ongoing infrastructure changes with AI in the USA

[Lynn McGuire]

I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.

The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

Each AI server idles at 5,000 watts and uses 15,000 watts at full
compute level.
15,000 watts x 1,000,000 = 15,000,000,000 watts = 15,000 MW = 15 GW
Current peak usage in Texas is 85,000 MW = 85 GW.

Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially since
we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

”Biden administration sets plan to triple US nuclear energy capacity by
2050″

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/biden-administration-plan-to-triple-us-nuclear-energy-capacity-by-2050/732807/
“The road map aims for 200 GW of net new capacity from newly built
reactors, restarts of plants retired for economic reasons and power
uprates of existing reactors, the White House said Tuesday.”

BTW, one of the Bitcoin miners bought a gas turbine power plant last
year in central Texas and is using that power for their Bitcoin mining
machines, onsite. They are adding a few more gas turbines posthaste.
They are saving five cents/kwh in transmission and distribution fees by
colocating the power generation gas turbines and the mining machines.

I do not have good numbers for the electric vehicle changes to the
electric grids in the USA yet. That number may be 10X this number if
the 18 wheelers and locomotives are converted to electricity.

Lynn

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.

Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

I suggest two reasons why defining "AI server" precisely is not
feasible:

1. Nobody knows -- an AI Server is whatever the makers make it be.

2. The tech will change, so, even if a "precise definition" existed
today, next week it might well be outmoded.

Bit-coin mining is meeting with opposition from local communities with
stressed electric systems. AI Servers will as well, I expect.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Lurndal

I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI=20
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a=20
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 =

US.

Post by Scott Lurndal

1,000,000 x $500,000 =3D $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

I suggest two reasons why defining "AI server" precisely is not
1. Nobody knows -- an AI Server is whatever the makers make it be.
2. The tech will change, so, even if a "precise definition" existed
today, next week it might well be outmoded.

Machine Learning (which is the proper term, "AI" is just marketing fluff)
has two components:

- Feeding the model data (Training)
- Applying the model (Inference)

The former is computationally intensive (and thus requires massive
amounts of energy). The later uses the data produced from the training
activity and is much less energy intensive.

Post by Paul S Person
Bit-coin mining is meeting with opposition from local communities with
stressed electric systems. AI Servers will as well, I expect.

Bitcoin is a complete waste of energy.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Scott Lurndal

I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI=20
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a=20
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 =

US.

Post by Scott Lurndal

1,000,000 x $500,000 =3D $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

I suggest two reasons why defining "AI server" precisely is not
1. Nobody knows -- an AI Server is whatever the makers make it be.
2. The tech will change, so, even if a "precise definition" existed
today, next week it might well be outmoded.

Machine Learning (which is the proper term, "AI" is just marketing fluff)
- Feeding the model data (Training)
- Applying the model (Inference)
The former is computationally intensive (and thus requires massive
amounts of energy). The later uses the data produced from the training
activity and is much less energy intensive.

Post by Paul S Person
Bit-coin mining is meeting with opposition from local communities with
stressed electric systems. AI Servers will as well, I expect.

Bitcoin is a complete waste of energy.

While AI is ... amusing?

[D]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data?  Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

1. A huge rackmount frame the size of a refrigerator
2. Two Intel Zeons with 64 or 128 cpus each
3. Many terabytes of ram in 20 to 40 memory slots
4. 10 to 40 SSD hard drives of 1 TB to 8 TB
5. four to twelve Nvidea H100 or H200 boards
6. multiple power supplies
7. etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc

In other words, it looks like a 1980s / 1990s mini computer in a rack
configuration with many swapable / upgradable modules.

Here is just one variant:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/dt/servers/specialty-servers/poweredge-xe-servers.htm#scroll=off&tab0=0&accordion0

Lynn

[D]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data?  Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

1. A huge rackmount frame the size of a refrigerator
2. Two Intel Zeons with 64 or 128 cpus each
3. Many terabytes of ram in 20 to 40 memory slots
4. 10 to 40 SSD hard drives of 1 TB to 8 TB
5. four to twelve Nvidea H100 or H200 boards
6. multiple power supplies
7. etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
In other words, it looks like a 1980s / 1990s mini computer in a rack
configuration with many swapable / upgradable modules.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/dt/servers/specialty-servers/poweredge-xe-servers.htm#scroll=off&tab0=0&accordion0
Lynn

Just what I would have expected! It will be fun if there's another
AI-winter. Then we'll be eating GPU:s for breakfast given all the
oversupply that will exist! When do you think disillusionment will set in
(if at all)?

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data?  Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

1. A huge rackmount frame the size of a refrigerator
2. Two Intel Zeons with 64 or 128 cpus each
3. Many terabytes of ram in 20 to 40 memory slots
4. 10 to 40 SSD hard drives of 1 TB to 8 TB
5. four to twelve Nvidea H100 or H200 boards
6. multiple power supplies
7. etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
In other words, it looks like a 1980s / 1990s mini computer in a rack
configuration with many swapable / upgradable modules.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/dt/servers/specialty-servers/poweredge-xe-
servers.htm#scroll=off&tab0=0&accordion0
Lynn

Just what I would have expected! It will be fun if there's another AI-
winter. Then we'll be eating GPU:s for breakfast given all the
oversupply that will exist! When do you think disillusionment will set
in (if at all)?

The AI disillusionment will start when the companies try to layoff their
customer support departments and find out that they cannot do so.

Lynn

[D]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data?  Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

1. A huge rackmount frame the size of a refrigerator
2. Two Intel Zeons with 64 or 128 cpus each
3. Many terabytes of ram in 20 to 40 memory slots
4. 10 to 40 SSD hard drives of 1 TB to 8 TB
5. four to twelve Nvidea H100 or H200 boards
6. multiple power supplies
7. etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
In other words, it looks like a 1980s / 1990s mini computer in a rack
configuration with many swapable / upgradable modules.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/dt/servers/specialty-servers/poweredge-xe-
servers.htm#scroll=off&tab0=0&accordion0
Lynn

Just what I would have expected! It will be fun if there's another AI-
winter. Then we'll be eating GPU:s for breakfast given all the oversupply
that will exist! When do you think disillusionment will set in (if at all)?

The AI disillusionment will start when the companies try to layoff their
customer support departments and find out that they cannot do so.
Lynn

Let us study the example of Klarna with great interest! I think they did
exactly that. Instead of having people answering questions about loans and
credit, they will let the LLM:s do it and I then assume have a vastly
smaller teams of humans catching the hallucinations and edge cases.

[Paul S Person]

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by D

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data?  Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

1. A huge rackmount frame the size of a refrigerator
2. Two Intel Zeons with 64 or 128 cpus each
3. Many terabytes of ram in 20 to 40 memory slots
4. 10 to 40 SSD hard drives of 1 TB to 8 TB
5. four to twelve Nvidea H100 or H200 boards
6. multiple power supplies
7. etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
In other words, it looks like a 1980s / 1990s mini computer in a rack
configuration with many swapable / upgradable modules.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/dt/servers/specialty-servers/poweredge-xe-
servers.htm#scroll=off&tab0=0&accordion0
Lynn

Just what I would have expected! It will be fun if there's another AI-
winter. Then we'll be eating GPU:s for breakfast given all the oversupply
that will exist! When do you think disillusionment will set in (if at all)?

The AI disillusionment will start when the companies try to layoff their
customer support departments and find out that they cannot do so.
Lynn

Let us study the example of Klarna with great interest! I think they did
exactly that. Instead of having people answering questions about loans and
credit, they will let the LLM:s do it and I then assume have a vastly
smaller teams of humans catching the hallucinations and edge cases.

Most of the companies I have had to try to deal with over the past few
years are heavily protected by automated telephone/online chat trees
which /never/ get you to an actual person. The closest one came was to
offer me the option of using my phone to chat with one. Sadly, my
phone doesn't do that; it's very primitive.

IOW, they only want to hear about the problems they can imagine you
might have and so have solutions for. Anything else is of no interest
to them.

[Gary R. Schmidt]

On 17/11/2024 04:02, Paul S Person wrote:
[SNIP]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
Most of the companies I have had to try to deal with over the past few

years are heavily protected by automated telephone/online chat trees
which /never/ get you to an actual person. The closest one came was to
offer me the option of using my phone to chat with one. Sadly, my
phone doesn't do that; it's very primitive.
IOW, they only want to hear about the problems they can imagine you
might have and so have solutions for. Anything else is of no interest
to them.

Many - I can't say most - of the voice-(non-)response systems can be
forced to pass you to a human if you keep saying, "I want to speak to a
human", or, "I need to speak to a person", repeatedly.

That's my general goto when I get stuck in a vast maze of twisty
passages, all alike.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:09:54 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
Most of the companies I have had to try to deal with over the past few

years are heavily protected by automated telephone/online chat trees
which /never/ get you to an actual person. The closest one came was to
offer me the option of using my phone to chat with one. Sadly, my
phone doesn't do that; it's very primitive.
IOW, they only want to hear about the problems they can imagine you
might have and so have solutions for. Anything else is of no interest
to them.

Many - I can't say most - of the voice-(non-)response systems can be
forced to pass you to a human if you keep saying, "I want to speak to a
human", or, "I need to speak to a person", repeatedly.
That's my general goto when I get stuck in a vast maze of twisty
passages, all alike.

That's been my experience in the past.

But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

OTOH, when my DSL died my former ISP had people available. I may have
managed to mess things up a bit, but they helped me un-mess them so
things worked out fine (kept my emails, dropped them as an ISP). But
they may be smaller than the company I am describing.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:09:54 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"

Post by Gary R. Schmidt
[SNIP]

Post by Paul S Person

Post by Paul S Person
Most of the companies I have had to try to deal with over the past few

years are heavily protected by automated telephone/online chat trees
which /never/ get you to an actual person. The closest one came was to
offer me the option of using my phone to chat with one. Sadly, my
phone doesn't do that; it's very primitive.
IOW, they only want to hear about the problems they can imagine you
might have and so have solutions for. Anything else is of no interest
to them.

Many - I can't say most - of the voice-(non-)response systems can be
forced to pass you to a human if you keep saying, "I want to speak to a
human", or, "I need to speak to a person", repeatedly.
That's my general goto when I get stuck in a vast maze of twisty
passages, all alike.

That's been my experience in the past.
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.
OTOH, when my DSL died my former ISP had people available. I may have
managed to mess things up a bit, but they helped me un-mess them so
things worked out fine (kept my emails, dropped them as an ISP). But
they may be smaller than the company I am describing.

You might want to try https://gethuman.com/ ,
which gives instructions on getting to a person
at many companies.

pt

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

[Paul S Person]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it
worked quite well once I figured out that:
-- the first response was always boilerplate based on a keyword
-- but responding to it pointing out what the issue /really/ was
usually worked
-- note that "worked" often involved referring my inquiry to a more
technical department than customer service

It must be understood that, before I emailed them, /all/ the obvious
steps had been taken, including those documented on their own website.
So the boilerplate was generally irrelevant and referrals to more
technical departments were common.

But that didn't work as well with chat, perhaps because both sides
felt pressured to respond and so did not think things out as well as
the slower pace of email allowed.

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
you send email to ***@txt.att.net (substituting my number of
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

But each carrier has it's own @ address.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

Have you tried it recently? Didn't work for me.

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

Have you tried it recently? Didn't work for me.

Yes, just before I posted. Both to the text and reply back to email worked.

[Paul S Person]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:54:28 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

Have you tried it recently? Didn't work for me.

Yes, just before I posted. Both to the text and reply back to email worked.

I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone
number to the carrier and so to the @ address?

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:54:28 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

Have you tried it recently? Didn't work for me.

Yes, just before I posted. Both to the text and reply back to email worked.

I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

I just checked https://www.whitepages.com/ and the reverse number lookup
did give my carrier. Whether this can be blocked by a business I don't know.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:54:28 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:16:12 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Paul S Person
But the last time I tried it, all I got was a number I was graciously
allowed to send text messages to. Of course, if you happen to have a
phone that can send text messages, that's just as good in that you may
find yourself working with a human being. Unless it just leads you to
the chat tree used online, of course.

You can use email to text but you'd have to send to each of the carriers
interface addresses.

Email disappeared as an option decades ago. Which is too bad, it

I was talking about an email to text message interface. For example if
course) it will arrive on my phone as a text. My reply will go back to
your email.

Have you tried it recently? Didn't work for me.

Yes, just before I posted. Both to the text and reply back to email worked.

I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

pt

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier. I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.

Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup. These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally. (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)

Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.

-GAWollman

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier. I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.
Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup. These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally. (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)
Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.
-GAWollman

As I said in the other message, https://www.whitepages.com/ and the
reverse number lookup did give my carrier. I have not moved carriers in
over 20 years though so someone who has would have to verify that it
still gives the right carrier.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier.  I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.
Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup.  These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally.  (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)
Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.
-GAWollman

As I said in the other message, https://www.whitepages.com/ and the
reverse number lookup did give my carrier. I have not moved carriers in
over 20 years though so someone who has would have to verify that it
still gives the right carrier.

Interesting, thanks!

pt

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier.  I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.
Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup.  These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally.  (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)
Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.
-GAWollman

As I said in the other message, https://www.whitepages.com/ and the
reverse number lookup did give my carrier. I have not moved carriers in
over 20 years though so someone who has would have to verify that it
still gives the right carrier.

Interesting, thanks!
pt

https://xkcd.com/1129/

[Jay E. Morris]

Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier.  I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.
Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup.  These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally.  (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)
Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.
-GAWollman

As I said in the other message, https://www.whitepages.com/ and the
reverse number lookup did give my carrier. I have not moved carriers in
over 20 years though so someone who has would have to verify that it
still gives the right carrier.

Interesting, thanks!
pt

https://xkcd.com/1129/

I moved to Texas to Florida in 1996, the year before (partial)
portability started. Would have liked to keep my space coast number.

[Paul S Person]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 17:01:31 -0600, "Jay E. Morris"

Post by Jay E. Morris

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Cryptoengineer

Post by Paul S Person
I don't suppose there is an easy way to relate a given cell phone

No, there isn't. US phone numbers have been movable between carriers
for decades. I did it myself.

There is a national database -- obviously, because the incoming calls
have to get routed to the right carrier. I seem to have misplaced the
name of this database; it's operated under an FCC contract by an
organization called the Number Portability Administration Center.
Every phone call and SMS message requires a lookup in this database.
Originally, calls would be routed on the basis of the local exchange
carrier to which the NPA-NXX was assigned, and then numbers which had
been "ported out" would be kicked back to the originating carrier with
a "not our number" message to force a database lookup. These days,
it makes sense to just do the database dip unconditionally. (There's
caching in the carrier networks to minimize their database access
charges.)
Whether there's any way for normal people to get access to this
information I don't know.
-GAWollman

As I said in the other message, https://www.whitepages.com/ and the
reverse number lookup did give my carrier. I have not moved carriers in
over 20 years though so someone who has would have to verify that it
still gives the right carrier.

I have that link and the Number Portability Administration Center
recorded in a file aptly named "HardStuff.odt", but when or if I try
to use it remains to be seen. So TIA to both of you for the info.

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by D

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

My guess would be a server stuffed with GPU:s.

As someone who is currently involved with such things, while I'm not
at liberty to comment on pricing, a typical "state of the art" compute
node for a machine learning cluster might include:

- multiple CPUs with many cores each
- a lot of RAM
- a lot of very fast solid-state disk
- 8 H200 GPUs (also many cores each)
- 8 ports of 400G Infiniband
- 2 ports of 100G or 200G Ethernet
- about 30 kW in power supplies
- enough cooling (fans and/or liquid cooling systems) to dissipate 30
kW of waste heat

Because most ML work ("AI" or "training") happens on the GPUs, there
is typically only enough CPU to handle the I/O load. The Infiniband
is used exclusively for low-latency GPU-to-GPU communication across
the cluster; the regular ingress and egress happen over Ethernet.

While I can't comment on specific costs, I will say that the retail
cost is far higher than the BOM cost, and most of that profit stays in
the pockets of Nvidia.

-GAWollman

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any
of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Lynn

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any
of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Some of us actually produce ML hardware. The term AI is an marketing
gimic, not reality.

ML hardware ranges from custom logic in a desktop CPU to massively parallel
specialized hardware (e.g. plug-in GPUs). An ML-enabled server can
range from a simple ML accelerator block in the CPU itself (Apple,
Google, Amazon, Marvell) to a large, expensive, power-hungry GPU from Nvidia.

Yes, there are large racks of ML-enabled servers, particularly for
training. No, they're not really anything special other than using
high-end, high performance CPUs, GPUs and high-speed interconnects
(Infiniband, 100 and 400Gb ethernet). Basically no different
than any supercomputer in scale and power requirements.

[Paul S Person]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.

First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any
of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Some of us actually produce ML hardware. The term AI is an marketing
gimic, not reality.
ML hardware ranges from custom logic in a desktop CPU to massively parallel
specialized hardware (e.g. plug-in GPUs). An ML-enabled server can
range from a simple ML accelerator block in the CPU itself (Apple,
Google, Amazon, Marvell) to a large, expensive, power-hungry GPU from Nvidia.
Yes, there are large racks of ML-enabled servers, particularly for
training. No, they're not really anything special other than using
high-end, high performance CPUs, GPUs and high-speed interconnects
(Infiniband, 100 and 400Gb ethernet). Basically no different
than any supercomputer in scale and power requirements.

1 million of them will rather increase the power requirements,
possibly causing shortages.

I would say "perhaps Congress should pass a law allowing local power
systems to refuse to connect to these things" but, judging from the
last two years, Congress will be doing well to be sufficiently
organized by Jan 6 to do its duty to the country, never mind passing
any laws any time soon. Well, except a massive Tax Cut for 1%-ers, of
course.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000=

US.

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
1,000,000 x $500,000 =3D $500 billion US of capital.

=20
First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
=20
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any=

=20

Post by Scott Lurndal

of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end=20
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Some of us actually produce ML hardware. The term AI is an marketing
gimic, not reality.
ML hardware ranges from custom logic in a desktop CPU to massively =

parallel

Post by Scott Lurndal
specialized hardware (e.g. plug-in GPUs). An ML-enabled server can
range from a simple ML accelerator block in the CPU itself (Apple,
Google, Amazon, Marvell) to a large, expensive, power-hungry GPU from =

Nvidia.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Yes, there are large racks of ML-enabled servers, particularly for
training. No, they're not really anything special other than using
high-end, high performance CPUs, GPUs and high-speed interconnects
(Infiniband, 100 and 400Gb ethernet). Basically no different
than any supercomputer in scale and power requirements.

1 million of them will rather increase the power requirements,
possibly causing shortages.

It is unlikely that there will be anywhere near one million
ML training setups, which are the power-hungry setups.

ML Inference requires significantly less horsepower and will
be distributed over millions of laptop/desktop/table systems.

It's just as likely that the hype bubble will burst in the
next 18 months.

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000=

US.

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
1,000,000 x $500,000 =3D $500 billion US of capital.

=20
First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
=20
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any=

=20

Post by Scott Lurndal

of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end=20
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Some of us actually produce ML hardware. The term AI is an marketing
gimic, not reality.
ML hardware ranges from custom logic in a desktop CPU to massively =

parallel

Post by Scott Lurndal
specialized hardware (e.g. plug-in GPUs). An ML-enabled server can
range from a simple ML accelerator block in the CPU itself (Apple,
Google, Amazon, Marvell) to a large, expensive, power-hungry GPU from =

Nvidia.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Yes, there are large racks of ML-enabled servers, particularly for
training. No, they're not really anything special other than using
high-end, high performance CPUs, GPUs and high-speed interconnects
(Infiniband, 100 and 400Gb ethernet). Basically no different
than any supercomputer in scale and power requirements.

1 million of them will rather increase the power requirements,
possibly causing shortages.

It is unlikely that there will be anywhere near one million
ML training setups, which are the power-hungry setups.
ML Inference requires significantly less horsepower and will
be distributed over millions of laptop/desktop/table systems.
It's just as likely that the hype bubble will burst in the
next 18 months.

""Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." — Niels Bohr"

https://www.reddit.com/r/quotes/comments/10at8mq/prediction_is_very_difficult_especially_about_the/

BTW, my buddy who programs AI Servers at the big dumb company, agrees
with you. But they are selling hundreds of the huge AI servers each
month and are struggling to meet demand.

Lynn

[D]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers. I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG). The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000=

US.

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Lynn McGuire
1,000,000 x $500,000 =3D $500 billion US of capital.

=20
First, What is your source for this data? Be specific.
=20
Second, define precisely what an "AI server" is.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the AI Servers are not uniform in any=

=20

Post by Scott Lurndal

of their aspects. I just gave the specs for one of the high end=20
machines that the manufacturer has a three month waiting list for.

Some of us actually produce ML hardware. The term AI is an marketing
gimic, not reality.
ML hardware ranges from custom logic in a desktop CPU to massively =

parallel

Post by Scott Lurndal
specialized hardware (e.g. plug-in GPUs). An ML-enabled server can
range from a simple ML accelerator block in the CPU itself (Apple,
Google, Amazon, Marvell) to a large, expensive, power-hungry GPU from =

Nvidia.

Post by Scott Lurndal
Yes, there are large racks of ML-enabled servers, particularly for
training. No, they're not really anything special other than using
high-end, high performance CPUs, GPUs and high-speed interconnects
(Infiniband, 100 and 400Gb ethernet). Basically no different
than any supercomputer in scale and power requirements.

1 million of them will rather increase the power requirements,
possibly causing shortages.

It is unlikely that there will be anywhere near one million
ML training setups, which are the power-hungry setups.
ML Inference requires significantly less horsepower and will
be distributed over millions of laptop/desktop/table systems.
It's just as likely that the hype bubble will burst in the
next 18 months.

""Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." — Niels Bohr"
https://www.reddit.com/r/quotes/comments/10at8mq/prediction_is_very_difficult_especially_about_the/
BTW, my buddy who programs AI Servers at the big dumb company, agrees with
you. But they are selling hundreds of the huge AI servers each month and are
struggling to meet demand.
Lynn

I believe there is a bubble, Regular people are taking AI and buying
nvidia shares. I think no surer indication of bubbles can be found than
that.

On the other hand, that would also seem to indicate that perhaps there is
a lot of life left in the crypto space. I imagine that Trump will make it
mainstream, thereby inflating its value enormously. Will the regulated
crypto space be ready for 100s of millions of americans jumping onto the
crypto train simultaneously?

[Titus G]

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.
Each AI server idles at 5,000 watts and uses 15,000 watts at full
compute level.
   15,000 watts x 1,000,000 = 15,000,000,000 watts = 15,000 MW = 15 GW
Current peak usage in Texas is 85,000 MW = 85 GW.
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially since
we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

"So how is this pertinent to Science Fiction and Fantasy, aka
Speculative Fiction ?" Lynn
(AGW. LNG Worse Than Coal. October 2024)

I don't have a problem with your off topic posting because it usually
results in interesting discussion but wished to remind you of your
hypocrisy, (again).

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by Titus G

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
   1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.
Each AI server idles at 5,000 watts and uses 15,000 watts at full
compute level.
   15,000 watts x 1,000,000 = 15,000,000,000 watts = 15,000 MW = 15 GW
Current peak usage in Texas is 85,000 MW = 85 GW.
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially since
we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

"So how is this pertinent to Science Fiction and Fantasy, aka
Speculative Fiction ?" Lynn
(AGW. LNG Worse Than Coal. October 2024)
I don't have a problem with your off topic posting because it usually
results in interesting discussion but wished to remind you of your
hypocrisy, (again).

I figured that you were smart enough to figure that this posting had to
do with excess heat and climate change. Maybe all of the science
fiction stories about the Earth burning up due to excess heat might come
true.

Lynn

[Titus G]

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by Titus G

Post by Lynn McGuire
I am on the periphery of the ongoing blanketing of the USA with AI
servers.  I have a few facts that might just blow you away.
The expected number of AI servers in the USA alone is presently a
million (SWAG).  The current cost for a single AI server is $500,000 US.
    1,000,000 x $500,000 = $500 billion US of capital.
Each AI server idles at 5,000 watts and uses 15,000 watts at full
compute level.
    15,000 watts x 1,000,000 = 15,000,000,000 watts = 15,000 MW = 15 GW
Current peak usage in Texas is 85,000 MW = 85 GW.
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially since
we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

"So how is this pertinent to Science Fiction and Fantasy, aka
Speculative Fiction ?" Lynn
(AGW. LNG Worse Than Coal. October 2024)
I don't have a problem with your off topic posting because it usually
results in interesting discussion but wished to remind you of your
hypocrisy, (again).

I figured that you were smart enough to figure that this posting had to
do with excess heat and climate change.  Maybe all of the science
fiction stories about the Earth burning up due to excess heat might come
true.
Lynn

Your quoted complaint above related to a post about climate change whose
facts caused some cognitive dissonance for you, Dimwire. Maybe all of
the science fiction stories about the Earth burning up due to climate
change assisted by fracking methane might come true?

[William Hyde]

Post by Lynn McGuire
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially since
we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

As I understand it about 170 are due to be shut down between now and
2030. And given that delays in this field are not uncommon, I suspect
the actual number will be less.

Since we shut down our coal plants fifteen years ago, the number of
respiratory alerts in Toronto has gone from thirty per summer to one or
less.

That alone made it worth the cost.

William Hyde

[Lynn McGuire]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Lynn McGuire
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially
since we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

As I understand it about 170 are due to be shut down between now and
2030.  And given that delays in this field are not uncommon, I suspect
the actual number will be less.
Since we shut down our coal plants fifteen years ago, the number of
respiratory alerts in Toronto has gone from thirty per summer to one or
less.
That alone made it worth the cost.
William Hyde

Yeah, I should have put SWAG on that 100 per year number. The USA has
204 coal power plants left. About a dozen or so here in Texas. Nine of
the coal power plants I worked at in the 1980s have been shut down in
the last 15 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/

Good luck on getting China to shut down their 1,161 coal power plants.
They are adding a new coal power plant every week still in China (SWAG).

Bag houses on the exhaust gas would have stopped the flyash in the air
problem. Your old coal power plants probably just had electrostatic
precipitators, if that, which only get 80% of the flyash on a good day.
Bag houses are 98% effective but require more exhaust gas fans due to
their pressure drop (1/4 inch wall thickness woven metal bags).

Lynn

[William Hyde]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Lynn McGuire
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially
since we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

As I understand it about 170 are due to be shut down between now and
2030.  And given that delays in this field are not uncommon, I suspect
the actual number will be less.
Since we shut down our coal plants fifteen years ago, the number of
respiratory alerts in Toronto has gone from thirty per summer to one
or less.
That alone made it worth the cost.
William Hyde

Yeah, I should have put SWAG on that 100 per year number.  The USA has
204 coal power plants left.  About a dozen or so here in Texas.  Nine of
the coal power plants I worked at in the 1980s have been shut down in
the last 15 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/
Good luck on getting China to shut down their 1,161 coal power plants.
They are adding a new coal power plant every week still in China (SWAG).
Bag houses on the exhaust gas would have stopped the flyash in the air
problem.  Your old coal power plants

When I was in public school our class was taken on a trip to see this
same spanking new technological marvel of a power plant.

Scary.


William Hyde

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by William Hyde

Post by Lynn McGuire
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially
since we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

As I understand it about 170 are due to be shut down between now and
2030.  And given that delays in this field are not uncommon, I
suspect the actual number will be less.
Since we shut down our coal plants fifteen years ago, the number of
respiratory alerts in Toronto has gone from thirty per summer to one
or less.
That alone made it worth the cost.
William Hyde

Yeah, I should have put SWAG on that 100 per year number.  The USA has
204 coal power plants left.  About a dozen or so here in Texas.  Nine
of the coal power plants I worked at in the 1980s have been shut down
in the last 15 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-
plants-by-country/
Good luck on getting China to shut down their 1,161 coal power plants.
They are adding a new coal power plant every week still in China (SWAG).
Bag houses on the exhaust gas would have stopped the flyash in the air
problem.  Your old coal power plants

When I was in public school our class was taken on a trip to  see this
same spanking new technological marvel of a power plant.
Scary.
William Hyde

Well, when I was young my mother and step-father drove past PG&E
hydroelectric power plants in the foothills of Northern California
and to me they looked like fortresses of technology. I remember being
impressed.86 years later.

bliss

[Paul S Person]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 14:28:06 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Lynn McGuire

Post by William Hyde

Post by Lynn McGuire
Where is all of this electric power going to come from, especially
since we are shutting down 100+ coal power plants per year in the USA ?

As I understand it about 170 are due to be shut down between now and
2030.  And given that delays in this field are not uncommon, I suspect
the actual number will be less.
Since we shut down our coal plants fifteen years ago, the number of
respiratory alerts in Toronto has gone from thirty per summer to one or
less.
That alone made it worth the cost.
William Hyde

Yeah, I should have put SWAG on that 100 per year number. The USA has
204 coal power plants left. About a dozen or so here in Texas. Nine of
the coal power plants I worked at in the 1980s have been shut down in
the last 15 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/
Good luck on getting China to shut down their 1,161 coal power plants.
They are adding a new coal power plant every week still in China (SWAG).

But are they using bag houses?

Trying to keep them from not generating the power they need is
pointless; trying to get them to use modern tech may not be.

Post by Lynn McGuire
Bag houses on the exhaust gas would have stopped the flyash in the air
problem. Your old coal power plants probably just had electrostatic
precipitators, if that, which only get 80% of the flyash on a good day.
Bag houses are 98% effective but require more exhaust gas fans due to
their pressure drop (1/4 inch wall thickness woven metal bags).