Awfully quiet in here...

Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Hey!
Is anybody else out there?
Or has the disaster that is the USA meant that they've already started
trucking people off to the ovens???
Only a few message from James and one from Lynn - well, apart from the
people/bots that I filter, that is.

I imagine the American posters are either updating their passports
or making lists of which neighbours to inform on and the rest of us
are trying to work out if we're Austria or Poland.

(if you have to ask, you're always Poland)

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-07 16:18:52 UTC

As for me I will stay here in San Francisco as long as I can.
The Darn Old Fart shortly to be in charge but as yet impotent to
act may fume noxiously but he does not smoke. And he could die before
he does anything too terrible aside from successfully dividing the
nation.
I have no neighbors to inform on nor passport to update
nor funds to flee. Not so many years ago I tried to find a
better place for me to be than in San Francisco and not even
Seattle tempted me.

bliss

Paul S Person

2024-11-07 16:40:59 UTC

On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:18:52 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Assuming you mean while actually in Office, then Vance would take
over.

And /that/ would be pretty terrible, IMHO.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I have no neighbors to inform on nor passport to update
nor funds to flee. Not so many years ago I tried to find a
better place for me to be than in San Francisco and not even
Seattle tempted me.

Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.

Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-07 17:39:21 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:18:52 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Assuming you mean while actually in Office, then Vance would take
over.
And /that/ would be pretty terrible, IMHO.

Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Except in drought years. San Francisco's natural circulation
of air or as we refer to it "Our Natural Air Conditioning" fails at
times as well.

bliss

Scott Dorsey

2024-11-07 23:45:56 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Paul S Person

2024-11-08 16:27:55 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

James Nicoll

2024-11-08 17:04:27 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

Robert Woodward

2024-11-08 17:58:22 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

That will wipe out Tacoma; but downtown Seattle is probably outside the
danger zone (the airport and adjacent hotels are up on a plateau and
should be above all of that).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward ***@drizzle.com

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 16:28:25 UTC

On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:58:22 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

That will wipe out Tacoma; but downtown Seattle is probably outside the
danger zone (the airport and adjacent hotels are up on a plateau and
should be above all of that).

And, IIRC, the Duwamish valley, which might be considered part of
Seattle.

But, yes, the lahar probably wouldn't reach downtown. The accompanying
earthquake(s), though, surely will.

And then there's the ash ... I wasn't here for Mt St Helens but we
apparently got an inch or two of it. Cars didn't start -- their
radiators were clogged, IIRC.

All that and the general pandemonium (we panic every Winter when it
snows because it doesn't snow that often, what do you think a volcanic
eruption will do to us?) would probably shut down/cancel any
conventions.

The major airport (Sea-Tac) might survive, but that doesn't mean it
will be useable for a while, possibly a few weeks.

Amtrak and Greyhound (or other such buses) ... would probably
encounter the lahar. Roads and tracks take time to replace. Bridges
take even longer.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-09 17:14:42 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:58:22 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

That will wipe out Tacoma; but downtown Seattle is probably outside the
danger zone (the airport and adjacent hotels are up on a plateau and
should be above all of that).

And, IIRC, the Duwamish valley, which might be considered part of
Seattle.
But, yes, the lahar probably wouldn't reach downtown. The accompanying
earthquake(s), though, surely will.
And then there's the ash ... I wasn't here for Mt St Helens but we
apparently got an inch or two of it. Cars didn't start -- their
radiators were clogged, IIRC.
All that and the general pandemonium (we panic every Winter when it
snows because it doesn't snow that often, what do you think a volcanic
eruption will do to us?) would probably shut down/cancel any
conventions.
The major airport (Sea-Tac) might survive, but that doesn't mean it
will be useable for a while, possibly a few weeks.
Amtrak and Greyhound (or other such buses) ... would probably
encounter the lahar. Roads and tracks take time to replace. Bridges
take even longer.

And the memory of Dunkirk will be replaced with the memory of Seattle....

:P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-09 01:34:20 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

Or the Cascadia subduction zone lets rip - Richter 9.0 and a tsunami.

pt

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 16:46:21 UTC

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 20:34:20 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Or Mt Rainier erupts, sending a lahar downhill.

Or the Cascadia subduction zone lets rip - Richter 9.0 and a tsunami.

That's off the coast.

The tsunami would have to cross the Olympic Peninsula heading somewhat
South or the flatter ground in SW Washington heading somewhat North.

But, as I used to say when at work after pointing this out, "if you
look at the Olympic Peninsula and see a wave standing a mile above the
peaks, evacuation would be a good idea". A sufficiently /tall/ wave
might make it, but it would be rather dissipated.

That leaves Puget Sound. To reach Seattle, it would have to enter a
small pipe called "The Straights of Juan de Fuca" going mostly East,
bounce off Bellingham to go mostly South, and bounce off Bainbridge
Island (now heading East) to reach Seattle. This would dissipate a lot
of energy. And water.

It would then have the option of going through downtown (flat
initially but backed by hills before reaching Lake Washington),
Ballard (coastal range, flat, Phinney Ridge, U district, the ridge to
the west of my house, our valley, the ridge to the east of my house,
more flatlands, Lake Washington.

Or it could force itself into an even smaller pipe (the Ship Canal),
devestate the lower parts of Ballard, the U District and the southern
end of the UW Campus, where the UW Hospital may still be located, Lake
Union, our valley (U Village and points south), and over-the-ridge
(Children's Hospital) and finally Lake Washington.

Lake Washington is quite large, but a small tsunami from the
earthquake would be possible and, of course, if enough water from the
big tsunami gets there, the level could go up. IIRC, up to 50' was
given at one time.

My estimates for a 50' rise in water level downtown were that the
waves would be lapping on the West side of 2nd Ave. For where I am,
since the serious slopes don't start until North of
Blakeley/Burke-Gilman trail, my guess would be the south edge of 55th.
The U District up to at least 45th, maybe Ravenna Blvd, would be under
water.

This would be very inconvenient. All my shopping is done in stores
that would be very very soggy. I would probably have to go up to 65th
to find bus service, when that is restored.

This is all speculative, of course. It is the nature of disasters to
be hard to predict in detail.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Robert Woodward

2024-11-08 17:56:24 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

Post by Paul S Person
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 16:47:53 UTC

On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:56:24 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

What part of "it always rains in Seattle" don't you understand?

But I agree that that only instance of freezing rain that I
experienced was on a 12/23.

Post by Paul S Person
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Robert Woodward

2024-11-09 18:34:37 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:56:24 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

What part of "it always rains in Seattle" don't you understand?

My observation part applied to the freezing part.

Post by Paul S Person
But I agree that that only instance of freezing rain that I
experienced was on a 12/23.

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-10 00:41:43 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:56:24 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

What part of "it always rains in Seattle" don't you understand?
But I agree that that only instance of freezing rain that I
experienced was on a 12/23.

Post by Paul S Person
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

I've been to Seattle twice, both times it was beautifully sunny.

The second time was while I was taking training at Microsoft, in
Redmond. At the start of the course, everyone was asked to stand
up and introduce themselves. I did, and added 'Clearly, I've been
lied to about the climate here. Everytime I've been here the weather
has be great."

There was silence, then someone yelled "Don't let that man leave!".

pt

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-10 03:15:30 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:56:24 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

What part of "it always rains in Seattle" don't you understand?
But I agree that that only instance of freezing rain that I
experienced was on a 12/23.

Post by Paul S Person
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

I've been to Seattle twice, both times it was beautifully sunny.
The second time was while I was taking training at Microsoft, in
Redmond. At the start of the course, everyone was asked to stand
up and introduce themselves. I did, and added 'Clearly, I've been
lied to about the climate here. Everytime I've been here the weather
has be great."
There was silence, then someone yelled "Don't let that man leave!".

"We need to sacrifice him to the Sun God!!!" :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Paul S Person

2024-11-10 16:26:08 UTC

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 19:41:43 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 08 Nov 2024 09:56:24 -0800, Robert Woodward

Post by Paul S Person
Seattle doesn't want you. We are actually considering reviving the
Lesser Seattle movement of the past.
Remember, it always rains in Seattle.

Might be a nice place for a Worldcon, though.

Unless we are under a Heat Dome and the power fails.

More a danger for a Westercon, but still possible.

Post by Paul S Person
Or we get another dose of Freezing Rain. One lasting more than one
day.

Thankfully, the Worldcon won't be in December, January, or February.

What part of "it always rains in Seattle" don't you understand?
But I agree that that only instance of freezing rain that I
experienced was on a 12/23.

Post by Paul S Person
Small tornadoes are rare, but not unknown. Maybe once a decade or two.

I've been to Seattle twice, both times it was beautifully sunny.
The second time was while I was taking training at Microsoft, in
Redmond. At the start of the course, everyone was asked to stand
up and introduce themselves. I did, and added 'Clearly, I've been
lied to about the climate here. Everytime I've been here the weather
has be great."
There was silence, then someone yelled "Don't let that man leave!".

The Voice of Lesser Seattle.

One similarly beautiful day, as I was walking over the ridge to the
West to the U District, for about 50 steps I was deluged with rain.
And I mean /rain/, not just a sprinkle. Clear before, clear after.

It really /does/ rain all the time in Seattle.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

William Hyde

2024-11-07 17:52:03 UTC

There are very few places in the world where I arrive, and decide in
seconds that I'd like to live there.

San Francisco is one of those.

William Hyde

James Nicoll

2024-11-07 18:55:32 UTC

Â Â Â Â As for me I will stay here in San Francisco as long as I can.
The Darn Old Fart shortly to be in charge but as yet impotent to
act may fume noxiously but he does not smoke. And he could die before
he does anything too terrible aside from successfully dividing the
nation.
Â Â Â Â I have no neighbors to inform on nor passport to update
nor funds to flee. Not so many years ago I tried to find a
better place for me to be than in San Francisco and not even
Seattle tempted me.

There are very few places in the world where I arrive, and decide in
seconds that I'd like to live there.
San Francisco is one of those.

Hilariously, my father fled from SF to Waterloo, Ontario. Waterloo was
a rustic backwater but it had a university that wanted to hire him,
it had far more interesting weather than SF, and it was far enough
from his parents they could not drop by unannounced.

Bill was the sort of person who wanders out into a hurricane to see if
he can raft down a river during peak winds, and who takes his kids out
to see the local river during a tropical storm.

(Normally the river was a creek)

2024-11-07 22:14:25 UTC

There are very few places in the world where I arrive, and decide in seconds
that I'd like to live there.
San Francisco is one of those.
William Hyde

Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug users on
the street. There was also a lot of homos in some areas which was not
good. It was not pleasant at all, although the city itself was nice
and fairly walkable.

William Hyde

2024-11-08 22:00:25 UTC

There are very few places in the world where I arrive, and decide in
seconds that I'd like to live there.
San Francisco is one of those.
William Hyde

Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug users
on the street.

Parts of it, yes.

I arrived in SF from a small city with no obvious drug users or vagrants.

This was because the local police grabbed those people, gave them a
beating, and dumped them in the next county. Somebody else's problem.

The cities that are nice and clean absolutely everywhere fester with a
deeper evil. If "out of sight, out of mind" is your thing, then welcome
to blandsville. Just be aware of why it's so nice and clean.

Besides, as a wholehearted free market type, shouldn't you be OK with
drug users on the street? They're exercising their economic right to
buy the product they want and use it unrestrained by those nasty
government regulations you hate so much.

Next time you meet one, thank him or her for helping to spread freedom.

There was also a lot of homos in some areas which was not

Post by D
good.

I don't understand why you care.

It was not pleasant at all, although the city itself was nice and

Post by D
fairly walkable.

Walkable, and much worth walking to.

William Hyde

2024-11-09 13:21:44 UTC

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug users on
the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

Post by William Hyde
The cities that are nice and clean absolutely everywhere fester with a deeper
evil. If "out of sight, out of mind" is your thing, then welcome to
blandsville. Just be aware of why it's so nice and clean.

Blandsville, here I come! ;) Jokes aside, would rural, republican and
bible thumping US in the form of Idaho, Montana or Wyoming be
categorized as blandsville? If so, that is definitely a place where I
would like to live my life.

Post by William Hyde
Besides, as a wholehearted free market type, shouldn't you be OK with drug
users on the street? They're exercising their economic right to buy the
product they want and use it unrestrained by those nasty government
regulations you hate so much.

YES! But what we are seeing today is people crushed under a government
system that punishes victimless crimes severely. That makes it worse for
them.

In my world, anyone would be free to use any drugs he wants on his own
property. Anyone would also _not_ be free to act or do drugs on someone
elses private property. In my world, the tragedy of the commons would be
eliminated by eliminating the commons. Thereby the tragedy is eliminated
too.

So as long as I have to endure the government, I want them to arrest,
beat up, lock up, or dump elsewhere, since that is what I pay them for.
But, if I had the choice of no government, and more freedom, I'd take
the bad with the good. Your analysis of my preferences is correct here.

Post by William Hyde
Next time you meet one, thank him or her for helping to spread freedom.

Will do.

Post by D
There was also a lot of homos in some areas which was not good.

I don't understand why you care.

Because they are leftists and work hard to sexualize society and
children, and destroy family values. The worst kind display their vile
sexual preferences in public, which is not something I like to see.

The conservative ones don't wave it in my face and keep it to the
bedroom, which is exactly how I want it to be. In the privacy of your
bedroom, as long as it does not involve children or animals or dead
people who have not consented before they died, it's all fine by me.

Post by D
It was not pleasant at all, although the city itself was nice and
fairly walkable.

Walkable, and much worth walking to.
William Hyde

William Hyde

2024-11-09 19:42:42 UTC

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug
users on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is
illegal and hurts people you dislike.

William Hyde

2024-11-09 21:07:57 UTC

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug users
on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is illegal
and hurts people you dislike.

Nope... the correct interpretation is that as long as I have to endure
government and having my money stolen in the form of taxes, I prefer that
it does something that aligns with my interests. Shipping drug users somewhere
else would align with my interests, so there you are correct.

William Hyde

Titus G

2024-11-10 04:45:10 UTC

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug
users on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is
illegal and hurts people you dislike.

Now that D is here, the entertainment level is surpassing the Jibini level.

2024-11-10 10:33:53 UTC

Post by Titus G

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug
users on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is
illegal and hurts people you dislike.

Now that D is here, the entertainment level is surpassing the Jibini level.

Thank you, thank you, you're very kind! =)

Gary R. Schmidt

2024-11-10 10:44:04 UTC

Post by Titus G

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug
users on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is
illegal and hurts people you dislike.

Now that D is here, the entertainment level is surpassing the Jibini level.

Nah, D's not as entertaining as Terry, he's really just a one-trick pony.

Terry could come out with new lines and bounce around like a
grass-hopper in a BugCatcher - and probably would have baited D into an
apoplexy, consistency was not one of his strong points. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Chris Buckley

2024-11-10 15:14:40 UTC

Post by Gary R. Schmidt

Post by Titus G

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug
users on the street.

Sounds like heaven! Police acting, doing something, and solving the
problem! =)

So you are in fact in favour of government regulation, provided it is
illegal and hurts people you dislike.

Now that D is here, the entertainment level is surpassing the Jibini level.

Nah, D's not as entertaining as Terry, he's really just a one-trick pony.
Terry could come out with new lines and bounce around like a
grass-hopper in a BugCatcher - and probably would have baited D into an
apoplexy, consistency was not one of his strong points. :-)

Very true, though I'm not sure inconsistency is the right word. I found
him quite consistent with himself, just very non-categorizable. He
certainly would poke fun at anyone he found foolish. I miss him.

Chris

Scott Dorsey

2024-11-08 22:37:03 UTC

Post by D
Why SF? I was there 8 years ago and found it dirty with many drug users on
the street. There was also a lot of homos in some areas which was not
good. It was not pleasant at all, although the city itself was nice
and fairly walkable.

As a part-time homo myself I would consider that to be a feature and not
a bug.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

2024-11-09 13:26:49 UTC

As a part-time homo myself I would consider that to be a feature and not
a bug.
--scott

Yes, but I am anti-homo (see earlier post) so for me it is a bug.

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-08 02:42:31 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.

For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.

Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.

pt

2024-11-08 15:23:34 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.

I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Paul S Person

2024-11-08 16:33:28 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.
I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Ah.

Idaho.

Or Montana.

(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-08 21:08:49 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.
I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Ah.
Idaho.
Or Montana.
(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

Thank you Paul, that confirms what I have so far been thinking about in
terms of places to move to. I have also heard good things about Wyoming,
South dakota, and someone, as strange as it may sound, also recommended
the far eastern parts of oregon. Not sure about that one, but that was one
recommendation as well.

William Hyde

2024-11-08 22:17:28 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.
I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Ah.
Idaho.
Or Montana.
(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

Eastern Oregon is indeed very conservative.

But if you want warm weather, I would recommend College Station, TX,
which usually votes more republican than the state as a whole. Its twin
town, Bryan, has experienced something of a rebirth. When I was there
it sported cracked sidewalks and a downtown that was empty after 5 pm
But it now has good restaurants and uncracked sidewalks. Even College
station now has sidewalks, though there's nowhere to take them.

Though perhaps the sidewalks have attracted flocks of liberals. They do
that.

Do take note, though, that if a state official harms you or your family,
say by running you over, shooting you, or so on, the compensation you
can get is strictly capped at a low figure. Best have really good
insurance.

Still, it's worth it so as to live without people who senselessly hold
opinions that differ from yours constantly visible to you.

OBSF, Gene Wolfe studied there, in the days when female students were
not allowed.

William Hyde

2024-11-09 13:26:08 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Ah.
Idaho.
Or Montana.
(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

Thank you Paul, that confirms what I have so far been thinking about in
terms of places to move to. I have also heard good things about Wyoming,
South dakota, and someone, as strange as it may sound, also recommended the
far eastern parts of oregon. Not sure about that one, but that was one
recommendation as well.

Eastern Oregon is indeed very conservative.

Interesting! Thank you for the confirmation William! =)

Post by William Hyde
But if you want warm weather, I would recommend College Station, TX, which

Personally I prefer warm over cold, but the wife is very sensitive to
warm weather so northern america it would have to be. Having lived in
sweden for many years I'm no stranger to temperatures down to -20 C so
warm or cold is not a big deal for me.

Post by William Hyde
usually votes more republican than the state as a whole. Its twin town,
Bryan, has experienced something of a rebirth. When I was there it sported
cracked sidewalks and a downtown that was empty after 5 pm But it now has
good restaurants and uncracked sidewalks. Even College station now has
sidewalks, though there's nowhere to take them.
Though perhaps the sidewalks have attracted flocks of liberals. They do
that.

This is very troubling! =/

Post by William Hyde
Do take note, though, that if a state official harms you or your family, say
by running you over, shooting you, or so on, the compensation you can get is
strictly capped at a low figure. Best have really good insurance.

No worries there! Since I live in europe, I get close to nothing if the
government kills someone or commits some error, so I'm 100% sure that
anything I would get would be orders of magnitude bigger than in europe.

The government killed my mother and the compensation was around 8000
USD.

Post by William Hyde
Still, it's worth it so as to live without people who senselessly hold
opinions that differ from yours constantly visible to you.

Well, if I could find a good community with rational people and no
socialists, that would in deed be heaven! Living in europe I've been
surrounded by stupid socialists enough for 10 lifetimes! ;)

Post by William Hyde
OBSF, Gene Wolfe studied there, in the days when female students were not
allowed.
William Hyde

Scott Dorsey

2024-11-08 22:49:08 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Oregon is weird because it has a very wide mix of different locations with
very different cultures in the same state and while you might like the
far eastern part, you won't like the state politics as a whole (because
neither side does).

You would like Wyoming if you like long distances with nothing. It is
almost the opposite of Europe in terms of just being able to feel like
you are nowhere. I find that pleasant for a while, but not long-term.

You might like Alaska in that Alaska is filled with people who have an
intense interest in personal independence. Unfortunately it is also
filled with people who have problems who had thought that if they could
just get to Alaska that everything would be fine, and so they brought
their problems with them to Alaska.

I don't know the Dakotas at all really.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Lurndal

2024-11-08 23:46:18 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

California also has a very wide mix of regions with liberal and
conservative regions across the state. The liberal regions tend
to be coastal in regions with dense populations, while the
conservative regions tend to be inland and rural.

The coastal regions have better weather, but there is something
for everyone.

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-09 02:05:16 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Or enclaves of the wealthy in urban areas.

Post by Scott Lurndal
The coastal regions have better weather, but there is something
for everyone.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Scott Lurndal

2024-11-09 16:11:37 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Or enclaves of the wealthy in urban areas.

Orange county, perhaps.

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-09 17:17:24 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Or enclaves of the wealthy in urban areas.

Orange county, perhaps.

Just find the California House districts that have Republican
Representatives.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-09 17:45:38 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Or enclaves of the wealthy in urban areas.

Orange county, perhaps.

We have plenty of enclaves of the very well off in Northern California
as well. Some of these are in extra-urban areas where
the Wild fires are a risk. I live in a small enclave of the less well
off, in my studio apartment with me, myself and I. And a few thousand
book and some ephemera. Within a mile of my apartment there are
similar enclaves of poverty next to towering apartment building
where my whole stipend would not pay for a broom Closet but in which
the well-salaried will put out 3 grand/month for a modern studio.
My Studio was refurbised in the 1950s I believe and I have lived her
since 1974 so 50 years. Yes I voterd for rent control when the
people of San Francisco were presented with a ballot initiative.
Still I am paying about 5 times my move-in rent. The place
has had at least a dozen owners in that time.
And we have earthquakes, which are less destructive than tsunami
mostly because most are undectable.

bliss

2024-11-09 13:33:33 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

California also has a very wide mix of regions with liberal and
conservative regions across the state. The liberal regions tend
to be coastal in regions with dense populations, while the
conservative regions tend to be inland and rural.
The coastal regions have better weather, but there is something
for everyone.

Oh no... california sounds like a bad copy of sweden. I don't think I
would ever dare set my foot in that state! =/

2024-11-09 13:32:20 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different cultures
depending on the area you are in.

Post by Scott Dorsey
You would like Wyoming if you like long distances with nothing. It is
almost the opposite of Europe in terms of just being able to feel like
you are nowhere. I find that pleasant for a while, but not long-term.

Sounds excellent! Since I generally do not like people, being in the
middle of nowhere, with a dog or two sounds like heaven! Sadly it is not
going to fly with the wife since she wants culture, opera and all that
stuff. So I imagine that sadly, in the end, it would have to be 2-3 hours
by car from some kind of bigger city. =(

Post by Scott Dorsey
You might like Alaska in that Alaska is filled with people who have an
intense interest in personal independence. Unfortunately it is also
filled with people who have problems who had thought that if they could
just get to Alaska that everything would be fine, and so they brought
their problems with them to Alaska.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Post by Scott Dorsey
I don't know the Dakotas at all really.
--scott

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-09 14:54:47 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme

The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.

pt

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 17:03:57 UTC

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:54:47 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.

Actually, it's more of a "everybody gets a share of the profits from
our oil" program.

And its taxable federally. Even the checks sent to the kids.

The whole point of UBI is that the UBI itself is not taxed. Only
additional income is taxed.

Whether this is actually a good idea is a good question. But in 200
years, when most jobs are done by machines and positions filled by
humans are filled either by lottery (the losers -- rather, draftees --
serve) or the courts ("I sentence you to be City Manager for three
years") because nobody wants to work since most people can not for
lack of job availability.

But as long as we have more jobs than people to employ, UBI is
probably not ready for prime time.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-10 00:55:24 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:54:47 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.

Actually, it's more of a "everybody gets a share of the profits from
our oil" program.
And its taxable federally. Even the checks sent to the kids.

How does that work? The minimum income for Federal taxes is
$13,850. The checks don't come anywhere near that. Is it that
they family has to file jointly?

Post by Paul S Person
The whole point of UBI is that the UBI itself is not taxed. Only
additional income is taxed.
Whether this is actually a good idea is a good question. But in 200
years, when most jobs are done by machines and positions filled by
humans are filled either by lottery (the losers -- rather, draftees --
serve) or the courts ("I sentence you to be City Manager for three
years") because nobody wants to work since most people can not for
lack of job availability.
But as long as we have more jobs than people to employ, UBI is
probably not ready for prime time.

I"m actually fully in favor of UBI, but it seems to run
contrary to 'D's seemingly Objectivist philosophy.

ObSF: I first heard of the idea of a UBI in PJF's
"Riders of the Purple Wage".

pt

2024-11-10 10:31:08 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:54:47 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Post by Scott Dorsey
You would like Wyoming if you like long distances with nothing.Â It is
almost the opposite of Europe in terms of just being able to feel like
you are nowhere.Â I find that pleasant for a while, but not long-term.

Post by Scott Dorsey
You might like Alaska in that Alaska is filled with people who have an
intense interest in personal independence.Â Unfortunately it is also
filled with people who have problems who had thought that if they could
just get to Alaska that everything would be fine, and so they brought
their problems with them to Alaska.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.

Actually, it's more of a "everybody gets a share of the profits from
our oil" program.
And its taxable federally. Even the checks sent to the kids.

How does that work? The minimum income for Federal taxes is
$13,850. The checks don't come anywhere near that. Is it that
they family has to file jointly?

I"m actually fully in favor of UBI, but it seems to run
contrary to 'D's seemingly Objectivist philosophy.
ObSF: I first heard of the idea of a UBI in PJF's
"Riders of the Purple Wage".
pt

UBI is a dead idea and has been disproven scientifically _if_ you mean
_universal_ basic income. If you mean an optimization and more efficient
version of social security, it will most likely save a few bucks, but
overall work as badly as any socialist policy.

https://reason.com/2024/07/25/bad-news-for-universal-basic-income/ .

Paul S Person

2024-11-10 16:33:42 UTC

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 19:55:24 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:54:47 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.

Actually, it's more of a "everybody gets a share of the profits from
our oil" program.
And its taxable federally. Even the checks sent to the kids.

How does that work? The minimum income for Federal taxes is
$13,850. The checks don't come anywhere near that. Is it that
they family has to file jointly?

My experience was 20 years ago when I worked for the IRS. So the
answers then may not apply now. I might recommend consulting Pub 17,
which should contain at least a summary and a referral to something
more detailed if not the full details themselves.

Also, I worked very few cases, so any comments I make might, in
theory, identify one or the other, which would be a violation of
Federal law (release of confidential tax information).

I"m actually fully in favor of UBI, but it seems to run
contrary to 'D's seemingly Objectivist philosophy.
ObSF: I first heard of the idea of a UBI in PJF's
"Riders of the Purple Wage".

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-09 21:01:57 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different cultures
depending on the area you are in.

Sounds excellent! Since I generally do not like people, being in the middle
of nowhere, with a dog or two sounds like heaven! Sadly it is not going to
fly with the wife since she wants culture, opera and all that stuff. So I
imagine that sadly, in the end, it would have to be 2-3 hours by car from
some kind of bigger city. =(

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.
pt

It actually might not interfere at all, if Alaska takes my money without
my consent in the form of taxes. In that case, it could potentially be
return of my property. If I paid no taxes in alaska, then accepting that
government handout would be highly unethical, I agree with you there.

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-10 00:51:19 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Sounds excellent! Since I generally do not like people, being in the
middle of nowhere, with a dog or two sounds like heaven! Sadly it is
not going to fly with the wife since she wants culture, opera and all
that stuff. So I imagine that sadly, in the end, it would have to be
2-3 hours by car from some kind of bigger city. =(

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that
could work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.
pt

The state of Alaska has no sales or income taxes. The state does tax
some things (rental cars, hotels, etc), mostly to extract money
from tourists. Some towns do have a sales tax.

But those permanent fund checks come from the state of Alaska, to which
residents pay nothing.

pt

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-10 03:18:00 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different
cultures depending on the area you are in.

Sounds excellent! Since I generally do not like people, being in the
middle of nowhere, with a dog or two sounds like heaven! Sadly it is
not going to fly with the wife since she wants culture, opera and
all that stuff. So I imagine that sadly, in the end, it would have
to be 2-3 hours by car from some kind of bigger city. =(

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that
could work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.
pt

It actually might not interfere at all, if Alaska takes my money
without my consent in the form of taxes. In that case, it could
potentially be return of my property. If I paid no taxes in alaska,
then accepting that government handout would be highly unethical, I
agree with you there.

The state of Alaska has no sales or income taxes. The state does tax
some things (rental cars, hotels, etc), mostly to extract money
from tourists. Some towns do have a sales tax.
But those permanent fund checks come from the state of Alaska, to which
residents pay nothing.

If recipients are taking anyone's money it would be the oil companies'
money.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

2024-11-10 10:29:22 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
Idaho.
Or Montana.

Sounds like sweden! No one likes the politics and very different cultures
depending on the area you are in.

Alaska is on my list! I did find anchorageopera.org so maybe that could
work! ;)

Alaska, unfortunately for your politics, has a government that
interferes in the free market, with a Universal Basic Income
scheme
The state has a $50 billion Permanent Fund, and sends checks
to every resident each year. The amount varies by year,
$1200 - $3000 being typical.
pt

It actually might not interfere at all, if Alaska takes my money without my
consent in the form of taxes. In that case, it could potentially be return
of my property. If I paid no taxes in alaska, then accepting that
government handout would be highly unethical, I agree with you there.

The state of Alaska has no sales or income taxes. The state does tax
some things (rental cars, hotels, etc), mostly to extract money
from tourists. Some towns do have a sales tax.
But those permanent fund checks come from the state of Alaska, to which
residents pay nothing.
pt

When I do my ethical calculation I do not consider separate funds. I
consider two accounts, my accounts, and the account of the government. If
money flows from my account to the government it is theft. If money
returns, it is getting property back. If more money moves from the
government than what was stolen from me, I would be the thief, so that
would be unethical. So if I paid 0% tax, fees, vat, what ever, I could not
accept that money but would have to return it. On the other hand I suspect
there is plenty of federal taxes, so that would most likely give me plenty
of room to claw back my property without reaching unethical territory.

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 16:54:09 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.
I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Ah.
Idaho.
Or Montana.
(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

IIRC, there is a movement in Eastern Oregon to ... become part of
Idaho.

Back in the 70s (or 60s, or 80s), a mail-order firm had, on its order
blank, the question "Have you ever met someone from Wyomng?".

So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-09 17:20:55 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.
pt

If you have any democrat/socialist leanings, in all honestly, I cannot
recommend europe enough. I think you would be very happy with society in
Sweden, Norway or Finland.
I'm in the exact opposite position! I hate living in europe, and when I
retire, the plan it for me and my wife to move to rural, red US to the
most conservative and bible thumping place we can find! =)

Ah.
Idaho.
Or Montana.
(When our IRS call site adopted "team concept", we decided to divide
incoming calls among teams by SSN rather than State because, as one of
us put it, "I don't want to spend an entire day talking to Idaho". Of
course, that was in the days of Rev Butler and Aryan Nations. Current
conditions may be better. Or not, at least medically.)

IIRC, there is a movement in Eastern Oregon to ... become part of
Idaho.

Been around for decades.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

2024-11-09 21:03:47 UTC

Post by D
Thank you Paul, that confirms what I have so far been thinking about in
terms of places to move to. I have also heard good things about Wyoming,
South dakota, and someone, as strange as it may sound, also recommended
the far eastern parts of oregon. Not sure about that one, but that was one
recommendation as well.

IIRC, there is a movement in Eastern Oregon to ... become part of
Idaho.

Let's wish them luck! It is always inspiring when people are fighting
for a better life and more freedom! =)

Post by Paul S Person
Back in the 70s (or 60s, or 80s), a mail-order firm had, on its order
blank, the question "Have you ever met someone from Wyomng?".
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Does sound like it! =)

2024-11-09 21:04:58 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-10 01:00:26 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

For citizens who meet the other requirements for firearms possession,
yes. You don't even need a permit. I'm not sure about green card
holders.

pt

2024-11-10 10:32:02 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

For citizens who meet the other requirements for firearms possession,
yes. You don't even need a permit. I'm not sure about green card
holders.
pt

Hooray! =D Yet another dream that the US would make come true! It truly is
the land of the free compared with shitty old europe which I passionately
hate so much!

Scott Dorsey

2024-11-10 01:03:37 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-10 03:20:07 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

O_o I've driven across both Wyoming and Texas more than once. Wyoming
ain't "tiny".

And if Texas is "huge" what does that make Alaska?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Paul S Person

2024-11-10 16:40:50 UTC

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 19:20:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

O_o I've driven across both Wyoming and Texas more than once. Wyoming
ain't "tiny".

Not by the standards of, say, Rhode Island.

It is quite normal for the Great Plains.

Post by Dimensional Traveler
And if Texas is "huge" what does that make Alaska?

Big enough that Texas could be made the third-largest State by
dividing Alaska in two (if done evenly enough).

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-10 17:03:39 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 19:20:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

O_o I've driven across both Wyoming and Texas more than once. Wyoming
ain't "tiny".

Not by the standards of, say, Rhode Island.
It is quite normal for the Great Plains.

My apologies, for some reason I was thinking of Montana.

Post by Dimensional Traveler
And if Texas is "huge" what does that make Alaska?

Big enough that Texas could be made the third-largest State by
dividing Alaska in two (if done evenly enough).

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Chris Buckley

2024-11-10 17:45:33 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 19:20:07 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

O_o I've driven across both Wyoming and Texas more than once. Wyoming
ain't "tiny".

Not by the standards of, say, Rhode Island.
It is quite normal for the Great Plains.

My apologies, for some reason I was thinking of Montana.

But still, Wyoming is the 10th largest state, a bit less than twice
the median size. Not a tiny state (except in comparison to Alaska)!

Chris

2024-11-10 10:32:35 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
So if not having a lot of people around is a good thing, Wyoming would
probably work.

Do you think I would be allowed to wear a cowboy hat and walk around
with a gun in Wyoming? That would be a strong incentive!

Wyoming is tiny and Texas is huge and both will allow you to do these
things. Actually having cattle is no longer considered necessary to
wear the hat.
--scott

Excellent! Thank you for the confirmation! Does sound like a small
paradise on earth! =)

Chris Buckley

2024-11-08 18:53:38 UTC

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.

As opposed to the many billions that Biden funnelled to his billionaires
through the IRA, CHIP act and others?

You have to remember that we grow old. The status quo has changed. The
Democrats have been the party of the wealthy for the past 20 years and it
grows worse. Many more billionaires supported Biden in 2020 and Harris
this year than supported Trump. The growing discrepency is alarming. The
Democrats spent 60% more than the Republicans since Super Tuesday
(over 1.6 billion compared to under 1 billion (NPR)).

Chris

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-08 19:26:43 UTC

Post by Chris Buckley

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.

As opposed to the many billions that Biden funnelled to his billionaires
through the IRA, CHIP act and others?

You mean the programs to rebuild the infrastructure of the
USA and return manufacturing of critical components to the USA?
These benefit the workering class as well as the billionaires.
Some billionaires are too dumb to figure that out. One was elected
to the office of president and his comrades not all of whom are
billionaires are crazier and dumber than him.

Post by Chris Buckley
You have to remember that we grow old. The status quo has changed. The
Democrats have been the party of the wealthy for the past 20 years and it
grows worse. Many more billionaires supported Biden in 2020 and Harris
this year than supported Trump. The growing discrepency is alarming. The
Democrats spent 60% more than the Republicans since Super Tuesday
(over 1.6 billion compared to under 1 billion (NPR)).
Chris

The fromer Republican party and I want to call it the Reb-publican
party cause they are animated by racism as are most of
the measures to suppress voting pretended to be the the party of
the working citizens but they ain't. Bunch of Union-busting
kleptocrats. But the real name of the party which elected Trump is
MAGA. And #47 said so on election night.

And yet we have American citizens who did not know that
Biden had dropped out and did not know that Harris and Walz were
the candidates of the Democratic party. As shown by search engines
queried on Election Day.

Americans prefer games to the duties of citizenship,
one of which is to stay well informed as to political matters.

bliss

Titus G

2024-11-09 07:23:56 UTC

snip

    The fromer Republican party and I want to call it the Reb-publican
party cause they are animated by racism as are most of
the measures to suppress voting pretended to be the the party of
the working citizens but they ain't. Bunch of Union-busting
kleptocrats. But the real name of the party which elected Trump is
MAGA. And #47 said so on election night.
    And yet we have American citizens who did not know that
Biden had dropped out and did not know that Harris and Walz were
the candidates of the Democratic party. As shown by search engines
queried on Election Day.
    Americans prefer games to the duties of citizenship,
one of which is to stay well informed as to political matters.
    bliss

I don't mind off topic discussions here but some do as the following
quotations demonstrate.

"So how is this pertinent to Science Fiction and Fantasy, aka
Speculative Fiction ?" Lynn
(AGW. LNG Worse Than Coal. October 2024)

"It is not pertinent to this Newsgroup at all but that is one of
the characteristics of Trolls spreading disinformation at the behest
of either their own or other causes that they do not care a whit for
the nature of the group in or its interests. They just have to get
the lies out." bliss
(AGW. LNG Worse Than Coal. October 2024)

Scott Dorsey

2024-11-08 22:44:31 UTC

The Democrats are the party of the wealthy, yes. But the Republicans are
also the party of the wealthy, in spite of the current grassroots support.
Compare the funding for Trump's first campaign, which was greatly supported
by small donors, with the funding for this one, which was mostly supported
by larger donations.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Lurndal

2024-11-08 23:43:37 UTC

The Democrats are the party of the wealthy, yes.

I would say that they're the party of the well-educated, who
by that virtue, often will be wealthier than average.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the majority of
Fortune 500 CEOs claim to be republican and/or support
conservative causes.

Post by Scott Dorsey
But the Republicans are
also the party of the wealthy, in spite of the current grassroots support.
Compare the funding for Trump's first campaign, which was greatly supported
by small donors, with the funding for this one, which was mostly supported
by larger donations.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Chris Buckley

2024-11-09 15:49:35 UTC

I agree that the wealthy have an outsized impact on both major parties. It's
unfortunate and it becomes even more of a problem if it's an unbalanced
impact. I believe in checks and balances but we're losing the ability of
the two parties to compete financially.

Trump's small donors have indeed decreased over his campaigns. Harris did
very well this year with small donors; her percentage small donors was higher
than Obama's, Clinton's, Biden's and Trumps 2024's, though of course much
lower than Trump 2016's and even Trump 2020's.

But her not-small-donors amount still was well over twice that of Trump's
not-small-donors this year. Money talks as they say, and Democrats
have much more election money than Republicans.

Chris

Dimensional Traveler

2024-11-09 17:19:41 UTC

Post by Chris Buckley

I agree that the wealthy have an outsized impact on both major parties. It's
unfortunate and it becomes even more of a problem if it's an unbalanced
impact. I believe in checks and balances but we're losing the ability of
the two parties to compete financially.
Trump's small donors have indeed decreased over his campaigns. Harris did
very well this year with small donors; her percentage small donors was higher
than Obama's, Clinton's, Biden's and Trumps 2024's, though of course much
lower than Trump 2016's and even Trump 2020's.
But her not-small-donors amount still was well over twice that of Trump's
not-small-donors this year. Money talks as they say, and Democrats
have much more election money than Republicans.

And don't spend as much of it on attorneys for their own personal trials....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Titus G

2024-11-09 07:23:43 UTC

Post by Chris Buckley

My wife and I have had serious discussions about moving.
I have the possibility to get an EU citizenship, I
grew up as an expatriate, and we both travel, so the idea
isn't as alien as it would be to some. We're both retired,
and have sufficient funds to be accepted in many countries.
For the moment, we're sitting tight. Trump only got a 3%
margin - there are plenty of non-Trumpers left in the
country.
Personally, I concur with Bernie Sanders that the Democrats
abandoned supporting working class interests, and Trump said
all the right things to pick that demographic up. I'm pretty
doubtful that he'll actually deliver for that group. He's
a lame duck, unconstrained by re-election. He will strip mine
the country to benefit billionaires.

As opposed to the many billions that Biden funnelled to his billionaires
through the IRA, CHIP act and others?

Add the billions to the military industrial complex for the Democrats
proxy war against Russia.
Elon Musk has said that Trump will release Epstein's client list. The
videos of Clinton, Gates et al will remain under lock and key in the US
as well as in Israel. There must be some billionaire Republicans on film
also, mustn't there?

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-07 16:11:49 UTC

Well they haven't come for me yet. However I twisted my ankle on
October 4 then on November 1 I walked too far and ended up in a
a fresh world of pain from the ankle. It is hard for me to read and
keep my foot elevated on an ice pack. I tend to fall asleep that
is and I have tp limit my time at the computer and doing chores.

I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

bliss

Paul S Person

2024-11-07 16:45:16 UTC

On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.

As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.

But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-07 17:43:15 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

So do I.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.

Does the fish know what the water is that his life depends up and
which upholds him.
If they knew they lived in Darkness they would try to
light the area around them but they like the fish swim in ignorance
of the medium that supports them and oppresses others.

Post by Paul S Person
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

bliss

Paul S Person

2024-11-08 16:35:01 UTC

On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 09:43:15 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

So do I.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.

Ever the Optimist.

Have you considered the possibility that they /like/ living in
darkness and fear? And want more of it?

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

bliss

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-07 22:11:20 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

Paul S Person

2024-11-08 16:40:17 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.

And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.

One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-08 21:10:16 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.
And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.
One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

Let' see! It will be a very interesting 4 years for sure! I'm super
excited about his proposed 24h ukraine fix. Personally I think he has
underestimated the complexity of the situation, but regardless, will be
interesting to see his attempt.

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-09 02:00:52 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.
And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.
One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

I don't understand how anyone thinks he could actually do that. His
proposal, as I understand it, is basically to order Ukraine to
surrender the land, people, and treasure that Putin has already
stolen, disarm, and disavow ever joining NATO.

Russia has to do nothing.

Ukraine, and Europe, quite properly, would say 'Fuck that shit',
and continue the fight without US aid. It would be hard, and
expensive, but Russia is starting to run out of men and material,
despite North Korean aid.

Trump doesn't have sufficient leverage to stop the war.

pt

2024-11-09 13:35:21 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Â Â Â Â Well they haven't come for me yet.Â However I twisted my ankle on
October 4 then on November 1 I walked too far and ended up in a
a fresh world of pain from the ankle. It is hard for me to read and
keep my foot elevated on an ice pack. I tend to fall asleep that
is and I have tp limit my time at the computer and doing chores.

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

Â Â Â Â I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

Â Â Â Â But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.
And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.
One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

Let' see! It will be a very interesting 4 years for sure! I'm super excited
about his proposed 24h ukraine fix. Personally I think he has
underestimated the complexity of the situation, but regardless, will be
interesting to see his attempt.

I don't understand how anyone thinks he could actually do that. His
proposal, as I understand it, is basically to order Ukraine to
surrender the land, people, and treasure that Putin has already
stolen, disarm, and disavow ever joining NATO.
Russia has to do nothing.
Ukraine, and Europe, quite properly, would say 'Fuck that shit',
and continue the fight without US aid. It would be hard, and
expensive, but Russia is starting to run out of men and material,
despite North Korean aid.
Trump doesn't have sufficient leverage to stop the war.
pt

That is exactly my point. Trump of course knows this, which means that he
would not even try because it would make him look bad. I think he'd rather
just drop the subject and pretend it never was a subject in the first
place.

But let's see! The immortal leader of the white race often surprises us
positively, so maybe he will in this case as well! =)

Paul S Person

2024-11-09 17:10:26 UTC

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 21:00:52 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.
And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.
One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

I don't understand how anyone thinks he could actually do that. His
proposal, as I understand it, is basically to order Ukraine to
surrender the land, people, and treasure that Putin has already
stolen, disarm, and disavow ever joining NATO.
Russia has to do nothing.
Ukraine, and Europe, quite properly, would say 'Fuck that shit',
and continue the fight without US aid. It would be hard, and
expensive, but Russia is starting to run out of men and material,
despite North Korean aid.
Trump doesn't have sufficient leverage to stop the war.

While I agree with you that he can't stop the war that way, a couple
of well-placed nukes would pretty much take care of the problem. So I
would say he /could/ do it, although the price might be rather high.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-10 01:07:59 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 21:00:52 -0500, Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 08:11:49 -0800, Bobbie Sellers

Here's hoping your ankle heals soon.

I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.

They don't know what darkness and fear is.
As Trump himself has said, they won't need to vote for him again, if
only because of the term limit.
But voting for him was their only value to him. And we know how Trump
treats those he does not need.

But the thought police have not come for me yet.

Well, now the healing and rebuilding of the nation can start! =)

As I noted in 2016 (not here but online elsewhere), at least with
Trump we would get many legal questions answered. And so we have. No
doubt this will continue.
And I suppose it is possible that, freed from any obligation to his
supporters since he cannot run again, he /might/ try healing and
rebuilding. As opposed to dividing and destroying.
One indicator might be if he actually pardons the Jan 6 folks. After
all, not only can they do nothing for him in the future even with
their right to vote restored, they failed in 2020. Why should he be
grateful to failure?

I don't understand how anyone thinks he could actually do that. His
proposal, as I understand it, is basically to order Ukraine to
surrender the land, people, and treasure that Putin has already
stolen, disarm, and disavow ever joining NATO.
Russia has to do nothing.
Ukraine, and Europe, quite properly, would say 'Fuck that shit',
and continue the fight without US aid. It would be hard, and
expensive, but Russia is starting to run out of men and material,
despite North Korean aid.
Trump doesn't have sufficient leverage to stop the war.

I'm instantly reminded of this clip from "The Good Place". BTW: I
*highly* recommend the show to everyone here.

Titus G

2024-11-10 04:31:52 UTC

On 10/11/24 14:07, Cryptoengineer wrote:
snip

Post by Cryptoengineer
I'm instantly reminded of this clip from "The Good Place". BTW: I
*highly* recommend the show to everyone here.
http://youtu.be/EKWW6oFQDZY

I loved the bit about not eating orange's clothes.

2024-11-07 22:08:33 UTC

Well they haven't come for me yet. However I twisted my ankle on
October 4 then on November 1 I walked too far and ended up in a
a fresh world of pain from the ankle. It is hard for me to read and
keep my foot elevated on an ice pack. I tend to fall asleep that
is and I have tp limit my time at the computer and doing chores.
I am tired of responding to bigots of many persuasion who
rejoice in the appointment of a monarchial ruler by the people
who live in darkness of hate and fear.
But the thought police have not come for me yet.
bliss

Are you mad? Cackles lost and Trump won! All will be good and the people
will finally be free! =) And I'm proud to be an american! =)

Paul S Person

2024-11-07 16:38:42 UTC

On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 23:34:04 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

I'm not sure why.

But I do know one newgroup that went from very active to crickets very
quickly when everybody started killfiling everybody they didn't like.

It is possible that we are in the same Usenet Newsgroup death-spiral.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-07 22:10:06 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 23:34:04 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

I'm not sure why.
But I do know one newgroup that went from very active to crickets very
quickly when everybody started killfiling everybody they didn't like.
It is possible that we are in the same Usenet Newsgroup death-spiral.

I still see your posts, do you see my posts?

Paul S Person

2024-11-08 16:41:05 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 23:34:04 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

I'm not sure why.
But I do know one newgroup that went from very active to crickets very
quickly when everybody started killfiling everybody they didn't like.
It is possible that we are in the same Usenet Newsgroup death-spiral.

I still see your posts, do you see my posts?

Yes.

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

2024-11-08 21:11:02 UTC

Post by Paul S Person
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 23:34:04 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

I'm not sure why.
But I do know one newgroup that went from very active to crickets very
quickly when everybody started killfiling everybody they didn't like.
It is possible that we are in the same Usenet Newsgroup death-spiral.

I still see your posts, do you see my posts?

Yes.

Excellent... despite enormous differences of opinion, communication still
exists. This is a positive sign for the future of the planet!

2024-11-07 22:06:53 UTC

People are just tired after all the celebrations! The americans just took
their country back from the socialists, so naturally lots of parties!

Lynn McGuire

2024-11-08 02:18:10 UTC

"Ok, so we won, but when do we start building the camps? Should I get
started now, will I get an email from Trump, and then I start? I've
never been a fascist before, I don't know how this works."
https://x.com/CarpeDonktum/status/1854365852822315092

Hat tip to:
https://areaocho.com/my-sides/

Lynn

Bobbie Sellers

2024-11-08 05:48:02 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire

Well I don't have anything to do with anti-Social Media but
if he asks again, tell him he will be informed by Authority as to
the time to execute the plans he will be ordered to complete
. At least that is what he will hear but he may have
to lock up a lot of construction workers so build before you
tell them it is for them.

Not that I have ever been a Fascist but I read
a lot and that is pretty much how they do it.

bliss

Lynn McGuire

2024-11-08 20:31:58 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire

https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2024/11/ok-so-we-won-but-when-do-we-start.html

Lynn

Charles Packer

2024-11-08 08:50:47 UTC

The silence is notable because of the absence of quadibloc.
He would have weighed in about events by now. But he hasn't
posted since Oct 16, after posting seven times in September.

James Nicoll

2024-11-08 13:18:29 UTC

Post by Charles Packer

The silence is notable because of the absence of quadibloc.
He would have weighed in about events by now. But he hasn't
posted since Oct 16, after posting seven times in September.

I don't see an obit in the Edmonton Journal but that could just mean
nobody cared to arrange one.

(There is an obit for a John Savard who died 2011)

Cryptoengineer

2024-11-08 16:12:50 UTC

Post by Charles Packer

The silence is notable because of the absence of quadibloc.
He would have weighed in about events by now. But he hasn't
posted since Oct 16, after posting seven times in September.

I don't see an obit in the Edmonton Journal but that could just mean
nobody cared to arrange one.
(There is an obit for a John Savard who died 2011)

One of the sadder parts about participating in the
dying-embers phase of Usenet is how so many people
go silent unnoticed, leaving us with no indication
whether they've passed on, or gone elsewhere.

pt

James Nicoll

2024-11-08 17:06:48 UTC