before, makes his role that of
Great Whore of Babylon, drunken with the blood of
martyrs, with whom (Babylon) the kings of the earth
have committed fornication. Though not since social
distancing of course.
Actual consensus is that "Babylon" actually represents
Rome. Or alternatively Jerusalem, or Cordoba in Spain,
or allegorical evil, or if you're Protestant then
Rome again. Or the United States of America, but
if /those/ guys are right it will be unbelievably
embarrassing. Anyway. Never actually Babylon, either.
Rev 18:10.........or Pat Frank
Paul S Person
2020-06-04 16:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Van Pelt
Post by Alan Baker
They ATTACKED a peaceful crowd without warning.
The Park Police account is somewhat different.
They say they hadn't been informed that Trump
was going to make an appearance; they were
clearing the crowd because they were throwing
stuff at the police.
Do they have the video to prove it?

No?

Then they still need independent verification.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
David Johnston
2020-06-03 22:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
The people coughing and tearing didn't know the difference between tear
gas and pepper balls? Well clearly that invalidates everything.
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 23:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:04:15 PM UTC+10,
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in
the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests
against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s
bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was
broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and
MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of
problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of
state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting
and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not
from Atlanta...
A.  They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they
can get
around actually having to do anything about it.  And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B.  Think before you repeat stuff.  I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed
the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car,
it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world
becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
The people coughing and tearing didn't know the difference between tear
gas and pepper balls?  Well clearly that invalidates everything.
Here's what they used:

'Skat Shell® 37mm Multiple Projectile Round, OC

MODEL: 1170 SKU: 1176038 PART: 1170

The 37mm Skat Shell® OC Round incorporates an aluminum shell and
utilizes black powder as the propellant. The 37mm Skat Shell® is
designed to deliver multiple chemical canisters from a 37mm launcher
down range to the intended target zone.


The 37mm Skat Shell® OC Round is most widely used as a crowd management
tool for the rapid and broad deployment of chemical agent from a 37mm
launcher by a single grenadier. The 37mm Skat Shell® contains five (5)
separate sub-munitions that function individually once the round is
discharged.


The 37mm Skat Shell® is designed for outdoor use and has fire producing
capability. It is not intended for barricade penetration. Do NOT fire
directly at personnel, as serious injury or death may result.'

<https://www.defense-technology.com/products/chemical-agent-devices/chemical-projectiles/pyrotechnic/37-mm-projectiles/skat-shell-37mm-multiple-projectile-round-oc-1176038.html#start=1>

<https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/tear-gas-washington-dc-protests-st-johns-church/65-7e9a67c7-e40b-47a2-8060-3f7d908139dd>
h***@gmail.com
2020-06-05 04:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
From https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/floyd-protests-tear-gas-used-clear-park-trumps-walk/3128855001/

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests that "tear gas" and "riot control agents" are terms that can be used interchangeably. On its website, the agency also states that "pepper spray" is a "riot control agent."

"Riot control agents (sometimes referred to as 'tear gas') are chemical compounds that temporarily make people unable to function by causing irritation to the eyes, mouth, throat, lungs, and skin," the CDC's website reads, mentioning pepper spray specifically.

One of the priests driven away from the church has stated that he was hit by gas which caused coughing and tearing...
Post by Major Oz
....kinda invalidates most of your comments.
Yes, because information from the Trump administration is so reliable...
Piss off
h***@gmail.com
2020-06-05 04:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
You gullible assholes still think it was tear gas, eh ?
and do you believe police that this man tripped and fell?
Chrysi Cat
2020-06-03 18:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by Major Oz
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the
wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the
death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has
been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and
damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and
MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems
at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting
and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A.  They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it.  And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
B.  Think before you repeat stuff.  I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
White guy in Salt Lake City bringing a bow and shooting arrows into the crowd
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1266898528422551553
Cops stealing from pharmacies during 2015 unrest
https://reason.com/2018/02/13/two-baltimore-police-officers-found-guil/?amp
another cop was implicated but coincidentally was shot and killed
the day before his appearance at the court
Salt Late City shoving an older white guy with a cane to the ground
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtov7e/police_in_salt_lake_city_shove_an_old_man_with_a/
New York Cop Car drives through crowd
https://globalnews.ca/news/7008288/nypd-protesters-george-floyd/
(note that there are things being thrown at another police car, it
appears to be by white people where I saw the thrower)
Cop shoves woman to ground triggers seizure
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-protests-video-shows-nypd-officer-shoving-woman-to-ground/6221538/
White Guy in Minneapolis breaking windows
http://youtu.be/4vurPRZbLvc
Several reporters have been arrested on camera
There's video footage showing police deliberately shooting at media
https://fox40.com/news/police-appear-to-shoot-tv-reporter-photographer-with-pepper-balls/
a pickup drove through protestors
https://twitter.com/MayorOfTLH/status/1266804580316258310
and of course not every black person is associated with protestors
I'm certain that, somewhere, there is an account of a Girl Scout masturbating.
If you dwell on shit long enough...that becomes your universe.
You are a contemptible person.
And, then, as evidence illustrates, the real world
becomes...."contemptable".
Much of the real world is contemptible.
Police showing up in riot gear when a predominantly black crowd protests
is contemptible.
Trump clearing peaceful protestors by fire tear gas and rubber bullets
into a crowd without warning is contemptible.
And a smug asshole like you defending it time and again...
...is contemptible.
In fact, I'd suggest it's downright DEPLORABLE.

Except that these ya-yas decided that that was a term they'd "reclaim"
when Hildawg had the gall to use it.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Paul S Person
2020-05-31 17:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there, looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they can get
around actually having to do anything about it. And by that I mean
Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
That is the tradition ... but what if it is true that the damage /is/
mostly being done by people not from the city it is occurring in?
Anarchist or alt-right or both.
Post by Magewolf
B. Think before you repeat stuff. I am sure all the dark skinned
people in the reams of video of the looting and burning are white
nationalist just like they were the last time this happened and the time
before that and the time before that and so on.
This time you may be in for a shock, who can say?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-01 18:03:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:18:51 -0400, Magewolf
Post by Magewolf
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:04:15 PM UTC+10,
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-van
dalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in
the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests
against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s
bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was
broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul
and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of
problems at the protests have been caused by people from out
of state
White nationalist groups are posting about going there,
looting and stirring up problems
https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266741059163389952
has comments from a press conference they ran
Apparently the Atlanta Hall of Fame was looted by people not
from Atlanta...
A. They always blame "outsider" for all the problems so they
can get around actually having to do anything about it. And by
that I mean Republican and Democratic civic leaders.
That is the tradition ... but what if it is true that the damage
/is/ mostly being done by people not from the city it is
occurring in? Anarchist or alt-right or both.
And what if's they're not, and most have home addresses right in
the same city?

Or is this some kind of massive ocnsriacy that issued fake IDs to
everybone befoer bussing them in?

Make sure your tin fiol hat is firmly in place befoer answering.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
David Johnston
2020-06-01 02:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of statea
They backed down from that claim pretty damn fast. But apparently the
police have arrested a few white nationalists.
Paul S Person
2020-06-01 16:49:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 May 2020 20:01:00 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of statea
They backed down from that claim pretty damn fast. But apparently the
police have arrested a few white nationalists.
Who, although a small minority, could still be causing the majority of
the problems.

That's what happened here with the anarchists: a small percentage of
the protesters, but a very large percentage of the property damage.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Scott Lurndal
2020-06-01 18:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 31 May 2020 20:01:00 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of statea
They backed down from that claim pretty damn fast. But apparently the
police have arrested a few white nationalists.
Who, although a small minority, could still be causing the majority of
the problems.
I recall a _Mod Squad_ episode about external agitators and campus
protests....
Major Oz
2020-06-01 21:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 31 May 2020 20:01:00 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of statea
They backed down from that claim pretty damn fast. But apparently the
police have arrested a few white nationalists.
Who, although a small minority, could still be causing the majority of
the problems.
Well, of course.....fits the narrative.
Post by Paul S Person
That's what happened here with the anarchists: a small percentage of
the protesters, but a very large percentage of the property damage.
The protesters, by and large, are good folks....and joined by cops in many (most?) places.

The looters and arsonists are just street thugs....of all colors.

And the spirit of Dr. King is weeping.
Paul S Person
2020-06-02 16:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 31 May 2020 20:01:00 -0600, David Johnston
Post by David Johnston
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vandalized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the wave of vandalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems at the protests have been caused by people from out of statea
They backed down from that claim pretty damn fast. But apparently the
police have arrested a few white nationalists.
Who, although a small minority, could still be causing the majority of
the problems.
Well, of course.....fits the narrative.
Post by Paul S Person
That's what happened here with the anarchists: a small percentage of
the protesters, but a very large percentage of the property damage.
The protesters, by and large, are good folks....and joined by cops in many (most?) places.
The looters and arsonists are just street thugs....of all colors.
And the spirit of Dr. King is weeping.
And that's the difference from the "outside agitator" slogan of the
50s and 60s:

nobody blames the /protests/ on outside agitators -- just the
destruction

nobody claims that there would be no complaints from the citizens
without outside agitators -- the complaints are clearly and properly
motivated

And /that/ is progress.

We are /not/ our parents. Or grandparents.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-01 18:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vanda
lized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the
wave of v
andalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of
George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been
burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and
damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and
MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems
at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
Note also that the jail records do not appear to support that
claim:

https://www.fox9.com/news/jail-records-show-most-arrested-in-
minneapolis-riots-have-minnesota-addresses

https://tinyurl.com/y88xz6j5

About 3/4 had Minneapolis addresses.

So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Dimensional Traveler
2020-06-01 19:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-01 19:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
As am I! I mean, how could all those people who keep telling us to
trust the government possibly be wrong?!?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Dimensional Traveler
2020-06-01 21:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
As am I! I mean, how could all those people who keep telling us to
trust the government possibly be wrong?!?
Hmmm, my initial thought is that the government is more than just
politicians.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-01 22:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter
failure politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
As am I! I mean, how could all those people who keep telling us
to trust the government possibly be wrong?!?
Hmmm, my initial thought is that the government is more than
just politicians.
The vast majority is actually bureaucrats, becauze politicians need
someone to do the dirty work for them. (And that's the price of term
limits: politicians aren't around long enough to learn how to get
things done, so they have no choice but to rely on the bureaucrats
*complettely*. Bureaucrats who were never elected, are nearly
impossible to fire, and are unaccountable to much of anybody. If you
think term limits are a good idea, then you want to be more like
California.)
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
J. Clarke
2020-06-01 22:32:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 14:38:51 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
As am I! I mean, how could all those people who keep telling us to
trust the government possibly be wrong?!?
Hmmm, my initial thought is that the government is more than just
politicians.
Doesn't matter what the government is composed of, they are _not_ here
to help you no matter what they claim.
Major Oz
2020-06-02 00:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 14:38:51 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, by your accusations sir!
As am I! I mean, how could all those people who keep telling us to
trust the government possibly be wrong?!?
Hmmm, my initial thought is that the government is more than just
politicians.
Doesn't matter what the government is composed of, they are _not_ here
to help you no matter what they claim.
Poor, sad, little man.
Paul S Person
2020-06-02 16:50:51 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:00:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-vanda
lized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in the
wave of v
andalism that struck the city amid protests against the death of
George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has been
burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into and
damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul and
MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of problems
at the protests have been caused by people from out of state
Note also that the jail records do not appear to support that
https://www.fox9.com/news/jail-records-show-most-arrested-in-
minneapolis-riots-have-minnesota-addresses
https://tinyurl.com/y88xz6j5
About 3/4 had Minneapolis addresses.
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter failure
politicians lie.
But were those 3/4 the ones doing to property damage, or were they not
moving fast enough to suit the police? What, IOW, were they arrested
for?

That said, it is not impossible that at least some of the looting was
done by locals.

Thanks for the info; but a lot more research will be needed (and will,
no doubt, be done) before this is over.

If it ever /is/ over.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-02 17:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:00:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 12:04:15 PM UTC+10,
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Found it at alt.obituaries.
http://file770.com/minneapolis-sf-bookstore-burned-another-van
da lized/
Minneapolis SF Bookstore Burned, Another Vandalized
Posted on May 30, 2020 by Mike Glyer
Two Minneapolis science fiction landmarks were caught up in
the wave of v
andalism that struck the city amid protests against the death
of George Floyd. Don Blyly’s Uncle Hugo’s bookstore has
been burned, and Greg Ketter’s DreamHaven was broken into
and damaged.
Note that the Governor, Minneapolis Mayor, Mayor of St Paul
and MN Attorney General are all saying that the majority of
problems at the protests have been caused by people from out
of state
Note also that the jail records do not appear to support that
https://www.fox9.com/news/jail-records-show-most-arrested-in-
minneapolis-riots-have-minnesota-addresses
https://tinyurl.com/y88xz6j5
About 3/4 had Minneapolis addresses.
So apparently, when backed into a corner with their utter
failure politicians lie.
But were those 3/4 the ones doing to property damage, or were
they not moving fast enough to suit the police? What, IOW, were
they arrested for?
Obviously for not chanting "Orange Man Bad" loud enough, in your
world.

Take your meds, and maybe the voices will go away.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-05-31 06:23:58 UTC
Permalink
I don't like the rioting and looting at all.

Not just because of the innocent victims who will have suffered serious losses of
property.

But also because I remember what happened after the Rodney King riots. The man who
captured what the police were doing lost his job and family, his "life was
ruined"... because a lot of people there blamed him for the riots.

There is understandable anger among black people about what keeps happening... but
there are also people who take advantage of an opportunity to engage in looting.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2020-05-31 06:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
But also because I remember what happened after the Rodney King riots. The man who
captured what the police were doing lost his job and family, his "life was
ruined"... because a lot of people there blamed him for the riots.
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.

So these riots can help to prevent justice.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-05-31 07:17:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
But also because I remember what happened after the Rodney King riots. The man who
captured what the police were doing lost his job and family, his "life was
ruined"... because a lot of people there blamed him for the riots.
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Post by Quadibloc
So these riots can help to prevent justice.
John Savard
Quadibloc
2020-05-31 09:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.

However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.

John Savard
Kevrob
2020-05-31 13:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.

[quote]

Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence

By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey

...

But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.

[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3

Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.

There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.

Kevin R
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 13:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Well here's a demo of some of the cop's greatest hits
https://twitter.com/AnnaKendrick47/status/1266963846649933824
Includes riding a horse over somebody
Driving a car through a crowd
Various macings of people posing no threat...

and here's videos and stories of them targeting journalists
https://twitter.com/KABGreek/status/1266954839864598529
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 15:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Well here's a demo of some of the cop's greatest hits
https://twitter.com/AnnaKendrick47/status/1266963846649933824
Includes riding a horse over somebody
Driving a car through a crowd
Various macings of people posing no threat...
and here's videos and stories of them targeting journalists
https://twitter.com/KABGreek/status/1266954839864598529
and here's police kicking a protester who's sitting down after they've maced her

https://twitter.com/the7goonies/status/1266989439160590336

Looks like police are doing a lot of escalating...
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 15:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Well here's a demo of some of the cop's greatest hits
https://twitter.com/AnnaKendrick47/status/1266963846649933824
Includes riding a horse over somebody
Driving a car through a crowd
Various macings of people posing no threat...
and here's videos and stories of them targeting journalists
https://twitter.com/KABGreek/status/1266954839864598529
and here's police kicking a protester who's sitting down after they've maced her
https://twitter.com/the7goonies/status/1266989439160590336
Looks like police are doing a lot of escalating...
cop at a protest flicking a white power sign (yes, they've stolen it. The swastika wasn't originally a Nazi sign either)

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1266994073501487104
h***@gmail.com
2020-05-31 16:06:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Well here's a demo of some of the cop's greatest hits
https://twitter.com/AnnaKendrick47/status/1266963846649933824
Includes riding a horse over somebody
Driving a car through a crowd
Various macings of people posing no threat...
and here's videos and stories of them targeting journalists
https://twitter.com/KABGreek/status/1266954839864598529
and here's police kicking a protester who's sitting down after they've maced her
https://twitter.com/the7goonies/status/1266989439160590336
Looks like police are doing a lot of escalating...
cop at a protest flicking a white power sign (yes, they've stolen it. The swastika wasn't originally a Nazi sign either)
https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1266994073501487104
kneeling on somebody's neck is bad you say?
https://twitter.com/mattmillsphoto/status/1266960081389629440
h***@gmail.com
2020-06-05 13:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Cop gropes woman then multiple cops bash her
https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1268391718086422528

and another person gets pushed over.
Magewolf
2020-05-31 14:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.

Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
Paul S Person
2020-05-31 17:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
At least one mayor, IIRC, has stated that /all/ of the rioters
arrested on one night were /not/ from the area.

This sort of thing can be checked, eventually. Records are kept of
arrests, addresses are written down, photos are taken.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Major Oz
2020-05-31 17:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
At least one mayor, IIRC, has stated that /all/ of the rioters
arrested on one night were /not/ from the area.
This sort of thing can be checked, eventually. Records are kept of
arrests, addresses are written down, photos are taken.
....careful....

That doesn't fit the narrative
Paul S Person
2020-06-01 16:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
At least one mayor, IIRC, has stated that /all/ of the rioters
arrested on one night were /not/ from the area.
This sort of thing can be checked, eventually. Records are kept of
arrests, addresses are written down, photos are taken.
....careful....
That doesn't fit the narrative
He also corrected himself the next day.

This stuff is moving so fast that I, for one, cannot keep up with it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Magewolf
2020-06-01 17:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
At least one mayor, IIRC, has stated that /all/ of the rioters
arrested on one night were /not/ from the area.
This sort of thing can be checked, eventually. Records are kept of
arrests, addresses are written down, photos are taken.
....careful....
That doesn't fit the narrative
He also corrected himself the next day.
This stuff is moving so fast that I, for one, cannot keep up with it.
The thing is that it is hard and easy to notice moving in large groups
of "protesters" especially on short notice. So even if "outside" groups
were influencing things nearly all of the people rioting are going to be
local.

And I remember back in the day I was at a protest that turned into a
brawl between two "youth" groups as the organizers called them. All the
locals not fighting were let off with a warning while all the out of
towners were taken in.
Major Oz
2020-06-01 21:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Major Oz
Post by Paul S Person
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
At least one mayor, IIRC, has stated that /all/ of the rioters
arrested on one night were /not/ from the area.
This sort of thing can be checked, eventually. Records are kept of
arrests, addresses are written down, photos are taken.
....careful....
That doesn't fit the narrative
He also corrected himself the next day.
This stuff is moving so fast that I, for one, cannot keep up with it.
The thing is that it is hard and easy to notice moving in large groups
of "protesters" especially on short notice. So even if "outside" groups
were influencing things nearly all of the people rioting are going to be
local.
And I remember back in the day I was at a protest that turned into a
brawl between two "youth" groups as the organizers called them. All the
locals not fighting were let off with a warning while all the out of
towners were taken in.
....as it should be.....
J. Clarke
2020-05-31 18:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.

Of course pointing that out might lead the cops to stage a coup.
Robert Carnegie
2020-05-31 20:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Magewolf
Post by Kevrob
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
And it should be obvious what that means - the next time the police mistreat a
black man, a white man with a phone... will be tempted to keep the phone in his
pocket and forget about it.
You do know that black people have phones do you not?
Yes. And some of them even have those fancy newfangled smartphones with cameras
in them, not the kind that is at home, attached to the wall with a wire.
However, just because white people aren't the only possible witnesses doesn't
mean it isn't a bad thing to lose them.
If there are "outside agitators" it isn't yet clear who they ll
may be.
[quote]
Officials blame differing groups of ‘outsiders’ for violence
By Michael Balsamo and Kathleen Hennessey
...
But the state and federal officials have offered differing
assessments of who the outsiders are. They’ve blamed left-wing
extremists, far-right white nationalists and even suggested the
involvement of drug cartels. These leaders have offered little
evidence to back up those claims, and the chaos of the protests
makes verifying identities and motives exceedingly difficult.
[/quote] https://apnews.com/93776458f930fdb4250bd1af62a481e3
Journalism has been called "the first draft of history."
First drafts often need revisions.
There's no reason these protests and riots couldn't have
attracted disparate groups. with differing agendas.
Kevin R
It is always "safer" to blame outsiders during these messes. Getting up
there and saying a group of your own citizens were happy to take the
first chance to go on a lawless rampage makes you look bad. And in
these times could completely tank your career since the vast majority of
the rampagers are not white.
Which is why you are getting all these stories( with little to no
actual evidence) about outsiders coming in and taking over these
completely peaceful protests and forcing these poor innocent, will-less
people to loot and burn.
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
You’re holding off on the word “murderer”.
Post by J. Clarke
Of course pointing that out might lead the cops to stage a coup.
Quadibloc
2020-06-02 03:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
You’re holding off on the word “murderer”.
He has been charged with third-degree murder, but his guilt on that charge is a
matter that is currently before the courts, so such restraint is not unreasonable.

John Savard
Paul S Person
2020-06-02 16:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
You’re holding off on the word “murderer”.
He has been charged with third-degree murder, but his guilt on that charge is a
matter that is currently before the courts, so such restraint is not unreasonable.
The relevant Medical Examiner has ruled it a "homicide". So,
officially, the officer's actions /caused/ the death. IIRC, 3rd-degree
murder requires only that the officer intended to harm the victim, not
an intent to kill him. Manslaughter would apply if he didn't intend
any harm.

But he won't be legally a murderer unless and until a jury convicts
him of being one.

The usual phraseology here would be "alleged murderer", BTW.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2020-06-02 03:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
Oh, well, of course.

But then one could just as easily blame the person who recorded the incident on
video, so that a fuss would be made about it. (Remember Rodney King.)

Of course the cop is to blame for lighting the fuse.

But the people who loot, who set fires, who smash windows... they're not robots.
Yes, there is understandably a lot of reason for anger. But even justifiable
anger does not make one not responsible for actions which affect innocent third
parties.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-06-02 16:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
Oh, well, of course.
But then one could just as easily blame the person who recorded the incident on
video, so that a fuss would be made about it. (Remember Rodney King.)
Nope, it's the asshole who did it who gets the blame. If he hadn't
behaved like an asshole then there would have been nothing to record.
Post by Quadibloc
Of course the cop is to blame for lighting the fuse.
But the people who loot, who set fires, who smash windows... they're not robots.
Yes, there is understandably a lot of reason for anger. But even justifiable
anger does not make one not responsible for actions which affect innocent third
parties.
In the view of the rioters, the third parties are not "innocent".
Quadibloc
2020-06-02 22:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
But then one could just as easily blame the person who recorded the incident on
video, so that a fuss would be made about it. (Remember Rodney King.)
Nope, it's the asshole who did it who gets the blame. If he hadn't
behaved like an asshole then there would have been nothing to record.
Getting blame and deserving blame are not the same thing.

John Savard
Paul S Person
2020-06-02 17:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
And it's typical of the government to blame everybody but the asshole
cop who could have prevented the whole mess by not being an asshole.
Oh, well, of course.
But then one could just as easily blame the person who recorded the incident on
video, so that a fuss would be made about it. (Remember Rodney King.)
Of course the cop is to blame for lighting the fuse.
But the people who loot, who set fires, who smash windows... they're not robots.
Yes, there is understandably a lot of reason for anger. But even justifiable
anger does not make one not responsible for actions which affect innocent third
parties.
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?

Once the violence starts, of course, then it will spread to affect
people not responsible, but who can say, at this point, how or why the
violence (not the protest) started, that the first targets were /not/
at least considered to be responsible by the rioters?

I have not, for example, seen any update on the allegedly-counterfeit
bill the victim allegedly tried to pass. Has it been checked? Was it
actually counterfeit? Or were the shopkeepers ... overly vigilant as
well as, perhaps, overly willing to agree with the 911 operator that
the victim might be under the influence of a drug?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2020-06-02 22:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Or were the shopkeepers ... overly vigilant as
well as, perhaps, overly willing to agree with the 911 operator that
the victim might be under the influence of a drug?
We know that fentanyl is deadly. So deadly, perhaps, that it is likely to cause
someone to be unable to breathe at any moment, so that it's more likely for
someone who had taken it to not be able to breathe because of the drug, and not
because someone is kneeling on his neck at the time?

Maybe the theory being pushed is that the officer wasn't kneeling hard enough to
cause problems for any normal non-fentanyl-taking person. And no doubt he was
just faking claustrophobia to cause trouble. I'm afraid that those are stories
that will need a lot of evidence to be taken seriously.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2020-06-02 22:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.

Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.

While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.

So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.

Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2020-06-02 23:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.

I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Alan Baker
2020-06-02 23:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.

Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.

Show up...

ARMED!

...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
Major Oz
2020-06-03 03:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your universe.
Alan Baker
2020-06-03 03:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your universe.
You're a contemptible little man, so what you say matters very little.

The facts speak for themselves.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-06-03 06:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your universe.
Humans are not logical.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Major Oz
2020-06-03 16:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your universe.
Humans are not logical.
I agree that you are strong evidence for that argument.

Thankfully.....you are wrong.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-06-03 17:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Major Oz
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Major Oz
Post by Alan Baker
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if nothing else, it
clouds the issue and certainly cannot help with a resolution), but
what makes you think they aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems with black customers,
that might be true, but very quickly so many shops were attacked that this
becomes a detail for which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly protests do help to
achieve progress - because the potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't simply ignored; one of the
benefits of change is that it makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as opposed to radical ones are
understandably at pains to avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging
lawlessness, theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at least in
the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since the majority public will
understandably put its own safety as the first priority - and, psychologically,
it is natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks like backing
down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as I've pointed out, the
Rodney King riots show that the whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving
blacks more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good way. Right now, one
very possible consequence of the riots is that Trump is now more likely to be
re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of movement,
perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are concerned even freedom
of speech have been severely restricted here. A Democratic convention
is about to begin in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be
any other way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since then, all
it has learned is how to be more and more authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met with police
in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to restrain
themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your universe.
Humans are not logical.
I agree that you are strong evidence for that argument.
Thankfully.....you are wrong.
You really think the police are as likely to provoke an armed crowd as
an unarmed one? The instinct for self-preservation will push them
towards "not".

And you if you seriously believe humans are logical you REALLY need to
do some reading on psychological research done over the last 50 or so years.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-03 18:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 1:39:35 AM UTC-5, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 6:52:24 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker
Post by Alan Baker
On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 11:04:45 AM UTC-6, Paul S
Post by Paul S Person
Not to disagree with the wrongness of violence (if
nothing else, it clouds the issue and certainly cannot
help with a resolution), but what makes you think they
aren't "responsible"?
If some of the first shops to be attacked had problems
with black customers, that might be true, but very quickly
so many shops were attacked that this becomes a detail for
which I had no space.
Already, some people are pointing out that disorderly
protests do help to achieve progress - because the
potential for disorder is part of the reason that
non-violent protests and non-violent activists aren't
simply ignored; one of the benefits of change is that it
makes disorder less likely.
While I can't deny this, mainstream commentators as
opposed to radical ones are understandably at pains to
avoid being seen as condoning or encouraging lawlessness,
theft, and property damage as well as violence. Also, at
least in the short term, riots do cloud the issue, since
the majority public will understandably put its own safety
as the first priority - and, psychologically, it is
natural for people to strongly resist anything which looks
like backing down to force or the threat of force.
So the first response is repression, not change - and, as
I've pointed out, the Rodney King riots show that the
whistleblower can become the scapegoat, leaving blacks
more isolated.
Havoc like this changes the public mood. And not in a good
way. Right now, one very possible consequence of the riots
is that Trump is now more likely to be re-elected.
Where the Hell is Walter Cronkite when we need him?
"In the name of security, freedom of the press, freedom of
movement, perhaps as far the demonstrators themselves are
concerned even freedom of speech have been severely
restricted here. A Democratic convention is about to begin
in a police state. There just doesn't seem to be any other
way to say it". --Walter Cronkite, then the CBS Evening
News anchor, reporting the 1968 Democratic Convention in
Chicago.
I had hoped that our government had learned something since
then, all it has learned is how to be more and more
authoritarian.
Yup.
Show up to protest in the wrong colour skin and you get met
with police in riot gear.
Show up...
ARMED!
...to protest, and magically the police seem to know how to
restrain themselves.
If that is your summation.......no logic exists in your
universe.
Humans are not logical.
I agree that you are strong evidence for that argument.
Thankfully.....you are wrong.
You really think the police are as likely to provoke an armed
crowd as an unarmed one? The instinct for self-preservation
will push them towards "not".
And you if you seriously believe humans are logical you REALLY
need to do some reading on psychological research done over the
last 50 or so years.
You do realize that you're talking to someone who is as crazy and
stupid as Baker, don't you? Don't you?
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Quadibloc
2020-06-03 23:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
You really think the police are as likely to provoke an armed crowd as
an unarmed one? The instinct for self-preservation will push them
towards "not".
They won't exactly _provoke_ an armed crowd. But they might instruct it to drop
its weapons and fall down on its faces, and if it fails to comply with
sufficient alacrity, annihilate it.

Like on a SWAT call. This does, however, require that the police have the crowd
well outgunned.

The police have indeed demonstrated they have a strong instinct for self-
preservation, but that instinct does not always manifest itself as a de-
escalation of confrontations.

John Savard
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2020-06-03 23:35:44 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 11:23:27 AM UTC-6, Dimensional
Post by Dimensional Traveler
You really think the police are as likely to provoke an armed
crowd as an unarmed one? The instinct for self-preservation
will push them towards "not".
They won't exactly _provoke_ an armed crowd. But they might
instruct it to drop its weapons and fall down on its faces, and
if it fails to comply with sufficient alacrity, annihilate it.
Like on a SWAT call. This does, however, require that the police
have the crowd well outgunned.
The police have indeed demonstrated they have a strong instinct
for self- preservation, but that instinct does not always
manifest itself as a de- escalation of confrontations.
Under nearly all other circumstances, police training is to be
intimidating as a means of dominating the situation, and cowing the
perp into submission. As a general rule, it's not a bad tactic.

Confronting a hostile crowd is an exception. Not all police,
including high ranking police officials, understand this.
--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
Major Oz
2020-06-02 21:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
I don't like the rioting and looting at all.
Not just because of the innocent victims who will have suffered serious losses of
property.
But also because I remember what happened after the Rodney King riots. The man who
captured what the police were doing lost his job and family, his "life was
ruined"... because a lot of people there blamed him for the riots.
There is understandable anger among black people about what keeps happening... but
there are also people who take advantage of an opportunity to engage in looting.
John Savard
No.........say it isn't so.
Loading...