Relevant - Plate Tectonics Might Only Occur on 0.003% of Planets. That Makes Earth Very Special Indeed.

[a425couple]

Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!

from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/

Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

Plate Tectonics Might Only Occur on 0.003% of Planets. That Makes Earth
Very Special Indeed.
Plate tectonics, oceans, and continents might just be the secret
ingredients for complex life on Earth. And if these geological features
are rare elsewhere in the universe, then perhaps that explains why we
haven’t yet discovered intelligent alien life. New research from
American and Swiss Earth scientists suggests that these ingredients
represent missing variables in the famous Drake equation, devised more
than half a century ago to estimate the chances of finding advanced
civilizations in our galaxy. Including these new variables could
completely rewrite the probability of detecting intelligent life in the
Milky Way.

Go to the citation for the rest ----.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON
Plate Tectonics Might Only Occur on 0.003% of Planets. That Makes Earth
Very Special Indeed.
Plate tectonics, oceans, and continents might just be the secret
ingredients for complex life on Earth. And if these geological features
are rare elsewhere in the universe, then perhaps that explains why we
haven’t yet discovered intelligent alien life. New research from
American and Swiss Earth scientists suggests that these ingredients
represent missing variables in the famous Drake equation, devised more
than half a century ago to estimate the chances of finding advanced
civilizations in our galaxy. Including these new variables could
completely rewrite the probability of detecting intelligent life in the
Milky Way.
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

[a425couple]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions. If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Venus, Mars, and Mercury suggest otherwise.

My impression is that the existance of a (relatively shallow)
water ocean is critical. There's also a suggestion that a major
meteor impact may have been involved in starting the process.

pt

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Venus, Mars, and Mercury suggest otherwise.

I believe Mars and Mercury's cores have solidified. Venus has ... other
issues but does have active vulcanism. And considering how many it has
may make up for the locked crustal plates.

Post by Cryptoengineer
My impression is that the existance of a (relatively shallow)
water ocean is critical. There's also a suggestion that a major
meteor impact may have been involved in starting the process.

Theia was a bit more than a meteor and yes, liquefying the entire planet
a second time might have an effect.

[Michael F. Stemper]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by a425couple

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate tectonics.

Venus, Mars, and Mercury suggest otherwise.

I believe Mars and Mercury's cores have solidified.

I thought that, as well. It appears that, for Mars at least, that's an
obsolete idea:
<https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mars-has-a-surprise-layer-of-molten-rock-inside/>

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have
a rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Venus, Mars, and Mercury suggest otherwise.

I believe Mars and Mercury's cores have solidified.  Venus has ... other
issues but does have active vulcanism.  And considering how many it has
may make up for the locked crustal plates.

If you trust wikipedia, all 3 that liquid cores. I was a little
suprised myself.

Post by Cryptoengineer
My impression is that the existance of a (relatively shallow)
water ocean is critical. There's also a suggestion that a major
meteor impact may have been involved in starting the process.

Theia was a bit more than a meteor and yes, liquefying the entire planet
a second time might have an effect.

Wasn't thinking of Theia, but something much later, which still make a
big enough hole in the early crust that subduction got kickstarted, then
spread.

pt

[a425couple]

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

resending----

Ahhh,,,, ??
I do not know about that. Needs to get more detailed.
Take Mars, the closest and most explored example.
It has pretty much lost internal movement,
thus magnetic waves that protect it from
solar waves, and the solar wind has wiped off
most atmosphere, and water.

Question Does Mars have plate tectonics?

Mars, it seems, once had active tectonic plates spreading away from
long, narrow volcanic rifts, according to two reports in tomorrow's
Science (pp.
https://www.science.org › content › article › past-tecton...
Past Tectonics on Mars? | Science | AAAS

Why doesn't Mars have plate tectonics?
Shaping the Planets: Tectonism
Like Earth, Venus and Mars are believed to have hot interiors. This
means that they are continuing to lose heat. While their surfaces show
evidence of recent deformation — tectonism — neither planet has plate
tectonic activity because neither planet has a surface divided into plates.

Shaping the Planets: Tectonism - Lunar and Planetary Institute
Lunar and Planetary Institute

What planets have plate tectonics?

Why Earth is the only planet with plate tectonics - Big Think
Here in our Solar System, of all the known planets, only Earth — not
Mercury, not Venus, and not Mars — is known to possess plate
tectonics.Mar 27, 2023

How Mars Lost Its Magnetic Field—and Then Its Oceans - JSTOR Daily
JSTOR Daily
https://daily.jstor.org › how-mars-lost-its-magnetic-field-...
Search for: Why did Mars lose its magnetic field?

[Kualinar]

Post by a425couple

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

resending----
Ahhh,,,, ??
I do not know about that.  Needs to get more detailed.
Take Mars, the closest and most explored example.
It has pretty much lost internal movement,
thus magnetic waves that protect it from
solar waves, and the solar wind has wiped off
most atmosphere, and water.
Question Does Mars have plate tectonics?
Mars, it seems, once had active tectonic plates spreading away from
long, narrow volcanic rifts, according to two reports in tomorrow's
Science (pp.
https://www.science.org › content › article › past-tecton...
Past Tectonics on Mars? | Science | AAAS
Why doesn't Mars have plate tectonics?
Shaping the Planets: Tectonism
Like Earth, Venus and Mars are believed to have hot interiors. This
means that they are continuing to lose heat. While their surfaces show
evidence of recent deformation — tectonism — neither planet has plate
tectonic activity because neither planet has a surface divided into plates.
Shaping the Planets: Tectonism - Lunar and Planetary Institute
Lunar and Planetary Institute
What planets have plate tectonics?
Why Earth is the only planet with plate tectonics - Big Think
Here in our Solar System, of all the known planets, only Earth — not
Mercury, not Venus, and not Mars — is known to possess plate
tectonics.Mar 27, 2023
How Mars Lost Its Magnetic Field—and Then Its Oceans - JSTOR Daily
JSTOR Daily
https://daily.jstor.org › how-mars-lost-its-magnetic-field-...
Search for: Why did Mars lose its magnetic field?

Mars have about the same average density as the Earth, BUT, the radius
of Mars is about 0.6 Earth radius.
That mean about 0.216 Earth mass and about 0.36 of the surface. This
resulted in a much faster cooling. It should be noted that the initial
temperature of the inside of Mars was probably lower as it accumulated
less energy during it's accretion. That also mean a lot less heat from
nuclear decay. So, it's interior cooled, causing the core to become
thick, thus stopping the magnetic field generating process.
The loss of it's magnetic field only accelerated the loss of it's
atmosphere. Remember that the Martian escape velocity is about a third
of Earth's escape velocity. That alone mean loosing it's atmosphere.

For Earth, we now have reasons to think that plate tectonics got
initiated by the collision that formed the Moon. Then, the tidal pull
from the Moon may have helped kipping it running.
Venus seems to never experience such a collision, so, nothing to kick
start it's plate tectonics. The Venusian crust it possibly thinner than
Earth's crust, as the insulation provided by it's very thick atmosphere
must slow down it's cooling.

There is a model where Mercury would be the core of an Uranus like
planet that evaporated due to it's proximity to the Sun.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Neither Mercury, Venus, nor Mars have plate tectonics. That's 3/4
of the rocky planets with a liquid core/mantel, that we know about.

pt

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Neither Mercury, Venus, nor Mars have plate tectonics. That's 3/4
of the rocky planets with a liquid core/mantel, that we know about.

Bizzare. Thunderbird (or Eternal-September) is messing up. I didn't mean
to duplicate the post, but I put up the same info yesterday, but didn't
see it the first time I opened TB today, so reposted.

pt

[Paul S Person]

On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 13:37:04 -0400, Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by a425couple

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON

-----------snip-------

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by a425couple
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

I went to the citation but couldn't find if that 0.003% is of ALL
exo-planets or just the Terrestrial/Super-Terrestrial types.

"the rest" of the citation, did not give a lot of specific information.
Hopefully we will see a lot more on this research in the future.

I also think there's a flaw in their basic assumptions.  If you have a
rocky planet with a liquid core/mantle, you are going to have plate
tectonics.

Neither Mercury, Venus, nor Mars have plate tectonics. That's 3/4
of the rocky planets with a liquid core/mantel, that we know about.

Bizzare. Thunderbird (or Eternal-September) is messing up. I didn't mean
to duplicate the post, but I put up the same info yesterday, but didn't
see it the first time I opened TB today, so reposted.

I don't seem to have that problem with Agent 8 and Eternal September,
so perhaps Thunderbird needs investigation.

[John Savard]

I remember back in the day it being claimed that Earth's very unique
giant Moon may have been essential for the development of life on
Earth along the lines it took.

So this claim about plate tectonics reminds me of that.

But I don't see this as bad news, if it were true. It would just mean
that we don't life in the kind of claustrophobically overcrowded
Univese that we see on the TV show Star Trek, and I would be glad of
that.

By building O'Neill-type space habitats, or through terraforming, we
could still establish a human presence on star systems which have
rocky planets, even though those planets are all lifeless and don't
have breathable atmospheres. It's to the better that, if we gain the
ability to travel among the stars, that we won't find that every place
to which we might expand is already taken... and to the better that we
aren't going to be conquered, enslaved, or destroyed by vastly
superior aliens as soon as we start to get ourselves noticed.

Which TV and FM radio might already have done.

John Savard

[a425couple]

Post by John Savard
I remember back in the day it being claimed that Earth's very unique
giant Moon may have been essential for the development of life on
Earth along the lines it took.
So this claim about plate tectonics reminds me of that.

OK
Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe
Paperback – December 10, 2003
by Peter D. Ward (Author), Donald Brownlee

both the book, and the wiki, you can see more at
https://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth:_Why_Complex_Life_Is_Uncommon_in_the_Universe

is a very informative and important book on the subject.
Yes, the Moon, and plate tectonics are very important,
as are a big complex of other factors like Jupiter,
Goldilocks Zone, the right kind of star, etc.

Post by John Savard
But I don't see this as bad news, if it were true.

OK.
I am not sure that your "superior aliens" are necessarily
bad, but yeah, they might not be good for us.

You might look up earlier mentioned book "Saturn Run".

[John Savard]

Post by a425couple

Post by John Savard
I remember back in the day it being claimed that Earth's very unique
giant Moon may have been essential for the development of life on
Earth along the lines it took.
So this claim about plate tectonics reminds me of that.

OK
Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe
Paperback – December 10, 2003
by Peter D. Ward (Author), Donald Brownlee
both the book, and the wiki, you can see more at
https://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth:_Why_Complex_Life_Is_Uncommon_in_the_Universe
is a very informative and important book on the subject.
Yes, the Moon, and plate tectonics are very important,
as are a big complex of other factors like Jupiter,
Goldilocks Zone, the right kind of star, etc.

Post by John Savard
But I don't see this as bad news, if it were true.

OK.
I am not sure that your "superior aliens" are necessarily
bad, but yeah, they might not be good for us.
You might look up earlier mentioned book "Saturn Run".

Ah, yes. Rare Earth brings in another factor: there may be a habitable
zone in galazies, with those systems further out not having enough
asteroids to shake things up and speed up evolution, and those in the
center of the galaxy being so metal rich as to have constant asteroid
impacts.

And I agree with Arthur C. Clarke, that advanced aliens are more
likely to be benificent. However, in a crowded Universe, there would
be so many races that some might be exceptions to that rule.

John Savard

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2024 15:20:26 -0600, John Savard

Post by John Savard
And I agree with Arthur C. Clarke, that advanced aliens are more
likely to be benificent.

According to *their* ideas of beneficent.

[Robert Woodward]

Post by Joy Beeson
On Fri, 05 Jul 2024 15:20:26 -0600, John Savard

Post by John Savard
And I agree with Arthur C. Clarke, that advanced aliens are more
likely to be benificent.

According to *their* ideas of beneficent.

A quote from _The Termopylae Protocol_ by Weber and Holo:

"... you and I were both historians. When's the last time large-scale
contact between two societies--one significantly less advanced than the
other--ended well for the little guys?"
"Um..."
"Yeah. My point exactly."

[Paul S Person]

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON
Plate Tectonics Might Only Occur on 0.003% of Planets. That Makes Earth
Very Special Indeed.
Plate tectonics, oceans, and continents might just be the secret
ingredients for complex life on Earth. And if these geological features
are rare elsewhere in the universe, then perhaps that explains why we
haven’t yet discovered intelligent alien life. New research from
American and Swiss Earth scientists suggests that these ingredients
represent missing variables in the famous Drake equation, devised more
than half a century ago to estimate the chances of finding advanced
civilizations in our galaxy. Including these new variables could
completely rewrite the probability of detecting intelligent life in the
Milky Way.
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

Note the sequence here:

1. Certain people believe -- firmly, passionately, and religiously
believe -- that We Are Not Alone. This /must/ be true, they say, it
just /must/ be true.
2. The problem is, no actual evidence of this has been found.
3. Indeed, no actual evidence is likely to be found until we /go out
into the universe and see/.
4. Since the radio frequencies /we have decided/ are the ones that
would be used to communicate with us are silent, they are desperate
for excuses. They, of course, call them "explanations".
5. Lack of Plate Tectonics is simply the latest excuse.

What I /wouldn't/ find if I bothered to read the article:
a detailed discussion of, say, 500 planets (or even of 1 extrasolar
planet) which we have travelled to and investigated thoroughly and how
many of them had plate tectonics, a large natural satellite, an
absence of Dark Matter, archaeological evidence of past (and now gone)
Alien Civilizations, or any of the other excuses that have been
offered.

I wouldn't find that because the only planets we have visited are in
our own Solar System -- and, even so, we haven't actually explored
them enough to know for certain that a past civilization did not
exist. All we can say is that /by the criteria we decided on
ourselves, which may or may not be adequate/ there isn't any life on
any of them. At least, not any that we have found to date.

[John Savard]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2024 08:18:09 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
1. Certain people believe -- firmly, passionately, and religiously
believe -- that We Are Not Alone. This /must/ be true, they say, it
just /must/ be true.

That's not _too_ unreasonable a belief. After all, _we_ exist.
Therefore, it is possible for intelligent life to evolve, it is
possible for life to originate on a planet.

So, if this is possible to happen naturally here, it's possible
elsewhere.

And the Universe is a very big place.

It's just that we have no way to know just _how_ "not alone" we are.
Are there hundreds of civilizations in the typical galaxy... or is our
civilization the only one, not only in this galaxy, but also for
hundreds of galaxies?

And in the latter case, if it's also true that faster-than-light
travel is utterly impossible... first contact may be a long way off.

John Savard

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 05 Jul 2024 15:33:40 -0600, John Savard

Post by John Savard
On Fri, 05 Jul 2024 08:18:09 -0700, Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
1. Certain people believe -- firmly, passionately, and religiously
believe -- that We Are Not Alone. This /must/ be true, they say, it
just /must/ be true.

That's not _too_ unreasonable a belief. After all, _we_ exist.
Therefore, it is possible for intelligent life to evolve, it is
possible for life to originate on a planet.

Life exists. Whether any of it deserves to be called "intelligent" is
a different question.

It is an assumption (OK, an hypothesis) that life originated on a
planet. That two different theories of what the initial conditions on
Earth were have been tested and shown to produce amino acids (or
whatever) shows only that it is possible to produce a theory that can
survive a laboratory test. That the initial conditions can be
different and the result the same suggests that we have no real idea
of what is needed at all.

Post by John Savard
So, if this is possible to happen naturally here, it's possible
elsewhere.
And the Universe is a very big place.
It's just that we have no way to know just _how_ "not alone" we are.
Are there hundreds of civilizations in the typical galaxy... or is our
civilization the only one, not only in this galaxy, but also for
hundreds of galaxies?
And in the latter case, if it's also true that faster-than-light
travel is utterly impossible... first contact may be a long way off.

Actual first contact is a long way off even if our own galaxy is
packed with space aliens. That's why we've cleverly decided which
radio frequency they are using to try to advise us of their presence.
Too bad nobody's using it.

[Titus G]

Much snippage.

Post by Paul S Person
1. Certain people believe -- firmly, passionately, and religiously
believe -- that We Are Not Alone. This /must/ be true, they say, it
just /must/ be true.

You seem to be implying that all such people are nutters but my general
understanding is that many credible believers do so because of
statistics, the incomprehensible, to me, number of planets possible.
Restricting that to a further three in a thousand will not change that
belief.

Adam Roberts addresses and solves the Fermi Paradox in the final part of
Jack Glass.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Titus G
Much snippage.

Post by Paul S Person
1. Certain people believe -- firmly, passionately, and religiously
believe -- that We Are Not Alone. This /must/ be true, they say, it
just /must/ be true.

You seem to be implying that all such people are nutters but my general
understanding is that many credible believers do so because of
statistics, the incomprehensible, to me, number of planets possible.
Restricting that to a further three in a thousand will not change that
belief.

They /are/ nutters. They literally have no idea at all what they are
talking about. It is all smoke and mirrors.

I once sparked a never-ending thread "Jesus Holds the Atoms Together"
on another newsgroup while working my way through an early "proof"
that we only exist because a certain set of constants have the values
they have by observing that a term denoting "probability that
universes in which the values would not allow life but life
nonetheless exists" appeared in a /denominator/. Since the value of
that should be "0", this blew up the entire argument (the value of the
term it was in was now "undefined" since that is what division by 0
gets you, and so everything it was connected to was also "undefined").
The thread explored the theory that such universes /do/ exist and we
are in one. We exist (the theory continued) because God Himself forces
each and every one of the constants into a value (and a set of values
collectively) that allows life to exist.

Nutters are nutters. They are everywhere. Most of them are quite
harmless. Many are a having lot of fun. Some are not.

We now have nutters that support terrorism and hate Jews on /both/
ends of the political spectrum. Those are not harmless.

But nutters desperately looking for reasons why, in a Universe
allegedly teeming with life, we hare having such a hard time finding
it, are harmless.

Post by Titus G
Adam Roberts addresses and solves the Fermi Paradox in the final part of
Jack Glass.

[a425couple]

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/

Or, in summary

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe
or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”
― Arthur C. Clarke

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by a425couple
Big DEAL !!
So many times greats like Heinlein and Silverberg have written
about us going to exoplanets, and it being like Earth.
Sorry,,,, NO!
from
https://www.universetoday.com/167659/plate-tectonics-might-only-occur-on-0-003-of-planets-that-makes-earth-very-special-indeed/
Plate tectonics: Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Scientific Visualization Studio
POSTED ONJULY 2, 2024 BY SCOTT ALAN JOHNSTON
Plate Tectonics Might Only Occur on 0.003% of Planets. That Makes Earth
Very Special Indeed.
Plate tectonics, oceans, and continents might just be the secret
ingredients for complex life on Earth. And if these geological features
are rare elsewhere in the universe, then perhaps that explains why we
haven’t yet discovered intelligent alien life. New research from
American and Swiss Earth scientists suggests that these ingredients
represent missing variables in the famous Drake equation, devised more
than half a century ago to estimate the chances of finding advanced
civilizations in our galaxy. Including these new variables could
completely rewrite the probability of detecting intelligent life in the
Milky Way.
Go to the citation for the rest ----.

Life is likely everywhere liquid water is found but it won't
be necessarily intelligent or complex. Remember that a Mars-sized
planet had to hit the earth to create the Moon. When it did that
it may have kicked up the abyssal ancient prokaryotic cells which
on finding themselves in a very strange environment formed the
bacterial mats which led to the first great extinction by producing oxygen.
Without the higher biological energies produced and enabled
by the presence of Oxygen we might not have gotten far enough to
spoil it with tailpipe emissions.
Not to mention the presence of the Moon which with its tides
may have given rise to life on land.
I think PBS has one show or series entitled "Disaster Planet"
and without disasters we might not have grown, an overly large perhaps,
brain.

bliss