American War a dystopic novel

[Bobbie Sellers]

I read this in May of 2017
"American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II. No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
The Big Bay* is in Central California. I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded. Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina. Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.

The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in January, but it never snows. Alaska is a Neutral
State
` The author is one Omar El Akkad.

The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted. Florida is gone.
A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on. Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.

It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!

bliss

[James Nicoll]

Do they mention if Florida is gone?

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
"American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II. No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
The Big Bay* is in Central California. I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded. Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina. Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in January, but it never snows. Alaska is a Neutral
State
` The author is one Omar El Akkad.
The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted. Florida is gone.
A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on. Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
bliss
--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by James Nicoll
Do they mention if Florida is gone?

The novel has a map as I recall.

Post by James Nicoll

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
"American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II. No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
The Big Bay* is in Central California. I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded. Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina. Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in January, but it never snows. Alaska is a Neutral
State
` The author is one Omar El Akkad.
The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted. Florida is gone.
A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on. Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
bliss
--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

bliss

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by James Nicoll
Do they mention if Florida is gone?

The novel has a map as I recall.

*whoosh*

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
 "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
    The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
    A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
    A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
    The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
    The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
    A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
    It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
    bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level. Is
that underwater ?

Lynn

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

bliss

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

There's rolling hills in Hernando county as well...

The description puts me in the mind of a certain Costner movie...

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

There's rolling hills in Hernando county as well...
The description puts me in the mind of a certain Costner movie...

Well in this novel there is plenty of land but a lot of
productive land has been lost with the loss of the Southern mid-west.
a great big gulf where New Orleans used to be shortens the Mississippi
and some of its tributary rivers run right into that gulf.

The old USA is broken into self-interested small nations.
Except for the West Coast which has been reclaimed by Mexico. The
author may have taken some liberties in disregarding the elevations
of certain portions of the nation but it was a good read at the time.

And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and
active volcanoes and like rising water their is no real solution
except to get out of its way. Then we toss in the wild fires and
erratic weather and we still have too many people wanting to live
here.
bliss

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

There's rolling hills in Hernando county as well...
The description puts me in the mind of a certain Costner movie...

Well in this novel there is plenty of land but a lot of
productive land has been lost with the loss of the Southern mid-west.
a great big gulf where New Orleans used to be shortens the Mississippi
and some of its tributary rivers run right into that gulf.
The old USA is broken into self-interested small nations.
Except for the West Coast which has been reclaimed by Mexico. The
author may have taken some liberties in disregarding the elevations
of certain portions of the nation but it was a good read at the time.
And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.

Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

[Michael Ikeda]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's
coming to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is
the XKCD "Time" sequence.

Paolo Bacigalupi's Shipbreaker series is set in a world where large
areas of the Gulf Coast have been flooded.

Kim Stanley Robinson's "New York 2140" is set in a NYC that is
largely flooded.

[James Nicoll]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the

Central Valley

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

There's rolling hills in Hernando county as well...
The description puts me in the mind of a certain Costner movie...

Well in this novel there is plenty of land but a lot of
productive land has been lost with the loss of the Southern mid-west.
a great big gulf where New Orleans used to be shortens the Mississippi
and some of its tributary rivers run right into that gulf.
The old USA is broken into self-interested small nations.
Except for the West Coast which has been reclaimed by Mexico. The
author may have taken some liberties in disregarding the elevations
of certain portions of the nation but it was a good read at the time.
And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

The backstory of Davy has nuclear war, plague, and enough sea level
rise to turn New England into an island. That requires more water than
appears to be available.

A Fond Farewell to Dying turned India into an island, which requires
at least 200 metres of sea level rise. That submerges a lot of easter
NA, and bisects Australia as well. Not to mention it would be possible
to canoe much of the Silk Road.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On 8/30/24 18:49, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: >> And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Let's table that point. On the other hand: Venice.

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

John Wyndham, _The Kraken Wakes_ (sea people are angry)

Stephen Baxter, _Flood_, _Ark_ (similar)

J. G. Ballard, _The Drowned World_ (1962)

Richard Jefferies, _After London_ (1885)

Ken McLeod, _The Cassini Division_, I think contains
a scene, which certainly is in something, of flying
above London and observing a line of little points
sticking just above the water level. This is the top
of the Thames Flood Barrier.
<https://historicengland.org.uk/services-skills/education/educational-images/thames-flood-barrier-woolwich-10386>

I think the sea had risen in the film of
_Johnny Mnemonic_. It definitely had in
Stephen Spielberg's _A.I._. And on a lesser
scale in _Evan Almighty_.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On 8/30/24 18:49, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: >> And is pretty hard
science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Let's table that point.  On the other hand: Venice.

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

John Wyndham, _The Kraken Wakes_ (sea people are angry)
Stephen Baxter, _Flood_, _Ark_ (similar)
J. G. Ballard, _The Drowned World_ (1962)
Richard Jefferies, _After London_ (1885)
Ken McLeod, _The Cassini Division_, I think contains
a scene, which certainly is in something, of flying
above London and observing a line of little points
sticking just above the water level.  This is the top
of the Thames Flood Barrier.
<https://historicengland.org.uk/services-skills/education/educational-images/thames-flood-barrier-woolwich-10386>
I think the sea had risen in the film of
_Johnny Mnemonic_.  It definitely had in
Stephen Spielberg's _A.I._. And on a lesser
scale in _Evan Almighty_.

The Great Bay: Chronicles of the Collapse by Dale Pendell
Pendell is not satisfied with rising water only but predicts
plagues as well. This goes into the distant future with
barely a hope for civilization of a sort to continue.
Evacuees from Los Angeles head North and in Northern California
once more the Sacramento-San Joaquin valleys are flooded which
result in the Great Bay. Communities of scholar-mechanics hang
on for a long time as the flood continues taking out San Francisco
eventually and in the long years covering the site with a deep
layer of sedimentation.
But this only covers the West Coast of North America.
We have no idea what is going on elsewhere apart from
notable disasters.
I do not know how long ago I read this as my older files
were lost recently. I hope to get up to more current reading
in the near future but...

bliss

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On 8/30/24 18:49, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: >> And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Let's table that point.  On the other hand: Venice.

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

John Wyndham, _The Kraken Wakes_ (sea people are angry)
Stephen Baxter, _Flood_, _Ark_ (similar)

I seem to recall that the Gulf of Mexico went way up the Mississippi in WJW's
_The Rift_. But, that might have been due to an earthquake rather than melt.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Michael F. Stemper

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On 8/30/24 18:49, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: >> And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Let's table that point.  On the other hand: Venice.

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

John Wyndham, _The Kraken Wakes_ (sea people are angry)
Stephen Baxter, _Flood_, _Ark_ (similar)

I seem to recall that the Gulf of Mexico went way up the Mississippi in WJW's
_The Rift_. But, that might have been due to an earthquake rather than melt.

Coould always be a consequence of Mexican nuclear bombs that were
dropped on New Orleans.
--scott

[Kevrob]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

On 8/30/24 18:49, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: >> And is pretty hard
science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

Let's table that point.  On the other hand: Venice.

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Not sure this one would be for me, sounds a bit too bleak.
Trying to think of other SF examples of sea rise, but all that's coming
to mind (other than the sinking of Atlantis) right now is the XKCD "Time"
sequence.

John Wyndham, _The Kraken Wakes_ (sea people are angry)
Stephen Baxter, _Flood_, _Ark_ (similar)
J. G. Ballard, _The Drowned World_ (1962)
Richard Jefferies, _After London_ (1885)
Ken McLeod, _The Cassini Division_, I think contains
a scene, which certainly is in something, of flying
above London and observing a line of little points
sticking just above the water level.  This is the top
of the Thames Flood Barrier.
<https://historicengland.org.uk/services-skills/education/educational-
images/thames-flood-barrier-woolwich-10386>
I think the sea had risen in the film of
_Johnny Mnemonic_.  It definitely had in
Stephen Spielberg's _A.I._. And on a lesser
scale in _Evan Almighty_

I remember Jack Kirby's take on Earth: After Disaster -
"Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth."

The Great Lakes will have merged and Hudson's Bay gets surrounded by land.

https://www.comics.org/issue/25510/cover/4/?

per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Kamandi notes that while his publisher asked the King to cook
up something reminiscent of The Planet of the Apes, Jack had
unsold ideas from as early as the mid-50s in his files which
he reworked into a new feature. And one he did sell.

From ALARMING TALES #1 1957: "The Last Enemy"

https://marswillsendnomore.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/alarming-tales-1-the-last-enemy-donnegans-daffy-chair/

https://readallcomics.com/alarming-tales-1/

Harvey was still in business doing Casper and Richie Rich.
I don't think they sued.
--
Kevin R



.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Kevrob
I remember Jack Kirby's take on Earth: After Disaster -
"Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth."
The Great Lakes will have merged and Hudson's Bay gets surrounded by land.

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

I did look it up.
If all ice melted, the Great Lakes would not be affected. Sea level
would rise about 230 feet, but Lake Ontario is at 246 feet, and is
the lowest.

IMHO, the "simpliest" way to make the Great Lakes one body of water
requires a big uplift downstream on the St. Lawrence river. There will
also would have to be lesser uplifts in Illinois (and possibly Ohio) to
include Lake Superior in the Great Inland Sea.

[William Hyde]

Post by Kevrob
I remember Jack Kirby's take on Earth: After Disaster -
"Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth."
The Great Lakes will have merged and Hudson's Bay gets surrounded by land.

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

The other lakes are all about 100m above Ontario, with Superior the
highest by a few meters.

To join them all sea level would have to rise by the equivalent of
melting three and a half to four times as much ice as exists on earth.
So you need massive subsidence in which case there's no point in
worrying about survivors.


William Hyde

[The Horny Goat]

Post by William Hyde

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

The other lakes are all about 100m above Ontario, with Superior the
highest by a few meters.
To join them all sea level would have to rise by the equivalent of
melting three and a half to four times as much ice as exists on earth.
So you need massive subsidence in which case there's no point in
worrying about survivors.

Let's face it that would mean one helluva lot of hydroelectric
potential - even putting turbines under Niagara Falls (which is less
than 200' high) could generate a lot of power.

[Tony Nance]

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by William Hyde

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

The other lakes are all about 100m above Ontario, with Superior the
highest by a few meters.
To join them all sea level would have to rise by the equivalent of
melting three and a half to four times as much ice as exists on earth.
So you need massive subsidence in which case there's no point in
worrying about survivors.

Let's face it that would mean one helluva lot of hydroelectric
potential - even putting turbines under Niagara Falls (which is less
than 200' high) could generate a lot of power.

Not just "could" ... it actually does!
Canada side:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Adam_Beck_Hydroelectric_Generating_Stations

US side:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses_Niagara_Power_Plant

We toured the Canada plant just last summer - super interesting.
Tony

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Tony Nance
We toured the Canada plant just last summer - super interesting.

I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.
--scott

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Tony Nance
We toured the Canada plant just last summer - super interesting.

I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."

Just one possible excuse for the change.

"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.

Ah! The 50's!

Jungle Gymns, aka "monkey bars"! Over cement!
Wading pools with no special mod to the drains!
Risks everywhere a kid turned!

And most of us made it out of the 50's just fine.

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Almost like they expect people to have common sense and a sense of
self-preservation! Well! The joke's on them!

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 16:40:11 -0700, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by The Horny Goat
To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Almost like they expect people to have common sense and a sense of
self-preservation! Well! The joke's on them!

Well generally places where one could kill oneself rather
spectacularly TEND to be better guarded (either by guards or a
barrier) better than that.

No question I would recommend the tunnels under Niagara Falls (which
if memory serves were built in the 1930s) are worth one's while if
visiting there. Certainly much more interesting than the cheesy gift
shops you get all around Niagara Falls (and worse than all those shops
at Disneyworld)

[Paul S Person]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

[Don_from_AZ]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

"Think of it as evolution in action!"

That's a quote, but I can'st remember from where (or who).
-Don-

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Don_from_AZ

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

"Think of it as evolution in action!"
That's a quote, but I can'st remember from where (or who).

A Niven collaboration involving an arcology IIRC.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Don_from_AZ

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

"Think of it as evolution in action!"
That's a quote, but I can'st remember from where (or who).

A Niven collaboration involving an arcology IIRC.

In which case, it was _Oath of Fealty_ (by Niven and Pournelle).

[Paul S Person]

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 20:27:26 -0700, Don_from_AZ

Post by Don_from_AZ

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:31:03 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.

"But the kids are much less likely to run into the equipment and get
hurt."
Just one possible excuse for the change.
"Makes sabotage harder" would be another.
Ah! The 50's!

To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

"Think of it as evolution in action!"
That's a quote, but I can'st remember from where (or who).

Yes, I guess that /would/ qualify for a Darwin Award.

[The Horny Goat]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 08:33:35 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Don_from_AZ

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

"Think of it as evolution in action!"
That's a quote, but I can'st remember from where (or who).

Yes, I guess that /would/ qualify for a Darwin Award.

Needless to say the one security guard who was there that day was NOT
forthcoming when asked 'how many suicides have taken place here'!

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 08:47:20 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

I walked up to the railing (about 15' from the Falls) and was amazed
they let me get that close. It's a VERY strange feeling not at all
like the fences and flower pots along the Niagara River Parkway.

(I just looked at Google Maps and was surprised to find that on the
road map, though the Niagara river was well marked, the actual
location of the falls was not - good thing I remembered Goat Island!)

[James Nicoll]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 08:47:20 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person

Post by The Horny Goat
To me the most amazing thing about the Falls are the tunnels under the
Falls on the Canadian side. There's even a hallway (roughly 15' x 15'
in size) where there's only a small standard railing preventing you
from running out into the midst of the Falls (which would obviously be
fatal) and no guards.

Well, I suppose that's one way to weed out the more daring children.

I walked up to the railing (about 15' from the Falls) and was amazed
they let me get that close. It's a VERY strange feeling not at all
like the fences and flower pots along the Niagara River Parkway.
(I just looked at Google Maps and was surprised to find that on the
road map, though the Niagara river was well marked, the actual
location of the falls was not - good thing I remembered Goat Island!)

People have been lost over the falls but the ones I remember did it
the obvious way, by following the river over the edge. There was a
famous case in 1960 involving siblings Roger and Deanne Woodward,
whose rent-a-boat guide dumped them all into swift currents above the
falls Deanne got fished out just before she went over the edge, the
guide went over and was killed, and Roger went over but survived.

[Tony Nance]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Tony Nance
We toured the Canada plant just last summer - super interesting.

I have to admit that I was disappointed in the tour. When I was a kid I
visited the plant on the American side and they let you walk down on the
actual floor and see operating equipment... they had one generator torn
down and you could see how the brushes were honeycombed to reduce skin
effect. (at 60 Hz!) It was very, very cool. Forty years later the
American side was totally locked down and the Canadian plant had a tour
where you could look through a window and talk to someone who couldn't
answer any questions.
--scott

That aspect was indeed still in place, and is as silly as it sounds. But
the first floor had all kinds of equipment and info and stuff. It was
also cool to elevator down to the river/ground level, walk through a
huge tunnel, and come out at the bottom near the falls.

Tony

[The Horny Goat]

Post by Tony Nance

Post by The Horny Goat

Post by William Hyde
To join them all sea level would have to rise by the equivalent of
melting three and a half to four times as much ice as exists on earth.
So you need massive subsidence in which case there's no point in
worrying about survivors.

Let's face it that would mean one helluva lot of hydroelectric
potential - even putting turbines under Niagara Falls (which is less
than 200' high) could generate a lot of power.

Not just "could" ... it actually does!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Adam_Beck_Hydroelectric_Generating_Stations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses_Niagara_Power_Plant
We toured the Canada plant just last summer - super interesting.

Haven't been anywhere near the Falls in years - my inlaws are in
Burlington, ON (which is directly W of the Falls on the extreme
western tip of Lake Ontario) and I haven't been there in years. While
we're regularly in touch by social media I haven't seen them in person
since my wife's funeral 2 1/2 years ago. Obviously not a great time.

(Our families are scattered - my second daughter who lives in England
had Christmas with them last year while my wife had/has a cousin whose
family of 5 now grown kids is in Atlanta, GA)

[The Horny Goat]

Post by Kevrob
I remember Jack Kirby's take on Earth: After Disaster -
"Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth."
The Great Lakes will have merged and Hudson's Bay gets surrounded by land.

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Kevrob
I remember Jack Kirby's take on Earth: After Disaster -
"Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth."
The Great Lakes will have merged and Hudson's Bay gets surrounded by land.

I'm going to have to look that one up since if Erie and Ontario merge
that's a major event (not to mention Superior which is 150-200 meters
further above see level) since those two are connected by Niagara
Falls (which is about a 75 meter difference between top and bottom)

I did look it up.

If all ice melted, the Great Lakes would not be affected. Sea level
would rise about 230 feet, but Lake Ontario is at 246 feet, and is
the lowest.

pt

[William Hyde]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?
Lynn

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

There's rolling hills in Hernando county as well...
The description puts me in the mind of a certain Costner movie...

Well in this novel there is plenty of land but a lot of
productive land has been lost with the loss of the Southern mid-west.
a great big gulf where New Orleans used to be shortens the Mississippi
and some of its tributary rivers run right into that gulf.
The old USA is broken into self-interested small nations.
Except for the West Coast which has been reclaimed by Mexico. The
author may have taken some liberties in disregarding the elevations
of certain portions of the nation but it was a good read at the time.
And is pretty hard science that there is no way to defend the land
from the rising water. Exactly how fast it will happen is the main
dispute. I live in California where we have earthquakes and

The Dutch might dispute that..

The Dutch were consulted, in the case of Miami. No chance, they said,
as the underlying rock is too porous (karst limestone).

Mind you, perhaps the nation that lifted Chicago up a meter a century
and a half ago could put a layer of impermeable plastic under Miami.
Should only cost a trillion or so.

Washington, DC, on the other hand, sits on metamorphic rock and could
thus be protected.


William Hyde

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?

Maybe an island or washed away or the underlying geological have
collapsed. but the Florida peninsula is gone on the map.

Could have been a routine consequence of nuclear weapons from the Texas Free
State.
--scott

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Lynn McGuire

    The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
    A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
    It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
    bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level. Is
that underwater ?

No, it's an island.

[William Hyde]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?

Maximum elevation 266, minimum 7, average 118.

I believe we discussed this some time ago. Even if all the ice sheets
go, together with the geoid's adjustment to the lack of the Antarctic
ice sheet's gravity, a fragment of Florida would still exist. Looks
like Tallahassee would survive as a couple of small islands. Which seems
to be what the novel says.

Such melting will not occur by 2075, but we allow far greater
distortions of science for a good story.

Akkad is not principally an SF writer.

William Hyde

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?

Maximum elevation 266, minimum 7, average 118.
I believe we discussed  this some time ago.  Even if all the ice sheets
go, together with the geoid's adjustment to the lack of  the Antarctic
ice sheet's gravity, a fragment of Florida would still exist.  Looks
like Tallahassee would survive as a couple of small islands. Which seems
to be what the novel says.
Such melting will not occur by 2075, but we allow far greater
distortions of science for a good story.
Akkad is not principally an SF writer.

Warm water rises.

[William Hyde]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by William Hyde

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
  "American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II.  No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.
     The Big Bay* is in Central California.  I.e. the Central Valley
and San Joaquin Valley are flooded.  Only the high points of
the San Francisco Bay Area remain above water.
     A Free Southern State exists with a quarantine zone in South
Carolina.  Florida is gone. New Orleans is gone.
     A Mexican Protectorate extends past San Francisco and takes
up the Southern-Most tier of Western states.
     The narrator of the tale of the female protagonist lives in
New Anchorage, Alaska where they might see frost on the
windows in  January, but it never snows.  Alaska is a Neutral
State
`    The author is one Omar El Akkad.
     The ACW II takes place from 2074-2095 caused by the
Southern states unwillingness to abide by the ban on
Fossil Fuels finally enacted.  Florida is gone.
     A girl's father is murdered and a thirst for revenge
grows within her as the War goes on.  Horrendous acts
are done on each side and the protagonist does the
final horrendous act of the War, which kills the last
of her relatives but not intentionally.
     It could be sub-titled Fall of the American Empire!
     bliss

Tallahassee, Florida (the panhandle) is 203 feet above sea level.  Is
that underwater ?

Maximum elevation 266, minimum 7, average 118.
I believe we discussed  this some time ago.  Even if all the ice
sheets go, together with the geoid's adjustment to the lack of  the
Antarctic ice sheet's gravity, a fragment of Florida would still
exist.  Looks like Tallahassee would survive as a couple of small
islands. Which seems to be what the novel says.
Such melting will not occur by 2075, but we allow far greater
distortions of science for a good story.
Akkad is not principally an SF writer.

Warm water rises.

Water over 4C does expand with heat, but very little. Sea level rise in
the Cretaceous due to warmth was about 20m (I once calculated that and
was considering putting it in a paper when I discovered that it had been
done twenty years earlier ... at least we got the same answer).

Sea level rise due to thermal expansion is happening, but I would be
surprised if the warming by 2075 added as much as a meter in this way,
even in the extreme scenario of the book. And this is in the noise
given other uncertainties.

In the case of a return-to-Cretaceous scenario twenty meters could be
added, but there would be a lag of some thousands of years before the
warmer temperatures affected the deep ocean.

Plausibility is nice, but not required for a good story. "The Great
Nebraska Sea" is totally implausible but enjoyable.

William Hyde

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by William Hyde
In the case of a return-to-Cretaceous scenario twenty meters could be
added, but there would be a lag of some thousands of years before the
warmer temperatures affected the deep ocean.
Plausibility is nice, but not required for a good story. "The Great
Nebraska Sea" is totally implausible but enjoyable.

I still like the notion of Pittsburgh as a major seaport.
--scott

[Charles Packer]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I read this in May of 2017
"American War"- set in a future of Global Warming and post American
Civil War II. No Florida and the Southern Coast is depleted.

I see this was published in April 2017. That was in the first
months of the Trump administration when the chattering classes
decided that the world would indeed come to an end unless
Angela Merkel could save it.